Parasites, Cultural Differences, and other explanations

[IAmZon]

Just to make one of my final points on the subject, you guys - especially you senior ladies - seem to think that the number is everything.  What about League?  There are TONS and TONS of women in their 20's and 30's that have been hit severely by the ugly stick - men too.

There is a presumption here, and on MATCH.Com that the age is the definition.  I am not bitter! And, I am not arguing.  And, I am not looking for vindication or permission.  I get it.  I am an old man now LOL


So are ...
- Johnny Depp
- Robert Downey Jr.
- Rob Lowe
- Matt Dillon
- Keanu Reeves
- Russell Crowe
AND, other old guys from which THIS society projects as the image of a man.
and I forgot all the really old farts:)
- George Clooney
- Tom Cruise
and the really really old farts
- Pierce Brosnan
- Rupert Everett
- Dennis Quaid
- Denzel Washington
now I could go on to include
- Robert Redford
- Clint Eastwood
- and Turbo


But, I hope you get my point.

[pitbull]

Just to make one of my final points on the subject, you guys - especially you senior ladies - seem to think that the number is everything.  What about League?  There are TONS and TONS of women in their 20's and 30's that have been hit severely by the ugly stick - men too.

There is a presumption here, and on MATCH.Com that the age is the definition.  I am not bitter! And, I am not arguing.  And, I am not looking for vindication or permission.  I get it.  I am an old man now LOL


So are ...
- Johnny Depp
- Robert Downey Jr.
- Rob Lowe
- Matt Dillon
- Keanu Reeves
- Russell Crowe
AND, other old guys from which THIS society projects as the image of a man.
and I forgot all the really old farts:)
- George Clooney
- Tom Cruise
and the really really old farts
- Pierce Brosnan
- Rupert Everett
- Dennis Quaid
- Denzel Washington
now I could go on to include
- Robert Redford
- Clint Eastwood
- and Turbo


But, I hope you get my point.

R u saying you r in the same league as Johny Depp and Matt Damon?  Can we see more photos up-close please? And the bank account statement too? 

[IAmZon]

PitBull - are you a senior woman in the USA, supporting cougar cruises, and encouraging ALMOST every man over the age of 33 to wear an Ugly, Fat, Bald and Dumb T-Shirt - LOL

The point is NOT whether I - or anybody else - looks like a movie star and / or is CRAZY RICH.  More precisely, the point is that these are the male human beings that create the projection of what a man is in this society ... AND THEY ARE OVER THE HILL BASED UPON THE WELL MEANING OPINIONS OF SOME PEOPLE HERE

[Daveman]

On this forum they love to discuss the advantages of older men over younger men: like old men are more reliable, more intelligent, they work full time and are not students anymore, wiser, etc that makes them better family partners and better protectors and providers. If marrying an old guy you have the same or worse  life that you would have with a younger guy  and live like a low class person why to marry an old one?!

Love and marriage?! In love and marriage you go through good things and bad things TOGETHER, if he likes going through good things with her together, but leaves her with the problems by herself does he love her?

Vasilisa, I have never promoted the ideology of your first paragraph, i.e., that an older man is in any way better than a younger one.  I have always promoted individual choice and individual responsibility in making one's own decisions.  It's interesting though, what do you consider "low class"? 


and with the second, I agree with your assessment of love and marriage as I thought would be obvious in my posts in this very thread..     

David, I think you are an intelligent and  level headed guy, who would not call people ungrateful parasites without a good reason so I went back to find where everything started.  Everything started with a story in which a girl did not ask before marriage whether her future husband would be willing to pay for her education. She just assumed that he would be willing to do that.  You saw in her behavior a feeling of entitlement. And that is possible that her assuming was a result of the entitlement  attitude. But it is also possible that she assumed that because if she were in her husband’s position, she would pay for his education. It is very common among young people and  among the underdeveloped old to think that their beloved and beliked think, feel and would act the same way as  the young and  the underdeveloped do themselves. Therefore, naivety also could cause the girl to believe that her  future husband would be willing to pay for her education.

VWRW, Of course that is possible as well.  I know I have made a few mistakes in the cross cultural arena based on "this is what I would do".


I honestly could not remember what drew me into this thread so I had to go back and look...  it was the comment that her friend had to work in a store (gasp!) to help with the bills (god forbid) because he wouldn't pay her bills (what's the real story there? ) and refused to pay for her education (oh my, the AUDACITY!) followed by "this is sick!!"...  let's see, someone needs to work to help pay her own way in a job she's not crazy about... well glory be.. welcome to freakin' planet earth.    

