Divorced RW experience of dating in the US.

[Anotherkiwi]

I  agree on that. The problem is that I have no idea what I am doing wrong as I am NOT looking for perfection and I am not looking for the Prince moreover, I know what type of people I am looking for and I've met them in real life  many times  and I meet them every day but all of them are married.

Now about me: more caring I get,  harder I work at myself the worse results I get, moreover, now I get less attention than I did when I was 15 pounds fatter than I am now and my hair was shorter than it is now. Since I have no idea how it  works and I am not going to contact  tattooed druggers I am getting out of this process!

Vasilisa, you told us a long time ago that you are very pretty (perhaps not in so many words but, if I remember correctly, you were comparing yourself with a woman who I thought was beautiful).  Could it be something as simple as most men you meet thinking that beauty and brains cannot go together?  That, just because you are beautiful, you are an airhead who is going to be grateful for the attention you get from Mr "I think I'm Wonderful but in reality I'm a total dork?"
 
I posted on here about the young lady (21) I met on my last trip to Russia who was, by far, the most beautiful woman I have ever seen.  She is also one of the nicest people I've ever met, yet she didn't have a boyfriend at the time, presumably because everyone was scared off as soon as they saw her.  I don't rate myself anywhere near her class in looks, but I'm certainly better looking than the back end of a bus, and I've been single now for many years.  I've been looking for that special someone for a lot longer than you - I thought a couple of times that I may have found her, but no.  I've had plenty of dates here and in Russia and Ukraine, but haven't found that magic spark.
 
However, I have kept looking, but not to the paranoid extent that I must have somebody, ANYBODY, to make me complete.  I know she's out there somewhere - I may meet her, I may not, but I'm not going to force the issue and find myself with someone who turns out to be a reincarnation of Lizzie Borden.
 
I know that the great majority of FSUW want children in their lives.  If that applies to you, and you feel that your biological clock is ticking away, that may be a reason to look more seriously that I am, but it is still no reason to rush into a relationship just for the sake of it.  You never know - your real Prince Charming may even be a member here, and neither of you know it!  Just don't go all fatalistic on us just yet! 
 
As for "I know what type of people I am looking for and I've met them in real life many times and I meet them every day but all of them are married" - how do you think I feel?  There are at least three or four women I know whose husbands probably don't have a clue how their wives affect me!     But - there is no way I'm going to get involved with anyone who is already married, so I have to look further afield.
 
You WILL find someone - so will I.  I don't know how long it will take - nor do you.  Hopefully there will be joy and excitement along the way, and that stalkers will be relegated to distant memories.
 
Now, come and join us back in the playpen...

[Faux Pas]

I  agree on that. The problem is that I have no idea what I am doing wrong as I am NOT looking for perfection and I am not looking for the Prince moreover, I know what type of people I am looking for and I've met them in real life  many times  and I meet them every day but all of them are married.

Now about me: more caring I get,  harder I work at myself the worse results I get, moreover, now I get less attention than I did when I was 15 pounds fatter than I am now and my hair was shorter than it is now. Since I have no idea how it  works and I am not going to contact  tattooed druggers I am getting out of this process!

It's frustrating I know. Chances are that you are not doing anything wrong. Your expectations of "how or when" the love of your life enters the picture might be a little skewed. You seem to be adding more pressure on yourself with the idea of having children and meeting deadlines. My advice is, don't do that. If children are that important to you and your clock is running out, have them on your own.

I found myself a divorced single father at 30 with absolutely no interest in ever marrying again. I had plenty of dates and plenty of women who would have married me in a nano-second. By 40 I had softened up on that position quite a bit but, the pool of women had seriously declined. I did the online dating like most people on these boards with pretty much the same results. I dated locally on a regular basis with the idea that I want to find a woman to marry. Nothing happened the way I wanted it to despite everything I did. Some things are just not in our control.

You are going to find this guy. He is real and he is out there somewhere. He may not look like you expect, he may not share the same interests as you currently require. These things are on the surface and superficial. Look past these requirements and look for someone that you can admire for the quality individual they are first. Make yourself an interesting and available person that someone can admire on the inside.

