How to get started when it comes to looking for an Ukrainian woman?

[Hughtheo]

Misha, give it a break.

As for English being constantly on the radio and in pop songs, this is also an extreme exaggeration when talking about Russia. Russia has a thriving music industry, always had, and most Russian radio stations will play mainly Russian music. In recent years, the fad was techno which of course will give you pretty much zero when it comes to exposure to the English language.   

All I know first-hand about the FSU stems from my 5 days in St Petersburg attending a wedding and 3 days in Odessa. In both cities I heard Western pop music on the radio but also a lot of Russian music, to be fair.  Maybe Madonna and Prince were played because both cities are more metropolitan and attract more tourists than Omsk or Kharkov, I don’t know. 

How many Russian women have you helped from zero to fluency? And, by zero, I mean a woman who never studied English and was already an adult. I have, and I can tell you that it involved more than a fair share of tears and frustration and years of effort.

None. I taught adult classes in English but there were no Russians in the class room. So I have no idea how entrenched Russians might be in their linguistic system.

Yes, you may luck out and marry a woman who has a hidden talent for languages, but are you ready to spend up to a decade helping a woman who has zero English skills gain native fluency?

No, I am not ready to spend a decade getting my future wife up to speed with the language she will be speaking when in England. I will modify my search criteria to “good knowledge of English” to avoid all future complications. Good German or good French will also do. And I will make an effort to learn Russian. So, it goes both ways.

Now please let this be it. We can go on about this forever compiling endless lists of personal stories to back our cases without ever reaching an agreement. But that's a waste of both our time.
You say tomato, I say potato. Or something to that effect.

[ghost of moon goddess]

Hughtheo, I hope the FSU Deep Sea Fishing Guide will help you catch an English speaking  Ukrainian !!!! golden fish and land it   

[Manny]

The only reason for me to prefer Ukraine to Russia is easy access for EU citizens. All I need is my British passport to get to Ukraine. A few years ago, I've been to a wedding in St Petersburg and the process of getting a visa for Russia was quite something.

You go to the site called "Real Russia" in London, you get a Russian visa through the mail for £116. About five days, one form, no pain.

[Manny]

Hiya!

The second argument in favour of UW is that it will not take as long for UW to understand British culture and to appreciate British humour 

Good luck to you!!!!!

Not really. Ukrainian culture is no different to Russian culture when it comes to adapting in the UK. The notion that Ukrainian women will adapt in the UK easier than a Russian might because its ever so slightly closer is nonsense.

[Misha]

I will modify my search criteria to “good knowledge of English” to avoid all future complications. Good German or good French will also do.

The former is certainly a good strategy, the former I do not quite understand if the goal is to live in Great Britain 

[ghost of moon goddess]

Not really. Ukrainian culture is no different to Russian culture when it comes to adapting in the UK. The notion that Ukrainian women will adapt in the UK easier than a Russian might because its ever so slightly closer is nonsense.

REALLY??? 
Well, then take that as a joke 

[Hughtheo]

About me hoping to find a lady who speaks either English, German or French

The former is certainly a good strategy, the later I do not quite understand if the goal is to live in Great Britain 

Well, my aim is to get some communication going between me and the lady in question. If we can speak to each other in German or in French, that's a major first step. Also, it indicates that the lady has some linguistic abilities and might move on to learn English without too many problems.

At any rate, I don't want to rely on a translator all the time. Once we can actually talk to each other without outside help, we can decide how to move on. Or maybe we find that we don't get on at all as a result of direct communication. That might also be a possibility.

Just wondering - as a Canadian, do you know French? Or do you live in the English speaking part and have no contact with the Franco-Canadians?

[Donna_Pedro]

Hughtheo
 
In another topic I saw you asking about socials. Are you serious?

[Hughtheo]

You go to the site called "Real Russia" in London, you get a Russian visa through the mail for £116. About five days, one form, no pain.

Manny, thanks for the link. I will pass it on to my friend Jack whose wedding in St Petersburg I attended. He and his wife have 3 children, all born in Britain.

The amount of paperwork the they have to go through when the whole family wants to visit in in-laws in Russia, including fees of unspecified purpose, clearly is a left-over of the Soviet system. According to Jack's wife, that is.

