From Ukraine with Love

[noelscot]

Anotherkiwi,
Cut me some frigging slack. I'm in a foreign country, using an i-phone with a nearly dead battery, and "txtspk" was a much more efficient  than me being a grammarian and polishing my prose. Now I got a charger adapter and am back on track. Time is money, and I am a mercantile Amerikan. I won't even comment on the B.S. I was subjected to Sat. & Sun.   

[LAman]

Noel...i 'm confused.....you did stay in 2 bdrm flat in Kiev correct? Wasn't family concerned when your girl left odessa to spend couple nights with you in Kiev? After brother concerns...did you get another flat?
I am dying to hear your overnight trains stories!!!! And have fun in Odessa.
Boy...another overnight train to sevastopol??? Your a glutton for punishment!!!
Why not yalta or alushta???

[Anotherkiwi]

Anotherkiwi,
Cut me some frigging slack. I'm in a foreign country, using an i-phone with a nearly dead battery, and "txtspk" was a much more efficient  than me being a grammarian and polishing my prose. Now I got a charger adapter and am back on track. Time is money, and I am a mercantile Amerikan. I won't even comment on the B.S. I was subjected to Sat. & Sun.

You're missing my point.  We will all be happy for you if this adventure turns into something wonderful with your lady, but your first priority is that lady and your trip, NOT writing reports for RWD!  You don't need this to be a blog where you dump your thoughts on the forum if you have 30 seconds to spare.  I'm sure that everyone is quite happy to wait an extra hour (or twelve) for your updates.
 
As for the highlighted bit - get a life!  You're on HOLIDAY, or had you forgotten?  In this pursuit, especially as this is your first trip, time is NOT money - it is far more precious, as you try to find out as much as possible about your lady friend and her amazing country.

[noelscot]

Noel...i 'm confused.....you did stay in 2 bdrm flat in Kiev correct? Wasn't family concerned when your girl left odessa to spend couple nights with you in Kiev? After brother concerns...did you get another flat?
I am dying to hear your overnight trains stories!!!! And have fun in Odessa.
Boy...another overnight train to sevastopol??? Your a glutton for punishment!!!
Why not yalta or alushta???

The glutton for punishment train stops here, believe you me. I like Odessa much more than Kiev.

[noelscot]

As for the highlighted bit - get a life!  You're on HOLIDAY, or had you forgotten?  In this pursuit, especially as this is your first trip, time is NOT money - it is far more precious, as you try to find out as much as possible about your lady friend and her amazing country.

I'm not on holiday. If I was going on holiday, do you think I would pick UKRAINE, much less DURING MARCH? If I were on holiday I'd go to the Bahamas or somewhere that does not form icecicles on my face when I walk the streets. I'm here to find a wife, not soak up the culture. And time is money. Time is my most precious commodity. Not everyone is well-off to where they can realistically make multiple trips. I was counting on maybe three trips in my life, at best. I have to make sure I do not waste what is left of this trip. So at the end of the day, I try to do a balancing act of putting down some cogent thoughts, perhaps entertaining to some, and going out and pounding the pavement.
It is what it is.
Today I saw the Opera House. I'm on Gavannaya St. Jack's associate Olga set me up with her friend Yulia to rent a flat. It's really nice. To-day I walked around and saw the port. The municipal building. City Garden. The opera house. Ykeaterina statue. Potemkin stairs. Then I ate at a Ukrainian restraunt below my kvartina. Ochen horosho. The food in Odessa is much better than Kiev, and I like Odessa better than Kiev.
 

[Vinnvinny]

I'm here to find a wife, not soak up the culture .....


Today I saw the Opera House. I'm on Gavannaya St. Jack's associate Olga set me up with her friend Yulia to rent a flat. It's really nice. To-day I walked around and saw the port. The municipal building. City Garden. The opera house. Ykeaterina statue. Potemkin stairs. Then I ate at a Ukrainian restraunt below my kvartina. Ochen horosho.

It seems like you are holiday to me. 

