Realistic Expectations

[GQBlues]

..A rhetorical question:   We always accept the premise that only a small percentage of the men who  write RW ever get on a plane.  I further assert that of those few men who do make the trip, a very small percentage actually marry.   My opinion is based on visiting Cindy Ageny offices and observing the number of men who visit, the number of women listed as engaged, and what the interpreters had to say.  Considering there are many economically desperate women ready to marry almost anyone, why are there so few marriages?...

     
   
I know you said 'rhetorical', but FWIW...USCIS data since 2000 suggest annual K-visa averages to roughly 30K/yr coming to the US. The Russian portion of that, IINM, went from 3K to 2010's tally of 650 (of this number, almost impossible to determine how many were from MOB vs. ex-pat petitions, other social network venue, chance meetings, F1/H1 marriages, etc).... The count from countries like China and the Philippines had more than made up for the diminished present day number from Russia. I reckon that is largely attributed to an improved Russian economy, and to some extent, world relation leading to easing world travel restrictions, both business and pleasure.

[Eduard]

No. You simply make youself more marketable. If you understand that it's a competitive market, then be competitive by improving your 'product'.

the hypocrisy of this post... yet, you didn't listen to your own advice and went to Russia to find a wife!
Truth is that Russian women generally are different from AW. A very different mentality. The fact that you don't recognise that fact is puzzling.

[GQBlues]

the hypocrisy of this post... yet, you didn't listen to your own advice and went to Russia to find a wife!
Truth is that Russian women generally are different from AW. A very different mentality. The fact that you don't recognise that fact is puzzling.

True. Like yourself, we're BIG losers, aren't we Eduard? But I do believe you're far bigger though. At least I never tried to make money out of this biz to feed my family, yes?
 
Seriously, what would you do if Russia's (even Ukraine's) economy continues to improve and renders this biz null and void? Learn Mandarin? Tagalog?
 
If you really are 'trying' to help men who can't help themselves get dates and broaden their respective horizons, why not do so in Estonia, Czech, Slovakia and places like it as well that have strong Slavic heritage but are far more economically improved than the subject places...After all, you often boast how you do not surf the IMB sites women but rather normal social/dating sites....
 
Is this the 'difference' in mentality you infer?
 

[Jack]

GQ, a couple of things.

I think if eduard relied solely on his ability to feed his family from the money he makes helping men to meet Russian wife's, can't say Ukraine wife's, they would be very hungry.   

Next thing, you write ... "what would you do if Russia's (even Ukraine's) economy continues to improve and renders this biz null and void?"....   

Russia and Ukraine's economy are a very small factor in why today's Ukr/Rus women are looking for a foreign husband.   This business is not going to die during my lifetime, or eduards lifetime.  The number one reason these Ukr/Rus women are looking for a foreign husband is due to the actions of a majority of Ukr/Rus men. Plain and simple.  It's going to take two generations for these men to change, when they start to change, and this hasn't even started yet. 

These Ukr/Rus men are so spoiled by having so many beautiful, young women, many by just snapping their fingers.

As a client asked me a few day's ago   "Aren't these Russian and Ukraine men going to get upset with foreigners coming and getting their most beautiful women?"   To date we foreign men haven't made a dent in the number of available women Russian and Ukraine men have.  Russian and Ukraine men are always very nice to me, even after they know why I am there, what I am doing there.  These guy's haven't even been effected and this has been going on now for 20 years.

[Gator]

True. Like yourself, we're BIG losers, aren't we Eduard? But I do believe you're far bigger though. At least I never tried to make money out of this biz to feed my family, yes?
 

Unwarranted GQ.  Eddie does have a very optimistic attitude regarding RW (he married one who is the mother of his precious children).  And sometimes his exuberance and intuitive thinking style may purport a situation that a more analytical person would doubt.  However, he is sincere. 
 
I admire someone who is the entrepreneur and makes a living by following a path that few if any have taken before.  This contrasts starkly with the cookie-cutter jobs that most Americans have.   

[Gator]

This business is not going to die during my lifetime, or eduards lifetime.  The number one reason these Ukr/Rus women are looking for a foreign husband is due to the actions of a majority of Ukr/Rus men. Plain and simple. 