[Misha]

If we can speak to each other in German or in French, that's a major first step. Also, it indicates that the lady has some linguistic abilities and might move on to learn English without too many problems.

It might make it a bit easier, some things may be a bit easier to understand, but learning English will still take time and effort. IMHO, when men start on this venture, they too easily underestimate the challenges they will face when married to a woman from another country, notably one who does not speak the language.

Just wondering - as a Canadian, do you know French? Or do you live in the English speaking part and have no contact with the Franco-Canadians?

I am French-Canadian 

[Hughtheo]

When I said "6 past tenses", I meant:
Past Simple: I went to the cinema yesterday.
Past Continuous: When I was going to the cinema, it started raining.
Past Perfect Simple: When I came to the cinema, the movie had already started.
Past Perfect Continuous: When I came to the cinema, my friends had already been waiting for me for an hour.
Present Perfect Simple: I've just come to the cinema.
 Present Perfect Continuous: I've been waiting for you for an hour.
Yes, the last two are called "present", but they are past for a Russian person as they describe events which have already happened
So now you can see where the challenge is - in Russian that'd be 2 tenses.
Anyway, I agree with you completely that English is much easier than German of French. However, don't forget that any of these languages is totally strange for Russian, so it doesn't matter much
But actually, it's not really a problem because there are a lot of girls out there who already know English, so you don't have to wait until they learn it

Nat, thanks for not getting into a slinging match on how many tenses the English language might have. I remember my university lecturer for English phonetics who made a point - and a very good point - that English has only 2 tenses, past and present. The rest are just compounds with gerunds and modal auxiliary verbs.

Out of curiosity, are you a native English speaker teaching in Ukraine? Or an Ukrainian lady teaching English?

[Hughtheo]

Hughtheo
 
In another topic I saw you asking about socials. Are you serious?

Yes, I was serious. I hoped there will be people on RWD who could share insight stories.

I have heard of socials - 100 women and 12 men - like the ones organised by "A Foreign Affair" with John Adams, in the $4.500 range. Some men seem to really like them, others are totally against the AFA format. I watched the report on Nightlife about romantic tours organised by AFA and they were very critical. Also not very objective, it has to be said. 

DP, I'm getting the distinct feeling you have an opinion.

[Hughtheo]

Faux Pas, thank you for your response. I have learnt a great deal in the last 2 days, just by reading postings coming from down-to-earth people who really seem to know what they are talking about.

I wish I had known of this forum before I rushed into paying for my short visit to Odessa. And I will take your solid advice on board, that's for sure.

The 'blood to penis out of brain' is a common male disease for which there is no cure. I am still recuperating from it.

Hughtheo

Just something for you to consider as you go about the process. The proverbial "kid in a candy store" is really prevalent among most men in this pursuit. Upgrading from one's usual dating abilities at home is relatively easy to do. So much so that many men get drunk on it.  Getting attention from a younger, more attractive and more educated woman than they would normally have a chance with in their own countries tends leave a blood rush to the penis and leaving the brain empty.


I caution you that you and any man searching, you are the same man in the FSU that you are at home. Keep that one invariable fact front and center. Stepping off of an airplane doesn't make one better looking, more youthful, more charming or endowed with a bigger schlong. It does however seem to make some more stupid.


There are plenty of young, attractive  hard body tarts in the West that will date and take advantage of an older man and usually with the same motives that they do it in the FSU. They are not more mature "for their age" or more family oriented. There are some very endearing qualities in these women not so prevalent back home. However, never lose sight of the fact that they are still women, the same gender you have at home that sent you looking elsewhere.


You appear to have a good head about you and I am sure you'll do fine. Good luck no matter what you decide.

[Gator]

Hughtheo,
 
You are missing something very special about UW/RW.  They are not only better looking on average than your British crumpets, they are different in many other ways.  I know this is not the case with you but your demands remind me of an American tourist who goes to Thailand and orders a Porterhouse steak, medium rare and is displeased when the steak is not as good as what he enjoys in Texas.  Meanwhile others at his table are in heaven dining on crab with chili lemongrass sauce and other local delicacies. 
 
For sure, you do not want to date a woman who needs an interpreter for basic conversation.  Instead, there are many, many RW who can not write paragraphs in English yet who can express themselves.  Perhaps they use Russian sentence structure and insert English words.  My ex-wife was that way, yet I could communicate easily with her about much of life.  Facial expressions, hand gestures, and choice of simple words conveyed everything.
 
