Divorced RW experience of dating in the US.

[Misha]

Misha, life and interactions between man/woman is more complicated.

People have a tendency to make life complicated    I wager there are more "I only wish I had know she was interested in me..." regrets, than "if only women would stop letting me know they are interested in me" complaints    Sure, no guy wants to be stalked or be taken out shopping for locales for weddings on second dates, but I would say many men would appreciate a hint that a woman is open to being invited out on a date

[Misha]

Due diligence, check for ring or just easy conversation and segue into the question, "are you married?" It is not an offensive question or too direct when asked tactfully. Most men, if they are married will likely be flattered she asked. If they aren't married, it's game on and the butt sniffin then shall commence 

Throw in a flirty "a great guy like you must have a wife" comment, and I am sure most men would get the hint and respond accordingly if they are interested    My point is simple, if it is brought up naturally in a conversation, the woman will be able to get the info, whether or not he is honest is another question, and he will get the hint that she is interested. She loses nothing, he may get a date 

[Gator]

Isn't it a bad question to ask? Afraid that the counterpart will try his best to wrap up the conversation, after he hears this from a woman.

Yes, it is bad to just walk up and ask the question.  Pardon me Misha,  I consider it weak to say   "a great guy like you must have a wife" even after you have talked for a while.  Yet, it is easy to find out if a man is interested in you.   

Lily, I can not imagine you having a problem starting a conversation.   Once you get a conversation going, it should be easy without ever asking him if he is available   Just bat your eyes, smile, etc.    If he seems friendly, you should drop a comment that suggests you are available.  For example, if at a social affair, and it is not your neighborhood, state that you are not ready to return to your room/flat and inquire if he knows of a lively place/exotic restaurant/blues club/etc. .   If it is your city, simply ask him if he wants to form a group and go somewhere lively.   The dilemma comes if the man is married yet is attracted to you.  Your call. 

Lily, is there a cultural barrier  at work or is this your personality? When I worked in Iran decades ago I frequently attended  social events.  Young Iranian women usually were around, and they usually had some cultural inhibitions  even though most had been educated in the West.  They would not say much but sometimes would ask me, "Are you available?"  My response: was to smile and ask, "Available for what?"

[GQBlues]

...or just approach this in the same manner as they've always done in Russ....err, umm.....OK, nevermind.

[Misha]

I consider it weak to say   "a great guy like you must have a wife" even after you have talked for a while.

Don't worry Gator, I wouldn't have been interested in dating you 

[Lily]

Yes, it is bad to just walk up and ask the question.  Pardon me Misha,  I consider it weak to say   "a great guy like you must have a wife" even after you have talked for a while.  Yet, it is easy to find out if a man is interested in you.   

Lily, I can not imagine you having a problem starting a conversation.   Once you get a conversation going, it should be easy without ever asking him if he is available   Just bat your eyes, smile, etc.    If he seems friendly, you should drop a comment that suggests you are available.  For example, if at a social affair, and it is not your neighborhood, state that you are not ready to return to your room/flat and inquire if he knows of a lively place/exotic restaurant/blues club/etc. .   If it is your city, simply ask him if he wants to form a group and go somewhere lively.   The dilemma comes if the man is married yet is attracted to you.  Your call. 

Lily, is there a cultural barrier  at work or is this your personality? When I worked in Iran decades ago I frequently attended  social events.  Young Iranian women usually were around, and they usually had some cultural inhibitions  even though most had been educated in the West.  They would not say much but sometimes would ask me, "Are you available?"  My response: was to smile and ask, "Available for what?"

Gator. I am not sure whether it is cultural or individual, but I could never imagine asking any man straight about his family status. The reason is because he may suspect that I may be interested in him, which would put him in an unpleasant situation if he is not available. Even if he is single, it does not mean that he might be interested in the woman who asks this question. Asking this question straight is a very bad move from a woman.
The thread is not actualy mine but Vasilisa's   my life in Toronto is not that bad at all 

[Vasilisa]

Well.
I decided to tell you something about Match.

till now I've written to the men I found clicking on mutual match search results.
Today I decided to do reserse match, it means that these men are looking for what I mentioned in my profile.

Guess which types of men are coming out.

[Vasilisa]

Vasilia, if you are still reading here, maybe you need to change your profile.  Something short and witty.   Something that would compel the men you like to write you (or would interest them if you wrote first). 

Do you enjoy creative writing?   As an example, I found this personal ad hilarious, although I would question the women who would respond.  It has been around a while, and supposedly written by an Australian man:
 
Wanted A tall well-built woman with good
reputation, who can cook frogs
legs, who appreciates a good fuc-
schia garden, classic music, and tal-
king without getting too serious.


Interested?

Then please only read lines 1, 3 and 5.

Still interested?

Call me at ...... 8250-0327

Gator, you are right, I am obviously doing something wrong.
I mentioned all my educational degrees and hobbies and my desire to find a serious guy with great family values but it doesn't work for some reason.
I obviously need to write something funny and not too "scary'

[Vasilisa]

Too funny!!!!