A large segment of MOB seekers are just trying to leverage the vast inequalities (financial and otherwise) between the West and the developing countries to get themselves some cheapp young flesh, get the best "bang for their buck". Those are the real parasites on the industry in my opinion.
 

Indeed they are, just like a large number of the women are trying to leverage their young flesh to get the best "buck for their bang"... they are both parasites.  so wouldn't it be interesting if they found only each other?  Unfortunately, it's usually the romantic dreamers/believers and I'd guess mostly genuinely good people - male, female, east, west - who wind up getting hurt by the shits of the earth.

[Gator]

But, the strange (or interesting, or any  other such words you might want to use) thing is that even when the earning power is similar between man and woman, in FSU the man is still expected to pay because of the tradition thingy.

Where are these women?   I met only one RW who was independently wealthy (in her early 40s and owner of a paper company).  I gladly paid for our two meetings because I am old and thereby old fashioned.     She invited me to Alaska when she and her teenage son visited her niece there.  One problem:  her English, or lack thereof. 

So very few RW wives will arrive here on equal footing.  Why would it not be expected that an AM pay for everything during her first few years here?   Legally as a wife she has spousal rights - the husband is obligated if she has no way of supporting herself.   

But still, there seems to be the sense that the  FSU woman is looking to better her financial situation through a man....

Why would any RW with self-respect not want to improve herself?   
I have been retired for a long, long time, and I would never expect my wife to work.  The RW are dumbfounded by this.  First, they think a man should always be working to grow his money.  Second, they felt it important to work in case I lost my money.      

Surely your parasite charge does not apply to RW who come here, have babies and raise children (that is a huge and demanding job).
 

[Gator]

GQ,
Your attitude and everything you've done to support you wife is truly commendable! She is one lucky girl!
Unfortunately, you and men like you are such a small minority in the MOB business (as both this thread and my own experiences suggest).

Where do you get your facts.  I have met many AM-RW couples in Tampa and a few elsewhere.  Many men have done exactly what GQ did.   How is this a "small minority?" 
 
Please delete from your statistics those many AM-RW couples who have babies and the RW is happily staying at home (for the near future)?

Do you reside in the FSU and just read RW forums?
 

A large segment of MOB seekers are just trying to leverage the vast inequalities
(financial and otherwise) between the West and the developing countries to get
themselves some cheapp young flesh, get the best "bang for their buck". Those
are the real parasites on the industry in my opinion.

You sound very bitter?     Bitterness is ugly.   

[Vasilisa]

I used to work for an American family when I was a student, they had 3 children and they were saing money for sending them to  good colleges, my ex-husband's parents had very good friends of the family - who paid for the higher education of both kids-my husband's one and his sister's one.
My ex bough a house himself, but his father actually bought a house for his daughter when she was 35.
And all these people could also say about the greatest opportunities and the laws wth obligations but they prefered to help to the ones they love so much. I wonder why.

[pitbull]

Where do you get your facts.  I have met many AM-RW couples in Tampa and a few elsewhere.  Many men have done exactly what GQ did.   How is this a "small minority?" 
 
Please delete from your statistics those many AM-RW couples who have babies and the RW is happily staying at home (for the near future)?

Do you reside in the FSU and just read RW forums?
 
You sound very bitter?     Bitterness is ugly.

My "statistcs" are from reading this particular forum, other forums aimed at MOB-hunters, forums for RW abroad, and personal observations (I have met RW-AM couples where I reside too).
Gator, by now you should have learned that some RW tend to just say it like it is, no sugar coating. Not learning from one's experiences is not smart 

[Daveman]

I used to work for an American family when I was a student, they had 3 children and they were saing money for sending them to  good colleges, my ex-husband's parents had very good friends of the family - who paid for the higher education of both kids-my husband's one and his sister's one.
My ex bough a house himself, but his father actually bought a house for his daughter when she was 35.
And all these people could also say about the greatest opportunities and the laws wth obligations but they prefered to help to the ones they love so much. I wonder why.

And everyone knows the answer to that question.  Vasilisa, what you don't seem to quite fathom is there is a VAST difference between having the desire to do something for someone you love and some idiot expecting you to do it just because the idiot thinks it's your obligation.

