Possible Abusive Situation

[catzenmouse]

This was posted on another list with the blessing of the original poster I am putting it out here as you are some of the most informed people around.

Ken
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  My wife has made a friend here where the husband has essentially married her so he has someone to clean, do laundry, and cook for him and his teenage daughter.  They married in Ukraine, and she really had every intention of making a great relationship, but he is nothing like the guy he was when they met and spent time together in Ukraine.  What he has been doing is bordering on abuse, and it has been getting progressively worse in just months. 
  
  On one hand, she is willing to just go on back home to Ukraine, but she has nothing left there to go back to.  She's been wanting even basic things she needs just to get by - food, feminine products, underwear, socks, and he is not willing to spend a dime on her.  She is trying to find a way to get work just so she can afford her own things, but he hasn't been willing to help her get a Social Security Number, transportation(not even a bike which she is willing to use), and he is afraid he will lose his free housekeeping.
  
  After hearing the rude things he was saying about his wife, and even the things he was saying to my wife, part of me feels like beating the crap out of this user.  Anyway, years ago I remember seeing comments from some people that have helped other women going through things like this.  My advice is that she file for divorce, but since they married in Ukraine, I don't know how she can get things to work in her favor here.
  
  Does anyone have any recommendations or help?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Son of Clyde]

How far along are they? Has she received the temporary green card?

Too bad it is not as simple as her finding a job and filing for a work visa. Can this be done? She is already here it is a matter of dumping the jerk and moving as far away as possible. Can she file on her own for the EAD?

I see no way out unless someone is willing to take her in and it be as far away as possible from the husband. If he filed the AOS and she has the temp green card there may be time for her to get established somewhere else. I don't know if there is even an option to file for a work visa and for permanent residence.

The husband has done her no favors.

[Maxx]

I usually help the guys accused of false abuse charges by FSU women to get Green cards but I am against abuse of all kinds. BTW here is chart that clearly shows what is considered abuse and below it are links to discussions, websites and other links on what can be done and who to go to to get help. 

 



 

 Russian language links:


http://russianwomenabroad.com/PAGE371a.html
http://russianwomenabroad.com/vict.html
http://newwoman.ru/letters_213.html
http://www.rusnetusa.com/reference/showart.asp?idref=337
http://www.owl.ru/win/books/nasilie/pril_vi.htm

Maxx

[Maxx]

My strong recomendation is for her to get to an immigration attorney. Usually a consulation visit costs a few hundred bucks. If she hasn't got it or can't get I will send it to you for her. I just leave on vacation on Thursday so you have to act fast.

The immigration attorney will give the best advice on how she can increase her chances of getting an I-360 spousal abuse petition processed (I am strongly against anything that isn't 100% true in regard to these). Also it is necessary to get a proper plan otherwise she could fail. My immigration attorney told me a few weeks ago that one of his clients is a RW who is back in Russia waiting on a spousal visa from her second American husband. However she filed her abuse petition on her first American husband in such a messed up manner the immigration judge rejected it. If she had gotten proper legal council none of this would have happened. So there this couple sits, the AM in America and his Russian wife unable to get back into the country.   

Look in the Yellow pages for immigartion attorneys with Russian translators on staff. There should be at least a few as there are here in Minnesota and we have a much smaller Russian community that your area.

Maxx   

[catzenmouse]

Maxx, SoC,

 I'm sending the meat of your replies to the person who asked me to post this. I think the lady in question has enough spiritual support (and probably enough financial support (that was very kind of you Maxx)) to get the help she needs in that respect. It seems like the actions to be taken and the process to do this are what is lacking.

Thanks much,
 Ken

[Maxx]

Ken, there are huge resources out there to take care of this lady. She just needs to get proper local guidance from an attorney. Most of the problems in these situations happen because people proceed without a well thought out plan. They run off and rely on friends and the attorney is the last person they see. He should be the first.

Take the divorce as an example. The immigration attorney can direct his client to the right divorce attorney. Usually these attorney's have much experence representing immigrant women in divorce negotiations in these types of situations. Most divorce attorneys know nothing about immigration law and how certain aspects of can impact divorce cases. Also there is the possibility the husband would agree to pay for her attorney's costs if they are kept modest and without (excessive) financial demands.

Maxx

[Leslie]

Ken,

The advice given by Maxx is spot on.  This lady needs to see an immigration attorney.  Perhaps you can help her by finding one who is local and she can visit for an initial consultation.

