women with adult children

[civi68]

Guys,
I recently returned a few weeks ago from Ukraine and had a great time with a woman I met there. I hit a road block with her. She is 42 and lives with her adult daughter, granddaughter, and daughter's husband. The husband has a professional job that doesn't pay well. I plan on visiting her again in a few months.
   You would think that a woman with an adult daughter would be a good situation for a guy as far as not having to worry about younger children to raise or bring here since the daughter is grown and married. However, this woman says that if she comes to America, we have to send $300 a month to help support her daughter. This woman wants to work if she comes here but her skills are limited so she will basically be a low wage worker. I have a good job but I feel it is unrealistic to send money home to her daughter every month. Has anyone else encountered this situation?

[Vincenzo]

It's a different culture. Ukrainians support each other.
$300 is not big money, and the woman wants to earn it herself.
It's not only for her daughter, it's for her granddaughter too.

You should also expect that she'll travel home each year.

[Misha]

However, this woman says that if she comes to America, we have to send $300 a month to help support her daughter.

Translation: YOU will have to send $300 a month to help support her daughter. Expect that she will eventually tell you that YOU will have to send money to support her parents and her grandchild....  I am fortunate in that my wife does not feel any need to send money to anybody and all her relatives are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves...

[Faux Pas]

civi68


Not really unreasonable when you look at it underneath. You didn't mention if the women you are seeing is working or not. Although it may not make much difference, if she leaves to be with you, likely you are taking money out of the household that they (may or may not) "need" to live on. In any event it will have an impact on the daughter/hubby and grand baby's lifestyle. Your woman's earning ability may be low but, it might be that that makes a big difference for her family each month.


Don't discount the importance of that. Chances are she isn't trying to milk you but she is looking out for her loved ones. Actually, could be a very positive sign. If the $300 per month is a deal breaker or bothers you, it would be best to move on.

[Vaughn]

If the $300 per month is a deal breaker or bothers you, it would be best to move on.

I was just thinking the same thing. In trying to understand civi68's point of view, I encountered this post from 26 October -

12. Be honest about your financial situation, particularly what it means for the
relationship if you have a mortgage, car payment, child support, etc. Many of
the women still think that their financial life will dramatically improve with
no worries about shopping. Think, they just don't want a roof over their head
but money for clothes, cosmetics, sending money home to family, yearly trips
back home, etc.

Now we are told he's "hit a road block" with her, clearly stating that

..... I have a good job but I feel it is unrealistic to send money home to her daughter every month.

civi68, could you clarify what I read as a contradiction?
 

 
 

[GoodOlBoy]

I feel it is unrealistic to send money home to her daughter every month.

VERY unrealistic.
Sounds like a deal breaker to me.
I definitely wouldn't do it.
 
GOB
 
PS.... Family emergencies are one thing, but this is a lifetime commitment of "child support" you are talking about here. 

[Vaughn]

Well, he doesn't feel it's unrealistic to make a second visit.
Maybe "inconvenient" would better describe the condition?
 

[GoodOlBoy]

Don't get me wrong here Vaughn.
I give his lady "kudos" for being upfront with him about this BEFORE arriving in the GoodOl' USA and marrying him.
It's really up to Civi68 if he wants to pay the money.
But as I already said, I wouldn't do it.
 
GOB

[Kineo]

I have been thinking about this since your letter the other day. My first thought was to agree with "unrealistic". But the more I think about it I see both sides. I am sure she contributes significantly to the household today. And if she leaves to be with you it will have a noteable impact on her family ("blood"). We all know how much family means to most of the FSUW. I can understand how she would not be willing to let leaving the household jeopardize the household. I do think it would be unrealistic to expect you to send this money without her contributing. If she is contributing I think I would try to find ground that we can both agree on.

[Misha]

I agree with GOB on this. He child is an adult and married. There is no reason why they shouldn't be capable of supporting themselves.

[Vaughn]

I agree with GOB on this. He child is an adult and married. There is no reason why they shouldn't be capable of supporting themselves.

Actually, I agree as well. GOB edited his post and IMO deleted the truth of the matter - it's child support, likely long term if not, as GOB stated, lifelong. Yet civi68 intends to return. We can only guess that the young married couple with baby are dwelling in Mom's flat - and will remain there if she departs with civi. As Kineo noted, they're probably going to have to find some common ground, an understanding if you will - that 1) the young marrieds cannot continue to be dependent forever and 2) civi cannot be expected to solely provide their support IF his lady accepts a proposal and heads west.

