Divorced RW experience of dating in the US.

[Boethius]

There are only a few reasons American men are looking for FSU wives, in spite of all the rhetoric on the forums.
1.  Beauty compared to American women.
2.  Family values for raising children and having a close family.
3.  An age difference that is not considered unusual for FSU women
4.  An attitude difference between the feminists of American women and the genuine love for family of FSU women.

I call BS on that one.  It has nothing to do with AW or those "evil feminists".

AW have strong family attitudes as well.  They, like women everywhere, have a genuine love for family.  The difference is, they have support systems that FSUW don't have.

I would put my family values against those of any FSUW. 

Signed,

A Western feminist.

[Vasilisa]

Decided to share another dating story for those who are interested.
So, here it goes: the date after which you want to throw up.

I met a guy through an online  dating agency, my first impression was :we have nothing in common, what a playboy and a clown. Ok, maybe it was just the impression of the first date, he was nervous and he hasn't got used to dating foreign girls.

But the end of the first date was promising though, so I decided to give him another chance, but second date was a complete disaster.

Honestly , to find guys who are THAT ignorant, tactless and shallow you have either to go to a Russian ghetto or or a very small village full of alcoholics.  That guy was not from there: BA degree, nice job in sales, nice lookng, fancy sport car, 34 yo, looking for serious relationships.

When I started speaking or telling about something more or less serious he abrupted me with some stupid "not to the point" "smart a$$" jokes and laughed. It was impossible to speak him out to get more or less serious conversation. He didn't know anything about major events in the world, world history. When I started asking about World war 2 , if his relatives took part in it  he told:"yeah, I've heard something about that",  I asked:"Heard about what?!" He said:"About WW2, it is about Hitler, right, I've heard of it".He didn't even know the name of John Kennedy's wife!!!
At some point as I was eating he took his phone out, laughed  and said:"smile!!", I asked him to explain what he was doing he told that he wanted to take a picture of me. I told him I didn't want him to take my pictures, he ignored that part completely.

I asked to share the bill, he felt fine with it, when the waiter came he looked through his bill and told me that "hey, they are cheating!", so the manager came and explained everything to him, the bill was correct.
At the end he invited me to a baseball game as he has tickets.
 And yes, some small details like his getting on his  chair before I sat or his being late and some others are missing.

Wow!

[Vasilisa]

Visalisa,

I have been very tolerant of your posts that are offensive to some of us.  I respect that you are very sensitive to criticism while your language/culture allows you to by very direct!

My suggestion to you is to either accept the American culture and American men or find what makes you happy.  America ( or any other nation) is not going to adapt to your culture.  You are confined to where you live.  It is that simple!

If you choose to adapt to the culture you are in and accept it for what it is, you can experience all tahe wonderul things that a culture has to offer you.   IF you contine to live in the FSU culture, you are expecting something that is not going to happen.   You seem to be a very sensitive woman and I am sure that if you try to accept the culture you are living in, you will find a AM that you will be compatible with and find true love.

You need to shed your FSU culture and expectations and instead, seek a man that will want a faithfull wife regardless of your country of origin.  It seems to me that you are hanging on to FSU mentality and expecting AM to find that attractive.   Not likely going to happen.  If you want to be an American, then act like an American.   If you do not want to, then you know the options.

There are only a few reasons American men are looking for FSU wives, in spite of all the rhetoric on the forums.
1.  Beauty compared to American women.
2.  Family values for raising children and having a close family.
3.  An age difference that is not considered unusual for FSU women
4.  An attitude difference between the feminists of American women and the genuine love for family of FSU women.

It is simple as that!  If you can let go of your artificial expectations and are only seeking love from a suitable American man, you will be able to find it easily.  Please understand that your posts do not relect a woman that is wants to give love as much as expectations as what she will get in return.  I hope you can adjust to the mindset that is necessary to find true love wherever it might be.