You will find him Vasilisa, I promise you that. It's highly unlikely you'll find him or he you in "your" time frame. Some things you have to let happen instead of trying to hammer it out on an anvil shaped into just what you want it to be. Little worth having in the way of quality relationships will work out that way. You do come off as a bit of a perfectionist. That's not a trait we share and that is quite a bit of a negative when seeking a mate IMHO. Forget the deadlines, forget giving up. Stop thinking that you "have" to find him soon. You don't and that thinking will likely break your heart in the end. Let things happen instead of trying to make them happen.

[Gator]

Vasilisa,
 
Yes, take a break from this process for a year.  Do not be so serious.  Date men for fun with no expectations. 
 
If a man is no fun, say paka.  If someone makes you laugh or shows you something new and interesting, have mindless sex.  If the sex is only average, find someome else.   
 
You will do no worse than this past year, and you will not be bored.  And maybe....... 
 
That is exactly how the mother of my children and I met after she had her heart broken by two and used by a third.   She was having a good time in life and was a lot of fun to be with.  It lasted 25 years.

[Belvis]

If someone makes you laugh or shows you something new and interesting, have mindless sex.  If the sex is only average, find someone else.   

She would do great things with RM employing such approach. And she's looking for something else, right opposite. No?

[Slumba]

Vasilisa,
 
Yes, take a break from this process for a year.  Do not be so serious.  Date men for fun with no expectations. 
 
If a man is no fun, say paka.  If someone makes you laugh or shows you something new and interesting, have mindless sex.  If the sex is only average, find someome else.   
 
You will do no worse than this past year, and you will not be bored.  And maybe....... 
 
That is exactly how the mother of my children and I met after she had her heart broken by two and used by a third.   She was having a good time in life and was a lot of fun to be with.  It lasted 25 years.

Seems like odd advice, to be honest the advice of a nihilist.

[Gator]

And she's looking for something else, right opposite. No?

I guess.     We are all wired differently.  And women can be especially complicated. 
 
Vasilisa married an American, and IIRC she discovered he was too immature for a loving, enduring marriage.  And she has looked for two years without success, building up to a high level of disappointment and frustration.   All of us at RWD want to help her.
 
My suggestion is turn over a new leak and simply have fun.   I need to elaborate to distinguish it from dating RM.   
 
In turning over a new leaf, one changes in many ways.  In my brevity I mentioned sex and not much else, yet there is far more than sex in having fun.   "Fun" is about doing things for yourself in the present and not worrying about the future.   Take music lessons and art classes, go to the theater, etc. 
 
Give up the mission to find Mr. Right yet continue to date men.  The difference in dating now is to not take it seriously.  Some men may be fun yet not ready today to talk seriously about marriage.  Meet them even if it is going to a baseball game.  And if a man can be fun even at a baseball game, ask him to take you horseback riding or trekking in nature or stage theater.......... what ever she really wants to do and hasn't been doing because she has been husband shopping...... And if he refuses, he is not fun, so dump him.
 
And date many men, even concurrently.  Be strong, be the boss.  Keep it casual without talk about marriage.  Do not take a subordinate role in any date even though she may have traditional values from her Russian culture.    Do not allow any man to get close.    If over time one man starts to rise above the rest, insist that he take you on a holiday to Mexico or Las Vegas.  And enjoy safe sex with the better men even though there is no emotional connection.   
 
One could say that this is using men.  So what!   Maybe a special man will emerge from the many.  If not, at least she has been enjoying herself as an independent woman doing what she wants to do.  And there may be periods without any men.  That is when she must be strong and welcome such solitude as a time to concentrate totally on what you want to do.
 

[Gator]

Seems like odd advice, to be honest the advice of a nihilist.

I had to look up "nihilist."  And I see it has a Russian base.  Not me; I am not destructive.   If you must label me, call me an egotist, or simply unrestrained. 
 
I guess my suggestion for Vasilisa is more the behavior of feminist AW rather than the traditional RW glorified in the MOB fantasy.   I dated exactly this way in the 70s, a period of free love, i. e., unrestrained relationships.   I returned to the American dating scene 20+ years later, and found most women wanting a more serious relationship.  Yet, some independent free thinkers were around and I gravitated there.  And in the FSU I again gravitated to the more independent RW, who still appreciated the concept of family - a splendid combination.
 