I agree with you Jack except that I have it tied at Number One reason with  Limited Opportunity for RW to Better Themselves.

As a client asked me a few day's ago   "Aren't these Russian and Ukraine men going to get upset with foreigners coming and getting their most beautiful women?"   To date we foreign men haven't made a dent in the number of available women Russian and Ukraine men have.  Russian and Ukraine men are always very nice to me, even after they know why I am there, what I am doing there.  These guy's haven't even been effected and this has been going on now for 20 years.

You are correct.  The RM who are players consider RW a dime a dozen.  If RM felt as if AM were rustling some of their herd of women, there would have already been a number of beatings.   

[onlyFSU4me]

No. You simply make youself more marketable. If you understand that it's a competitive market, then be competitive by improving your 'product'.

 I would also be interested in knowing why you didn't "improve your product" and married a Russian lady instead. But please, don't deflect the conversation like you did with Eduard!   

[Gator]

     
   
I know you said 'rhetorical', but FWIW...USCIS data since 2000 suggest annual K-visa averages to roughly 30K/yr coming to the US. The Russian portion of that, IINM, went from 3K to 2010's tally of 650 (of this number, almost impossible to determine how many were from MOB vs. ex-pat petitions, other social network venue, chance meetings, F1/H1 marriages, etc).... The count from countries like China and the Philippines had more than made up for the diminished present day number from Russia. I reckon that is largely attributed to an improved Russian economy, and to some extent, world relation leading to easing world travel restrictions, both business and pleasure.

You are correct - not an answer.
 
You say 650 marriages.  If half came through the MOB industry, that is so small.   Keep in mind that more RW marry Europeans/Ozzies than Americans.
 

The week I spent in Kharkiv-Dnepropetrovsk, I guess 7-10 men came through Cindy Agency.  Not all were American men.   Let us assume that each met 3-7 women.  I believe at most only 5 Cindy Agency UW (probably less) had become engaged in the prior year.   So that puts the gross estimate of meetings leading to marriage at  less than one percent,   The actual ratio of meetings to marriages could perhaps be as small as 1000:1.   

 
Why so small?    If there is such economic desperation as you suggest, the UW are willing to marry almost anyone.  Did the UW find the men who showed up to be unworthy?  If so, they were not very desperate.  Or did the men discover AW ain't so bad?   

[GQBlues]

Why so small?    If there is such economic desperation as you suggest, the UW are willing to marry almost anyone.  Did the UW find the men who showed up to be unworthy?  If so, they were not very desperate.  Or did the men discover AW ain't so bad?

But that's exactly what the recent discussion is about. You can surf USCIS website and look for yourself the number of RWs coming to the US on student visas/work visas, etc..where not too long ago this was a very difficult process if not nearly impossible....like AWs, with an opportunity to further educate themselves (with international recognition) and further their personal careers and endeavor, they would most easily choose the same path. The same goes for Ukrainian women. I think their number count was +700 K visas annually. Although their rate of approval for non-immigrant visa is not as high as Russia, it had in fact 'improved'.
 
As for RWs marrying European/Australian, I can't add to that since I do not know what their immigration counts are. Nor I do not know how that (marriage visas) compare with their respective visas...but even in the time of heydays, there's still a huge number of RWs/UWs who preferred Europe simply because of distance, or Australian, likely because of climate (speculation).
 
Mind you, I've not used the word 'desperate' on any of my posts in the thread, especially those I've exchanged with you on this subject. Maybe that alone is shading some, or a lot, of your discussion with me about this. Regions can have economic disparities that directly dictates a lot of these unions, but desparation is just but one component, not all. Having said that, it isn't diffcult to see, especially from one such as yourself (since you've been and seen this for a while now) how there's been so much more agencies involved in Russia back in the days compared to today. Tver Romance, Makshim, Brides of Ivanovo (Ring?), Face of Siberia, etc....just to name a very few...where are they now?
 
Comparing Russia today to Ukraine, you have but one guess why there seem to be a disparity of IMB women in these respective countries. Even EM. I remember back in the days ElenasModels hardly, if not at all, have Ukrainian women in their database. Now, much different. Even they can recognize this simple reality.