I worked for a couple of years for the UN.  One colleague from Poland used only simple words and commanded my attention better than the Oxford graduate working with us.
 
So get off your pompous ass and forget your ideals.   Find a "live wire" who will show you her country,  her culture, and her friends and family and who is sincerely interested in getting to know you.   Hint:  She will not be 22-yo.  Another hint:  Respect her and be good to her.  It could be one of your finer experiences, perhaps even changing your ideals and standards.   Don't miss the opportunity to experience something new about the world and women.   
 
One last comment.  Most RW consider there is something wrong with a man in his 40s who has never married.  And you are in your 50s.
 
 

[Jumper]

..wish I had known of this forum before I rushed into paying for my short visit to Odessa.

It's really an oft repeated cycle.It can be any FSU city, but particularly Odessa.
A midde aged guy goes to Odessa to see one or more  20-25 yo (normally from A web or Anastsia ) and nothing works out , or he is worked a little or a lot, by the system in place.
You would have read many similar tales here.
 
Overall, you got off quite easy, and learned a valuable lesson, so it wasn't wasted time at all.
 
 
 The unfortunante part is that there were likely more than a few UW , more in your age range, with passable English in Odessa, that would have been happy to meet you while you were there.
 One of the hurdles you'd face already being in town, is the thought you are merely *playing*,and the age you *were* there to meet ,
would suggest that *player*, to both the agency staff, (legit or not ) and the other women registered there,
(they all speak about the men that show amoungst each other)
Like it or not ,and regardless your sincere intentions, that would be a lot of the women involved in this scenarios first impression.
These women (particular agencies, and particularly a city like Odessa)
 hear and see it all the time.It is likely their default position about any man, until he changes it by actions.(words are mostly meaningless)
 It's up to you to make those first impressions, whether in country, or in emails /skype etc.
 
Good luck..!
 
 

[Hughtheo]

Gator, what’s up? Bad day in the office?

Hughtheo,
 You are missing something very special about UW/RW.  They are not only better looking on average than your British crumpets, they are different in many other ways. 

I never made any comparison between British woman and ladies from the FSU. And your need to classify all British women as ‘crumpets’ shows your fundamental lack of decency.

I know this is not the case with you but your demands remind me of an American tourist who goes to Thailand and orders a Porterhouse steak, medium rare and is displeased when the steak is not as good as what he enjoys in Texas.  Meanwhile others at his table are in heaven dining on crab with chili lemongrass sauce and other local delicacies.   

You are spot on. None of the above has anything to do with me.

For sure, you do not want to date a woman who needs an interpreter for basic conversation.  Instead, there are many, many RW who can not write paragraphs in English yet who can express themselves.  Perhaps they use Russian sentence structure and insert English words.  My ex-wife was that way, yet I could communicate easily with her about much of life.  Facial expressions, hand gestures, and choice of simple words conveyed everything.
 I worked for a couple of years for the UN.  One colleague from Poland used only simple words and commanded my attention better than the Oxford graduate working with us.

That’s marvellous. Truly is.

So get off your pompous ass and forget your ideals.   Find a "live wire" who will show you her country,  her culture, and her friends and family and who is sincerely interested in getting to know you.   Hint:  She will not be 22-yo.  Another hint:  Respect her and be good to her.  It could be one of your finer experiences, perhaps even changing your ideals and standards.   Don't miss the opportunity to experience something new about the world and women. 

If I ever need advice on how to experience something new about the world and women, now I know whom to ask.

One last comment.  Most RW consider there is something wrong with a man in his 40s who has never married.  And you are in your 50s.

You have a failed marriage on your CV. How does that make you more attractive?

[Hughtheo]

It's really an oft repeated cycle.It can be any FSU city, but particularly Odessa.
A midde aged guy goes to Odessa to see one or more  20-25 yo (normally from A web or Anastsia ) and nothing works out , or he is worked a little or a lot, by the system in place.
You would have read many similar tales here.
 
Overall, you got off quite easy, and learned a valuable lesson, so it wasn't wasted time at all.
 