[noelscot]

It seems like you are holiday to me. 

Yes, seems that way, but with whom was I walking? Not by myself, that's for damn sure. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Anotherkiwi]

I'll split and merge a couple of parts of your statement to show what we're trying to get at here (and please believe me when I say that we ARE trying to help and that we DO wish you every success).
 

I'm not on holiday... I'm here to find a wife, not soak up the culture...And time is money. Time is my most precious commodity. Not everyone is well-off to where they can realistically make multiple trips. I was counting on maybe three trips in my life, at best. I have to make sure I do not waste what is left of this trip.

Although it's not a commandment as such, the number one rule in this endeavour is that all emails, phone calls and Skype time count for absolutely nothing until you meet the woman (or women), whether in her country or yours.  You absolutely must treat a first trip as a holiday ONLY - any romance (to whatever degree of commitment) is a bonus.  Yes, it costs money (a lot in some cases), so you feel that you have to try to get value for that expenditure.  However, although there are plenty of exceptions, many first trip "romances" crash and burn within a few days of meeting (sometimes within minutes    - I can speak from experience on that one!) as the people involved realise that, for whatever reason, the relationship just won't work.  If you don't have a backup plan (even if that just means spending the next week or two enjoying the sights and sounds of somewhere you've never been before), what are you going to do when the lady says goodbye?
 
The other part of this particular equation is that, assuming your relationship is progressing fairly smoothly, your lady friend will EXPECT you to soak up at least some of the culture.  I don't mean taking her to the opera or ballet every night, but letting her share the everyday part of her life with you (grocery shopping, travelling on the Metro or in a marshrootka, going tenpin bowling or whatever), not just visiting tourist attractions and restaurants.
 

...If I was going on holiday, do you think I would pick UKRAINE, much less DURING MARCH? If I were on holiday I'd go to the Bahamas or somewhere that does not form icecicles on my face when I walk the streets...

You need more sleep, because you obviously don't realise how arrogant and insulting that statement is (although most here would probably agree with a rider about the current weather).  I'm sure you know that a huge number of members are married to women from Ukraine, and that many of the female members come from there.  How would you feel if somebody trashed your country/state/city like that?  I'm also sure that you know the weather later in the year is a lot more pleasant than it is at the moment.
 

...So at the end of the day, I try to do a balancing act of putting down some cogent thoughts, perhaps entertaining to some, and going out and pounding the pavement.
It is what it is.
Today I saw the Opera House. I'm on Gavannaya St. Jack's associate Olga set me up with her friend Yulia to rent a flat. It's really nice. To-day I walked around and saw the port. The municipal building. City Garden. The opera house. Ykeaterina statue. Potemkin stairs. Then I ate at a Ukrainian restraunt below my kvartina. Ochen horosho. The food in Odessa is much better than Kiev, and I like Odessa better than Kiev.

See?  You're finding culture without even trying!  But, as I wrote earlier, don't worry about the forum if you're running short of your most precious commmodity - people will be quite happy to read your "cogent thoughts" when you have time to properly weigh up how they should be presented.  If you have a bad experience, share it by all means if you want to, but don't use that one example to write off a whole city or country.

[Daveman]

So excellent points AKiwi, so I'll only touch on this one...

..

 going tenpin bowling
...

just a heads up (to prevent your heads down).  They oil the lanes AND the approach... there is no such thing as a graceful sliding follow through... there is special way to bowl there.. it's called  "stop on a dime and swan dive down the lane delivering both ball and body into the pins"..


just so ya know...

[SteveOR]

Noel, life's an adventure and you're having one.  The good news is that you're a well prepared and smart guy.  You'll do fine.  Enjoy your time in Ukraine and don't worry about the tough love coming from some of the other members here.  They mean well and would probably trade places with you in a heartbeat if they could. . .

[Anotherkiwi]

So excellent points AKiwi, so I'll only touch on this one...


just a heads up (to prevent your heads down).  They oil the lanes AND the approach... there is no such thing as a graceful sliding follow through... there is special way to bowl there.. it's called  "stop on a dime and swan dive down the lane delivering both ball and body into the pins"..


just so ya know...