So my suggestion for Vasilisa is exactly that, a suggestion.  What she is doing now does not seem to bring much joy.   So I deemed she needed to turn over a new leaf, to begin anew.  Life is not a dress rehearsal.

[BC]

Just jumping in here....

the whole 'trick' about finding a mate is about expanding one's own sphere of influence.

Of course sitting on the couch, banging away at a keyboard won't get you anywhere... that's the 'dream'.

If you find that mates within your local 'boundaries'  are not sufficient, then go beyond them, physically.

Someone, somewhere, is waiting for you..   believe me...

.. and guess what.. it takes very little effort.. - in fact the more you strive, the less you will be rewarded..

Just get out there and do something.. anything that is not your norm.

[vwrw]

Today I wrote a nice long letter to the man I liked, his message was about how much he wanted to have a family with 2 kids, blah blah blah,... well...it was a letter written specially for him, yes, I wrote it specially for him, asked a lot of questions, shared a lot of thoughts and dreams, attached several cute pictures and started waiting.

What I got back was a dry indifferent letter asking me if I had pre-written that letter and he also wrote he is going to Colombia for Thanxgiving  and to Thailand for Christmas  (I can only guess why) , didn't answer my questions at all, that was it.


Which makes me think that men deserve being used and scammed. What they truly need is a pretty piece of meat with bikini or underwear pictures or a sugar mommy or both. Nobody appreciates true feelings, emotions, generous sincere attitude and either ignores it or laughs at it.

 

Perhaps, you try too hard and it is viewed as a desperation or a trap and that makes men cautious toward you.   

[Lily]

What they truly need is a pretty piece of meat with bikini or underwear pictures or a sugar mommy or both. Nobody appreciates true feelings, emotions, generous sincere attitude and either ignores it or laughs at it.

You are absolutely right, this is what the men want. All warm blooded men, be it in the West or East. A beautiful slender feminine body in combination with a cute face. This comes first and foremost. Plus they want emotions that come from the female.

What you listed second comes afterwards, after the former condition is met. It starts coming at the later stage of relationships. Not yet at the stage that Vasilisa is now.

[Vasilisa]

Great response.  I could not have put it more delicatlely myself.  I hope she understands what you had to say.

That is definitely a great post, especially if to remember that Vasilisa mentioned it by HERSELF about 2 posts before.
But it is  amazing to see the posts like this from the people who are extremely unsuccessful in the dating process themselves.

[Vasilisa]

   I dated exactly this way in the 70s, a period of free love, i. e., unrestrained relationships.   

Gator, in the 60-ies and 70-ies women were women and despite looking for free love they were seen as females by men. So this type of behavior looked new, fresh, different and cute.

Nowadays it is not cute anymore and women like this are not seen as cute independent ladies but as w-ores.

My ex MIL was like that, too: very "independent" in her words, using swear words from time to time, drinking beer, looking and acting like a guy, smoked but at the same time she never worked, even when we met she still laughed at "princesses" with ladies' like behavior.

I don't think that women with the same type of behavior and appearance would be seen as good candidates for stay at home moms. Maybe in the 60-ies they did showing their protest to the society this way, not now.

[Vasilisa]

Perhaps, you try too hard and it is viewed as a desperation or a trap and that makes men cautious toward you.

I am not trying hard. Many times I've got messages from the men starting with "so why are you still single?"
I have no idea why, but I am.

[Vasilisa]

Just jumping in here....

the whole 'trick' about finding a mate is about expanding one's own sphere of influence.

Of course sitting on the couch, banging away at a keyboard won't get you anywhere... that's the 'dream'.

If you find that mates within your local 'boundaries'  are not sufficient, then go beyond them, physically.

Someone, somewhere, is waiting for you..   believe me...

.. and guess what.. it takes very little effort.. - in fact the more you strive, the less you will be rewarded..

Just get out there and do something.. anything that is not your norm.

Thank you for your support, I am not going to bars and unfortunately right now I don't have much time for starting any kind of additional activities. Maybe next year.

[Vasilisa]

I guess.     We are all wired differently.  And women can be especially complicated. 
 