Advise her NOT to believe in the advice given by Russian women friends or from posting a "help me quick" thread on RWA.  Getting good advice from the beginning is essential.  The main tactic used by controlling men is IGNORANCE.  Whilst a woman does not know her legal rights she can be controlled.....

If what you have posted about this guy is true then this lady need not worry about her immigration status. 

 

[Maxx]

Leslie is right and not just about me . RW often times give very poor advice.  

She needs a plan and some people there that can help her with the plan. Keep everything in the stealth mode.

IMO she should make this transistion as soft as possible. There is NO reason this guy needs to go to jail or face criminal charges. Her attorney could give the best advice on how to make this as smooth as possible.

Women's shelters do these types of cases but they usually go for the throat with the men. Also these shelters are unpleasent places to stay. In this area ours up till last year had no windows. Also I know that a few years ago everyone slept in a dorm setting with 12 people to a room. It still might be this way. Each woman must tell where she is going and with who. There are curfews. No drinking. Must take turns cleaning and doing laundry and so on. quote: "Like prison!" You might not want to pass this information on. I just thought you should know.

Maxx     

[catzenmouse]

Maxx, Leslie,

 Thanks much. I agree with your analysis completely. Unfortunately  I do not have any direct contact with the woman and am only hoping that  the advice that you are giving here is being accepted and used. I send  each response to this thread on to the person who asked me to post it  here when I told him there are some very, VERY knowledgeable people  here who know what is what and how to go about taking care of things  like this. I told this person that they should join here (as he is  married to a FSUW also for about 5 years I think). I have met this  person and his wife one time and found them both to be decent people so  I am taking them on thier word here and maybe I'll come out of this  with $hit on my face but my instincts are generally pretty good with my  impressions about people (except for my ex-wife :?). So for all of you, I again want to thank you for your time and information!

Ken

[Albert]

Quite interesting these stories we read here; and how quickly we jump on the bandwagon.  Usually it is a guy posting about the bitch RW.  We tend to believe completely.  But what story would the RW tell, if she had the chance.

And now we have the story about the wronged RW and we feel sorry that she is stuck with a SOB husband, and want to help.  But what story would this husband be telling?

What if this husband had posted here first?  Could we quickly jump off his bandwagon onto the wife's?  What if we heard both stories nearly simultaneously, but didn't know they were married to each other?  Could we be schizophrenic enough to go down both paths at the same time, sympathizing with both parties?

[BillyB]

Need more info Ken. So the woman has to cook and clean? As of this moment I'm forcing myself to cook and clean. Am I abusing myself? One thing I learned is when someone is compaining, it's probably not as bad as they say it is. You have mentioned that someone mentioned "borderline abuse" coming from the man. So that means there is no abuse unless you use the Maxx's chart that makes even the media sexually abusing women since they use the term MOB quite often when referring to women that came over here on a K-1 or K-3.

If a man came on here and said his wife wants a him to put food on the table and a roof over her and her child's head and he's being forced out of the house to go to work. I would tell him "You made your bed, lay in it" and "grow up and be a man".

The man in question may be far perfect but the reality is that him and his wife are living a better life than most people in the world. Life can't be all that bad unless you're incapable of being pleased. I question anyone that has nothing but bad things to say about their significant other. There has to be something good about this man. He seems to have the right to full custody of his own daughter since she needs to be looked after full time.

Marriage is supposed to be between a man and woman and not broken or interferred with by any man. Is it really necessary and urgent to bring in women's support groups and lawyers at the moment? Guess what they will achieve? Based on the limited info provided, I recommend marriage counseling first. All methods and means should be used to save the marriage before bringing in people to break it up.

[Maxx]

Billy makes good points as more information is needed. In my above posts I urge the first use of the mildest councilor, the immigration attorney. An immigration attorney can tell you if it is an abusive situation as considered by the USCIS. If not, it may be just another difficult marriage needing repair with counciling etc. Divorce attorneys on the other hand get paid to break up marriages, it's their solution. Women's groups rather like breaking up families and frankly speaking making the men suffer.  

[Leslie]

Well I stand by every word I have posted on this thread.

This lady needs professional advice on her immigration status.  This is one area where the recent IMBA act is VERY helpful.  It ensures all immigrant women are informed of their rights from the beginning.

Max is right though.  Often these situations are left to fester until the woman runs to a "woman's shelter" in desperation.  The embittered feminists who run such establishments are often motivated by revenge rather than problem solving.  There are very few happy endings once these witches get involved.

