Possible Abusive Situation

[mischief]

  The ultimate "crazy" is when people do the same thing again and again and again, and each time expect a different outcome. 

Lol jb, you hit on my favorite line by Albert Einstein: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."

 

 

[ccdr14]

Good Afternoon. I want to tell you what took place in the Courtroom this morning between my wife and me. There were cross protective orders so the Judge heard them both at one time. She did have an Attorney with her while I did not. When asked I said no thanks since the truth does not to be told through an Attorney.

SO the hearing laster about 2 hours and I could tell the Judge was getting a little disgruntled with her Attorney, who was from Baltimore and not a local one. When it was all said and done, She was not given a Protective Order against me and neither was I. At first I was a little dissapointed but then after thinking about it, she is the one who lost. Since there is no order against me, she will be hard pressed to get any type of aid or further support out of me. Plus there is always the Immigration withdrawl of her I-130. Her Attorney knows about that since it came up in Court and he was fuming!!! TOUGH,

So as it stands, she agrees to stay away from me and I, her. It's what I wanted all along. The Judge made a comment that since I a U.S. Citizen and she's only been here 5 months that there is no need to worry about my house or belongings. That is she wants to go her merry way then so be it.

[Son of Clyde]

Personally, I don't think either of you won.

She is here, totally on her own and you are starting from square one.

We will never know her side of the story because she doesn't post here.

This is very sad and I could have been in the same situation as you but we worked things out together.

 

[drmbear]

I'm somewhat involved in this.  I am the one that made the initial post.  My feelings on this issue have not changed. 

First I will say that neither me or my wife provided any "advice" about this decision, about employment or anything else.  From when we first met them, our attitude has been that they needed to work whatever they were going to do between themselves.  My wife's intention was to help them communicate, that's all.

In the time since she has been here, the husband has done nothing to get the papers filed.  I know that employment authorization and SSN paperwork is easy and will take a two-week turnaround at most.  I know, because I did it.  He didn't prepare that paperwork.  The wife found(not my wife) a person that would help her get the paperwork filed that she needed in order to work.  There was nothing illegal about it, other than the fact it would have been much easier if the husband would have done it himself.

They lived in a neighborhood that anyone from the FSU would call the country or village or even forrest, even with thousands of houses around.  There is no access to even a convenience store within miles.  It is not a neighborhood that it is even reasonable to walk in and out of without great difficulty because of the narrow streets and too fast cars.  In order to have reasonable mobility around here, you need to be able to drive.  In the five months since she has been here, he has done nothing to see that she had the information she would need to start the process of learning to drive and get a license.  He never put any effort into explaining or even sitting her behind the wheel so she can get familiar with a car.  Essentially nothing.  In this area, that alone is imprisonment and inexcusable for an FSU woman that is used to being able to interact with society and friends just by walking out the door.

Just because, she went with us to our church last week, and she said it was the first time since she has been here that she was able to see and interact with just normal people in this country.  She had decided to move out because she felt threatened.  His New Years "gift" to her was a note that said after they were married for a year, he would buy a ticket for her to go back to Ukraine, and he would arrange the divorce.  When she made the decision, she asked my wife for help.  That is the only way we are involved.

Seems kinda funny to me that a guy that says he loved her so much, immediately after she moved out would file a protective order not for concern about his property, but because he felt himself in danger because she was hitting him, beating on him, and he felt his daughter was also in danger for harm, saying essentially that she was harmful to him and his daughter all along. 

In no way would I want to get involved in any kind of underhanded attempt by anyone - you hear stories about false DV charges, someone only wanting a green card, or anything else that could be construed as illegal.  There is none of that in this case.  If you want to know anything else, just get in touch with me.

[mischief]

Drmbear.... You sound like a sensible man… and I don't believe that any sensible person would go through all the troubles to help another person if there are no serious reasons for that.

 

The guy (ccdr14) is not even consistent with whatever he writes... first he got Protective Order, now he didn't … "no thanks since the truth does not to be told through an Attorney" - just say that you're too cheap to get one!  Just remember: What goes around comes around! Have a nice life!

 

 

[Daknack]

Mischief your sex and origin it not important to your bias and hate.  You have already admitted it.  As for the rest of your illogical rantings, you have stated that everyone gets what they deserve.  Apparently that applies to everyone except RW.  You are a dumbass, and will remain a dumbass.  Your handle pretty much sums you up.  Congratulations.