I think Gator is a genius, that's exactly the way I need to make the profile.
PS: Gator, are you married?!

[Daveman]

Guess which types of men are coming out.

Martians? 

[Faux Pas]

Guess which types of men are coming out.

If it's anything like the women that come out on match (a number of years ago now) it's the dregs, alcoholics, and women with some serious baggage.

Vasilisa, Might I suggest keep your profile light. No long essays, no emphasis on your degrees. A couple of nice modest photos. A short synopsis of,  what you enjoy doing for fun, why you are single and why you are looking, how far in distance you'd like you suitors. Profiles on match IMHO, should be short, sweet and to the point. Most first communications are based on the age/physical. Get past the first  several communications then, get inquisitive. FWIW

[Gator]

I think Gator is a genius, that's exactly the way I need to make the profile.

I did not write it; found it on the Internet.    It made me laugh, especially after experiencing on line dating and reading hundreds of boring profiles.

I wonder if the man who wrote it is only interested in sex.  I can understand that many women would think him creative and clever, and would want to know more about him.  In contrast, a man reading such a profile from a woman  would want to contact her for sex, caring little about what she thinks and believes.   

Question:  Do you feel that you are still Russian in most ways?   Or do you feel that you are a Russian woman becoming more and more American, yet keeping a Russian soul? 

The average American man is not sophisticated enough to appreciate what is special about being Russian. So maybe you should not mention "Russian" in your profile.  The fact will certainly come out, especially if you have an accent.   Your Russian heritage is something to be proud of.  I believe that your being   "Russian" is something that your ideal man would cherish, once he understands what it means.   You have to teach him.

I will never forget a RW telling me during my first trip to Russia (10 years ago), "Gator, Russian women are sweet on the outside, yet strong on the inside.   Don't be so gentle with us."   

Is there an old Russian saying that relates to the type of man you seek?
 

PS: Gator, are you married?!

      I live alone; however, my marital status is always changing.     I have two unmarried sons, 27 and 31.    They know RW, namely my ex-wife and my Cossack woman, who has traveled from Russia several times to meet me here in Florida.  Her 23-yo daughter lives here while attending the local university.  She invites her RW students to my home frequently.  Much eye candy.     Yes, my sons know RW.
 

[Vasilisa]

If it's anything like the women that come out on match (a number of years ago now) it's the dregs, alcoholics, and women with some serious baggage.

Exactly. They look like "rednecks" in their worst meaning.
I don't understand how they can look for the women who are interested in golf,  opera and classical music.
To me it looks like all they need is a gallon of beer, a couch, TV and a loud fat woman with a crude sense of humour.
How could Match link us?!

[Misha]

       I live alone; however, my marital status is always changing.     

You are given a compliment and asked if you are married and you already begin gushing, yet you posted:

Pardon me Misha,  I consider it weak to say   "a great guy like you must have a wife" even after you have talked for a while. 

 

[Vasilisa]

Question:  Do you feel that you are still Russian in most ways?   Or do you feel that you are a Russian woman becoming more and more American, yet keeping a Russian soul? 

Gator, I feel like 100% Russian. I don't feel American at all.
One thing that has changed is that I am more open and treat all people the way I only treat friends in Russia.

In my profile I don't mention I am a Russian. I used to do it before but the dating process didn't go the way I had expected. The first thing people asked me is if I was in Russia (though my profile and the message itself clearly stated that I was in the US), how long I had been staying here, what my status was, why I had come and it was obvious that the men were afraid that I was going to use them for a green card or something. So I stopped mentioning my being from Europe in the profile. It's not that I am hiding it, I am just moving  it to the next stage when I am having a phone conversation.

[Gator]

You are given a compliment and asked if you are married and you already begin gushing, yet you posted:

My dear Misha, irony is a key ingredient in the spicy salsa for my soul. 

[Gator]

I don't understand how they can look for the women who are interested in golf,  opera and classical music.

Not a mystery.   

Regarding golf, rednecks do play golf.  Fortunately, most play on public courses.   They tend to be laughed at, yet some of them have done very well, even winning the most prestigious tournaments.   Do you know John Daly?  He is the ultimate redneck and his life is a basketcase; however, he has won the British Open.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/11/2008/03/daly.jpg&imgrefurl=http://deadspin.com/john-daly/&h=320&w=288&sz=17&tbnid=Sazl4nG5MZjtbM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=81&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djohn%2Bdaly%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=john daly&docid=BcOqhOaL25qTVM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-rZTT6TtCOPv0gG19t39DQ&sqi=2&ved=0CFAQ9QEwBQ&dur=2980
 
Regarding opera and classical music, no mystery.   It must have been multiple choice and they don't read so well.    They see "Opera" and check it, thinking it  the Grand ole Opry.   (Opry is how a redneck pronounces opera, http://www.opry.com/).    They were interested in music classes, so they checked it too.   