[Ade]

Don't get me wrong here Vaughn.
I give his lady "kudos" for being upfront with him about this BEFORE arriving in the GoodOl' USA and marrying him.
It's really up to Civi68 if he wants to pay the money.
But as I already said, I wouldn't do it.
 
GOB

He gets her, her family gets the financial reward. Almost sounds like she's sacrificing herself for the betterment of her family. Even if she isn't, why would anyone marry someone where a monthly stipend to her kith and kin is a mandatory part of the deal?

[Faux Pas]

Well the problem as stated was "we"  need to send home money. She's willing to work granted, with little earning potential. She can earn $300 a week in a menial job. Didn't strike me as a situation where she was seeking a lifelong welfare check for her children. The hubby doesn't earn much, they're a young couple with a child. She loves them and knows what she brings in that helps them. Sure there's a waning period or point IMO but, leaving them suddenly after supporting them isn't generally something a loving mother would do.


civi68, it's a situation to be dealt with. She's not going to alienate her family if she is at all worth her salt. Prepare to send some money, help her to or look for another woman. Trying to change her mind is probably futile and if you could change her mind on this, would you still want her?

[Vincenzo]

The woman is very young, only 42.
I imagine that her daughter is 20. She is probably a student, and she has a baby.

I met a young Ukrainian family in Odessa. Her parents had bought them an apartment and a car. And you're talking about $300.

[Ade]

The woman is very young, only 42.
I imagine that her daughter is 20. She is probably a student, and she has a baby.

I met a young Ukrainian family in Odessa. Her parents had bought them an apartment and a car. And you're talking about $300.

It's not about the amount of money. It is (if it's really the case and I'm not reading too much into this) about the prior expectation and the mandatory condition; "you can have me but only if you pay a monthly stipend to my family." Sounds too close to a business deal to me.

Of course, any man worth having will help family when they are in need but I would have serious issues being considered a permanent money source for no other reason than it's family.

[Kineo]

Civi,
 
I reread all the comments here. The thing that stands out here is most everyone, including myself, is trying to explain what she is thinking and why. The best person to explain this would be your UW.
 
I have found that I need to get more explaination about my UW's points of view than I do most woman in America I've met. Inevitably once I get a good understanding of her, things make sense and if I still do not agree we quickly reach a compromise.

[GoodOlBoy]

I met a young Ukrainian family in Odessa. Her parents had bought them an apartment and a car. And you're talking about $300.

Keywords.... HER PARENTS.
 
I am sure that if the shoe was on the other foot, Civi68 would not expect permanent financial support from his UW if one of his children from a previous relationship needed it.
 

It's not about the amount of money.

Exactly!
$300. a month is nothing in the scheme of things.
But as you said earlier SJ, it sounds to much like a "business deal" to me also.
You know.... like paying for the goose that lays the golden egg. 
 
GOB

[Misha]

it's child support, likely long term if not, as GOB stated, lifelong

Some women seek men to be cash cows and yes should the money stop coming they will often seek out greener pastures    I know one woman from Ukraine who sends money to her adult children and her mother and if she can be used as an indicator, the payments will continue forever as she will want to keep up appearances: she will want to show how much money she now has (whether she has it or not) and if she stops sending the money, it may make it seem as she does not have much money. So, it thus becomes lifelong.

[ML]

Many different aspects here.

One involves the amount of money.  Is it a lot for a particular man and wife, or even for the man alone if wife not working.

Second, regardless of the amount and ability to pay, it gives the appearance of some sort of pay for play situation.

Look at it from some analogous viewpoints.

e.g.  You are romancing a man/woman and getting serious about marriage.  You find out he/she owes a couple of hundred thousand for student loans, or for some previous medical problem, or just huge credit card bills, or whatever.  The party who owes this money is and can work, but paying off this prior debt will be a big chunk of money that comes out of the family pot of money that will be needed to buy a house, start education funds for the children, etc.

Would you back away from this situation?

So it is not so much a matter of whether the spouse will be working and able to pay the obligations . . . but rather that this money will not be available for 'normal' husband/wife family expenditures.

Most states/countries require various medical tests before marriage to ensure that both parties know something about the health risks that will be involved.  There should be similar financial tests.

