From Ukraine with Love

[LAman]

Hey Noel......glad to see your at peace with yourself!!
Just wondering what happened to V &V....and your trip to vist her 100km away....she disappeared?
If 'Z' was your favorite, why did you not see her first? Sounds like she was lower on your list of girls to vist.
Are you leaving odessa early....maybe to poltava?..........another 'train' ride.......

[noelscot]

Hey Noel......glad to see your at peace with yourself!!
Just wondering what happened to V &V....and your trip to vist her 100km away....she disappeared?
If 'Z' was your favorite, why did you not see her first? Sounds like she was lower on your list of girls to vist.
Are you leaving odessa early....maybe to poltava?..........another 'train' ride.......

Oh, I am a dumbass. That's why. I  chose to spend too much time with a girl who was always willing to correspond vs. Z. Who has a life of her own and is a real girl. Now that I am here, the game has changed. We are talking all of the time. I will meet her in Kyiv on my last day here. I will come back in Dekabr if all goes well with Z. But no, she currently lives in a small village with her folks, and I'm not riding anymore damn trains. If I had it to do over again I would have reached out to JB and hit Kharkiv and Lugansk. Much better, sincere women there, I hear. You live and learn.

[noelscot]

To-day I crossed Mother-In-Law bridge in Odessa. It's a tradition for couples to write their names on a lock and put it on the bridge, but the smart guys, I am informed by Yuriy, always keep a back-up key. You don't wanna be locked to the wrong gal! The bridge is called Mother-In-Law bridge because before it was built by a Communist leader who had to go a very long way to get tasty pancakes from his mother-in-law, so he had a bridge built to make his travels easier. RHIP. Still trying to get dates at the last minute, but it is not easy in Odessa. Lots of women here are not serious. Not much time. I'm pretty much in tourist mode now and counting down the days until I meet Z. in Kyiv. Saw Afine mall today, the church, lots of other things. Odessa really is like a "big village" and the people are vey nice. It also has the multicultural feel of a place like New Orleans where many nationalities played a role in the city's founding. Met Yuriy's mom and baby brother. She was impressed that I knew some Russian. He told me I was welcome to call them if I ever wanted to socialize in the evenings and it turns out we are neighbors. At least I've made some friends and connections while in Ukraine. Odessa is a cool place. Just not the best place for meeting serious women. I mean, why would anyone want to leave Odessa? It rocks! 

[Phil757]

Nole, glad your trip has turned around.  I was in Kive from Feb.11 to Feb.25 and had a great time. Met a lady that was a friend of a friend when I was there in 2007 when I was on a mission trip in Kherson.  She took the train from Kherson to meet me and later told me she didn't want me to come to Kherson because the women are much pretty there. It was cold when I was in Kive but I was a lot of pretty women dressed to the max. Hope your trip keeps getting better.

[noelscot]

Well, to-nite I leave Odessa and go back to Kyiv on the night train. Odessa is okay, but I'll be glad to leave just because I've gotten homesick. You can really spend a month here in 1 nite, and I've been here since 3-12-12. You do the math. Um, yeah. 3-21 I'll meet my lady friend Z. in Kyiv. She is from a village near Poltava. She's taking the avtobus to meet me, and boy am I kicking myself for visiting K. instead of her. Remember the thread I started a while back about "frequency of correspondnence"? Z. and I have corresponded for a LONG time, but due to real world stuff, it got to be sort of touch and go (on both our parts), and I fell for the siren song of the "dedicated correspondent." I found out correspondence does not amount to a hill of beans, if you do not get along well in real life. Z's always been straight with me about how we should meet in real life, be patient, and have realisitic expectations. She told me she has a spare bedroom at her parent's house in the village, and it just seems like there is more congeniality with her than there was with K. I don't feel like "the bad foreign man" with Z. By the way, I don't care what culture you come from, it is RUDE to continually bash someone over the head about being a foreigner. With Z. my first and foremost goal is to get to know her, then see if we would like to take things further. If it is possible, we talked about her visiting me in the USA on a visitor's visa, or whatnot, and going to New Orleans, etc. Whatever the situation, I think it is good to go SLOW, take time to really know a person well, and treat this like any other sort of personal relationship. I discovered it is sort of weird to start out with the mindset, "Hey, I wanna marry a girl." Rather than, "Hey, let me find the RIGHT girl, then see what happens. Whatever will be will be."
Talked to a UM friend in Kyiv today and got an interesting take on the whole K. - Anton situation. He told me that she was probably trying to make Anton jealous, and was like. "Hey, look at me. I'm almost married. Better catch me before foreign man sweeps me off my feet." Then my friend told me, "It's better to have a puppy dog than a kitten. Dogs mind better than cats."
I'll fly back to the USA 3-22 on a really early flight and arrive Alabama 847p.m. First thing I'm going to do is go to a Greek cafe I know and ask out some waitresses on a date. I might take a ride down to Biloxi and NOLA just to clear my head. Maybe play some slots at the Isle of Capris and hit the Harrah's in NOLA. It'll just be nice to back in my own environment! OMG I want some sweet tea!!! 

