Realistic Expectations

[OlgaH]

There s a demand therefore theres a supply. And girls with brains chase their goals, and its just not always all this love-family stuff.

Agree 100%.

Some marry cuz they have love, some marry cuz its covenient - whats so wrong about it? Those sometimes last longer and work better. To each his own.

actually the same thing I said in another threads: to each his own hapiness 

And why everybody is so hateful at those good looking girls? If (as you say) they just have legs (and no brains) - they still wanna make it in this life and fulfill their dreams whatever they are - so they have to use legs and their cute face.

If you ask me... personally I'm not hateful at all.  I'm a "ray of sunshine"  Everybody makes own living as can. Understandable.

BTW I like Donna_Pedro's post below 

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=11638.msg284233#msg284233

[GQBlues]

OK, answering your question     

Yipee! Finally 
 

....If you give me an ultimatum that I should shop only at garage sales with no more than $50 and will force me to do so... no, it is not my style  and never were in Russia.

 
Of course, that's realistic. That goes for me as well and obviously your point was it doesn't mean folks like Misha can't make her wife enjoy the pleasure of hitting the monthly garage sale extravaganza with 50 bucks on hand for her wonderful wardrobe collection. I bet she's so happy about this, I won't be surprised she marks it in her calendar. He's happy, she's happy! The garage sale seller, who's 50 bucks richer, is happy! It's a happy, happy world!
 
 
(*btw Misha, are those Canadian dollars?*)
 
 
So if happiness is the final destination, who the heck cares what brought the couple there in the first place? Do you agree?

[GQBlues]

For the umpteenth time, I gave garage sales as one example among many

 
Yes you did Misha. I remember very well. Garage sale was first option. Yard sale was a very close second, LOL.

[GQBlues]

Is it possible that you are baiting dear Olga because you want to stay on Gator's good side?

Oh c'mon maxx...all these years you've known me when did I ever go out of my way to get on anyone's good side?   
 
I've always been reality's gate keeper, is all. Besides, I like both Gator and OlgaH with equal measure.

[GQBlues]

Oh, if you want use the word "implications"  in such case in my post I implied that I think it is not right to get married without love or being in love and making "the money or financial wellness of a partner" a primary base for a marriage and wait if love comes after a wedding ceremony. Personally I would never marry a man if I would not love him and he would not tell me that he loves me too,  and I can not fall in love with a man when "what I don't like about his personality" outweighs "what I do love about his personality."    

 
OK...but on who's authority is it to determine a *universal* definition of love for everyone? If someone's definition of love doesn't suit you, does that mean it can't possibly be love and therefore they can't possibly be happy?
 
This is what I meant before when I stated you were contradicting yourself. You keep stating people gravitate to the same level for happiness to ensue. But then, as shown above, you seem to suggest that if those levels didn't fit within your definition of 'love', then they can't possibly be happy....

[Daveman]

 
Yes you did Misha. I remember very well. Garage sale was first option. Yard sale was a very close second, LOL.

I don't see what the big debate is over garage sales, Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom, the Gap, etc.. 


Women should, armed with scissors and needle, and maybe a thimble if she behaves, sit in the cozy trailer home and make the family clothes..  no need to buy designer when one can BE the designer... now, where can we find discount materials?




At any rate, I think the garage sale comments have been taken a little out of context and extrapolated to new levels of silliness.  I don't recall $50 monthly clothing limits or garage sale coercion being part of the process but rather an example of how to get quality items at better prices. My sis and her husband were well into the top 0.10% of income earners (now retired) and have rummaged yard/garage sales for years.  They have a blast doing it and even brag about it. 


The difference, I guess, is "choice".  There are many options (garage sales being merely one) to save money and still acquire name brand, quality items.  I see no negative whatsoever.   

[jeff9556]

At any rate, I think the garage sale comments have been taken a little out of context and extrapolated to new levels of silliness.  I don't recall $50 monthly clothing limits or garage sale coercion being part of the process but rather an example of how to get quality items at better prices. My sis and her husband were well into the top 0.10% of income earners (now retired) and have rummaged yard/garage sales for years.  They have a blast doing it and even brag about it.

Quite true, I am easily in top 10% of earners in Sweden and during the Summer months I go to something called "Barn Loppis" in our local Folkets park (Peoples park) - this is kind of a like boot sale for kids. People turn up and display all their unwanted kids stuff and sell it for next to nothing. Great place to pick up kids books, used toys or clothing. On the flip side I might just as quickly shop at Polarn O Pyret - one the more expensive children's clothing stores.