[Maxx2]

Modern career oriented WW  do not need to get married. Thats what I envy  most of all.

Actually the opposite is true. They desperately need a man for companionship in their old age.

[GQBlues]

 I would also be interested in knowing why you didn't "improve your product" and married a Russian lady instead. But please, don't deflect the conversation like you did with Eduard! 

Who said my 'product' need improving? Would you like to 'see' one of Eduard's sample client whose product desperately needed one, what the outcome of his dating expertise on that one yielded?
 
Just say the word and I'll pop that thread here quickly...

[Leelou]

Wow guys, a lot of interesting stuff written down here 


It's kinda difficult to nail down a very specific group of reasons why some men do go to the FSU to find wives, the same way it's not easy to define why some ladies want to find foreign husbands. Fact is, though it sounds a bit simplistic, there a lot of different cases and models.

Indeed some of those people go there following clichés and other stereotypes. Some men do really have issues and use this system as an escace to the problems they fac ein their dating life home. the same way some women do believe in the clichés about Western men and the possibility they "represent" (both material and sentimental).

Other people just include this type of dating into a more open approach. They do not focus on getting someone from the FSU/foreign husband, they are still open to date locally. This was my case and also the case of the majority of people I met along the way.
I met several Russian women of quality who gave up on their Internet/Foreign husband search because they were deceived by the kind of men they met during this experience. Most of them had good careers and a respectable level of life. Many of them have absolutely no intention to marry the first guy arrived, they are usually very knowledgeable and determinated about you they wanna find. there is no place in their reflection about just improving their economic level of life. And this is exactly why they give up after a while.

Once I asked my girl why she never married before meeting me. After all, she is pretty, 30 years old, good educaiton and job, as great family values. She told me she received several proposals during the last years, including from foreign men (one of them was an American by the way) who were pretty well established financially speaking.
She answered me it was just not enough for her. She wanted to find a man she could love. She told me that if she ever wanted to be married for money and security, it would have been done for years.
She is not the only one in the case. I discussed with others in this case, including another smart lady from Moscow. They all told me that if money and economy would have been the main question, they would all have been married by now, and that this kind of marriage was even very easy to get locally.

Now, how much is this in line with reality? I don't know. I suppose yes to a certain extent, I can only believe them and trust them.
But I discussed with many Ladies from totally different regions from the FSU and they all had the same kind of arguments, so...

Concerning the idea why some men do feel attracted by FSU mentality...
I doubt men do believe that Russian ladies are better than Western ones. At least I don't believe in this and I read many posts of people joining in this idea.
However, many men in this adventure tend to believe the model suits them better.
Russian ladies dont have more qualities and/or less flaws than Western ones, they just have different types of qualities and flaws. This sets up a model that is more enjoyable for certain types of men, they just feel more able to cope with this types of personality than the other ones.

I might sound a bit harsh now, and I don't know if I'm gonna be able to explain myself properly in english, but I sincerely belive it also has to do with the consequences of Feminism and its theory on western society. Feminism has brought a lot of good stuff because it helped giving a place to women in our society that they diserved to have. It allowed them a freedom to enjoy the right to choose the type of life they wanted to have and this is great. While it is still not perfect everywhere in the Western world nowadays, it still way better for a Lady to live today than 60 years ago when it comes to freedom of choice.
The thing is that this improvement didn't occured in collaboration with men. It was the consequence of both a psychological and philocophical fight. Because of this, to finally find a space to exist and survive, most of the Feminist theory had to destroy and negate parts of the traditional models of living together in a marriage/family.

That means that in the last decades, the image and the meaning of the figure of the father in the family suffered very much.
Suddenly a majority of men faced a situation where they were not supposed/allowed to be what during years they were taught to be. While excesses of this position were rightfully questioned and criticized, also many positive aspects of the traditional models were thrown out by the window.
This led to the realisation of many families where no models were in place, like if uncertainty became a new state of life.
It might have given the illusion to be better for a while, but now Western society realises that we face a whole new bunch of questions and problmes linked with this new situation. It doesn't only have to do with marriage and romance, but we can also see everyday how new generations have difficulty to cope with discipline and rules in society. Schools now face huge problems everywhere in Western societies and many sociologists mention the problem of the image of the father. In reality, many families today expect the school to both teach and educate, while normally the main part of education was the family's job.