[pitbull]

PitBull - are you a senior woman in the USA, supporting cougar cruises, and encouraging ALMOST every man over the age of 33 to wear an Ugly, Fat, Bald and Dumb T-Shirt - LOL

The point is NOT whether I - or anybody else - looks like a movie star and / or is CRAZY RICH.  More precisely, the point is that these are the male human beings that create the projection of what a man is in this society ... AND THEY ARE OVER THE HILL BASED UPON THE WELL MEANING OPINIONS OF SOME PEOPLE HERE

I am out of the 20-22 age range, so probably qualify for being a senior woman in your book. What's wrong with cougar cruises?
I also don't see a point you are trying to make, could you rephrase? The old geezer, the Playboy owner, is clearly over the hill, which doesn't prevent him from having 20 y.o. girlfriends. What does this have to do with an average 80 -y.o. Joe in this society?

[Vasilisa]

Vasilisa, I have never promoted the ideology of your first paragraph, i.e., that an older man is in any way better than a younger one.  I have always promoted individual choice and individual responsibility in making one's own decisions.  It's interesting though, what do you consider "low class"? 

Dave, it wasn't for you, it was for those older guys who think that bringing a girl to the country means that they are done with their spousal duties.

Many girls n Russia have a higher education, they don't live a rich life but they have a cultural life, they go to the movie theatres, gyms, shopping centers, they don' depend on anybody and nobody is teaching them how to live, sometimes they have cars, their own places to live, circle of friends, they can afford going to  resort once or twice per  year with friends,they don't have to learn a foreign language, if they live in big cities they have a great cultural life.

 When they move to the US in order to create a family with the man they love and get an old selfsh guy who sends them to work in a dollar store to pay off their tickets to the US and the main entertainment is drinking beer in a pub and eating pop corn while watching TV sitting on an old couch with an old husband with a beer can in his hands who says that he doesn't have money for anything and her salary in a dollar store is not enough to go to the opera  but it doesn't matter because they love each other and money is a small thing I consider that going from a middle class style life to a low class style life.

And if the husband doesn't do anything in order to help his wife to feel better but prefers drinking beer instead telling for months about bringing her to a better country so she is supposed to be thankful forever and not to ask about anything else I'd use the opportunities he is talking about, get a students' loan, get a job and get the man who loves me and is proving his love every day.

[Vasilisa]

And everyone knows the answer to that question.  Vasilisa, what you don't seem to quite fathom is there is a VAST difference between having the desire to do something for someone you love and some idiot expecting you to do it just because the idiot thinks it's your obligation.

Who said that the girl is sure that it is his obligation? She may not be happy about that life that she has right now and she shared her thoughts about her life with her friend who posted that on the forum, but who says the girl is sure that her husband must pay for the college

[IAmZon]

Every woman I have met from Eastern Europe / Russia has been ambitious - ALMOST TO A FAULT. 

[Gator]

My "statistcs" are from reading this particular forum, other forums aimed at MOB-hunters, forums for RW abroad, and personal observations (I have met RW-AM couples where I reside too).
Gator, by now you should have learned that some RW tend to just say it like it is, no sugar coating. Not learning from one's experiences is not smart 

 
To most people perception is reality.  However, some people have no analytical skills and instead are driven and blinded by their emotions.  And once formed, their perceptions will not change regardless of the facts. 

[pitbull]

 
To most people perception is reality.  However, some people have no analytical skills and instead are driven and blinded by their emotions.  And once formed, their perceptions will not change regardless of the facts.

Exactly! And those analytical skills are very hard, almost impossible, to train 

[ECOCKS]

On this forum they love to discuss the advantages of older men over younger men: like old men are more reliable, more intelligent, they work full time and are not students anymore, wiser, etc that makes them better family partners and better protectors and providers. If marrying an old guy you have the same or worse  life that you would have with a younger guy  and live like a low class person why to marry an old one?!

Love and marriage?! In love and marriage you go through good things and bad things TOGETHER, if he likes going through good things with her together, but leaves her with the problems by herself does he love her?

Correction, SOME want to rationalize it.

My feeling is that it's a joke here and it's a joke over there. Alas, no one wants to listen that from a guy because _______ (they come up with dozens of reasons that guys can't really know about these things...much like you try to say that Westerners cannot understand about growing up Russian).

I think it's great that you're spelling it out so bluntly and hope you keep making it clear.