Vasilisa married an American, and IIRC she discovered he was too immature for a loving, enduring marriage.  And she has looked for two years without success, building up to a high level of disappointment and frustration.   All of us at RWD want to help her.
 

well, Gator, actually I've not been ACTIVELY looking for 2 years, it was more like "1 month looking actively" then going back to Russia, the 4 months of working hard, then 1 month of looking actively, then desperation again.

it's more like I don't see any kind of the interest which I'd like to see and I don't want to spend my time on the guys that are dating multiple girls at the same time and wasting my and their time in hope that someone would just realize that he needs to go and start a serious relationship with me. 

When I am starting a relationship  and I am interested I am SHOWING I am interested and I'd like to see the same or better level of interest in return. If the man answers with 'why was your letter that long, was it pre-written?" I have no desire to waste my time corresponding with him further hoping he would change his mind and gets interested.

[Patagonie]

well, Gator, actually I've not been ACTIVELY looking for 2 years, it was more like "1 month looking actively" then going back to Russia, the 4 months of working hard, then 1 month of looking actively, then desperation again.

it's more like I don't see any kind of the interest which I'd like to see and I don't want to spend my time on the guys that are dating multiple girls at the same time and wasting my and their time in hope that someone would just realize that he needs to go and start a serious relationship with me. 

When I am starting a relationship  and I am interested I am SHOWING I am interested and I'd like to see the same or better level of interest in return. If the man answers with 'why was your letter that long, was it pre-written?" I have no desire to waste my time corresponding with him further hoping he would change his mind and gets interested.

Too impatient, too proud ?

[Vasilisa]

Too impatient, too proud ?

Not really, just don't want to waste time on useless people that don't care. Learn from my mistakes.

[Vasilisa]

Ok, here is an example of the correspondence with  the guy who is amazingly educated according to his profile, the pictures are nice, he looks fine. It's one of the websites where Western men are looking for RW. I got registered last week. This is one of the first letters I got

He:
Vasilisa, you have a beautiful smile and a lovely aura! I hope you are enjoying the website.
Me:
thank you very much for your compliment, you seem to be a wonderful person, I'd love to know you better!!! As for my enjoying the website, well, I am new here so I don't know yet, I want to hope I will find my Man here:) I am pretty traditional and it's hard to find the right man when many men expect to see an independent feminist:)How was your weekend?
He:
It is nice to have an independent feminist!
Me:
Good luck in your search then. There are a lot of them in the US:)
He:
I thought you were Ok Sorry to have troubled you! Just when your independent as you have described we men get scared.
Ok enjoy your independence
I wish you much sucess! Your very cute so I am sure you will find the Independence that you desire!! Please enjoy

No, I am not kidding.
Now answer the question: what am I doing wrong?!

[lonedrake]

Vasilisa,

 First of all thank you for the excellent advice. I just read most of this thread and now understand what you are going through. I feel for you.

 As far as the last conversation went with that guy.....I think he just misunderstood what you said about independent feminists...or he was just making a joke.

 You didn't catch that and just overreacted IMO.People do that all the time when they are texting or e-mailing.

[Misha]

Vasilisa, I would say that you come across a tad too serious right off the bat.

[Patagonie]

i am going to comment, and excuse me but i am often direct on this forum.

Ok, here is an example of the correspondence with  the guy who is amazingly educated according to his profile, the pictures are nice, he looks fine. It's one of the websites where Western men are looking for RW. I got registered last week. This is one of the first letters I got

He:
Vasilisa, you have a beautiful smile and a lovely aura! I hope you are enjoying the website.

FIRST CONTACT, not to bad, just "i'm the man and want to know if you are interested"

Me:
thank you very much for your compliment, you seem to be a wonderful person, I'd love to know you better!!! As for my enjoying the website, well, I am new here so I don't know yet, I want to hope I will find my Man here:) I am pretty traditional and it's hard to find the right man when many men expect to see an independent feminist:)How was your weekend?

YOUR ANSWER, rather than what you wrote :
thank you very much for your compliment, you seem to be a wonderful person.  As for me enjoying the website, well, I am new here so I don't know yet. Are here for a long time ? How was your week end ? Have a nice day. 

--> NO POLITICS, NO HUGE TOPIC and especially about feminism. NOTHING about death, nothing too serious during the firsts mails.