What I mean by saying this, is that when I meet men involved in this FSU research, I often meet men who have difficulties to cope with this new models. They are not necessarily more traditionalist, they just feel more confortable in a situation where the model of the marriage, the roles in the family are more clearly defined. To do this, you don't necessarily have to apply a traditional model, but you certainly have to get back some of its elements. Or, in Western societies, a majority of things that are older or coming from older models are always denigrated and understood as backward-looking. Western societies tend to worship the new as always prevailing over the old. There is way less and less space for compromise and mix between several types of values. Simply because compromise is often perceived nowadays as weakness.

I see many men in this adventure who simply feel more confortable with eastern ladies because it's easier with them to reach this kind of compromises. You still have to work for it, but it's often easier. Their culture involves more partnership with men (even tough partnership also means they have their own interests and goals) and this is what sometimes is lacking with Western women, they tend to often fight more than needed to obtain what they want, sometimes to the point of breaking things just for the sake of showing strength anf character.

It's of course not the case for everybody. We will always find people in Western societies and in the FSU that will correspond to another model. There is always someone to contradict the observations just written down. But we can't deny that the strong changes in family of the last decades in Western societies had an impact on how people perceive their life, desire, and role in a marriage.

I personally see a lot of differences in the behavior of my Russian girl than any toher Western ones I've been with. I do not feel she's necessarily better, I just feel she is better for me and I have to admit with honesty that I am aprt of those men who do not recognize what they want in the model in majority in Western societies nowadays. That doesn't change the fact I am good and not fat. I naver had any problems dating locally, and I kept on dating locally even during my research on the Internet. But I can say that for my own experience, the differences between Western ladies and the FSU ones I met were quite clear (though I didn't enjoy the company of every one of them).

I was on the point of stopping my research on the internet when one year ago I finally entered in contact with my girl. As another user mentioned it previously here, I just gave it a try, followed the flow of the conversation and here I am one year later. But never did I ever transformed my online research in some form of obssession or espace for things that weren't satisfying locally.

There are so many different stories, different models, different poeple... It's very difficult to find any strong and stable general rule in this thing.

[GQBlues]

...Russia and Ukraine's economy are a very small factor in why today's Ukr/Rus women are looking for a foreign husband.   This business is not going to die during my lifetime, or eduards lifetime.  *The number one reason these Ukr/Rus women are looking for a foreign husband is due to the actions of a majority of Ukr/Rus men. Plain and simple.*  It's going to take two generations for these men to change, when they start to change, and this hasn't even started yet. ....

Jack-
 
I wish there was a way USCIS can make information on K-Visas showing the nationalities of these marriages. I know here in LA, and within the circle of Russian/Ukrainian couples we have...about half of the married couples are of the same nationality. RM/RW, UM/RW, UW/RM...the Mamba network was created by FSU folks for FSU folks. Social mediums today 'suggests' ex-pats courting/marrying folks from their own countries, or generally from the same region....
 
The fact RMs do have a well inventoried playpen than the average FSU-bound WM, and if what you say is true that this is the only reason why FSUWs marry foreigners; one must wonder why then would they (women) immigrate to marry their own kind, OR, for those already living here, make RMs as first choice over AMs?
 
BTW, the Philippines' MOB industries' largest petitioners ARE Filipino-Americans....Chinese, the same..etc.

[onlyFSU4me]

You are correct - not an answer.
 
You say 650 marriages.  If half came through the MOB industry, that is so small.   Keep in mind that more RW marry Europeans/Ozzies than Americans.
 

The week I spent in Kharkiv-Dnepropetrovsk, I guess 7-10 men came through Cindy Agency.  Not all were American men.   Let us assume that each met 3-7 women.  I believe at most only 5 Cindy Agency UW (probably less) had become engaged in the prior year.   So that puts the gross estimate of meetings leading to marriage at  less than one percent,   The actual ratio of meetings to marriages could perhaps be as small as 1000:1.   

 
Why so small?    If there is such economic desperation as you suggest, the UW are willing to marry almost anyone.  Did the UW find the men who showed up to be unworthy?  If so, they were not very desperate.  Or did the men discover AW ain't so bad?   