 
 The unfortunante part is that there were likely more than a few UW , more in your age range, with passable English in Odessa, that would have been happy to meet you while you were there.
 One of the hurdles you'd face already being in town, is the thought you are merely *playing*,and the age you *were* there to meet ,
would suggest that *player*, to both the agency staff, (legit or not ) and the other women registered there,
(they all speak about the men that show amoungst each other)
Like it or not ,and regardless your sincere intentions, that would be a lot of the women involved in this scenarios first impression.
These women (particular agencies, and particularly a city like Odessa)
 hear and see it all the time.It is likely their default position about any man, until he changes it by actions.(words are mostly meaningless)
 It's up to you to make those first impressions, whether in country, or in emails /skype etc.
 
Good luck..!

Jumper, thank you for your feedback. I also feel that my time and my money were not completely wasted. I could have carried on from Odessa to Nikolaev where another lady was prepared to meet me but I decided to cancel it all and go home. One week was planned and three days were experienced in real life.

I acted like a horny old fool agreeing to meet twenty-somethings with the sincere intention of building a relationship. I can't even explain to myself what I was thinking when I boarded the plane to Odessa. Too much time just by myself, I guess. With emails from very attractive girls off www.mypartnerforever.com coming in on a daily basis. In the end, I just gave in.


Well, lesson learned. The hard way.

 

[GQBlues]

As you can easily see in this thread alone, there are FSUWs still living in FSU who can speak English proficiently.
 

....What totally put me off was the fact that there was no communication possible without a translator being present. I had hoped for some basic understanding of English, but there was none. I only met 2 girls and cancelled a third date out of frustration.

In fact, I shortened my visit to just 3 days and returned to London. I found it absolutely staggering that all of my contacts seemed to be prepared to leave Ukraine for the right man who in most cases with be from an English-speaking country. None of them had made the slightest effort to get a basic understanding of English.....

Never waver on that conviction. I'm not sure how much time/trips you'd like to invest searching for your life partner in Ukraine or elsewhere but as far as my own experience is concerned, I was resigned to make a trip once. Not necessarily looking for romance, but rather to find out if any of the women I filtered out through emails would actually yield a reason for me (us) to continue. I was more than content dating locally so there wasn't an ounce of urgency for me.
 
I went to Russia with the implicit intent to meet the women as an introductory segment of our respective acquaintances. No promises. I wanted to extend an opportunity for us to meet in person to find out if there's any potential for us to pursue anything beyond the platonic level. Any further talks of relationship was deliberately avoided on my part. The general consensus from the gallery was I'll likely bite the dust and waste my time and money. But that consensus was their own and was never mine. It was a process I sought and I firmly stayed with it.
 
Moreover, I was repeatedly told FSUW doesn't like a man who plan to meet more than one gal since that's what they are and that's what they do. While I never took the position of being an expert on all things FSUW, I didn't listen and didn't waver in my conviction. The women I met not only knew I was there to meet others, they were more than respectful and content to wait on (our) their chances.
 
It wasn't easy and I accomplished what I set out to achieve without compromising anything on my part. The caveat however is, I was honest in my plans to each and every single one of the women I took interest in. They had the absolute choice to take part in the experience with me or not.
 
It was a grueling 3-month episode. By the time I took my trip, I was literally on the verge of a burn-out. So much so that Donna_Pedro had to help me navigate through the Moscow subway just to show me the way back to my hotel one day.     I'm sure it didn't help that I looked like an Uzbek 'lost' in Moscow to boot.

[Jumper]

Jumper, thank you for your feedback. I also feel that my time and my money were not completely wasted. I could have carried on from Odessa to Nikolaev where another lady was prepared to meet me but I decided to cancel it all and go home. One week was planned and three days were experienced in real life.

I acted like a horny old fool agreeing to meet twenty-somethings with the sincere intention of building a relationship. I can't even explain to myself what I was thinking when I boarded the plane to Odessa. Too much time just by myself, I guess. With emails from very attractive girls off www.mypartnerforever.com coming in on a daily basis. In the end, I just gave in.


Well, lesson learned. The hard way.

 

My wife's from Nikolaev,I've been there .
 
There are a lot of  bad agencies there , and the same scenario you ran into in Odessa ,
so if that meeting  was through the same agency you used,, i would expect the same results(particularly if the woman was younger)
 
You see that clearly now, so it was a very inexpensive lesson compared to many. !!
 