[The Natural]

Wish you a nice train ride and best of luck in Kiev. Any photos forthcoming?

[noelscot]

Wish you a nice train ride and best of luck in Kiev. Any photos forthcoming?

Thank you! I will post some when I return to the USA.

[noelscot]

Oh wow! Boy, did I visit the wrong girl. Just met Z. tonite and had the most wonderful date ever! It's my last day here. Sigh. Upon reflection I should have cut my losses in Odessa and gone to visit her in the village where she lives with her parents. Maybe when she moves back to Poltava we can visit, if she feels like it would be horosho.
Let me tell you the latest funniest stories. It's about a train and Kyiv.
Last nite I caught the night train from Kyiv, and I was listening to Blackfoot's "Train, Train": "Train, train. Take me on out of this town." Yulia's husband Aleksandr helped me to the train station and we exchanged contact information. He'll visit New York soon, and will be getting his visa soon in Kyiv. I told him that if he ever needs anything at all, call me and I know some Russian folks who can translate if he needs anything, maybe put him in touch with some Ukrainians or Russians in New York. Ok, so Aleksandr helps me to the train, and I wrongly assumed Kirill had bought me two tickets for a pvt car.
So here I am, strolled out in the pvt car, my stuff is EVERYWHERE, and BLOOSH, a big bag slams me in the feet, and now there is a less than happy babushka and her husband in the pvt car, asking in Russki, basically, "WTF?!" So eventually, they go and get one of the train ladies with really pointy-toed shoes, and the military style hats and she is like "Pyat, iti SCHEST" (Translation: "Move to bunk SIX, you're in FIVE." So I comply, and say "Izvinitye!" I smoothed things over with the lady and her husband in my broken Russian, and apologized as profusely as I could. We all had a good laugh about it, hubby kissed her dasvidaniya, and then sat there silent for awhile. I said "Menya zvatu Scotty." (My name is Scotty) Then I said, "Ya hochyu churny chai. Vy?" She lit up about that and the tea sealed the deal. I've made a friend for life now. I told her "spokoinoi nochi" after taking some chai, and she said, "Ha, ha, [only in] moi dom." Yes, night trains are not great for sleeping. In the morning she pantomimed "how did you sleep?" "Ochen horosho," I lied. lol. Then the train people came in asking about billyets right after Val had called me to see when the train was arriving. "Billyets," I thought. "Please GOD, don't let me have slept past the Kyiv stop somehow." Finally, they send in this smoking hot UW in blue jeans that must have been painted on, and she asks me in English, "Do you need billyets?" "Befuddled, I answered, "No, my stop is Kyiv. We didn't miss Kyiv, did we?" Guess what........................................?
We didn't miss Kyiv.  lol.
So I arrive Kyiv a-ok. Val picks me up at the train station and imparts some valuable information about UW. Let's just say every instinct I had about K was validated by a guy who is an unbiased observer.
Z. calls me and says her avtobus leaves Lybny around noon. ****, I think, we're barely going to have any time together!  She finally arrives Kyiv around 4pm or so, then we feverishly tried to find each other in Kyiv. You guys would be proud of me because I exercised the patience of a Saint, as did she, while wandering around trying to find her based on vague descriptions of landmarks. Finally, I bit the bullet and asked Val if he could tell her in Russian. Did I mention that Val is a great guy? Finally, she told me, "Hey, I'm near the Porsche dealership near Biseeny." Bingo! I ran up there in a flash, and about near broke her in a huge bear hug. She's always been self-conscious about our height difference, and told me she was wearing "hills" to compensate. I am like a friggin' giant compared to her.
We went to a nice coffee shop, and had a wonderful meal. It was totally comfortable and both of us were happy to finally meet. She let me take some pictures of her and showed me a lot of pictures of her cats. She's admittedly a cat lady, because she has six cats, and one is with kittens. I joked her about how I could not take any cats off her hands. I showed her lots of photos of my folks and hometown.  She is staying with her girlfriend, then travelling home on avtobus early in the morning. I walked her down Krechatik to meet her friend N., and N. was kind enough to take some photos of us together. I hate that I fell for the lure of "steady correspondence" and devoted too much time to K.
We talked about maybe me visiting her in Poltava later, or her coming to the USA on a visitor's visa.
So I guess you can WOVO, but it better be Write the Right One, Visit the Right One. My right one was Z., and I wasted so much time on the wrong one.
The upside of this trip is that I have made lots of connections, and know who to call when I come back. I've made some friends too. For a first trip, this is actually more than I ever hoped for, more than I ever imagined. I give thanks to God.   