Obviously posted by a man with experience!  Everyone really would have been  .  But this is the thing about ANY destination - if you can laugh at yourself for being a prat then you haven't entirely wasted your time.

[Anotherkiwi]

Noel, life's an adventure and you're having one.  The good news is that you're a well prepared and smart guy.  You'll do fine.  Enjoy your time in Ukraine and don't worry about the tough love coming from some of the other members here.  They mean well and would probably trade places with you in a heartbeat if they could. . .

Of course!  I love to travel - my favourite G-rated fantasy is to simply have enough money to travel forever, preferably with some gorgeous female company, discovering new places and people all the time.

[noelscot]

I'll split and merge a couple of parts of your statement to show what we're trying to get at here (and please believe me when I say that we ARE trying to help and that we DO wish you every success).
 
Although it's not a commandment as such, the number one rule in this endeavour is that all emails, phone calls and Skype time count for absolutely nothing until you meet the woman (or women), whether in her country or yours.  You absolutely must treat a first trip as a holiday ONLY - any romance (to whatever degree of commitment) is a bonus.  Yes, it costs money (a lot in some cases), so you feel that you have to try to get value for that expenditure.  However, although there are plenty of exceptions, many first trip "romances" crash and burn within a few days of meeting (sometimes within minutes    - I can speak from experience on that one!) as the people involved realise that, for whatever reason, the relationship just won't work.  If you don't have a backup plan (even if that just means spending the next week or two enjoying the sights and sounds of somewhere you've never been before), what are you going to do when the lady says goodbye?
 
The other part of this particular equation is that, assuming your relationship is progressing fairly smoothly, your lady friend will EXPECT you to soak up at least some of the culture.  I don't mean taking her to the opera or ballet every night, but letting her share the everyday part of her life with you (grocery shopping, travelling on the Metro or in a marshrootka, going tenpin bowling or whatever), not just visiting tourist attractions and restaurants.
 
You need more sleep, because you obviously don't realise how arrogant and insulting that statement is (although most here would probably agree with a rider about the current weather).  I'm sure you know that a huge number of members are married to women from Ukraine, and that many of the female members come from there.  How would you feel if somebody trashed your country/state/city like that?  I'm also sure that you know the weather later in the year is a lot more pleasant than it is at the moment.
 
See?  You're finding culture without even trying!  But, as I wrote earlier, don't worry about the forum if you're running short of your most precious commmodity - people will be quite happy to read your "cogent thoughts" when you have time to properly weigh up how they should be presented.  If you have a bad experience, share it by all means if you want to, but don't use that one example to write off a whole city or country.

I'm worse than Lopakhin from Chekhov's The Cherry Orchard. I get it. I am who I am. As for what I wrote about Ukraine for a holiday, what the Ukrainians say about their own country is far worse than the honest comment I made. It has to do with "Familiarity does not breed contempt, IT IS contempt." We hate that with which we are familiar. For example, I hate Alabama, but anyone who is not an Alabamian who talks trash about earns my hatred. But yet I still agree with them deep in my heart. Because I know Alabama has its problems. I will give Ukraine this much, it is better than Alabama. That's my conciliatory gesture for the day. By the way, where are all the angry Ukrainians at about me saying I would not choose Ukraine for a holiday. I've only raised the ire of a Kiwi. lol 

[Hammer2722]

I'm worse than Lopakhin from Chekhov's The Cherry Orchard. I get it. I am who I am. As for what I wrote about Ukraine for a holiday, what the Ukrainians say about their own country is far worse than the honest comment I made. It has to do with "Familiarity does not breed contempt, IT IS contempt." We hate that with which we are familiar. For example, I hate Alabama, but anyone who is not an Alabamian who talks trash about earns my hatred. But yet I still agree with them deep in my heart. Because I know Alabama has its problems. I will give Ukraine this much, it is better than Alabama. That's my conciliatory gesture for the day. By the way, where are all the angry Ukrainians at about me saying I would not choose Ukraine for a holiday. I've only raised the ire of a Kiwi. lol