I will say there are a lot single women there..
I've met a lot of my wife's friends, and very few are married percentage wise in that age group,at least compared to my area.
Most are actively looking, just can't seem to find the right guy for them.
Granted most arn't looking abroad, but since they are in their thirties,or forties ,
 they wouldn't be against the idea either.
 
It's  generally a bit hard to meet those through agencies,as they simply dont sign up.
 Some do and so its a small percentage. (Still you ony need one that you hit it off with to begin an adventure together)
 
 I don't have a good answer on how to meet the ones that don't venture to an agency or list on line.The classmates, or other  similar websites and social sites are where they might be, but like women in your local city they are mostly going to be open to friends or aquantences they know locally.
Still it's worth the effort to investigate that route and make contacts.
 
 I can relay that any decent family oriented man living in Nikolaev,
would not lack from out right attention,and certainly be off the market fairly quick.
 
So, I can assure you the demand is there,(as well as most any provincial FSU city I've been in) There are a lot of different means and ways to advertise or be available in that market talked about here, and how you present yourself in that market is up to you.
 
Just keep in mind ,that UW will often have the same preconceptions about your actions,
as  anyone in London likely would?
I headed  up to Birmingham for a long weekend to date a few young girls,
might be fun, but few wouldn take you too seriously as far as marriage?
 
So just  brush it off and move forward.
 
 
 

[Jumper]

I'm sure it didn't help that I looked like an Uzbek 'lost' in Moscow to boot.

GQ- lol!!!
 

[Gator]

Gator, what’s up? Bad day in the office?

I don't have a job.  I double bogeyed two of the last three holes today for an 81, but  quickly forgot about those mistakes as I had many superb shots to carry my spirits. 
 

  I never made any comparison between British woman and ladies from the FSU. And your need to classify all British women as ‘crumpets’ shows your fundamental lack of decency.

For a teacher of English, your comprehension seems weak.   All?  IMO few British women are crumpets as I understand a 'crumpet' is a woman who is the object of sexual desire.   What is indecent about that?   Are you saying that sexual desire was not part of your reasons for chasing 22-yo UW?
 

  If I ever need advice on how to experience something new about the world and women, now I know whom to ask.

I am not asking you to listen to me.  In fact I really don't care.   You are the master of your fate.   I had some time so I gave you my impressions.   I did not have time to candy coat it, and besides I am out of candy coating.
 
Others have been critical of your pursuit of 22-yo dyevs.  I saw no need to pile on.  OTOH I could not ignore your insistence for English proficient women.  To me it seemed just like the American tourist insisting on American food in Thailand.  You will be missing something (say 90% of the RW and many of those 90% can communicate albeit at a slow pace).   
 
This comment shows that you do not understand or perhaps do not respect the situation in the FSU.
 

If I were serious about meeting a partner from abroad (most likely an English-speaking country) then I would make a concerted effort to speak English. Girls who are too lazy to do that will always lose out to others who have made the effort.

FSU women are not lazy.  Far from it.  I dated mostly divorced women and most of those were mamas.  They knew some English (work, residual from university, etc.)  yet had little time to study English intensively. 
 
Many of these women entered the "meet a foreign man sweepstakes" because they had grown weary of Russian men.  They hear from their peers that few men make the trip and many of those men are losers.  Yet, some still ignored the odds against them and took a group English class while working at a job and mothering children.   

In marketing terms, you increase your value. Tight jeans and cleavage go a long way but if a girl can communicate in the language of the man she wants to be with, she is more than half way there.

Half way?  Over many years I communicated with perhaps 50-75 RW who were attractive, educated and proficient in English.   Less than a third of these women advanced past the initial phone call (maybe they were not impressed with me and a bubbly personality did not come out  ).   Rather than being half way there, I assert 5% of the way is correct. 

[Donna_Pedro]

OTOH I could not ignore your insistence for English proficient women.