 In the last few months my wife has been helping 3 of her friends who dont have a computer with trying to find a foreign man. Since August only 1 man came to see 1 of her friends and that didnt work out. According to her the biggest problem is finding men who her friends are interested in and who they would consider starting a relationship with. Not really the actions of desperate women who are willing to marry anyone.


 I've only been active on these forums for about 1 1/2 years but already I have seen a few guys come on all excited about a FSU girl they met and were on there way to go see her. They post up until they make the trip and then you never heard from them again, or they came back with a crash and burn story.So I'm sure there are many AM who discovered it was easier to find an AW.


 I personally say that starting a relationship with a FSU woman is a lot more difficult, but the rewards are much greater if you succeed.


 

[onlyFSU4me]

Who said my 'product' need improving? Would you like to 'see' one of Eduard's sample client whose product desperately needed one, what the outcome of his dating expertise on that one yielded?
 
Just say the word and I'll pop that thread here quickly...

 EXACTLY! My product didn't need improving to find a western women either. I would say it had to improve more when looking for a FSU wife. As I stated before I believe a relationship with a FSU women is a lot more difficult and they have a lot strong personalities than AW. The reason why I looked to FSU was because I could not find want I was looking for at home, not that I found it but couldn't achieve it and decided to look to FSU because I thought it was easier!




 

[onlyFSU4me]

Having said that, we're left with the 'men' and how they function within this. How they relate to respective women in their societies through themselves. These men would do themselves a huge favor, AND, the foreign women they pursue and eventually marry, to take a long hard look at *why* they have to go abroad for a relationship. Work on that, instead of blindly laying the blame to some deluded excuses.
 
It just looks silly. Being married to woman from Russia, one who now clearly understands, appreciate, and are very much aware of the reality of her experience and her existence within the circle of the women in her present day professional US athmosphere; these excuses are just simply insult to her, and women in the same plight, intelligence.

 Ok, hopefully now you understand .... I went to FSU because I chose to, not because I felt I couldn't get by at home and hoped to do better there. I have said that I found most FSU women to be stronger charactered and a relationship with them is more difficult than with a western woman. If I really wanted to I could have "settled" for someone and married here at home... but I would not have been happy.


 So how does what I posted insult your Russian wife? Or my Ukrainian wife? If anything my saying that I could not find what I was looking for at home and went to look for it in FSU (where it was more difficult to achieve) should be a compliment, not an insult.

[Gator]

 
Mind you, I've not used the word 'desperate' on any of my posts in the thread, especially those I've exchanged with you on this subject. Maybe that alone is shading some, or a lot, of your discussion with me about this. Regions can have economic disparities that directly dictates a lot of these unions, but desparation is just but one component, not all.

You did not use the term "desperation."  However, your context seems to imply such. 
 
Let us consider the absurd.  The Eastern European Ivana Trump certainly has far greater wealth than me, hence creating more economic disparity than seen with most AM:RW couples.   However, if Ivana contacted me ( the "absurd" I mentioned), I  would not consider her as a replacement for my Cossack woman.   
 
If I did not have the Cossack woman in my life (analogous to Jack's position that some UW do not have good men), I would accept Ivana's invitation (she's younger than me and classy, so why not).  However, the economic disparity would not motivate me.  I have enough money.  Now some men would be interested in Ivana's wealth, and the analogy follows that an AM of means can encounter many gold diggers in the FSU.
 
What I am trying to say is that the FSU is not full of poor dyevs willing to marry anyone.  Poor dyevs usually usually have abundant pride to not go there.  Those without pride are to be avoided.
 
Returning to your original point.   Yes, one reason I kept returning to the FSU is that meeting young pretty women is easy.   I am not ashamed of that fact.  Developing a relationship with them is another matter.   Most had a good job  (I avoided the "desperate").  And I met a few RW whom I liked but did not like me.  It happens.
 
 

Having said that, it isn't diffcult to see, especially from
one such as yourself (since you've been and seen this for a while now) how
there's been so much more agencies involved in Russia back in the days compared
to today. Tver Romance, Makshim, Brides of Ivanovo (Ring?), Face of Siberia,
etc....just to name a very few...where are they now?