I like Barn Loppis, its a bit of fun and there's something in me that loves to unearth a bargin 

[chivo]

My three sample points about the issue of wanting to stay in Russia (I have little experience with Ukraine):
 
1.  I continue to meet many RW students attending a large university near my home.  These students are bright and represent the type of young people that Russia needs for its future.  Their plans? Almost all want to stay in America after their studies are completed.   

One of the reasons for this, at least as it stands now is a perceived belief that there is more opportunity for educated Russians in America especially if they are educated there. This is also especially true for Russians who live somewhere besides Moscow. I really think nowadays the reality is they would have just as good an opportunity in Russia (mostly in Moscow) as they will have in America.
 
The perception of those opportunities being available for them in Russia though is nowhere near the same as the perception of those opportunities in America and that is why it doesn't surprise me in the least that the want to stay in America. Bottom line, America is still at this posting, overall a much more comfortable existence for them.
 
And when I talk about opportunities we shouldn't exclude this very real fact about life in Russia for young, intelligent, ambitious, yet wanting a family RW, and its simply this...
 

Yep, if you manage to pluck them while they are still "green". We do have gender-disproportional population in Russia. Men die more often than women. They drink excessively and it runs deep in our culture. Men get themselves killed a lot. Back in 90s a considerable amount of men of my generation were killed in mafia wars. There is simply not enough men! And they know about it and it affects their attitude a lot. Women are competing for good men and I got tired to compete. I want to live in a society where women have thrown men off the pedestal.

Some of you, especially the newbies have no idea what it's like to be a RW in Russia. The competition for men (among other things) is fierce. Certainly much more competitive than anything I've seen in the States.
 
It is also quite simply a man's world and taking into account all the facts raised in the above post, if I were a single RW living alone in Russia I would seriously consider getting out. Matter of fact, if I were an AW I wouldn't be living here...simple. I feel sorry for most of the AW that I've met who live here who aren't already married.
 
Overall I like living in Moscow. It's an exciting city to live in. But let's get real here, it is made all the more exciting by the fact that I'm a man who while relatively successful and decent looking, I'm up to my neck in RW. Hardly a week goes by without the possibility of hooking up with a new RW.  And it's not like I'm going out of my way to go out with them, they're just everywhere here and they simply want to find a good man. 

Most of the RW I've talked who want to leave Russia wouldn't dream of leaving if things were the other way around and they were the hunted instead of the hunter as it should be. In America it is more of a woman's world, why wouldn't a woman, any woman who has lived in SUCH a male driven society for most of her life not want to be there given this fact...opportunities for career notwithstanding.
 
Again, most, no all of the RW I've talked to talk who talk about leaving Russia are single, unattached women who are just plain tired of being alone and the continual competition with other women for men and the attitude of the men because of this dynamic.
 
It has nothing or very little to do with career opportunities, making more money, better living conditions or wacky politics.  If they (RW) want to leave Russia, really want to leave, it's because they are just fed up with living/being alone. Most deserve better.

[GQBlues]

....At any rate, I think the garage sale comments have been taken a little out of context and extrapolated to new levels of silliness.  I don't recall $50 monthly clothing limits or garage sale coercion being part of the process but rather an example of how to get quality items at better prices. My sis and her husband were well into the top 0.10% of income earners (now retired) and have rummaged yard/garage sales for years.  They have a blast doing it and even brag about it.... 

 
Oh no, no no...Daveman. Rummaging is one thing, making it into a way of life is quite another, IMO.
 
Misha said that for years they average $100 - $150.00/mo on clothing. Thats per couple. I flat-out didn't believe him for obvious reasons. Not especially for a woman. I thought at the time Misha was just was caught in his own argument to the point of absurdity like he always does. But instead of saying he erred, to my shock of horrors, he actually marched deeper into the world of silliness. I told him if he thinks he can convince me he only spend 50 bucks/month each for him and his wife on clothes - more power to him. I'm not buying (no pun intended) any of it. To which he responded that he in fact could, and implied have been doing so for years, then cited how and where by laying out his options...1. Garage sales.....2. Yard sales....
 
 
Ohhhkkeeedookeee! If they're happy-happy, that's cool with me. Like Gator said, we should never forget that some of these RWs should be happy with this type of living as technically it is still an improvement from their lives back in Russia (lol).
 