And another "wow", I haven't visited that thread for a while and haven't read that part.
Calmissile, what is wrong with you: from one thread to another I keep on explaining that I feel fine with being a Russian and living in Russia if Ifind the one that would like to and loves traveling and Europe and you keep on giving  advices on how to become more American.

What that was about age difference tolerance?! I don't have Russian friends who have more than 5 years' difference with their Russian husbands and wives. Who told you that?
Besides, you contradict yourself in every post: I looked through American women profiles on dating websites, being 60 they look for men aged 38-65. If your advice is to become more American I should look for men who are 18-38 yo.

I don't have problems with finding  "any" American men just to have one. I've been on several dates so far and  haven't met any AM who wouldn't invite me for a second date yet. I want a NICE HEALTHY RESPECTFUL OPEN MINDED HUSBAND who would share my interests, would love to have kids and tavel with me. If you find these expectations artificial I am really sorry, think about yours.

[Gator]

He didn't know anything about major events in the world, world history. When I started asking about World war 2 , if his relatives took part in it  he told:"yeah, I've heard something about that",  I asked:"Heard about what?!" He said:"About WW2, it is about Hitler, right, I've heard of it".

Vasilisa,
 
Calmissile is perhaps thinking, "If this man does not comprehend Hitler, he will never comprehend you."        I hope you and Calmissile have a SOH.   
 
Bottom line:  Your date is uncultivated in behavior and interests.  There are better men; unfortunately, he is probably not far from the median.   History is not important to most men.  Regarding his lack of manners,  read the riot act, explaining that he has potential but needs to become more refined.  And volunteer to help if he wants to improve.
 
Throw up?  I have had a worse date in the FSU and I never thought about throwing up.   It happens as you overturn every stone in your search.  Keep trying.

[Vasilisa]

Vasilisa,
 
Calmissile is perhaps thinking, "If this man does not comprehend Hitler, he will never comprehend you."        I hope you and Calmissile have a SOH.   
 
Bottom line:  Your date is uncultivated in behavior and interests.  There are better men; unfortunately, he is probably not far from the median.   History is not important to most men.  Regarding his lack of manners,  read the riot act, explaining that he has potential but needs to become more refined.  And volunteer to help if he wants to improve.
 
Throw up?  I have had a worse date in the FSU and I never thought about throwing up.   It happens as you overturn every stone in your search.  Keep trying.

Gator, you shouldn't have told that, nowI want to know about the worse date 

I know there are better men, actually bad dates are pretty entertaining, I am not complaining, just wanted to show my vision, maybe that would be interesting to someone who is trying to date RW in the US, I just couldn't understand how a higher education and all that look and such low-style behavior can be in one person.

[Vasilisa]

What would you think if the woman cried on the first date?   

[Patagonie]

Decided to share another dating story for those who are interested.
So, here it goes: the date after which you want to throw up.

I met a guy through an online  dating agency, my first impression was :we have nothing in common, what a playboy and a clown. Ok, maybe it was just the impression of the first date, he was nervous and he hasn't got used to dating foreign girls.

But the end of the first date was promising though, so I decided to give him another chance, but second date was a complete disaster.

Honestly , to find guys who are THAT ignorant, tactless and shallow you have either to go to a Russian ghetto or or a very small village full of alcoholics.  That guy was not from there: BA degree, nice job in sales, nice lookng, fancy sport car, 34 yo, looking for serious relationships.

When I started speaking or telling about something more or less serious he abrupted me with some stupid "not to the point" "smart a$$" jokes and laughed. It was impossible to speak him out to get more or less serious conversation. He didn't know anything about major events in the world, world history. When I started asking about World war 2 , if his relatives took part in it  he told:"yeah, I've heard something about that",  I asked:"Heard about what?!" He said:"About WW2, it is about Hitler, right, I've heard of it".He didn't even know the name of John Kennedy's wife!!!
At some point as I was eating he took his phone out, laughed  and said:"smile!!", I asked him to explain what he was doing he told that he wanted to take a picture of me. I told him I didn't want him to take my pictures, he ignored that part completely.