Yes, the improved economy is one reason as the average RM  now has jingle in his pocket.  The downturn in the American economy surely has reduced the number of men who can afford the venture.  Also, AM soon learn about the fallacy of the pay-by-letter business model.

 

Comparing Russia today to Ukraine, you have but one guess why there seem to be a disparity of IMB women in these respective countries. Even EM. I remember back in the days ElenasModels hardly, if not at all, have Ukrainian women in their database. Now, much different. Even they can recognize this simple reality.

Yes, the UA economy is not equal to Russia's.  Keep in mind, however, the relative ease of travel to UA.

[Eduard]

True. Like yourself, we're BIG losers, aren't we Eduard?

Please speak for yourself. If you consider yourself a BIG loser, that's your prerogative, you sure come across like one sometimes. I think you and I are very different. I left a legacy in the music business and I was pretty successful in it. Not as successful as I would have liked to be but I made a good living doing something I loved. My work, my business were also my passion and I made a good living at it too. My albums are still selling on most digital stores like iTunes, Amazon, etc. which provides me with residual income to this day. My first AW wife was a beautiful Midwestern girl and basically a good person, she still calls me her best friend... I also have a great happy family now - a beautiful wife and two beautiful daughters. I have no debt a nice home on 5 acres of land and 2 nice cars. I'm not rich but my family has all that we need and most importantly we have love. I have good friends and mentors, people that I respect and who respect me. I have happy clients and I enjoy my work... Me, a loser? are you drunk?!

But I do believe you're far bigger though. At least I never tried to make money out of this biz to feed my family, yes?

 
Let me tell you something, when I first decided to look for a wife in the FSU, like many others I searched and found all those MOB agency sites. However being a native Russian speaker it took me only a couple of days to realise that it was nothing but scam. So then I found local Russian dating sites, went on them and found my wife in a matter of about 3 months. I then helped a couple of American friends of mine find their wives using the same method. I saw a niche and an opportunity for a business and I made a successful "win-win" business out of it who's success is based on honest, ethical business practices and client's satisfaction. This is the American way and if you think there's something wrong with it you are living in the wrong country.
And just to clarify things for you: I don't make money "out of this biz". I help men avoid dealing with "this biz" -  the corrupt mail order bride business that you are referring to. I help them bypass middlemen and deal with the women directly. 
I enjoy what I do: I enjoy helping people find love and happiness, I enjoy travelling and seeing places, meeting new people and making friends, I provide excellent service and I make good money at it. If you want to call yourself a big loser, fine with me, you sure do sound like a miserable person sometimes, but don't put me in the same category with yourself.
The fact that you see what I do "beneath you" and how you address other people on this forum shows low self esteem issues IMO.

 
Seriously, what would you do if Russia's (even Ukraine's) economy continues to improve and renders this biz null and void? Learn Mandarin? Tagalog?

 
Your way of thinking is seriously flawed. You think that Russian woman's decision to marry a WM is mainly based on hoping to improve her economic status? Are you speaking from your own experience? Sure seems that way! My experience is quite different. And my clients also marry women who are not trying to escape some "harsh economic conditions". The last marriage - the woman owns her very nice apartment in Russia that she is now renting out she sold her brand new Toyota and she has other assets that I'm not going to discuss here. Not quite economically challenged "Russian Bride" that you are trying to depict here.
The reality is that the biggest challenge these women face in Russia is finding a decent, family oriented, marriage minded man. Some of them will marry a WM if they see those qualities in him and can see having a family with him.

If you really are 'trying' to help men who can't help themselves get dates and broaden their respective horizons, why not do so in Estonia, Czech, Slovakia and places like it as well that have strong Slavic heritage but are far more economically improved than the subject places...After all, you often boast how you do not surf the IMB sites women but rather normal social/dating sites....
 
Is this the 'difference' in mentality you infer?