He:
It is nice to have an independent feminist!

THIS GUY HAVE SOME BALLS, 95% of men would have answered "i love traditionnal women, it is always what i am searching for bla bla bla". KEEP HIM !

Me:
Good luck in your search then. There are a lot of them in the US:)

TOO HOT BLOODED, here you close the door, just because someone (you believe) smash you. In fact he is not smashing you, he is just expressing an opinion.

He:
I thought you were Ok Sorry to have troubled you! Just when your independent as you have described we men get scared.
Ok enjoy your independence
I wish you much sucess! Your very cute so I am sure you will find the Independence that you desire!! Please enjoy

IN HIS CASE I WOULD HAVE NOT EVEN ANSWERED, i would have think, wow agressive person, wow, no loss. SO this guy is interested in you and he is well mannered (for the moment). The door is not totally closed.

VASSILIA, if this guy is not so far, write him something like : "i think perhaps we had had some misunderstandings, ready to have a coffee together ? What do you think about saturday, XX hours, downtown ? (you can come with your brother if you are too afraid of me (wink icone here).

No, I am not kidding.
Now answer the question: what am I doing wrong?!

[Belvis]

Now answer the question: what am I doing wrong?!

I would be scared off too, as that poor guy.  Your talk sounded like:
- Hi girl, you're looking nice!
- What? I hope you're not from those bastards who look for these bloody feminists. OK, may be you're not so bad, let me see. How are you?

[Ranetka]

I am with guys here, you overreacted a bit. He might have misread your text (I do it a lot, especially if checking from the phone) or he made a little joke. I am also in total agreement with Pat, he is still interested. Why don't you text him again, see if you two can meet and find out (preferably without confrontation lol) what exactly is he looking for rather than relying on one totally harmless message?
 
I really wish you well as I have been in your shoes for over two years. It's hard to say because our online persona often different from real life however you come across as
 
intelligent
quick - witted
rightfully proud
 
however also
 
quick to judge
too quick to open up
confrontational.
 
It's a very good example how you just judged the man on two words which probably meant different to what you think anyway. And you said good bye without trying to find out what exactly did he mean. Give men a bit more chances, seriously.  You can drop any man at any time but it's much harder when they dropped you if you see what I mean lol.
 
Also I'd suggest instead of going to the gym sign for martial art classes, loads of men there and loads of opportunities to interract. :-)

[GoodOlBoy]

...you come across as
 
intelligent
quick - witted
rightfully proud
 
however also
 
quick to judge
too quick to open up
confrontational. 

Good observations!
 

Also I'd suggest instead of going to the gym sign for martial art classes, loads of men there and loads of opportunities to interract. :-)

Great idea Ranetka, just don't beat the guy's up to badly Vasilisa! 
(joke)
 
GOB

[Patagonie]

In case of you are on sites where there are a lot of RW or only RW i would tell you something :

Apart the visual aspect for which men are focussing (pretty woman, first criteria of selection of men generally)
Men (guys correct me if i am wrong) are enjoying the "traditionnal but very modern character of RW", "the apparent sweetness of RW (even if they are strong, yes we know it)".
So western men use to meet not reliable western women, unfaithful women, women in disaccordance with their feminity, agressive women and confrontanional women. And it happens many times.

During the meeting time, western women use usually games to sort and filter men in the purpose to get the most valuables. They practice two sorts of tests : compliance and congruence tests.
Both are about to know if the man is really what he seems to be and to assess if she could be loved even if she does or says something wrong.
Your phrase Vassilia "I am pretty traditional and it's hard to find the right man when many men expect to see an independent feminist" sounds like a test (congruence test here)  but it is out of time and out of subject.  You have not met him yet. And YOU are searching a relationship, which supposes that you are compliant, NOT confrontational, NOT agressive.

In fact i would tell here that men are used to meet confrontational women more and more in the west and they are tired of such women. It doesn't mean that they searching a slave or a women without personality but something more traditionnal, a woman whom accepts more that the guy leads.
You appear to be  the iron western women version here : this is not appealing for many men, especially for those who are especially attracted by the eastern soul.
Or you will rather find men who play a more female gender role. Something which will probably not satisfies you, but who knows ?