Special K and the Yankee ~ Cloggie

[BdHvA]

Gator, Sorry to be unclear and confusing. Yes both parents live in Zhytomyr. When Katarina had her surgery to remove the rod the daughter stayed a fair amount of the time with the father. He has some political - police job there. Katarina has told him that she is seeing some one but not given any more information than that.

For what it is worth Special K and I agreed if we three were together than the daughter Viktoria would be raised either bi or multi lingual with Russian being one language.

Thank you for the rest of your comments and they resonant well with my feelings and opinions. I sort had hoped some one would have a very clever way to do this. (get control of the woman's child) What is odd in the initial stage of talking I tried to avoid women who if they had children did not have control of them. I guess life and love has other things planned for us.

Kindly, BdHvA

[groovlstk]

I sort had hoped some one would have a very clever way to do this. (get control of the woman's child)

In an earlier post you stated that the father is involved in his daughter's life.
 
Do you have children? How would you feel if someone dating your ex was looking for a "clever" way to spirit your daughter 5000 miles away and out of your life?
 
"Clever" in this context means sitting down and discussing this with the father. Not offering him a bribe. Not scheming for ways to get a passport stamp without his knowing.
 

[calmissile]

BdHvA,

1.  Just ignore the 'smart asses' with negative comments.  We have them on this board also, just fewer of them.
2.  I think your original question was best answered by Lily.  It made the most common sense.
3.  I hope that your comment about wrestling away the daughter was not meant in the way you phrased it.   A father that is active in a child's life and providing financial support should not have his daughter spirited away by a new man in her mothers life.

It seems to me that now the surgery issue is resolved, your biggest challenge is to determine if you, your girlfriend, and the child can find a solution that will allow you to live as a family that is satisfactory to the father.

We don't know his attitude about this at this point.  The advice you were given up thread to let your G/F discuss it with him is sound advice.  You don't even want to be in the picture.  At some point, you and your G/F must decide whether your relationship is advanced to the point of addressing the issue of moving the child from the locality of the father.  It seems a little premature at this point.

In many/most cases, the fathers are not active in the children's lives and getting permission is not a big issue.  Your case seems to be different and may be much more difficult to resolve.  I personally went through this process and the father granted permission, after some gut-wrenching negotiations with the mother.   But in this case, he was not active in the child's life.

You may want to consider whether the constraint of the custody issue is worth the stress and difficulties you will need to overcome.

Glad to see you posting on this forum.  Do not get discouraged.  There are a lot of great people over here.

[BdHvA]

In an earlier post you stated that the father is involved in his daughter's life.
 

Yes and I understand the idea of moving a young child (not yet) 3 years old to a new culture. Perhaps clever is an unfortunate choice of words I meant it in a context of not having a messy or contentious battle. For what it is worth the picture of the ex and father is more complicated and ugly than I indicated.

o everyone understands further I have made it very clear to Special K that under no circumstances do I want the child to forget or lose her Russian/Ukraine heritage. Katarina is gratefull for this. I am fairly certain that she wants to be sure that we are a good we as we three before she confronts and discusses the idea of leaving Ukraine to be with me, with her ex. She also has indicated that at times the ex - does not care at all about his child.

I have three children and if an ex remarried I would want to know that the children would be nurtured as children as I would do with Viktoria. I also have made it clear that any choice for Viktoria lies with Katarina and I will respect her decision. I will treat her daughter as my own so far as that is possible.

[groovlstk]

Yes and I understand the idea of moving a young child (not yet) 3 years old to a new culture. Perhaps clever is an unfortunate choice of words I meant it in a context of not having a messy or contentious battle.

 

[BdHvA]

So next week back to Ukraine for four nights, again to stay in Zhytomyr. I will meet the daughter Viktoria as well as her best friend Viktoria. Katarina is back at work and has said she can not be full time with me. I have asked her to organize Russian lessons and further I can work on line.

Viktoria the best friend now lives in Switzerland, and is going to be married in June. Katarina is the brides maid or perhaps maid of honour. Special K asked if I would like to join them in the capitol for the ceremony and party. In that the date is planned at the same time as Art Basel, no problem. In fact I would go irregardless just to be together. I see this as a positive step and I am excited.

What does worry me while Katarina’s mother is aware of me, she does not approve of me. Further Katarina does not want to introduce me to her. In fact according to Special K she is only happy with her grand daughter. The brother of Katarina who paid for the operation lives in the middle of Canada and has is own family there. He has rarely returned to Ukraine to see either mother or sister. So the mother might very well feel she is being abandoned.

My own opinion and feeling is to trust Katarina and see what develops.

If others have insights and opinion put them out there.

[Gator]

What does worry me while Katarina’s mother is aware of me, she does not approve of me. Further Katarina does not want to introduce me to her. In fact according to Special K she is only happy with her grand daughter. The brother of Katarina who paid for the operation lives in the middle of Canada and has is own family there. He has rarely returned to Ukraine to see either mother or sister. So the mother might very well feel she is being abandoned.