I don't know these people.  I have not made any judgement either way. 

Albert I am NOT credulous when it comes to "sob stories" .  I don't support the locker room mentality found on other boards. 

 

[Daknack]

Need more info Ken. So the woman has to cook and clean? As of this moment I'm forcing myself to cook and clean. Am I abusing myself? One thing I learned is when someone is compaining, it's probably not as bad as they say it is. You have mentioned that someone mentioned "borderline abuse" coming from the man. So that means there is no abuse unless you use the Maxx's chart that makes even the media sexually abusing women since they use the term MOB quite often when referring to women that came over here on a K-1 or K-3.

If a man came on here and said his wife wants a him to put food on the table and a roof over her and her child's head and he's being forced out of the house to go to work. I would tell him "You made your bed, lay in it" and "grow up and be a man".

The man in question may be far perfect but the reality is that him and his wife are living a better life than most people in the world. Life can't be all that bad unless you're incapable of being pleased. I question anyone that has nothing but bad things to say about their significant other. There has to be something good about this man. He seems to have the right to full custody of his own daughter since she needs to be looked after full time.

Marriage is supposed to be between a man and woman and not broken or interferred with by any man. Is it really necessary and urgent to bring in women's support groups and lawyers at the moment? Guess what they will achieve? Based on the limited info provided, I recommend marriage counseling first. All methods and means should be used to save the marriage before bringing in people to break it up.

 

Once again, BillyB is the man.  Thus far I have seen nothing that shows this guy is a monster in any definate way.  She doesnt have a car?  Can she drive one?  Has she passed a drivers test?  There seems alot if missing data here, and I am initially dubious of ANYONE that claims abuse without a mark or two to show.  Sometimes people can be taken advatage of, and people may have work unevenly distributed in a marriage but thats not abuse.  When you toss the word abuse around and dilute its meaning like that you lessen the impact of real abuse.  Ive gotten so jaded that I honestly think anytime I hear ANY woman tell me she is abused I immediatly think shes a liar unless I see marks.  Now I know thats not the way thinks should be either, but the term is so diluted its lost its impact.  Take a look a Maxx's "circle o' abuse".  Calling someone a MOB is abusive??  I guess nearly every poster here is an abuser!  Threating to report  working under the table is abuse???  Since when is reporting a crime abuse?  Maybe I feel abused throwin 1/3 of my money into useless social programs with dubious (at the very best) results.  Not letting her get job training is abuse?  Hell my mom and dad didnt pay for my college Im doing it late in life on my own dime.  I guess I was an abused teen.  That crap costs $ and money that may not be available then (maybe not ever).  There are tons of people working shit jobs because they cant afford to retrain themselves.

This whole measure of "abuse" makes light of real abuse.  If your husband or wife says something bad to you they arent abusing you, they are just an asshole and you have to face that you married an asshole (or divorce them).  Then at the same you have those that are very abrasive (like myself) and will point blank tell someone they are a moron when they are acting like a moron.  They might not be diplomatic, but they arent abusive.  This to me doesnt seem to be any type of special case.  Shes not getting beaten, shes cleaning the house (boo hoo most RW when they come here do that as they are not able to work right away), and her husband is abrasive.  All of a sudden this is an abused women, a victim slaving away somewhere.  Hell I think I have several bosses that abused me I should probably sue (ala the Amercian tradition) and live life off my jury awards.

[Son of Clyde]

Ken, I know a very good immigration attorney.

He is in Baltimore and a large portion of his clients are from all over the country.

The only problem is that he speaks no Russian. I believe there may be a free (or very reasonable) one hour consultation.

[catzenmouse]

Guys,

 I want to say again "Thank You" for all of your insights and information. It makes me proud to be a member here to see the support given when the need arises. There are every kind of different personalities here and sometimes we don't like each other very much. But this truly shows the caliber of the people here and how in a time of crisis those differences are forgotten and the heart of the issue takes priority. You guys and gals are alright!

 I am sure there are two sides to this story and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

 I saw another post that the woman has moved into the house of the man and his RW wife (it was his post that originated this topic) and I have been sending all of your comments to him and his wife. Other people have also been advocating marriage counselling as the first option. If I was in the middle of this and had any more information to give you I would and if I see anything else I will let you know.

Ken

[Maxx]

"Maxx's abuse wheel"

Actually it's something the woman's shelter up in Duluth, Minnesota put together.  