I asked to share the bill, he felt fine with it, when the waiter came he looked through his bill and told me that "hey, they are cheating!", so the manager came and explained everything to him, the bill was correct.
At the end he invited me to a baseball game as he has tickets.
 And yes, some small details like his getting on his  chair before I sat or his being late and some others are missing.

Wow!

Wow such a date. Poor Vassilia. I can see that the road is long not only for men. As usual nothing replaces a true meeting to get the picture of whom you are really meeting.

[Fashionista]

 When I started asking about World war 2 ,

I wonder what led up to that... Was it something on the menu?

[vwrw]

What would you think if the woman cried on the first date?   

The act itself-crying on first date-would NOT lead a nonjudgmental person to form unfavorable opinion about the crying person. It is the reason behind the act that is important. If a sensitive and painful issue was touched, it is okay for the person to have tears on his or her eyes.

[Daveman]

I wonder what led up to that... Was it something on the menu?

I was wondering exactly the same thing... sounded more like the cool guy with the great smart ass sense of humor blundered into some Twilight Zone version of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire Vasilisa's Husband?!


WWII?  Who was JFK's Wife? 


I gotta tell ya V, I do LOVE a great  intellectual conversation, but if a woman came after me with these topics during our first dinner on our first date, I'd probably get drunk and jump out the window.. first dates should be FUN.   

[Fashionista]

I am trying to picture an inverted situation in my head... If a guy I barely knew invited me to a restaurant and started talking about WWII... or concentration camps...or torturing innocent people...I would probably be very worried, perhaps tried to make a few jokes to cheer him up a bit... I dunno, maybe take his picture and send it to a close friend of mine in case the police needs it while searching for me...

[Aloe]

Well, maybe it is important for her that a guy knows such things. So better find out sooner than later if he doesn't I once knew an american guy i liked, and one time we started talking about the UK, and he didn't know where it was. "Somewhere in europe". I was instantly turned off and even a bit repulsed All his good qualities just got outweighed by this one fact How can you not know such things? I also never wrote to men who wrote in their profile "I"m looking for a women". Freudian slip much?   Lol. Maybe i'm shallow.
Although now that i think of it, it wasn't so much the fact that he didn't know, it was how he defended himself, that he doesn't care where the UK is and doesn't wanna know. I really hate a lack of intellectual curiosity.

[Fashionista]

Well, maybe it is important for her that a guy knows such things.

I don't see an indication that he doesn't. Acting silly is a common defense mechanism, at least here in North America. I would pay money to hear the other side of the story.     
 
If you asked my hubby what WWII is, he'd probably say it's a role playing online game, just to see what happens next.   

[vwrw]

When I started speaking or telling about something more or less serious he abrupted me with some stupid "not to the point" "smart a$$" jokes and laughed. It was impossible to speak him out to get more or less serious conversation. He didn't know anything about major events in the world, world history. When I started asking about World war 2 , if his relatives took part in it  he told:"yeah, I've heard something about that",  I asked:"Heard about what?!" He said:"About WW2, it is about Hitler, right, I've heard of it".He didn't even know the name of John Kennedy's wife!!!
At some point as I was eating he took his phone out, laughed  and said:"smile!!", I asked him to explain what he was doing he told that he wanted to take a picture of me. I told him I didn't want him to take my pictures, he ignored that part completely.

Taking your picture without your permition was certainly indication of bad manners. However, judging your date as a clown because he prefers to have fun over “serious  talks” on first dates is jumping to conclusions. I foresee that after my admission of not remembering the name of a Russian classic writer you might discard my  opinion as unworthy; nevertheless, the rest of us who has trouble remembering names of people might find this observation interesting, so I will tell it anyway.