To Ken:  I dont think anyone here accused you of being the couple that caused problems, and I thought it was clear from your original post that it was cross threaded from somewhere else.  If its caused you or your wife any trouble thats unfortunate as it is misplaced.  Especailly in the arena of your wife who (unless I dont know the name) does not post and is not involved in any of this and thus is unwarrented.  I still do think you took an immediate side for the woman in this case, although perhaps it was tempered when the husband posts to a more moderate stand.

To: Drmbear:  If what you say is true about the New Years "gift" is true, I hope it was kept as evidence.  That above anything else should speak volumes.  I also think that much of ccdr14's story is possibly true.  Hell, maybe both are true.

To: ccdr14:  If indeed this note is true, I think you have alot of explaining to do about not seeing things coming.  It seems you have told only half of a story if that is true.

To those counting who won or lost:  Dont be a dumbass.   No one ever "wins" a divorce other then the scum sucking lawyers.  Its never fun, its never happy.  The best you can hope for is to achieve your goal in a divorce.  He wanted to protect his home and property, She wanted to stay.  Both got what they wanted.  Sounds to me like empty and hollow victories.

[mischief]

Mischief your sex and origin it not important to your bias and hate.  You have already admitted it.  As for the rest of your illogical rantings, you have stated that everyone gets what they deserve.  Apparently that applies to everyone except RW.  You are a dumbass, and will remain a dumbass.  Your handle pretty much sums you up.  Congratulations.

Well, I'm glad that calling me names makes you feel better… hey, whatever works for you!  With regards to bias, who doesn't have it?  About the hate, I'm not sure I'm the one who is suffering from it here…

 

[catzenmouse]

Daknack,

 When SoC wrote to me that you were really a decent guy I took him  at his word as I like him and know that he has been through a lot and  come a great distance in many ways. But now all I can say is don't  bother trying to get a job as a pompous know-it-all blowhard because  you won't get it. You are WAAAAYYY too overqualified.

[BC]

Daknack,

..yeah all us married folk are dumbasses who haven't got a clue.

You obviously have had past experiences resulting in massive resentment problems.  Get over yourself.

[Daknack]

I dont think I ever claimed not it be a pain in the a$$ or know-it-all ish because I am.  At the same to BC, I dont think I said all married people here are dumbasses.  I just think some of the attitudes of people qualify them as such.

Ken, I am a decent guy, maybe you just have to get to know me.   Tend to get overly passionate about things.  As I said in a previous post, I deal with little children every day (and as yet havent abused any;)), so I can't be all Mr. Meanguy.  As for SoC I agree with you on all fronts and hes a good friend of mine.  We dont always see eye to eye about things but we focus more on what we have in common.  Which is not always easy to do in this setting as it tends to be more polarized and impersonal.

[Elen]

I think any woman in right mind does understand that there could not be any gaurantee with any marriage ( especially with marriage to foreigner) So she just could not have no  ideas about what she would be supposed to do in a bad case. For me it seems that this woman had only one plan - to find a job for to be independent Well better she would make plans how to return back home and make such plans before she moved anywhere.( pre-nup would be fine for such case)  
( And bwt less than 1 year in alient country is not a reasone to tell that she lost all in her former country and can't return home.)

[Rando]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

Rando I feel sorry for you to stoop to posting your little semi-insults to people who may not agree with your opinions. You attacked three people (if only slightly) who contribute more on this and that other board than you could ever hope to contribute. Your low blow at me does not hurt me in the least. It is called adjustment. My wife is making the adjustment, my stepson is making the adjustment and I am making the adjustment. I don't have the experience of the guys on this board who were in 20+ year marriages and it has been trial and error. I will agree that some of the errors were mine. I never paid much attention to your posts before today. Deal with those who may not agree with you in a rational way. Yes, I have lost my temper on the board but not in the open as much as with pm's. I have matured and do not send pm's lately unless they are friendly ones. 

 

Clyde,

You have no idea what or for how long I have contributed to this RW endevor

I dont post anywhere much anymore because it is pointless pretty much...but as you can see I remembered your situation and actually all the other situations as well....

Dont admonish me for returning caustic remarks. Everyone had a jab first and so why do you complain when someone jabs back? Why do you cry foul whan all are guilty? You wanna throw darts? Fine...be prepared to catch a few then.

Im glad we hear a little of this guys story....not enough really...