[LAman]

For the life of me Noel.....I don't understand you sometimes. You spoke of speaking on phone for many days with Z while in odessa.....why didn't you leave odessa early and spend more time with Z in kiev? I mentioned this to you on the 16th!!!!!
 A visitor visa???Good luck with that!!!!
Have a safe trip home!!!

[noelscot]

For the life of me Noel.....I don't understand you sometimes. You spoke of speaking on phone for many days with Z while in odessa.....why didn't you leave odessa early and spend more time with Z in kiev? I mentioned this to you on the 16th!!!!!
 A visitor visa???Good luck with that!!!!
Have a safe trip home!!!

Lots of details that I cannot discuss on here. Suffice it to say. Thanks for the good luck.

[JohnDearGreen]

For the life of me Noel.....I don't understand you sometimes. You spoke of speaking on phone for many days with Z while in odessa.....why didn't you leave odessa early and spend more time with Z in kiev?

The answer is probably in his previous comment quoted below.
(a) the grass-is-always-greener syndrome, and/or (b) He hated Kyiv.

...Anyway, I'm in Odessa until 3-20-12, and I will call some of my other lady friends. I really, really, really, do not like K........ I'm in Odessa now and you have no idea how glad I am to be out of Kyiv.

So noelscot, what is your status going to be now? 
Your choices are: (a) Looking 1-2 years.... or (b) Committed 0-1 years (one day wonder)

[noelscot]

The answer is probably in his previous comment quoted below.
(a) the grass-is-always-greener syndrome, and/or (b) He hated Kyiv.




So noelscot, what is your status going to be now? 
Your choices are: (a) Looking 1-2 years.... or (b) Committed 0-1 years (one day wonder)

I'm not committed to anyone until...well I won't use that sort of language on the forum...but you get it. lol
I liked my last day in Kyiv.

[noelscot]

This is a just a wrap-up of my trip.
 
First, thanks to Jack Bragg, Val, and their associates, who were all very honest and professional. I'd recommend their services for any person visiting Ukraine. You cannot go wrong.
 
Second, thanks to all the RWD members who offered me sage advice and wisdom when I was in the midst of a WOVO Chernobyl-esque meltdown. For those living vicariously through me, sorry I didn't listen better. But if it is any consolation, I learn quickly and rarely make the same mistakes twice.
 
LESSONS I PERSONALLY LEARNED (Your Experience is Your Experience)
 
1) If applying to universities after matriculating from high school, do not send an admission application, etc. to just ONE university. Moreover, do not just visit ONE university. One may be better than another, and I may miss something if I do not write them ALL, visit them ALL. The same holds true for women. Diversify.
 
2) It's okay to drive on the sidewalk in Ukraine. That's a metaphor for all sorts of stuff, and it is true.
 
3) Pick the brain of a UM. I learned the mind of UW from a UM. UW won't tell me what I really need to know, anymore than a magician will freely reveal the secret behind illusions!
 
4) I won't complain about AW behaving like primadonnas, then go to Ukraine and put UW on a pedestal, too. As Steve Martin said, "I like to put women up on a pedestal...so that I can look up their dress."   
 
5) From a knowledgeable UM, "The future is not HERE (Ukraine), it is THERE (USA)." This the advantage of the AM over the UM. So never let a UW waste time, when everybody knows the score.
 
6) USD are the main language you need to speak in Ukraine.
 
7) Fail to plan, and plan to fail. I should have prepared EXTENSIVELY about 3-4 months out from the trip.
 
8. Never fish the same pond for too long. I should have gotten the hell out of Odessa with a quickness and hit Kharkov and Lugansk (See 7)
 
9) A rolling stone gathers no moss. 
 
10) I like village girls better than city girls. Give me a farmer's daughter who is not spoiled rotten any day of the week.
 
11) It's not serious with a UW until...see #3.   

[noelscot]

Wish you a nice train ride and best of luck in Kiev. Any photos forthcoming?

Per your request, Nat.
Katya took hundreds of photos on her camera, but I do not have access to those since we're no longer talking,
http://s1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii619/noelscot/

[SkorBlizzard]

Nice trip report. I like that you were reporting in real time. It's hard to do that while focusing on your trip at the same time, but I can see the benefit of getting feedback at the same time.

I was actually in UA at the same time as you! It was my first trip. I just found this forum now.

I'm curious to know: what useful tidbits can you share about UW that you learned from a UM?

Thanks.

[JayH]

. For those living vicariously through me, sorry I didn't listen better. But if it is any consolation, I learn quickly and rarely make the same mistakes twice.