The situation that Varilisa encounter is an empirical evidence of a Russian classic writer’ observation, which he described in one of his stories. The story unfolds on a ship. Two men converse with each other for first time; one is westerner, the other Russian. And the writer comment on cultural differences between their conversational style. The western guy is personal; he talks about events in his life or lives of his family and friends, cracks jokes and otherwise tries to make the conversation pleasant for both. The Russian guy does not like personal conversations, he wants to talk about history, political issues and other boring “serious” staff. He thinks that small talk is waste of time and conversation is waste of time if people do not discuss serious” staff.  Maybe somebody else read this story and remember its author?

This story put a start for me to learn more about western way to communicate before friendship has been firmly established. I think this story can help Vasilisa too and she will be able to look differently on the “not serious talk”.

I do not think that any of the conversational styles is better. Each of them is a result of the reality where people grew up. Russian do not trust people until they prove trustworthy; therefore, while they discuses “serious” staff , they try to identify their conversationalists’ values and whether they should be trusted with personal staff. Western people, on the contrary, are taught to trust others until they prove untrustworthy; therefore, they are more prone to lead personal,  “not serious talk” with jokes.

[vwrw]

I am trying to picture an inverted situation in my head... If a guy I barely knew invited me to a restaurant and started talking about WWII... or concentration camps...or torturing innocent people...I would probably be very worried, perhaps tried to make a few jokes to cheer him up a bit... I dunno, maybe take his picture and send it to a close friend of mine in case the police needs it while searching for me...

I think the guy thinking was similar to yours. In America, the beginning of a personal relationship is all about fun. People try to determine if they can have fun together and if they can make each other laugh. People who push forward  "serious staff" at this phase are often seen as bores or/and the disturbed.

[The Natural]

I once knew an american guy i liked, and one time we started talking about the UK, and he didn't know where it was. "Somewhere in europe". I was instantly turned off and even a bit repulsed

That reminds me of the story of the US football player who worried if they would need a translator when the team went to London to play, hehe
 
http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/funniest-quote-athlete-year-dolphins-lb-channing-crowder-updated-994199/

[Gator]

Taking your picture without your permition was certainly indication of bad manners. However, judging your date as a clown because he prefers to have fun over “serious  talks” on first dates is jumping to conclusions. I foresee that after my admission of not remembering the name of a Russian classic writer you might discard my  opinion as unworthy; nevertheless, the rest of us who has trouble remembering names of people might find this observation interesting, so I will tell it anyway.

The situation that Varilisa encounter is an empirical evidence of a Russian classic writer’ observation, which he described in one of his stories. The story unfolds on a ship. Two men converse with each other for first time; one is westerner, the other Russian. And the writer comment on cultural differences between their conversational style. The western guy is personal; he talks about events in his life or lives of his family and friends, cracks jokes and otherwise tries to make the conversation pleasant for both. The Russian guy does not like personal conversations, he wants to talk about history, political issues and other boring “serious” staff. He thinks that small talk is waste of time and conversation is waste of time if people do not discuss serious” staff.  Maybe somebody else read this story and remember its author?

This story put a start for me to learn more about western way to communicate before friendship has been firmly established. I think this story can help Vasilisa too and she will be able to look differently on the “not serious talk”.

I do not think that any of the conversational styles is better. Each of them is a result of the reality where people grew up. Russian do not trust people until they prove trustworthy; therefore, while they discuses “serious” staff , they try to identify their conversationalists’ values and whether they should be trusted with personal staff. Western people, on the contrary, are taught to trust others until they prove untrustworthy; therefore, they are more prone to lead personal,  “not serious talk” with jokes.

Highly correlated to Vasilisa's latest dating experience.   
 
Is Vasilisa's dating experience simply a contrast in Western mentality vs. Russian mentality?  To some degree, yes;   however, there is more.   Keep in mind that her date has a "nice job in sales."   Salesmen generally have a warm personality and try to make the customer feel at ease.   Hence, the light talk.
 
We do not know the product he sells nor his customers.   On this date, his product was himself  and Vasilisa was the customer.   She was not buying. 
 