Be careful what you wish for Noelscot, LOL.... Hell hath no fury like a pissed off FSU woman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[noelscot]

This is the latest. All parties are guilty until proven innocent, including myself, and the names have been changed to protect the guilty.
As a side note, Rudyard Kipling's poem, "The Stranger,' rings so true right now. I am the STRANGER.
"This was my father's belief,
and this is also so mine,
let the corn be all of one sheath
and the grapes be all of one vine."
I've explained that our skin is all white, but it makes no difference. All that pan-caucasian stuff is a pipe dream when the rubber meets the road.
===========================================================================
I'm in Odessa now and you have no idea how glad I am to be out of Kyiv. It's like a cross between Mexico City and New York, but the people are not only rude but they have no idea what the hell I am asking for. Then, if you try to be worldly and use their language, they pretend like they don't understand you because of "akzent." The only two words you need to know in Russian are NYET (NO) and DASVIDANIYA (GOODBYE). NYET pretty means bugger off, and DASVIDANIYA means "ok, we're though here. now, go away!" The only person over here who I trust is Val, Jack Bragg's man, and their associates.
Saturday and Sunday were real bad days. K told me she did not have a place to stay for Saturday nite, and she asked if she could stay in kvartina with me. I said, of course, there is a spare bedroom ( I presumed that she would not want to sleep in the same room with me since we just met, and I personally think it would be improper, since I am old-school Christian), it will be horosho. Then she sends me text message from flat where she was staying telling me her brother forbid her from staying with me and that she would not come. Ok, that's fine. I understood. Nothing wrong with being cautious. But wait for it...........the next day she tells me she is coming by kvartina with her best friend, Anton, yes her best friend is some dude named Anton.  And by the way, she stayed with him the night before. (Yes, 2+2=4) They both claim that he has a girlfriend, and that they are just friends, but I never buy that, because men only want two things--romance and food. Any man who says he wants be friend with woman is either a faggot or a weakling. 
Ok, so they insist that I go to lunch with them. I wanted nothing to do with them at this point and was so livid that I blushed red. 
So we eat at Fat Belly, and he tells me through K, who has to interpet eveything, btw, that he has problem with his girlfriend. I told him in Russian "all of a man's problems come from women" and he shook my hand. I guess the subtext was lost on K.  She claimed all of a woman's problems are caused by men. Then they proceed to drink beer infront of me (I did not pay for anything except my own food - she did not eat), and Anton asks me why I do not drink. I have told K a million times that it is a categorical imperative that I WILL NEVER DRINK ALCOHOL--EVER. And the woman is sitting here asking "Why you not drink?" Like we are all the best of friends. I told her, like I have told her before, that there were alcoholics in my family, and that it hurt my heart seeing them behave that way, and that I do not want to hurt other people's heart by being a sot. Then they tell me that you only know a true person when he is drinking, as if I have something to hide.
 
So she insists that we go to the Schevchenko museum. I couldn't care less about Schevchenko. I know his work. I prefer Arseni Tarkovsky, who they don't even know, because it is not "classic." But I went along because I thought it meant something to her, and at this point I still had some idiotic idea that things might work between us. Let me repeat, for the peanut gallery, I AM AN IDIOT. I-D-I-O-T. So we go to the stupid museum. Old babushka makes us put on bootie shoe covers, and we have to check our coats. The museum has like 13 rooms, and you have to pretend like you care about what is in it, and go slow and read the little information card that is written in Angliiskii. By about the 7th room, I stopped reading the information cards, then angry babushka asked K, "Why he not read the card?" Because, I want to get the **** out of this stupid museum and go back to kvartina and be the hell away from her and her swarmy friend Anton.
 
Then my mobile rings. It is Val. Angry babushka stares me down for not silencing it, and I fumble to hit the power button to turn it off. It gets better...........
 