That said, there ARE guys who believe it's worth the price for a few years of being able to pretend they found the love. Just as you point out the reality of being a family they truly want to live in the fantasy for as long as they can, thinking they will pay the price down the road.

I'm on the side of those guys nowadays. As long as the woman understands what she's getting into and telling the guy what he wants to hear, sleeping in his bed, strolling around the neighbor's pool in her bikini pissing off the western wives that's great for both of them. When she has gotten what she wants, she'll leave and I just don't want to listen to either of them whining about lost love, shattered dreams or how horrible everything is now for them.

If their eyes are open and they walked this path deliberately, without illusions to reality then I think it's GREAT. The guy gets what he wants (for awhile) and she gets what she wants (along the highway of life).

WIN-WIN.

Just call a spade a spade and not a shovel.

[Gator]

Exactly! And those analytical skills are very hard, almost impossible, to train 

If I were you I would ask for a tuition refund. 

[ECOCKS]

R u saying you r in the same league as Johny Depp and Matt Damon?  Can we see more photos up-close please? And the bank account statement too?

Agreed, I'm thinking Pierce would be dating some 55 year old Pizza Hut counter worker if he was a homeless guy sleeping at the local mission.

[Gator]

  Some of you are using biology terms incorrectly. Here are some correct terms IF any of you are interested (I apologize yet us nerds can not help ourselves, much like Sandro when someone spells incorrectly as to yield an entirely different meaning)

A parasitic relationship is one in which one member of the association benefits while the other is harmed (e. g., tick) .

Mutualism is any symbiotic relationship between organisms of different species where both individuals derive a benefit.  There are sub-categories such as resource-service mutualism (e. g., nectar in flowering plants and  and pollinating bees).   As with biology terms, sub-categories can be further described as obligate  (both species depend upon the other for survival) or facultative (the two species can live together but it is not necessary for survival).

Commensalism is a  relationship between two organisms where one  benefits but the other is neither harmed or helped (e. g., hermit crabs receiving housing in the abandoned shells of other animals).
So what classification do we place the AM-RW relationship?  As Ecocks describes the relationship, it is WIN-WIN. 
 
That would make it facultative resource-service mutualism.    You can fill in the blanks as to what constitutes service and resource.

 

However, IMO it is not reasonable to classify a AM-RW relationship as any of these biological terms.  Why?  Two reasons. 

First, the attraction between an AM and a RW in a healthy relationship is about emotions   and not resources or services (thus it is psychology and not biology). 

Second, the RW organism is evolving.  While she may be dependent upon the man's resources and guidance in the beginning years, she will assimilate to her new environment and eventually become independent, a totally different species in biological terms.   
 
 

[ECOCKS]

I LOVE THIS THREAD!

Tell 'em what you really think girls!

GO! GO! GO!
 
 

[mies]

On this forum they love to discuss the advantages of older men over younger men: like old men are more reliable, more intelligent, they work full time and are not students anymore, wiser, etc that makes them better family partners and better protectors and providers. If marrying an old guy you have the same or worse  life that you would have with a younger guy  and live like a low class person why to marry an old one?!

Love and marriage?! In love and marriage you go through good things and bad things TOGETHER, if he likes going through good things with her together, but leaves her with the problems by herself does he love her?

Excellent points.

[pitbull]

Excellent points.

+100

[OlgaH]

Exactly! And those analytical skills are very hard, almost impossible, to train 

Pitbul, nobody's perfect  When it seems to be an experienced person can not simply recognize behavior of a gold digger or pro-dater more over glorifying it and after so many years of dating finally marries a wrong person... and after tries to talk about analytical skills... what can I say!   

[Misha]

forums for RW abroad

I wonder to what extent such forums are slanted. Based solely on my wife and other RW that I know, most women who are happy in their lives don't even know of the existence of such forums. In the case of my wife, she knows they exist, I even gave her the links, but she has zero interest in forums. What little time she spends online is usually on odnoklassniki and vk.

[pitbull]

I wonder to what extent such forums are slanted. Based solely on my wife and other RW that I know, most women who are happy in their lives don't even know of the existence of such forums. In the case of my wife, she knows they exist, I even gave her the links, but she has zero interest in forums. What little time she spends online is usually on odnoklassniki and vk.

Good question. I feel those forums are fairly representative. Do you think RWD and other such fora are slanted as well?
It might be just a personal preference thing. Like you spend a lot of time on those forums while your wife prefers different forms of entertainment. Looks like both of you are happy though!