 
Anyway, I can't help but wonder since then if Misha is one of those overweight dudes you see delightfully shopping rummaging garage sales who seem to always be wearing earth shoes (we call them Moses' shoes) with mid-high socks over pale pasty white legs, wrapped around in those silly 1980s black tummy pouch that is neatly nestled just below the fat fold of their bulging belly button.
 
 
Almost like the dude in the blue on this pic, except he's wearing one of those 'European Man's shoulder bag'. (Now, now...there's nothing wrong with that. If Euro men likes shoulder bags, it should be fine - for them.)
 

[Misha]

At any rate, I think the garage sale comments have been taken a little out of context and extrapolated to new levels of silliness.  I don't recall $50 monthly clothing limits or garage sale coercion being part of the process but rather an example of how to get quality items at better prices.

Pretty much. I also specified that garage sales can be a good place to get children's clothing. The reason is simple: children outgrow their clothes quickly. Thus, parents can quickly accumulate piles of clothes that have been worn very little and will no longer fit the child. Quite often, said parents will try to get rid of these clothes and if they don't have younger children or don't have relatives with  younger children, they will sell this clothing either at garage sales or now online (here is an example: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/BOYS-SIZE-2T-MIXED-LOT-CLOTHES-OSH-KOSH-POLO-OLD-NAVY-DOUBLE-TROUBLE-GC-/190624962010?pt=US_Baby_Toddler_Boys_Clothes&hash=item2c622215da#ht_14414wt_1350). Thus, you have options whereby you can get a lot of children's clothes at a fraction of the original price, potentially buying $100 or $200 or more of clothes for kids for $10 or $20. A family, can therefore, save a lot of money by buying clothes for kids at places such as garage sales or online as opposed to buying them new!

[Misha]

Misha said that for years they average $100 - $150.00/mo on clothing. Thats per couple. I flat-out didn't believe him for obvious reasons.

Believe me or don't believe me, that is your choice. However, you have to keep in mind that we all don't dress for status. Fortunately, in my line of work everybody dresses very casually, so I need a suit a handful of times per year. This keeps costs down quite a bit. As for my wife, she is extremely careful with her clothes and she does not buy clothes unless she needs it and she does not buy clothes unless it matches clothing she already has. In other words, she does not have to buy a lot of clothes as often as women and when she does buy a piece of clothing, she always seeks to maximize cost to value and when she does buy a more expensive piece of clothing, she will be sure to wear it for a very long time. In other words, she won't simply buy the first piece of clothing that she likes that she pulls off of the rack. But, no, she does not buy thousand dollar purses.

[Misha]

Anyway, I can't help but wonder since then if Misha is one of those overweight dudes you see delightfully shopping rummaging garage sales who seem to always be wearing earth shoes (we call them Moses' shoes) with mid-high socks over pale pasty white legs, wrapped around in those silly 1980s black tummy pouch that is neatly nestled just below the fat fold of their bulging belly button.

Wonder all you will as I don't care. However, given the bitterness that you are spewing in your posts as of late, I can only conclude that you must not be very happy in your life. So, if posting such comments is therapeutic for you, then I won't stand in your way...

[Misha]

 
Yes you did Misha. I remember very well. Garage sale was first option. Yard sale was a very close second, LOL.

Yes, I gave garage sales as finding clothes for children 

[OlgaH]

Yipee! Finally 

Yes, I did, Finally. Because I also have things to do beside the forum     

 

Of course, that's realistic. That goes for me as well and obviously your point was it doesn't mean folks like Misha can't make her wife enjoy the pleasure of hitting the monthly garage sale extravaganza with 50 bucks on hand for her wonderful wardrobe collection. I bet she's so happy about this, I won't be surprised she marks it in her calendar. He's happy, she's happy! The garage sale seller, who's 50 bucks richer, is happy! It's a happy, happy world!
 
 
(*btw Misha, are those Canadian dollars?*)
 
 
So if happiness is the final destination, who the heck cares what brought the couple there in the first place? Do you agree?

Realistic? Being realistic I don't exclude from my shopping list discounted stores and even flee markets and garage sales when I have a chance and I don't need to shop for my clothes every month spending hundred and hundreds dollars.  And that's my reality.

You apply your own understanding of realism on Misha insulting and mocking him and his wife just because she likes to shop even at garage sales along with discounted stores buying actually the same clothes as some other women only cheaper? 