We FINALLY finish with this museum, and I try to call Val on my mobile. When you turn off these Ukrainian mobiles, it asks for two codes PIN (0000) and PUK. I did not know either, because I had thrown that stuff away (under the heady fog of jet-lag induced stupidity) after I bought the mobile from MTC. Didn't think I would need. So I say out loud "Oh, crap!" And K asks me what is wrong. I tell her and now she and Anton want to help me fix my phone. They're really trying to be nice. I tell them NYET,  but they insist. They follow me to the MTC store like I am some sort of baby, and hover over me. I was going to keep things simple and just buy a replacement phone, we are talking about $30. Cheap. Simple. I just point and say--"ya hochyyu mobile, SIM kart, 40 hrivna"--or I call Val, who actually knows the guy who works the store and can help translate for me. That's how stuff works here.
So the little teenagers running this MTC store do not know how to fix the phone without the original dokuments, K informs me. No ****. What a revelation. Like I did not know that I just needed to buy a new phone. We go through this roulette of going to different MTC stores dealing with their atrocious customer service, and I just finally go off and say, "YA NE PANEEMAYOO! DASVIDANIYA." Finally, I buy a new phone, like I said we would need to do from the very beginning.
 
I go home. Livid. They are following me. She says she is going to go take a walk with Anton. Fine by me. She says that I need time to not be angry. Ok, keep in mind we had previously purchased night train tickets to Odessa and it was a pvt car for 2. So I need the billets from her to be able to get on the train. The train leaves at 11pm. Val will be there to pick me up at 10pm.  She had said earlier she wanted to eat pitsa together. Ok. I wait until like 9pm, and she finally comes back to the kvartina.

Then the logistics of ordering a pitsa are discussed. I told her Val would handle it, but she is a picky eater and wants no meat, but anchoives, etc. Val assumed she was normal human being and ordered us coke and a works pitsa. So K. orders TWO pizzas, not ONE, rather than modifying the order like Val meant for her to do. So we have a parade of Domino's drivers bringing pitsa.