[viking]

My wife's mother is on a pension, fixed income, and has fixed costs. When my wife arrived here, the loss of her income ( less her expenses) would have made her mother's life a bit more difficult but not unbearable. I liked her mom. I wanted to help. My wife appreciated this but told me only a "little bit" would be necessary. So I average about $50 a month.  Sometimes a little bit more when for example, she needed to replace the front door in her flat. Sometimes a bit less when we have an issue here. Sometimes she does not even use the money and it sits in a bank account. When it reaches a predetermined limit, I stop. But its there if she needs it.

I see nothing wrong with helping out the family back home, but you need to draw the line between what is truly needed versus just sending money back and then finding out they went for a vacation on Thailand. If you told this woman that you would be happy to send back, for example, $100 a month to help out a bit, what would her reaction be? Thank you for being considerate or I want more? I see no reason for you to significantly support a married daughter who has a working husband. $300 is a lot of money IMHO.

[vwrw]

Why do you feel that helping her daughter is unrealistic? Is it because  such a help would be an unsustainable burden on your family budget, even if she contribute her low wage in your budget ?  If yes, you need to be honest about it and tell her that you would not be able to afford such help because currently she seems to believe that you would be able to afford it.
 
If  your family budget can sustain such a reduction, but you do not want to do that for whatever reason, then you better move on, because you and this woman have different values and unlikely you will be able to find common language. Whatever you have together, she will be miserable, knowing that she does not help her family. She will blame you for not understanding and will make you miserable too.

Will you feel better if you also take 300$ a month from your family budget and do with the money whatever you wish to? In other words, let’s assume you together  earn 5000$ a month ( you earn 3500 $ and she earns 1500$). Each of you take an amount for your personal use and the rest is to be spent on common needs (insurance, food, utilities and so on).  This situation was our family solution. Each month we spent more than 1000$ to help our family on my husband's side and less than 300$ to help our family on my side.  We both were very happy with this arrangement .

[civi68]

Guys,
Thanks for all of your comments. The way I will probably approach this is compromise that when she works, she can send money but other parts of the budget will not be compromised. As long as she works somewhere even making only $800 a month, it won't be a problem unless she ends up spending beyond her paycheck. That way, she decides what she wants to do with her paycheck. This will also show that I am not willing to give a blank check. Of course, there is nothing set in stone even if the woman agrees so I could be setting myself up for arguments down the road or it could be fine.
   I agree with a lot of guys that agreeing to a lifetime of support is not something I agree with. Also, once you start sending money every month, next comes requests for more. So far, she continues to be positive with me on Skype in spite of this issue and is not active on the dating site where we first met. I don't send her money now and don't plan on sending anything beyond visa expenses if the relationship comes to that. I have been doing the FSU dating thing for years now and no matter where you look, there seem to be issues about money with these women. I find it best to limit what you send and buy gifts while there within reason. I have seen guys give into the peer pressure of these women if they get upset that they are not spending enough. I am easygoing but assertive so I can walk away at any time if need be.
     Before I left, I already went over how much I make, how much is realistic to spend on extras (cosmetics, clothes, restaurants, etc) and the importance of saving for future expenses and retirement. Again, you never know if it went through one ear and out the other and once the woman is here, it is like she never heard it. The guys who found a woman with reasonable expectations should count themselves lucky!

[civi68]

One more thing. As someone noted, setting a monthly stipend as a condition is what concerned me. Too much like a business deal to me.

[Misha]

One more thing. As someone noted, setting a monthly stipend as a condition is what concerned me. Too much like a business deal to me.

You should be concerned.

[acctBill]

civi68 sorry for the late post, just noticed the thread.  The practice of sending money home to help support family members is wide spread, it's not only related to relatives of FSU citizens.  I don't know if it's true or not but legend has it that 'remittance money' (money sent home to financially support family members) is the largest part of the GDP in countries like the Philippines, and some countries in Latin American, the Caribbean and Africa.

I can't really advise you on your particular situation because I don't know enough to give advice.  However, I lived in the Russian community in London for over a decade and know many Russian expats and Russians married to western spouses that not only regularly sent money back home but also took/sent gifts home.  All of this plus sponsored relatives to immigrate to the UK.  My wife and I had some of her younger relatives live with us for several years while they attended grad school and got settled into life in the UK. 

Marrying a FSUW usually involves more financial and emotional commitment to her family than would happen if you married the average western woman.  This is not a one way street, FSUW will generally be more involved in the life of your side of the family if they let her.  It is a different way of life being married to a FSUW.  My best advice is learn Russian, you'll learn about the culture and it will improve your chances of a successful search.