Someone said that one of them is lying.....I agree. And I have a guess who is lying based on the culture they came from where it is accepted to lie, bribe and do whatever to accomplish the objecticve...

Any questions?

A judge saw what you all refuse to look at! This woman is clearly working a scam no matter what the informant here who only is advising this girl and whos wife is best friends with this girl....says.

She is simply a GCG and the more that comes out here proves that.

No matter really....becasue as Leslie stated way back in the begining ...she is here to stay! The fact that there is no PFA order  is really meaningless... she can still petition based on abuse...there is no requirement for such an order! All she has to do is go to INS web site and they have it all spelled out and the form is there to print out....she fills it out ...mails it in ....and bang....end of story....the guy never gets to tell his story because that the way it is set up....they will never contact him....they will simply issue her work papers, SS# , parole to travel....whatever she needs....it is the biggest immigration scam going today and every RW knows it or know someone who knows it....only the sappy mules...(ahem) dont know ....they all learn the hard way...

Discuss and argue merit and blame all you want...shes staying and Ill say it again....she SHOULD go home...becasue we dont need another cheating lying woman in this country....we have plenty already...

So there you go Clyde....if she didnt already know (but she did) I just helped this poor dear girl get everything she desired or needed to get every paper and document she needs to stay here and guess what .....soon she will be able to sponsor her relatives to come here as well....;-) Maybe even her real BF or husband ...and she can do all this w/o a lawyer ....it truely is that simple....:-)

How sorry do you feel for her now?

 

 

[tim 360]

Alotta bad wind on this long thread.  Not being privy to the real true details all of us know very little.  But opinions are formed based on our bias. If drmbear's post is accurate the husband definitely kept this woman almost a prisioner.  Gggeeez!  Even my dog gets to take a walk and a ride in the car. This is no way to treat a woman.

Daknack your insults to others are unnecessary and only makes your posts and you NOT credible.  You may bray as loud as you wish but you sway few to your nasty and narrow thoughts.  Maybe you could think before you speak (type).

[Daknack]

In case you didnt notice, Im equally critical of myself and am capable of honest self analysis as Ive agreed that I am both a know-it-all and pain in the a$$.  I recognize my faults (though I tend to not seek self improvement of them).  When someones a dumbass I am doing them a favor, maybe they can self evaluate too.

[catzenmouse]

I  dont think I ever claimed not it be a pain in the a$$ or know-it-all  ish because I am.  At the same to BC, I dont think I said all  married people here are dumbasses.  I just think some of the  attitudes of people qualify them as such.

Ken, I am a decent guy, maybe you just have to get to know  me.   Tend to get overly passionate about things.  As I  said in a previous post, I deal with little children every day (and as  yet havent abused any;)),  so I can't be all Mr. Meanguy.  As for SoC I agree with you on all  fronts and hes a good friend of mine.  We dont always see eye to  eye about things but we focus more on what we have in common.   Which is not always easy to do in this setting as it tends to be more  polarized and impersonal.

Daknack,

 If I ever get up Baltimore way or you get down this way I would  be more than happy to sit down and have a beer with you. I just find  your "I can yell the loudest so I win" type of arguments do not add to  the topic and insulting people and calling them names (when many of  them are in this a lot longer than you have been) to be rude and  childish.

 Anyway, the offer is open for the beer. SoC has my contact info.

Ken

[Daknack]

Sure anytime.  As I said maybe its a bit more passion about the subject in the thread concerning false accuasations of abuse.  First rounds on me

[jb]

I still think this marriage is beyond help, the two people involved have burned too many bridges and there's no going back now.  That's assuming there was ever a bridge in the first place, which I doubt.

If anything is to be learned, then you'd have to really dig into the where's and what's and how's of its beginnings and I don't think the principals would really like to divulge too much of the private stuff.  And that's fair, I think. 

The only thing I can relate to is how frustrated a new immigrant woman must feel during those first few months, not speaking the language, no friends, no common footing with her husband.  Being discribed as a fish out of water seems right.  Anger seems like a natural response to me.

I still have trouble understanding how a man can subject these rigors on another human being, how big are the selfish motives that allows a man to bring a woman he supposedly loves into this kind of torture chamber?  Of course, the shoe on the other foot is;  how desperate can a woman be to allow herself to be talked into such a move to a mysterious and alien world where she doesn't even know how to count the money, can't get around, and can't even talk to the next door neighbor?   Now, that's cruel.   If anyone needs a primer course on this you need to read Photoguy's thread describing the problems his g/f is having after being here a month.  She's really a fish out of the water, and he's the bumbling facilator.