We eat the pitsa hurredly,  but before we do I ask her if she wants to say grace. She claims she is Christian but says she will not say grace before a meal. [To-day I was told by Annya that it is not a tradition here to say Grace, then I was reminded of Hank William Jr's song, "We say Grace. We say Ma'am. If you don't like it, I give less than a damn."] Whatever. Val shows up. He helps us eat the pitsa down to one box.
We rush like crazy for the train station. I'm locked into going Odessa, because I had already rented kvartina from Olga, who set me up with her associate Yulia. Then K tells me, Anton has a night train to Moskva, Roosiya, and we must wait him at the train station to say goodbye to him. I could give **** all about Anton. At this point she has disrespected me so badly that NO MAN would EVER put up with it.
So we wait Anton. And Val is like, "Who the **** is this guy?" And I'm thinking, yes, exactly. Who the **** is Anton? So finally it is time to get on the train. We go. Val helps with the bags. I get on the train and guess who wants to sit there with us eating all our ****ing pitsa and staying for ****ing ever? Anton. Val looks at me like, "Oh, boy." Then Val leaves.
I sit there silent, praying for the Lord's peace.. So then the train people are like "blah blah blah" in Russki-- the train is LEAVING. So Anton, take a ****ing hint, get the **** off, and go catch your OWN dam train. But it gets better, she wants to wait him at the platform and say her last goodbyes. You cannot make this stuff up! He gives me salo. I guess salo is a big deal over here. I tell him thanks.
I go out there to be a gentleman, and the train people look at me, see what is going on with them, and they think, boy, what crap that is.  Ok, so he shakes my hand. This is after I hear him telling her to call the police if I try anything! And he says all sorts of stuff in Russki, won't ****ing let go of my hand. The Train is LEAVING, by the way. I tell him NYET (**** off!), and that I don't speak Russian. So we get back on the damn train.  It's over. He's gone.
No, now he calls her wanting MORE PITSA. She runs to give it to him. We sleep in the nite train and I don't say anything. Awkward is an understatement. I tell her in the morning if she thinks I am a bad man who is going to hurt her, then no-one is making her stay with me. Let's just go our separate paths. She still insists on doing stuff with me, after completely insulting me and wasting my time.
Today she calls me and wants me to get some opera tickets. [She would meet me in city garden in 1 hour with her friend (another male friend). I'm the bad foreign man who you need a bodyguard to be around, I guess. I'm 160lb soaking wet and 200cm. If someone fears me it simply boggles my mind.]  My schedule is not exactly full, so I said ok. I walked to the opera house and bought the tickets in my broken Russian. The old babushka was very patient with me and kind. I get lost somehow on the way back to Gavannaya St. I sometimes walk and walk and walk at home to clear my mind, and I simply cannot do that in a foreign country. I found a money-changer. Happily the exchange rates were very favorable today. Then I asked the guard how to get back to Gavannaya street. He showed me on a map and really tried to help me, but we did not speak the same language and I had no idea what he was saying. I decided that I should retrace my steps and head back towards the opera house. K calls me right as I am passing a very loud construction site.  She says she cannot hear me. I holler over the phone, "I bought the billyets. I am on my way to City Garden. See you soon. Bye." I catch a taxi and show the man the map of where I am at. ALWAYS CARRY A MAP.
He drives me back to Gavannaya St. and I pay him. He didn't rip me off. It was a fair rate. I tip him. I call K twice, to apologize for being late, but she can't asnwer.  She calls me back and says she cannot meet me because she is "afraid of me." I try to explain that I was not yelling at her, but that I was walking past construction noises when she called and I had to holler. Then, I think to myself, hold on one damn minute here. I don't have to prove I am a good man to anyone, and this is twice that the implication (this time explicit) has been made that I am some sort of dangerous scoundrel. I can only tolerate so many insults before my patience wears thin, and I tell her, "You should not be with me if it makes you uncomfortable. I only want you to be happy. Do what makes you happy."
So I'm in a WOVO Chernobyl-esque meltdown, and now I reached out to other women, and one woman, A., asked me what happened, why did I come to Ukraine. I told her the truth and she said that I was treated poorly by K. I have no ill will towards K. I think she is a genuinely kind person, but I cannot deal with the many faces of K. One day we're the best of friends, the next I am thought of as rapist. So now I will travel to Mikolyaev (spelling?) to meet A., then meet a long-time correspondent, Z., from Poltava in Kyiv on 21 March, the day before I depart. Z. is a really sweet girl from the village. I'm also a simple man from the country (village), and maybe we will be compatible. I have always liked Z., but she has a lot going on inher life with her mom being sick. I prayed for her and her family and just now learned that her mom is doing better and will recieve physical therapy to recover from her stroke.
Right now I'm just going to look for a Catholic Church, and go pray on all of this. My faith and Jack's associates are what has gotten me through this so far. My story is not a horror story. Never think that I think such. But I advise guys coming over here to never go the WOVO route absolutely (at least save some phone numbers, and have an account set up on LL or somerhing as a back-up). I heeded the advice of ML and others, then made the proper adjustments when circumstances called for it.   
Anyway, I'm in Odessa until 3-20-12, and I will call some of my other lady friends. I really, really, really, do not like K. At all. Now I have two tickets for Rigoletto and will find a date, by golly.
Much love to the RWD community from Odessa, Ukraine. Peace be with you.
 
I hope you are well, and I send u much love. Best, Noel 

[Faux Pas]

Hang in there guy. One common theme amongst the thieves of RWD is "Always have a back up plan". Your circumstances with K are unfortunate but, happen all to frequently. K is not a serious woman, move on and nip it in the bud. Get with Val or Jack and get plan B going with a quickness. You are left to your own devices, relax and make a holiday out of it. Either that or cut bait and change your ticket. If you are as miserable as this last post indicates you might want to consider that.