A good salesmen would try a different approach if they perceive they are not connecting with the other party.   Vasilisa needs to keep in mind that she is also selling herself.   Both she and her dates need to bend.   We have seen on these pages the interaction when Calmissile did not bend.

[Fashionista]

People who push forward  "serious staff" at this phase are often seen as bores or/and the disturbed.

In my experience talking about "serious stuff" is just another way of name dropping from people who have very little knowledge on the subject. That usually cracks me up. Serious people talk about serious stuff at work, with colleages. An average person will probably have very little understanding of what they are talking about.

[Gator]

What would you think if the woman cried on the first date?   

Wow!  In this short sentence, you have revealed more about yourself than in your 300  posts.
 
My initial response is that this is the sum effect of three factors.  My estimate of weightings:
 
15% because of something that happened during the date.
 
85% because of the past:
        -  35% because of frustration built up with your unsuccessful prior dates (unsuccessful in not finding anyone close to Mr. Right, but hopefully successful in relaxing and having fun) and other recent frustrations.
        -   50% because of something in the past that you have not made peace with, perhaps peace with yourself.   
 
That 50% issue is probably far too complicated to discuss at RWD.   However, in making this post you have taken a big step towards reconciliation and peace.  Keep working!   

[LiveFromUkraine]

That reminds me of the story of the US football player who worried if they would need a translator when the team went to London to play, hehe
 
http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/funniest-quote-athlete-year-dolphins-lb-channing-crowder-updated-994199/

Remembering how thick some of the accents were when I visited, I would have gladly hired someone to help translate.  The best I could do was to drink a few pints with them which seemed to work beautifully.  haha

[LiveFromUkraine]

Wow!  In this short sentence, you have revealed more about yourself than in your 300  posts.
 
My initial response is that this is the sum effect of three factors.  My estimate of weightings:
 
15% because of something that happened during the date.
 
85% because of the past:
        -  35% because of frustration built up with your unsuccessful prior dates (unsuccessful in not finding anyone close to Mr. Right, but hopefully successful in relaxing and having fun) and other recent frustrations.
        -   50% because of something in the past that you have not made peace with, perhaps peace with yourself.   
 
That 50% issue is probably far too complicated to discuss at RWD.   However, in making this post you have taken a big step towards reconciliation and peace.  Keep working!   

Sometimes it is better to not date and work on being happy.  Once you get happy you can always start dating again if one needs a good cry. 

[Gator]

In my experience talking about "serious stuff" is just another way of name dropping from people who have very little knowledge on the subject. That usually cracks me up. Serious people talk about serious stuff at work, with colleages. An average person will probably have very little understanding of what they are talking about.

Everyone is different.  Many people talk seriously because they are intrinsically serious.   Does not make them bad or wrong, just different from someone who prefers light interactions.   Leaders are serious.  Dullards also are serious.   Nevertheless, we choose our friends, and chemistry is part of the friendship.
 
Me?  I thrive on wit.  However, in attempting wit it sometimes comes out as blabber.   So I need someone who is not only tolerant but forgiving.   My Cossack woman is serious.      We both have bent.
 
 

[Gator]

That reminds me of the story of the US football player who worried if they would need a translator when the team went to London to play, hehe
 
http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/funniest-quote-athlete-year-dolphins-lb-channing-crowder-updated-994199/

The player went to the University of Florida.  They are not the brightest people.  I do not know why that university chose "Gators" as their nickname.  Everyone knows that a "Gator" is the highest form of life.

[Fashionista]

Everyone is different.  Many people talk seriously because they are intrinsically serious.   Does not make them bad or wrong, just different from someone who prefers light interactions... Nevertheless, we choose our friends, and chemistry is part of the friendship.
 

That I agree with. Not that much with the "sell the product" metaphore.   

[Muzh]

That reminds me of the story of the US football player who worried if they would need a translator when the team went to London to play, hehe
 
http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/funniest-quote-athlete-year-dolphins-lb-channing-crowder-updated-994199/

Ahem, what is so funny about that? 
 
They say here that America and England are two countries separated by the same language.