I have been rather upset over the low threshhold of what is considered abuse nowadays. "Emotional, psychological or verbal abuse" ? What's that? An argument? Yet this can be twisted to call in the authorities. Once 911 is called or a visit to a woman's shelter, school councilor or social worker by law they are required to take action. Even if the woman says on second thought with reflection "He is fine! leave us alone!" they cannot back off. V.A.W.A. requires the authorities to prosecute. Take Golden25 case as example. The district attorney would love to drop the case but he can't. He is forced by V.A.W.A. to prosecute.  

What I am saying is this lady better know what she is dealing with before she consults with the wrong people. An immigration attorney with his/her client confidentiality privilage is the safest bet to get information.

Maxx

 

 

[r0gera]

I would have to say that I agree with Leslie and Maxx.  Although it may or may not be abuse it is not right.  If it is true that:

"She's been wanting even basic things she needs just to get by - food, feminine products, underwear, socks, and he is not willing to spend a dime on her."  

and

"he hasn't been willing to help her get a Social Security Number, transportation(not even a bike which she is willing to use)"

She needs help from friends to remove herself from the situation she is in and move forward.  I would be willing to pay for a translator if necessary.  PM me and I can set you up with mine if it would be helpful for her to find out how to correct the situation.  Perhaps she could call the Attorney Son of Clyde knows and find out what her options are?

[Rando]

I agree with BillyB ...not nearly enough info.... I have seen how some Rw can stretch the truth and I sure dont see abuse here yet. If she is truely being abused then she should leave.....return to whereever and start over ...or stay here and do whatever she wants....dont forget these are the same steps a GCG uses when shes ready to move on to the next mark.

Anyone remember Muck from the other site....???? His RW had stories too ...fortunatly we got to hear his side....she was a lazy slob who had a hard time making herself tea....bitched about everything and had a daughter who she was raising to be a twin of herself.

I take this womans story with a huge grain of salt....shes just not happy and wants to move on.....dont let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out....thats what Id say...

Whats she in danger of....dish pan hands???? Sounds like a lazy RW to me.....and even if she right.....shes out now .....she doesnt need an attorney.....she needs a dishwasher...:-)

Abuse is certainly overused and n o one should know that better than Max....that circle of his is a joke....made up by the feminatzis from the shelters....

Who helped me through when my wife was fuc$ing her boss and she threw me out of my house and before the marriage was disolved by divorce found herself pregnant..hahaha....but still I had to pay alimony...I ahd to find a place to live and so on and so on.....

Buck it up......this isnt American TV....this is American real life....we work harder than hell here and everybody needs to pitch in.....this woman is bitchin about dishes.....?????Send her ass back.....no one needs her!

[Leslie]

First off we don't have enough information to make judgements on this particular case. Period.

BillyB and DaNack I hear what you are saying.  You make valid points but what you think constitutes abuse has the same value as an "old goat's fart".  The law sides with the social workers who created that chart (probably for training purposes).  You might not agree that some of the with the definitions of abuse on that wheel chart but the law will judge a man's behavior on those criteria.

This is reality.

You can bitch about it for the rest of your life.  This situation is not going to change.  In fact on March 6th IMBA became law and the guy's situation got much worse.  The USCIS and social workers will implement sections of this act which are within their jurisdiction.  Certain as night follws day.

Rando,

To my knowledge Muckraker is still married.  I think the guy you are referring to used to post as "Bean" 

If you made the comments in your post to your wife in front of a witness it would constitute sufficient proof in a court of law that you are an abuser. 

"Send her ass back.....no one needs her!"

The idea that a guy can send his wife back to Russia(or Ukraine)  is a complete fiction. You have no right whatsoever to interfere with your spouse's immigration status. 

Threatening your spouse in this way is abuse. 

There was a guy who used to post on PL.  He tried to send his wife back.  He was convicted of abuse and was lucky to keep his sorry ass out of jail....

[Daknack]

Dude, you should take your member out of your wife purse, and remember what it is to be a man.

Complaining about a crappy law is the first step to getting to getting it changed.  It sickens me how quick you people will sell out your brothers.  Its abuse to send yourt wife home?  I guess her parents were abusive.  Your a part of the problem, and your kind is as bad if not worse then then women, because you enable them to do such things.

She gets immigration and someones "sorry ass" is lucky to be out of jail?  What kind of sick logic is that???  Thats not abuse??  OT lose your freedom not even go back home?  You sicken me to the point I want to vomit just to get the taste of the BS your shovelling out of my mouth.