Face it, everybody isn't cut out for the international dating and you might be one of them. Or, you might not. I suspect how you, if you, utilize your remaining time in an enjoyable productive manner will dictate where you fall.

Explore other avenues and other women. Lemons into lemonade.

Good luck Noel

[Hammer2722]

Sorry to hear it all went pear-shaped on you Noel. As FP said, try to make the most of your time in Odessa. The archeological museum is not too bad there and I'm sure you'll find other things to keep you occupied. Don't give up just yet. Good luck.

[noelscot]

Hang in there guy. One common theme amongst the thieves of RWD is "Always have a back up plan". Your circumstances with K are unfortunate but, happen all to frequently. K is not a serious woman, move on and nip it in the bud. Get with Val or Jack and get plan B going with a quickness. You are left to your own devices, relax and make a holiday out of it. Either that or cut bait and change your ticket. If you are as miserable as this last post indicates you might want to consider that.

Face it, everybody isn't cut out for the international dating and you might be one of them. Or, you might not. I suspect how you, if you, utilize your remaining time in an enjoyable productive manner will dictate where you fall.

Explore other avenues and other women. Lemons into lemonade.

Good luck Noel

They have really good tea here and I have some lemon to put in it.   Lipton. Mmmmm, reminds me of home.

[Daveman]

Well, in this game, feces manifests!


So, regardless of her behavior the obvious point is that the two of you just aren't a good match.  So, be glad you found this out very early on and wasted very little time with her.


On the other side of the coin, whether true or not, you tend to come across as fairly quick tempered, at least somewhat impatient, and easily annoyed.  These are traits that are truly incompatible with this whole process.  It seems that rather than try to understand the environment from which these ladies are raised, etc, you just want to rush in and pluck that Wife from the Ukrainian Tree of Marriage and be done with it.  Remember the scraggly chickens..   


I've also not found the people in Kiev or *anywhere* in Ukraine or Russia to be rude.  In fact, if anything, they have gone out of their way to communicate with me.  I don't mean that everyone swarms me, but no matter where I go the people treat me extremely well and often just begin speaking to me.  I can only guess that you are putting out some kind of vibe.  That or you are scarier than you realize! 


If there is anything you need in this -- it's patience...  sometimes it ain't easy.. if you do continue to search in the FSU and meet more women, the most often used phrase you'll use for a LONG time will be something like  "What the F was THAT??"  Seriously..  They'll do and say things that will surprise you... yeah, K's BS was intolerable... NEXT... but there will always be some weirdness in these relationships.  I think our biggest enemy is simply expectation.


Good luck with your future meetings. 

[LAman]

Jeez Noel.......I was wondering how things were going........but THIS?
Take a deep breath...maybe two......and relax.....me thinks your blood pressure has been up from day one and you kind of exploded. You can judge a man by how they react in stressful situations, you really went overboard.....maybe due to sleep deprivation, girl problems, and everything going wrong.....so here is some slack!!!
Too bad you didn't know layout of odessa centre better......believe it or not you were 5 minute walk from opera house, city garden, your flat...even afena mall....not sure how you got lost..all within 2 blocks!!!!
If you have time stop at buffalo 99 and eat outside to watch foot traffic...even maybe captain morgan's for sights!!! not sure if you are into nightlife........good luck. BTW.....Nikolaev is only good for girl watching... Good luck!!!!

[Miri22]

Noel,
Sorry to hear of your troubles, hang in there! Did you say in previous post you are 200cm tall ? You weigh 160 lbs? Please eat!

[noelscot]

On the other side of the coin, whether true or not, you tend to come across as fairly quick tempered, at least somewhat impatient, and easily annoyed.  These are traits that are truly incompatible with this whole process.  It seems that rather than try to understand the environment from which these ladies are raised, etc, you just want to rush in and pluck that Wife from the Ukrainian Tree of Marriage and be done with it.  Remember the scraggly chickens..   