It's very easy for me to see how the horror stories happen, as Splendid is fond of saying, "A train wreck looking for a place to happen".

[Bruno]

If anyone needs a primer course on this you need to read Photoguy's thread describing the problems his g/f is having after being here a month.  She's really a fish out of the water, and he's the bumbling facilator.

Welcome back JB...

I think that you have a major difference between the actual story and these of Photoguy's... yes, you can find the same basic problem... specially the language problem...

But in the last case, Doug make all he can for help her... friend contact, language school,... and he take care of the paperwork... not yet sure that they will marry in the delay of 90 days but Doug make his task like fiance...

Having a RW is not only enjoy a sexy body and have a free housekeeper... you have a lot more duty and responsability that with a local woman...

[Elen]

Would not someone mind to explain me in what way such women desperate ( and particular THIS woman) ?

[Bruno]

Someone said that one of them is lying.....I agree. And I have a guess who is lying based on the culture they came from where it is accepted to lie, bribe and do whatever to accomplish the objecticve...

 ...

becasue we dont need another cheating lying woman in this country....we have plenty already...
 

In the begin of your post, you seem to think that the russian women is these who lie due to Russian culture... but later, you say that US have a lot of lying women... seem that you contredict yourself...

About Russian culture, they find Western people to be hypocrit... a simple example is the "smile"... Russian smile when they are really happy... Western people smile without reason, same when theyy are in bad mood... where side lie the more...

Yes, Russian use all is needed to reach objective, they bride.... but they don't hide it, they are honest and say what happen... in Western culture, we hide everything, give the impression that all is right... a russian ganster attack you in front and not in your back... they know what honor mean...

In your post, you seem say that you have a big experience... but what experience... only forum or real contact with russian people... it seem that you know nothing about the "russian spirit"...

On both side, you have people who lie... but here, in Western country, they are more difficult to detect, more hypocrit, more hidden lie... we have not fewer liar here, they hide better, they are more professional...

I decided to check in here while on vacation as I was curious about this unfolding situation.

Who's right or wrong and to what degree has been discussed. No need going over that again. I figure I will give my advice to both parties. Rather novel idea huh? First about myself to ccdr14 and possible his wife if she gets this information.

About me:

I started studying this situation that I was involved in before it actually happen. That is I was married to a RW and I could see that false DV charges from her to secure her immigration status was going to happen when I ended the marriage (the marriage was only 4 months in length in America). So I went to an immigration attorney (5 weeks after she arrived) and shortly later to a divorce attorney that my immigration attorney recomended. This attorney had allot of experience in representing immigrant women in divorce cases so he knew all the angles and could give me good advice on how to soft land (divorce) my marriage by avoiding the really ugly situation. An ugly situation is time spent in jail, criminal charges and a criminal record. Thanks to his advice I avoided all that. However did not come out unscathed. I did get a civil (as opposed to criminal) charge for a protective order against me for the mildest of DV charges, "pushing and shoving resulting in fear of the petitioner". This was based on a 'He said - She said' "evidence". In other words her word against mine.  From this "official evidence" she was able to self petition herself. From what I understand she got her Green Card on March 26th, 2004. It's my guess (I am not allowed to find out) that I am labled an "Abuser" in INS files and perhaps in the INS computer data base. Frankly that really irritates me.

Anyway I posted my story and became somewhat known as the poster boy for a guys married to a GCGs. I was/am contacted by lots of guys either in this situation or worried that it was about to happen to them. BTW by at least 2 guys on this thread alone have contacted me on this so you can get an idea how common this is.

Also I have spent allot of time spent talking to divorce and immigration attorneys (I am not afraid to spend some money) and conversations/e-mail with the INS (USCIS) adjudicators, a retired Director (top guy) of the INS of 3 States, and I.C.E. investigator, other RW who have had direct contact with RW in these types of situations and one RW, Elena Garrett of www.Russian_Detective.com who has investigated this from the Russian side in Russia. I have studied this dark subject for the past 3 years.

A month ago I got a phone call from my immigration attorney. After an hour of conversation he recomended that I start a website on this issue. It was his idea with out any prompting from me. So he must figure I have a pretty good feel for these situations.