What explanation does Special K give you?  Is it plausible?  If you are having a good relationship, she will speak the truth.
 
Does the brother speak English?  If so, why not call him and discuss everything.  Although he has been gone for a long time, he still should be aware of the undercurrents in the family.
 
 

[BdHvA]

Gator,

There are those things in my opinion you discuss over Skype and those that you wait until you are with the person. Perhaps it is upbringing but so am I.

Since the brother lives far to the west of Toronto and has for more than ten years, he must speak perfect English. He is a senior person of the computer/IT infrastructure or so it sounds to a University there.

Special K and I have discussed her brother and her reply to a question I posed was telling. I asked "would your brother approve of me, and you and me?" Katarina's response was yes if I was happy.

Sorry if this seems like tooth pulling but I am on one side confident and the other side wondering how to proceed. My best guide is advice I receive from forum's and my own common sense.

BdHvA

[Faux Pas]

Gator,

There are those things in my opinion you discuss over Skype and those that you wait until you are with the person. Perhaps it is upbringing but so am I.

Since the brother lives far to the west of Toronto and has for more than ten years, he must speak perfect English. He is a senior person of the computer/IT infrastructure or so it sounds to a University there.

Special K and I have discussed her brother and her reply to a question I posed was telling. I asked "would your brother approve of me, and you and me?" Katarina's response was yes if I was happy.

Sorry if this seems like tooth pulling but I am on one side confident and the other side wondering how to proceed. My best guide is advice I receive from forum's and my own common sense.

BdHvA

Just a suggestion; If K's mother is very unfavorable and cold for you to the point it creates a problem, asking K to perhaps facilitate a conversation between you and the brother is a good idea and might enlighten you somewhat as to how to thaw Mother toward you.

There's an old saying "If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy". She might be some crusty old babuska that no one can thaw but, you putting forth the effort is worth a lot of mileage to them all. If she stays an opponent, she might put up a hurdle you can't jump.  FWIW

[BdHvA]

Back in Zhytomyr! A long drive from Kyiv. I tend doubt the highway will be finished by Euro 2012, but they are working 24/7.

Spoke for quite a while last night and now waiting for Special K to join me for lunch. I will see and hope.

You all get to read 

[BdHvA]

A long lunch together, and it came out that Katarina wanted to live together but has no desire to be married to me.

This is a first in my expierence in the former Soviet Union. Perhaps it will the Cloggie option for us.

Still not sure what to think or do.

[ML]

Sorry, I don't know which country you are a citizen of . . . so my question relates to whether you can bring this gal permanently into your country without marriage.

If yes, then the lack of marriage has a lot to be said for it.

I focused on your country because, with rare exceptions, it would not be possible to duplicate your earnings potential (even when adjusted for cost of living) in Ukraine.

[BdHvA]

ML, Yes living together has advantages in some respects. I think part of her fear is due to the fact that her divorce was only granted six months ago. For Katarina it would be matter of setting her up as an consultant and let her work as she wishes in Amsterdam.

In fact I only have an American passport. BUT I have the ability to work and live anywhere in the European Union. I am a native English speaker (though my English teacher would disagree) as well as fluent in Dutch, basic French and German.

[BdHvA]

Back from Ukraine - even though actual time together was brief Katarina is a wonderful woman. I wrote her the following:

От двери до двери (время, затраченное на поездки) я затратил около 12 часов, а время, которое мы провели вместе, было где-то вдвое меньше. Ты меня предупреждала, я понимаю, что не надо беспокоиться и расстраиваться. В какой-то степени мне не хочется начинать отношения, только для того чтобы узнать, что я что-то типа промежуточной остановки. Я удивился, когда оказалось, что ты не хочешь выходить замуж, но будучи в Голландии, я отнёсся к этому спокойно. Однако когда ты сказала, что мы можем быть друзьями, если наши отношения не сложатся, я встревожился.

Когда мы были вместе во Львове, я увидел тебя с другой стороны и многое понял, а особенно в Житомире на прошлой неделе. Я тебя по-своему люблю и вижу в тебе качества, которые мне кажутся прекрасными и к тому же хорошо подходят мне. Однако я подозреваю, что у тебя есть свои опасения. Отчасти, как мне кажется, поскольку ты женщина и склонна быть осторожнее. У тебя есть Виктория, о которой надо думать. Проблема твоего бывшего мужа и твоей бабушки. Твоя ситуация не простая и не приятная. Я почувствовал это, и как минимум, не хотел усугублять.

Я считаю, и всерьёз, что любовь между двоими делает каждого сильнее. Мы очень хорошо подходим друг другу. К тому же я считаю, что две разных культуру взаимно обогащают. Мне нравятся украинцы, особенно необыкновенная К. Голландия придётся тебе весьма по вкусу, и я думаю, ты тут расцветёшь. Поверь мне. Но в какой-то момент тебе надо сделать выбор. Нам повезло, что у меня есть возможность провести с тобой время, чтобы разобраться. Так что тебе решать.

Скажи мне, что ты думаешь.