Oh boy, as usual you assume too much and sound condescending and disrespectful to other people... but I guess that's your style, to put down other men so you can feel better about your own shortcomings... Just FYI: most of my clients have no problems dating at home and the reason they decide to look for a RW is because of RW's beauty and a very different mentality from AW, something you chose to deny exists (which is pretty unbelievable considering that you are married to a RW...).
What is it that you are accusing me of now? That I exclude the Baltic states and Eastern Europe from my search?
As usual, you are wrong! I don't exclude any country from my searches and my clients have communicated with Russian women who live in Eastern Europe, the Baltics, Western Europe, North and South Americas, Africa, Middle East and Far East. I do different types of searches and some of them not area or country specific. We look for the right woman rather than "the right place" and she may happen to live on the other side of the world or right next door.

[GQBlues]

You did not use the term "desperation."  However, your context seems to imply such....

Regions with appreciative economies tend to have better opportunities to make for a 'better' standard of living. 'Better' standard of living make it a bit more plausible for a sound home life. This is an elemental fact. It doesn't mean people of Somalia cannot or doesn't have chances for a healthy home life, but not without tremendous challenges. Given an opportunity or chance to choose - the general populace will undoubtedly choose a situation where they can explore greater chances of wealth, or making this a bit more conservative, explore their opportunities to make a 'better' future for their families.


If my intention was to imply 'desperation', then I would've easily deferred to our southern neighbors and their plight up north to support my point. It is NOT a coincidence that countries and regions involved in the MOB happens to be countries and regions who are economically challenged either now or in the recent past. You can debate this, sugar coat it any way you want, that fact stands and stands firmly on its own.


The point of discussion here (contention) was the silly misguided, deluded notion that somehow the difference between RWs to their western sisters are that FSUWs are more marriage minded. I suppose to a certain extent that's true - ONLY - if you completely disregard their societal conditions and what impact it has to its young. Whether it's family pressure, society's stigma, or just plain small town hopelessness. Yes, in many ways it's akin to smalltown USA. Folks marry their high school sweetheart because, well, what else is there to do in a smalltown once you become an adult? Yup, marry and start a family...it's little wonder why men and women within these smalltowns bail for 'better' opportunities and life choices elsewhere. Thus the early flood of Russian brides from the early 90s to the decreased scale of today. Do not negate the affect of that country's economic state within the same period. As the economy improved, Russian bride biz fizzled.

What I am trying to say is that the FSU is not full of poor dyevs willing to marry anyone.  Poor dyevs usually usually have abundant pride to not go there.  Those without pride are to be avoided.

I tend to agree with you Gator...but what do you think this implies...? How then can you explain it considering your stated opinion above? For this to be this blatant denotes far more in numbers than just a small sampling, no?

http://www.cis.org/north/EPI-J1-visa-report

I recently went on a Bachelor's party in Vegas with one for my closest friends. Yup, it had to involve Spearmint Rhino, what else...you'd be surprised how many of them responded to Kak Dela.

[GQBlues]

Blah, blah, blah

Eduard-


If you handled your music biz in the same fashion you're handling your IMB biz, then I am not surprised why you bailed the music biz. If you've been so successful doing what it is you do, you wouldn't be so hard up to nauseatingly sound like a cheap used car salesman pitching your trade every chance you get. It's proving counter to your silly assertion.


Successful businesses enjoy not having to tout their ware ad nauseum. They simply let their own success speak for themselves. They certainly do not advertise faux pictures of success in their testimonials like losers do, you know.


Now, if you feel you'd like to venture deeper into your expertise and finally show everyone your wizardy for picking 'pure', 100% honest-to-goodness women your client can bank their money and time with, we can begin anytime you want. You have the video for it, don't you?


Your call...

[Gator]

GQ,

You and I are probably closely aligned in our thinking and we should not  debate minor points.   

My shortcoming is that I write mostly from my firsthand experience.     While it is 10 years long, it is not comprehensive.   For example, I never dated the primary target group of RW, namely young single RW without children.  The women I dated tended to be sophisticated, well mannered, many with advanced degrees, experienced enough to have some seasoning, and all having a decent life albeit not free of stress. 

The men at RWD are fairly diverse yet not inclusive of all AM who venture to the FSU.  The sex tourists, social misfits, keyboard romeos, etc. do not participate at RWD.   Even the RW wives in America tend to divide into social groups, e. g., happy RW avoid those who complain. 