Vasilisa, what now seems inexplicable  will eventually become clear.  Stay determined, be patient and find humor in this craziness.  It is life, and there is no better blessing.  Enjoy your life.
 

[Misha]

My dear Misha, irony is a key ingredient in the spicy salsa for my soul.

I am glad that you did recognize the irony, unfortunately I don't have a hats off smiley her 

[vwrw]

I would not recommend to initiate contact with a  man unless he explicitly indicates in his profile that he welcomes women’s initiatives, something like “say hi if you are interested.” If I understood correctly, men can see that you have visited their profile and many check who was looking at their profile, so use it to your advantage. Give them a week after you visited their profile, if they do not contact you, change your pictures and visit their profile again. You may catch their attention on second or third trial. If this did not work, but you really like the guy, then ask him about something. For example, you would say -I encountered you profile several times, and each time I wanted to ask you where the particular picture was taken because ….  or something like this. I do not recommend contacting a guy with a message full of compliments, like the sex on the first date, it may flatter him in the beginning, but  it will be most likely used against you later.

Now about what you can or cannot ask a guy….there was an experiment that has proved that if a guy likes you, he will perceive almost everything you say in favorable light. As far as he likes you and sees that you are having fun, even the most awful blunder will be seen as jokes. Ask a guy whatever you wish to know, just do in a semi-joking way.

[vwrw]

 With her fluent English, she can approach them, make a small talk to them, even ask for their opinion or some advice depending on the situation, and eventually get a business card. Okay, what next?

If a guy really likes you, he won't only give you his card, he will make an effort to get your contact info too. If he does not, it means he is not very interested.  Just move on.

[vwrw]

Why do you feel reluctant to writing them?? What are your reasons?

Nobody usually goes grocery shopping  if it is already bought. The same about showing guys that you like them. If they see you already like them, they tend to make less efforts to win your heart and experience less agitation, wondering if you are interested in them enough, feeling less agitation may suggest to them that they are  not much into you ; whereas, on the woman’s side, we may witness an escalation of commitment to win the man and prove him that she is worthy of his efforts, and that is not a good start. Certainly, that can be fixed by getting too busy and letting him to ponder what a treasure he may lose, but I personally do not like all the “hard to get” games. They may backlash.

[JohnDearGreen]

Exactly. They look like "rednecks" in their worst meaning.
I don't understand how they can look for the women who are interested in golf,  opera and classical music.
To me it looks like all they need is a gallon of beer, a couch, TV and a loud fat woman with a crude sense of humour.   How could Match link us?!

Probably not, but sad to say, they are probably having more fun than you seem to be having.

You are getting a lot of emails. You have had 1 date so far in 8 months??


The tasks of searching & dating usually begin with emphasis on the positive aspects (looks, job, interests).  Then the de-idealization process begins and you have to deal with the imperfections as their skeletons (and yours) begin to come out of the closet.  Your de-idealization process seems to proceed at a rapid pace (one email exchange?).  Maybe something to think about...


Your process isn't working very well.  Maybe lower your expectations (try to date a little more),  avoid concentrating on the negative factors & the blame game until after a few dates, and forget about interests.  Your set of interests won't generate many matches in Texas, and most men hate playing golf near women.


Texas is a casual state (sports bar, a beer, cowboys game on TV, Wrangler jeans, George Strait on car stereo).  Have you thought about moving? Maybe east coast?  There were also a lot of single men in Ohio when I lived there (Cincinnati, Columbus, Dayton).  Avoid Lexington KY (The Horse Farm is the highlight of the city).  And Eduards city in Florida sounds like a possibility...

[Patagonie]

If a guy really likes you, he won't only give you his card, he will make an effort to get your contact info too. If he does not, it means he is not very interested.  Just move on.

Unfortunately a lot of time, it doesn't happen like this. In the best case they are capable to give you their card, often the professional one. To aks to a woman her personal number --> long road. Many men are not capable of this, and it doesn't mean that they are not interested.  I mean  in a casual meeting.
I agree with you in aw to avoid in a general manner to contact men by yourself . You are the pray, and your job is to be appealing.

If a  women want to meet high paid men, golf if normally the way to go. I'm not familar of course with the US fairways but in Europe i think that the rule is the same. Between pratice, club house, and pars, you have many opportunity to meet men. Just spend time in your club.
This my 0,02 cents.

[Misha]

If a guy really likes you, he won't only give you his card, he will make an effort to get your contact info too. If he does not, it means he is not very interested.  Just move on.

Or he might be somewhat shy and introverted 

[Misha]

I personally do not like all the “hard to get” games. They may backlash.

The problem is that such games are likely to appeal to men who like to play their own games: the players.


The challenge with the sit back and do nothing until I am pursued by the Alpha Male IMHO is that you are limiting your options. There are many successful men who are not the Alpha Male types when it comes to dating. They are the ones who will find it difficult to figure out if a woman is interested, who will be too shy to ask even if they think she is interested.