Yes, the happiness together is a final destination. And that's why in my opinion it is important to find a life partner who shares the same ideas. Misha did find his partner and they are both happy together no matter if you able to understand it or not 

[Muzh]

I don't see what the big debate is over garage sales, Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom, the Gap, etc.. 

Daveman, it's very simple. If someone goes to a (god forbid) garage sale, the man has no business in being part of the exclusive club of well-to-do WM marrying women from the former Soyuz. By rule, these men have to be extremely solvent for their precious cargo not be spoiled in transit. And not to mention when they get here. Constant primping for them to always look appealing to the palate.


Now, that would be reality.


BTW Olga, my wife likes your line of thinking. Love above all.

[Muzh]

Quite true, I am easily in top 10% of earners in Sweden and during the Summer months I go to something called "Barn Loppis" in our local Folkets park (Peoples park) - this is kind of a like boot sale for kids. People turn up and display all their unwanted kids stuff and sell it for next to nothing. Great place to pick up kids books, used toys or clothing. On the flip side I might just as quickly shop at Polarn O Pyret - one the more expensive children's clothing stores.

I like Barn Loppis, its a bit of fun and there's something in me that loves to unearth a bargin 

With three kids, I did the same. I would buy Osh Kosh, Carter, Bostonian, Stride Rite, etc at pennies to the dollar and the majority of the time, the sales tag was still attached.

[OlgaH]

 
OK...but on who's authority is it to determine a *universal* definition of love for everyone? If someone's definition of love doesn't suit you, does that mean it can't possibly be love and therefore they can't possibly be happy?
 
This is what I meant before when I stated you were contradicting yourself. You keep stating people gravitate to the same level for happiness to ensue. But then, as shown above, you seem to suggest that if those levels didn't fit within your definition of 'love', then they can't possibly be happy....

Personally I don't apply and determine a *universal* definition of love if you read my posts. I simply gave my understanding of love. And I said personally I would not marry a man if I would not love him.

If the idea  of entering into marriage with "heads cold and love-free" and not being in love suits you and your wife that's fine and you can beat your own drum trying to justify it. Personally I don't want a loveless marriage with cold heads and wait for love after wedding ceremony. I'm just not able to live with a man I do not love or I'm not in love with him, and yes, I beat my drum 

[GQBlues]

Yes, I did, Finally. Because I also have things to do beside the forum     

OlgaH: Posts - 3,621
GQBlues: Posts - 2874
Misha: Posts - 5913
 
...and both of you actively post at other forums as well, right?   
 

Realistic? Being realistic I don't exclude from my shopping list discounted stores and even flee markets and garage sales when I have a chance and I don't need to shop for my clothes every moth spending hundred and hundreds dollars.  And that's my reality.

Yup. Mine as well....but neither is a 50 bucks monthly garage sale extravaganza reality.

...You apply your own understanding of realism on Misha insulting and mocking him and his wife just because she likes to shop even at garage sales along with discounted stores buying actually the same close as some other women only cheaper? 

Insult him?!? Hardly. I think it's wonderful there are folks who do that. But like you said, you're not one of them and I'm not either. Read below...

Yes, the happiness together is a final destination. And that's why in my opinion it is important to find a life partner who shares the same ideas. Misha did find his partner and they are both happy together no matter if you able to understand it or not     

Exactly. Now were starting to progress...I'm glad you can now see this point.

[GQBlues]

Believe me or don't believe me, that is your choice. ...

No. Of course I believe you Misha! 

[sniper]

We were kinda talking about HAVING to shop at garage sales/goodwill or whatever. When its just ones choice its quite a different story.
My hubby, before he met me, hardly ever spent more than 30$ on a shirt and he thought its fine  He could afford way nicer things though (before he met me lol )
And when we met he had 30$ watch...OMG...to me man and watch is a a big deal, just like a woman and a purse. But well he simply didnt think so. He used to say 'You know what 30$ watch do just as well as 300K $ watch do? - tell time'
We will never be happy if for that we need to share our views on the cost of the clothes as Olga says. But we have understanding 

[GQBlues]

Personally I don't apply and determine a *universal* definition of love if you read my posts. I simply gave my understanding of love. And I said personally I would not marry a man if I would not love him.

If the idea  of entering into marriage with "heads cold and love-free" and not being in love suits you and your wife that's fine and you can beat your own drum trying to justify it. Personally I don't want a loveless marriage with cold heads and wait for love after wedding ceremony. I'm just not able to live with a man I do not love or I'm not in love with him, and yes, I beat my drum   

OK...you sort of lost me on the cold head / drum beating part, but I think I get the overall gist of your post. You won't marry anyone with whom you do not love or are in love with! I agree that's a really nice way of putting this in proper perspective. Yes, I feel the same as you...
 