Good story and thanks for sharing.
Needless to say-- all the advice ,comments,info that comes from forums is so much more meaningfull--- AFTER-- you have done a trip--or while on it and  getting experience first hand.

[jeff9556]

Experienced travelers would perhaps disagree with your sleep-in idea on the first day instead opting to travel smarter so as to not be war torn on arrival. Time is precious.

Agreed. On those long haul flights you have to sleep - which means earplugs, sleep/eye mask and if you need them  - sleeping tablets. Drink plenty of water, not beer, wine or any other alcohol (you don't drink so no worries there, but many people make this tragic mistake of having "a few").

If you don't sleep and don't drink plenty of water you will have a mild "hangover" on arrival. Insert not eating enough, time zone differences, throw in a few travel bugs (lost luggage, missed connections etc etc) AND don't handle this well (you get stressed instead of staying calm) you will arrive worse for wear.

Just go with the flow, don't stress (very important not to stress, just relax and deal with shit as it happens, then move on), and my big tip is this - take a water bottle and some snacks - something salty and dry like potato chips or peanuts, and something sweet like chocolate. You can always fill your water bottle on the place whenever you like so you never get thirsty. Did I mention about drinking enough fluids, its that important. Take if from someone with 20 years and over a hundred long haul flights under his belt. Final tip is this - if you can afford it, move up a class, even if that means just paying a bit extra for the exit door row seat...

As for the tits up WOVO, well you got out of that one pretty cheap, good on you, and best of luck!

[ML]

Jeff, all good advice regarding the things like water, avoiding alcohol, etc.

But other than the good health measures . . . important to note that each person is quite different as to what works best for surviving long flights and being in a good state of 'awareness' when you arrive.

I, for one, can never sleep much the night before my flight and can't sleep at all on the plane.

Nevertheless, when I travel from west to east, I have no trouble at all being alert the first day there, and on subsequent days.

However, traveling east to west, I am wiped out for 4-5 days, no matter what procedure I follow.

[noelscot]

In case anyone is interested in an update on the aftermath of this trip report:


-in grad school for ESL
-teaching foreigners conversational English 1 day/week
-haven't talked to my friend Z since April
-don't really have the time or money to even think about another trip anytime soon, but if I do, I will carry plenty of immodium and TP.

-overall, a learning experience, though

[IAmZon]

Hope you enjoyed it.  It is best to understand extensive travel a couple of months after.

Best of luck

[Anotherkiwi]

Jeff, all good advice regarding the things like water, avoiding alcohol, etc.

But other than the good health measures . . . important to note that each person is quite different as to what works best for surviving long flights and being in a good state of 'awareness' when you arrive.

I, for one, can never sleep much the night before my flight and can't sleep at all on the plane.

Nevertheless, when I travel from west to east, I have no trouble at all being alert the first day there, and on subsequent days.

However, traveling east to west, I am wiped out for 4-5 days, no matter what procedure I follow.

+1
 
I have had no trouble with jetlag on long flights (USA, Europe, Thailand, Russia) in either direction, so long as I get some sleep at some time after I arrive.  I have far more problems closer to home - coming back from Australia I'm normally running in very low gear for four or five days after I get back.

[SANDRO43]

I have far more problems closer to home - coming back from Australia I'm normally running in very low gear for four or five days after I get back.

Well, it IS a long swim .

[Anotherkiwi]

Well, it IS a long swim .

True - and avoiding all those sharks takes a LOT of energy!

[Gator]

Never had a problem with jet lag, in either direction.  I usually played golf well immediately after returning.
 
Going to Vietnam with my combat gear on board was a real test.  24 hours of flying (including my starting position in Charlotte).  One hour stops in Hawaii, Wake Island and the Philippines.  Upon arrival outside Saigon ushered to tents in 110 F heat and monsoonal storms.  Couldn't sleep in that. Two days later I was with my assigned unit.

[LAman]

Jeff, all good advice regarding the things like water, avoiding alcohol, etc.

But other than the good health measures . . . important to note that each person is quite different as to what works best for surviving long flights and being in a good state of 'awareness' when you arrive.

I, for one, can never sleep much the night before my flight and can't sleep at all on the plane.

Nevertheless, when I travel from west to east, I have no trouble at all being alert the first day there, and on subsequent days.

However, traveling east to west, I am wiped out for 4-5 days, no matter what procedure I follow.

Wow, I am the complete opposite. When traveling west to east, while losing time as well as a day, I am tired yet can't get to sleep easily and takes me 3 days to truely get a good nights sleep. While coming home, east to west, I fly out in morning and get home with enough time to get a half day of work and go to sleep at my regular time without skipping a beat!!!!!!