So my experience is limited.   In other words, your opinion could be more representative of the whole than my opinion.   Who knows?  I am reminded of the fable of six blind Indians describing an elephant. 
 
Thanks for the link.   That was hilarious.  One USCIS requirement for a work visa is a shortage of qualified labor for the intended jobs.  IMO the average RW is certainly more qualified for that job than the average AW.      
 
American bachelor party with RW strippers!   Sounds like a blast.  Kak de la, dobra vecher, etc.  What was their response to mynet?  I don't hear of such around here.  Socal is another world.
 
 
 

[Eduard]

Eduard-


If you handled your music biz in the same fashion you're handling your IMB biz, then I am not surprised why you bailed the music biz. If you've been so successful doing what it is you do, you wouldn't be so hard up to nauseatingly sound like a cheap used car salesman pitching your trade every chance you get. It's proving counter to your silly assertion.


Successful businesses enjoy not having to tout their ware ad nauseum. They simply let their own success speak for themselves. They certainly do not advertise faux pictures of success in their testimonials like losers do, you know.


Now, if you feel you'd like to venture deeper into your expertise and finally show everyone your wizardy for picking 'pure', 100% honest-to-goodness women your client can bank their money and time with, we can begin anytime you want. You have the video for it, don't you?


Your call...

another cheap shot, putting down,  insults, blah, blah, blah... you are a funny guy! Like when you accused me of stealing my own photo (from my own site! LOL) Quite a big mouth you got making the accusations but when I suggested a little $$$ bet you bailed right away... but still no apology! You obviously got issues, deal with them or they will eventually catch up with you... they always do!  Putting you back on ignore where you belong!

[Donhollio]

So why did you go to Russia to find a wife?

 I went to Russia to take in the friendly hospitality and sunny disposition of the locals. Failing that, I flew in a little hottie in from Uzbekistan, and fell in love in the dead of a mild winter in Volgograd.
I also wanted a girl with a sexy accent. 
 
 

  Why not to start with RW who are already in the U.S. or Canada? 2010 brought the largest number of independent skilled immigrants to Canada, who landed here because they have a chance to establish themselves economically in Canada. Most are couples, but there is still a number of single women, with to without kids. 

  That would be so nice & easy! No visas, no expensive flights, crappy hotels, scorching heat, no heat, bad water, no water, lights on, lights off. Who would trade all that to fly a few hours and meet a real live in country smokinkova?
 Guys I have met Ms. Lily, she's the bomb! She's fit and mighty fine, and whoever she takes as her man will be a very lucky!

[Patagonie]

No. You simply make youself more marketable. If you understand that it's a competitive market, then be competitive by improving your 'product'.

Improving the product (your product) is one of the first think you have to do, and i did. A lot of guys who are coming in FSU think that dating  FSU women will help their lacking ability with women relationships. Of course they are fool.
Upgrading  your product give you more choice and a wider range of opportunities with western women, but unfortunately their demeanor is the SAME. It doesn't change anything. I have dated AW between minus 10 and minus 7 than my age, between 8.2 and 8.5, some highly educated but the problem was the same : their demeanor. To make short : for them a man is optionnal and in theory and in practice men are not in their priorities.

[Bruce lee]

OK, first post! Hi Guys

Too many Western men who are quite average in looks and everything else think that somehow they have this imaginary "special value" because they can provide a Russian woman the way to citizenship in his country. This way of thinking is flawed and dangerous, because you just might get what you wish for - a nowdays rare woman who for some reason is interested in obtaining citizenship in your country and will use you as a stepping stone.

Hi Ed, sorry I've not had a chance to read every page here so I doubt I've mentioned anything ground breaking, but thought I would chip in here!

Firstly, absolutely bang-on statement above (and the entire OP)!

I've always considered that having unrealistic expectations has to be one of the most popular reasons for failure in this FSU dating thing, however I would suggest it comes more from the guys personal "mindset", some will not listen to the obvious despite what they have read or been told and steam full ahead time-after-time and continue to make the same mistakes until they possibly get lucky or just give up! In the reverse you have many who've never read these boards or listened to anybody else's advice and sail through this endeavor using common sense and solid judgement. E.g already dating firmly within their aesthetic, intellectual and financial etc league!