But for example, you really love a man and want nothing more than marry him, yet at the same time you also understand how much you would hate the idea of being constrained to 50 bucks/mo garage sale clothing - knowing full well this is the kind of guy he is, Moses shoes, tummy purse, fatty belly button and all, would you still marry him? 

[OlgaH]

OlgaH: Posts - 3,621
GQBlues: Posts - 2874
Misha: Posts - 5913
...and both of you actively post at other forums as well, right?   

Oh yes, OlgaH  2.108 per day 

My job is mostly depends on the computer  About my activity on other boards you exaggerate. Check the date when I posted on other boards last time 


 

 

Yup. Mine as well....but neither is a 50 bucks monthly garage sale extravaganza reality.

But other people are happy with that take it or leave it. 
 

Exactly. Now were starting to progress...I'm glad you can now see this point.

I see you started to make a little bit of progress to understand "to each his own happiness" as I said before this thread 

[GQBlues]

Daveman, it's very simple. If someone goes to a (god forbid) garage sale, the man has no business in being part of the exclusive club of well-to-do WM marrying women from the former Soyuz. By rule, these men have to be extremely solvent for their precious cargo not be spoiled in transit. And not to mention when they get here. Constant primping for them to always look appealing to the palate.


Now, that would be reality.


BTW Olga, my wife likes your line of thinking. Love above all.

 
Do you not find it odd that the people who constantly preach about marital bliss and happiness come from people who failed in their own relationships? Like you..
 
That's like Obama preaching about Hope and Change, yeah?

[Jumper]

 
A friend of mine has always behaved like she is entitled to things.  It pissed a lot of people off. Men and women. Especially women.  They can’t see how come an average looking girl (and a no rocket scientist too) always had it served to her on a golden plate, while others, better looking and smarter, had to work hard for for much less. Men - even if they are smart enough to figure her out, still can not stop giving her whatever she wants.  She says -when a person truly, deeply, sincerely believes in something, it is contagious - people around start believing it too.    I am not pissed. I am envious. Compared to her I am tame.

That's not what I'd call much of a man.
Regardless his background education or social status, *he's* a putz on this front.
She's basically a user,hardly an admirable trait.
I'm not envious of her at all, nor do i blame her , but I simply  find someone feeling entitled to things handed to them,or using others to obtain them, rather than feeling they should apply themselves to their own goals, not a very interesting person.
 
I do find it odd you'd respect her talents.She is right that it can work, and does with people of poor judgement or a sense of lower self esteem,but hardly a life to look back and be proud of.
 
Before you jump, there is no gender bias in my sentiment.
A woman giving a man whatever he wants, simply because he has some entitlement attitude that if portrayed long enough with enough gusto, that others should believe it,
 isn't much of a woman.and certainly isn't truly *smart*.
You alluded to a similar  RM mentality ,and that you choose to live in a society where men
are already knocked off the pedestal. So you seem to share my sentiment,but seem to apply it only to females.
lol!!!!
 
This thread was about realistic expectations,,
So  lets keep it  real?
If someone wants to  reach for new heights that's admirable,respectable, and completely understandable,
but an expectation for the average individual ,from an average background,
to drastically change because the internet was invented , is what I find amusing and hardly grounded ,or realistic, in most cases.
 
 This venture is littered with far more train wrecks than anything else, a good portion of that is due to unrealistic expectations by average people on both sides of the equation.
 
If faced with a reality that  is far closer to the average life ,or PERSON, in east /west countries, (which should afterall appear normal?)
it amazes me how many here recoil from that in utter shock.
 
 
 
Glad all here married exceptional standout and above average citizens in their respective societies.
 
boo Rah!
 
 

[OlgaH]

 But for example, you really love a man and want nothing more than marry him, yet at the same time you also understand how much you would hate the idea of being constrained to 50 bucks/mo garage sale clothing - knowing full well this is the kind of guy he is, Moses shoes, tummy purse, fatty belly button and all, would you still marry him? 

And why do you think I would fall in love with a man who would constrain me and give me a different kind of ultimatums? 

Misha btw does not constrain his wife and does not give her ultimatums, she makes her own choices. And I don't think her choices regarding shopping are wrong and I see nothing wrong with that.