[Rando]

Oh good lord a flipin liberal extremeist who takes every word on its own without using his brain to sort out the real message,

You are correct ....it was Bean....

You may agree that dishwashing is abuse but that doesnt make it so....and everyone knows you cant send someone back....read my whole post before picking out a phrase and acusing it as abusive....defending this kind of lame behavior as abuse makes you part of the problem and the fact that the law protects this lame behavior doesnt make it right.....

Im thinking this woman is a lazy slob...and a cry baby....probably had her mother wait on her hand and foot and now she finds herself missing mom....

I dont beleive your story about someone going to jail for trying to deport someone.....one is either a legal or an illegal alien....nothing more or nothing less.

Let me restate....This woman should return to Russia.....we have enough of her kind here already....

And Leslie.....I sure hope to hell you never have anything to do with the law.....now go do your dishes like a good boy...:-)

[r0gera]

Daknack,  I think you are wrong on this one.  I have disagreed with Leslie on numerous things and think that he sometimes lacks tact in the way he expresses his opinion but I believe he is correct. 

I have no idea where anybody got the idea that this lady is a lazy whiner.  In the original post there is not enough information to formulate a conclusion either way.  However there is enough information to indicate that this lady is possibly in an abusive relationship.  If she is then anyone who would support an imaginary "brotherhood" is out of line.  Threatening deportation of an immigrant wife is a warning sign of abuse and control.  I don't think threatening to divorce her and kick her to the curb falls into the same category.

If I see a kid with suspicious bruises I have a legal (state law) and moral responsibility to see that it is investigated.  It does not mean the parents are abusers but for the sake of the safety and well being of the child I am required to report it.  My personal moral obligations would also be similar in spousal, elder, or child abuse.

As far as whining about the marriage broker act goes he is correct too.  We can whine all we want but it will do nothing to change the facts.  And the fact is that we need to learn the new rules and play the game.  If it is challenged and changed it will have nothing to do with any of us on this board unless someone with the big bucks wants to fund the fight.  I don't like helmet laws either but can't do a darn thing about it.  They infringe on my freedom more often than the new laws here do.

Ask yourself whether you would ever not provide necessities such as food, feminine items, underwear or whatever.  This could be an exageration on her part and could be a flat out lie but we don't know.   If it is true it is not right and she does deserve sympathy and support.

The suggestions given for her seem to benefit both the husband and wife in this situation.  For her it would help her out of an abusive situation if she is in one.  For him it expedites his removal from the situation without going through the social services heavy handed tactics that she can invoke at any time regardless of the facts.  She could call a womens shelter at any time, they would do it all from there. 

If I get fooled by a GCG some time... too bad for me.  I don't need vengence.  I would even help make sure she got her citizenship, help her get a job flipping burgers at mcdonalds and help arrange a cozy apartment in the crappiest part of town.  A man cleans up his own messes and moves on to learn from his mistakes. 

[Rando]

I know you are writing to Da knack but....

All along we have said we dont know much here....not enough certainly....

But I still dont see abuse....she has to do dishes???????? He wont buy her underwear??? The underwear part makes him a jerk....but an abuser???? Really you guys want to label him an abuser becasue of that......?

Have you ever been around any RW? Have you heard how much and what they complain about? He wont buy her a car???Can she drive....has she been here more than a month????

I wash my own dishes, sweep, mop the floor, and work a full time job to pay for it all....this woman is crying about doing the dishes part....

Lets welcome her to America....shes just what we need....you guys MAKE these type of women by accepting and defending the lazy no good whiners....no RM would put up with it....but the namby pamby Americans will.

Maybe if she would pitch in and help things might go better for her....that ever dawn on any of you ladies???  :-)

Hows that for politically correct....:-)

[Daknack]

"If I get fooled by a GCG some time... too bad for me.  I don't need vengence.  I would even help make sure she got her citizenship, help her get a job flipping burgers at mcdonalds and help arrange a cozy apartment in the crappiest part of town.  A man cleans up his own messes and moves on to learn from his mistakes."


Hey if a woman gets beaten by her man too bad for her right?  She doesnt need vengence.  In fact the woman should get a job and support him beating her and be grateful perhaps even helping select a new wife.  A woman accepts her mistakes and lives with them, along with the Epsom Salts and Ace Bandages.

You Sir are a dumbass, and like dumbass #1 are part of the problem.