I've also not found the people in Kiev or *anywhere* in Ukraine or Russia to be rude.  In fact, if anything, they have gone out of their way to communicate with me.  I don't mean that everyone swarms me, but no matter where I go the people treat me extremely well and often just begin speaking to me.  I can only guess that you are putting out some kind of vibe.  That or you are scarier than you realize! 


If there is anything you need in this -- it's patience...  sometimes it ain't easy.. if you do continue to search in the FSU and meet more women, the most often used phrase you'll use for a LONG time will be something like  "What the F was THAT??"  Seriously..  They'll do and say things that will surprise you... yeah, K's BS was intolerable... NEXT... but there will always be some weirdness in these relationships.  I think our biggest enemy is simply expectation.


Good luck with your future meetings.

Guilty as charged.   

[noelscot]

Jeez Noel.......I was wondering how things were going........but THIS?
Take a deep breath...maybe two......and relax.....me thinks your blood pressure has been up from day one and you kind of exploded. You can judge a man by how they react in stressful situations, you really went overboard.....maybe due to sleep deprivation, girl problems, and everything going wrong.....so here is some slack!!!
Too bad you didn't know layout of odessa centre better......believe it or not you were 5 minute walk from opera house, city garden, your flat...even afena mall....not sure how you got lost..all within 2 blocks!!!!
If you have time stop at buffalo 99 and eat outside to watch foot traffic...even maybe captain morgan's for sights!!! not sure if you are into nightlife........good luck. BTW.....Nikolaev is only good for girl watching... Good luck!!!!

I'm not a city boy and the signs are all in Cyrillic. Nuff said about getting lost.
I agree. I over-reacted. I predicted that I was going to get really mad before I went to the MTC store, and I said to them, "Hey, I can handle this. Don't worry. I had a great time at the museum. thank you for trying to help me. See you soon." I tried to be classy. I really did. One of my demerits is that I am impatient and quick-tempered. So to remedy these personal demerits (we all have demerits and the best you can do is to try to retard them, not comletely put out the fires), when I sense that I am about to get really, really mad, I will tell people that I am going to take care of something on my own, etc. Or just be honest and say, "I'm about to get really angry. Please allow me some time to compose my thoughts." Pretty much remove myself from the situation that I KNOW is gonna make me go TNT. I told her all of my demerits before I came to Ukraine. (And believe me, she has her demerits, too. But I repeat that deep down she is a really sweet person.)  It's not like any of this was a shocking revelation. I've got hot Irish blood in me. Hell, maybe I should just start back drinking. They'd really have been in for a treat if I'd taken them up on their drinking binge. But that was another one of my self-improvements. DON'T DRINK--EVER. At least I try to be a better person, and apologize when I am an asshole. I did apologize, by the way, and meant it. As for getting lost in Odessa, stuff happens.
I've fully decompressed now. Re-charged. And I held a mirror up to myself and evaluated how I was a jerk in some areas, but rightly miffed about some stuff. Tomorrow is another day. 

[LAman]

Hey Noel.....seemed with all that russian words in 'english alphabet' (many which I did not understand),  I figured you knew the cyrillic alphabet enough to read street names by them sounding out........that is how I became familiar to where I was.....
 
also just a thought......do you think K was on a WMVM trip and you were on a WOVO trip? makes you wonder who arranged the itinerary here.......maybe suggesting meet in kiev ( she also had another meeting) with you and there was really no brother involved......think about it.....

[JohnDearGreen]

Your problems with K seemed to revolve around the apartment issue.   1 apt w/2 BR, or 2 apts w/1 BR.  Didn't you discuss this with K previously?   2nd, an attractive lady, even in FSU, will have local men friends and/or boyfriends.  She seemed to be honest about it.  But if she had a separate apt. the male friend issue might not have occurred.  Don't ask, don't tell, or do you plan to ask the other ladies about their current male friends?

It always surprised me how the UW would almost always be willing to stay in my apt without even having met me....but I usually paid a terp to call them and thoroughly brainwash them before the meeting.  Maybe have your Val guy call the ladies to check and see if they have any last minute concerns.