I think Hughtheo might have a point here. A friend of mine has asked me to help her out to look for an american man on several occasions. I keep telling her to start taking classes of english lanuage. She tells me she too busy between her job, household and a teenage daughter. I take it her priorities are not  quite where they ought to be if she is seriously looking,  so I do not go above and beyond for her too. She is very attractve. But she thinks thats enough to carry her through.  If a woman is planning to live here (UK, US) she should make an effort to learn the language. Also I am not participating in arranging smth for my friend without her clear first-hand understanding of what she is getting herself into. I dont want her to blame me later for not picking up on some details she should have known before uprooting herself and moving to a different country. Yes, there are success stories without english language, but I dont like to take this risk. I dont do it for my best friend and I wont advise it to any of the guys.

[OlgaH]

If a woman is planning to live here (UK, US) she should make an effort to learn the language.

I absolutely agree. The same answer I gave to some of my girlfriends when they got an idea to jump into international dating.The language should be first.

[Gator]

I absolutely agree. The same answer I gave to some of my girlfriends when they got an idea to jump into international dating.The language should be first.

I think Hughtheo might have a point here. A friend of mine has asked me to help her out to look for an american man on several occasions. I keep telling her to start taking classes of english lanuage. She tells me she too busy between her job, household and a teenage daughter. I take it her priorities are not  quite where they ought to be if she is seriously looking,  so I do not go above and beyond for her too. She is very attractve. But she thinks thats enough to carry her through.  If a woman is planning to live here (UK, US) she should make an effort to learn the language. Also I am not participating in arranging smth for my friend without her clear first-hand understanding of what she is getting herself into. I dont want her to blame me later for not picking up on some details she should have known before uprooting herself and moving to a different country. Yes, there are success stories without english language, but I dont like to take this risk. I dont do it for my best friend and I wont advise it to any of the guys.

Both of you have excellent points.   And most everyone agrees with you.
 
Two questions:
 
1.  Both of you are fluent in English.  What do the less than fluent RW have to say?
 
2.  What is the fluency threshold for attempting this?   
 
I contend that it can be done with Level 3 speaking RW.  Level 1-2 is pushing the envelope, yet I have had success there.  And I am someone who needs an intellectual connection. 
 
I dated two women seriously but not concurrently who were Level 1-2 speakers.   Upon leaving I gave money to both for lessons. 
 
One showed no improvement upon my arrival for a second visit. Paka.
 
The other showed some improvement, but more importantly an exuberant attitude to learn.  She was a keeper.  Unfortunately, we had an unsurvivable misunderstanding (that most probably would not have happened had she spoken English at Level 4-5).   
 
Her ethereal beauty is haunting and years later we are back together.   Somehow we communicate and it improves.  She continues to study English. We Skype.   She is concerned about adjusting to America when and if we get there.  However, she has visited my home several times and the domestic times are delightful.  She enjoys watching American films provided they have English captions.   We take long walks, enjoy concerts, go flats fishing, hunt for antiques, enjoy fine dining, pull weeds from the flower garden, play with my dog, travel well, and laugh together (in private and at parties).   She sure seems far better than my "Mistake" who was fluent enough to answer the telephone her first week here.
 
What do I miss?  We can not enter political discussions with my friends, making my friends look at me with puzzlement.  So that and similar  parts of my former life are done without her or not done PERIOD.  A misunderstanding requires us to use Google translate.  Sometimes it is resolved in 5 minutes.  Sometimes an hour is not enough, which perhaps would be no different if she spoke English fluently considering the nature of some conflicts.   
 
Patience, patience, patience...
 
Six years after meeting her I ask myself questions.  Am I having fun?  Yes?  Do I feel loved?  Yes.  Do I want to spend time with another woman?  No (and there are plenty of opportunities - but Donna if your friend would like a trial visit let me know   - just joking).

[Donna_Pedro]

  What do the less than fluent RW have to say?

This is called competition. If you want to compete in an unfavorable  market successfully, you need to acquire marketable skills.

2.  What is the fluency threshold for attempting this?

Ability to talk and understand each other without a translator. Ability to write and respond to e-mails without a translator. Ability to participate in a meaningful conversation on various matters.

One thing else - correct me if I am wrong,  but I do remember that you have "special circumstances" - meaning unlimited time and more than sufficient resources to spend on this process. Also, it seems it has been quite a few years that you have been engaged in it and it is still not complete. Most people do not have unlimited time. A lot of people do not have the resources to carry on for years and learn costly lessons from their mistakes. I am trying to advise them how to increase their chances without going bankrupt in a process.