Твой А

She said she would reply by e.Mail on Tuesday instead of via Skype but I have heard nothing. I suspect what I wrote was to hard and direct. Such are these relations.

[Boethius]

Note - This topic has been moved and renamed.

[Belvis]

Back from Ukraine - even though actual time together was brief Katarina is a wonderful woman. I wrote her the following:

Так что тебе решать...

I don't know the situation. Just a short comment on "Так что тебе решать" (So it's your turn to make decision). May sounds somehow harsh for UW -  categoric push for her to find out solution for uneasy situation.

[steste1122]

Why would I move to a city where the balance is in favour of the father.

I had hoped that some members here would have positive and constructive suggestions.

Bribing the father is no problem but will happen in 10 years? His daughter will discover the reality and where will every one stand?

My $.02.  Take a chill pill dude, I read the whole thread and most everyone so far has been giving good, sound advice BASED ON THE INFORMATION GIVEN.  Instead of suggesting that members are offering negative and unconstructive suggestions, you could just simply take the opportunity to fill in a blank for those attempting to supply positive suggestions.  I hope you get the answers to your situation.

[mendeleyev]

No matter the age, if the father is involved that will be part of her decision. I can't blame her, it is a legitimate part of the decision as you'd want the same courtesy were a woman about to take your child far away.

Forget much of the negative things you hear about Russian/Ukrainian men, especially from his ex-wife. There are always two sides to an unfortunate story and the little girl is not a pawn.

Do what I did--get to know the father of the child that she brought into our marriage. To hear it from my wife and her Mom, he was the devil incarnate. Well, the devil incarnate and I are pretty good friends these days and much of that is because of how I've treated him such as being considerate when it came to his legitimate rights as a father.

From primary school to a second degree at MGU, that hasn't hurt my relationship with the "little one" either, and this past summer when she met an older dude getting off the Metro at Tsaritsyno Park to introduce the old man to the new man in her life and to chaperone the two "boys" as they spent the day walking/talking in the park, guess who was getting off the train? Yours truly.

[BdHvA]

Привет Арий! Я надеюсь Игорь сможет перевести для тебя этот текст в полном содержании и смысле. Прости, что не отвечала на твои сообщения и долго тянула с ответом. Я хотела принять решения без какого либо влияния на меня из вне. Это было жестоко с моей стороны, но более жестоко было бы принять неправильное решение. Я всегда говорила и продолжаю тебе говорить, что ты потрясающий человек. Я могу учиться у тебя очень многому. Мой разум говорит мне, что ты был бы прекрасным мужем и отцом. И мне нравиться проводить время с тобой. Но есть одно большое НО!... Как бы я не старалась, я не могу увидеть нас вместе через 5-10 лет. И наша разница в возрасте это одна из причин. К сожалению, для меня это имеет значение, как оказалось. И самое главное НО, это то, что я не смогла разжечь в себе тот огонь в сердце, которого ты достоин. Я много думала и взвешивала все ЗА и ПРОТИВ. Ты очень чувствительный человек и моё равнодушие будет тебя очень ранить. Ты мне стал дорог за это время и я не хочу причинять тебе боль. Спасибо тебе за всё и прости если сможешь. Я буду счастлива, если ты сможем просто продолжать общаться, но я пойму, если ты не захочешь меня больше знать. Часть меня всегда будет с тобой.
Целую и обнимаю.
Твой друг, Катерина

Back to square one. I must admit I admire her honesty and forthrightness.

[Daveman]

Sorry to hear about what is certainly disappointment for you, but glad you didn't marry into a situation where the woman really did not love you.  I think this is what she's been saying all along though, isn't it?  Yep, back to square one - with more experience. 


And yes, her letter seems to show a lady with class.  I can see why you like her...

[BdHvA]

Wish to thank those who had insight and comments. I will access my reality and see if I have the will try this again.

[calmissile]

BdHvA

Sorry to read that things did not work out for you.  It's a bummer to waste so much time to eventually find out she does not love you.

At least you did  not go through all the expenses, time, and emotional trauma that you would have if she had married you  "Hoping to fall in love later".

[BdHvA]

Sorry to read that things did not work out for you.  It's a bummer to waste so much time to eventually find out she does not love you.

At least you did  not go through all the expenses, time, and emotional trauma that you would have if she had married you  "Hoping to fall in love later".

Doug, Yes it is a pity    (bummer for the west side of America). Time will tell who made the correct choice.

While down I am not going to wallow in a pity party. But I want to think and reconsider some options and assumptions. A friend here on the other side (CT) is introducing me to his girl friends best friend on Tuesday, so on go the dancing shoes and we will see.

[OlgaH]

Но есть одно большое НО!... Как бы я не старалась, я не могу увидеть нас вместе через 5-10 лет. И наша разница в возрасте это одна из причин.

BdHvA, what age gap did you have with your Special K? How old are you?

[BdHvA]

BdHvA, what age gap did you have with your Special K? How old are you?

18 years or 17 years and some 363 days.