 

Rando wrote:

No matter really....becasue as Leslie stated way back in the begining ...she is here to stay! The fact that there is no PFA order  is really meaningless... she can still petition based on abuse...there is no requirement for such an order! All she has to do is go to INS web site and they have it all spelled out and the form is there to print out....she fills it out ...mails it in ....and bang....end of story....the guy never gets to tell his story because that the way it is set up....they will never contact him....they will simply issue her work papers, SS# , parole to travel....whatever she needs....it is the biggest immigration scam going today and every RW knows it or know someone who knows it....only the sappy mules...(ahem) dont know ....they all learn the hard way...

Discuss and argue merit and blame all you want...shes staying and Ill say it again....she SHOULD go home...becasue we dont need another cheating lying woman in this country....we have plenty already...

So there you go Clyde....if she didnt already know (but she did) I just helped this poor dear girl get everything she desired or needed to get every paper and document she needs to stay here and guess what .....soon she will be able to sponsor her relatives to come here as well....;-) Maybe even her real BF or husband ...and she can do all this w/o a lawyer ....it truely is that simple....:-)

The highlighted in bold I can stand behind 100%. The underlined is the motive for what is likely to happen. The rest is I have no desire to tweek anyone or take sides.


[line]


Let's face it from what we see it's unlikely she going to go back and please see Rando's underlined text above. Let that sink in. So since it is very likely to happen anyway I would advise her is to go as soft as possible with her complaints and charges. Why?

First, she does not need to prove hardcore abuse to self petition herself with a I-360 spousal abuse petition. The mildest of charges or accusations is enough. There is some confusion on this issue (especially with RW who read the USCIS (INS) website). You see the website says that "evidence is needed to show significant abuse" (words to that effect) Yet the INS does not define exactly what is "significant abuse". So what happens next? The RW or other immigrant women then throw every wild charge they can think of at their husbands to qualify for "significant abuse". All this is so unnecessary. In fact it's rather a stupid thing to do IMO.

1) If a RW etc. makes up some really wild charges that seem unbelievable it casts doubt on the rest of her more believable charges. Some courts and INS officials/judges do not like being lied to...  There can be consequences. 

2) Hurting another person with a falsehood or scam hurts both parties. "Bad Karma" or just conditioning one's self to hurting others darkens and hardens one's soul (personality). If they don't care about the other person they should at least care about themselves.

I would recommend to her to get to an immigration attorney who knows the least that is needed to self petition. Other RW are not good sources of information on this. They are too close to the situation to be objective. Women's shelters or anyone in the "abuse industry" usually take over and the RW would be given little choice on how she wants the situation to be handled (gentle or hard). An attorney on the other hand works for the client practicing attorney-client confidentuality. He/she will not go ahead with anything until he was the RWs OK.

Attorneys are hated or not thought well of by allot of people. They are however a person's best line of defence or advice in these situations. It's not going "nuclear" to go and talk with one. They don't control you. I would recomend very strongly to run all ideas and suggestions including my own past a good attorney (See in my above story the way to find a good attorney) and get his thoughts about actions, preventions, timelines and what to likely expect in the future.

My suggestion to ccdr14 be that it would be best that he give her a wide berth. That is no contact in any way. Not with any of her friends or aquantances either. It would be best that she does not know even where he is at or with whom. Why? Well at these times some RW get very creative with their accusations. But she is less likely to say that he did something to her if she is not certain where he is at (maybe at Bible camp?) or if he has a alibi (a Female relative is best) with him. Yes, it can get really crazy at these times especially if she listens to other RW's advice (my ex maybe living in his area!!). Even things like an innocent phone call can be turned into "terroristic threats" and so on and this time she might get her Order for Protection. So over the next few or several months he needs to be careful.  

In regard to the INS. He can give his side of the argument and have it put in her perminent file held at the local service center. He will have to contact them probably with the help of an immigration attorney. However if she files a I-360 that perminent file will be scooped up and sent to the Vermont Service Center and then he won't have his opportunity to present his side of the story. See Rando's in red statement about it being a fixed situation from the start. So I would advise him not to expect any justice, fairness or any kind of balance in any of  this with the INS about what winds up in their data base about him. In other words don't knock himself out like I did.

Divorce? Short term marriages usually get little or no spousal support. Don't spend allot of legal fees fighting over some possessions accumulating during this short term marriage. Soon she will disappear to someplace in America and on to her new life. It should not be his concern.

"The Affidavit of Support is not enforced, ever" were the words my INS advisor the retired INS Director told me. I have yet to see one case in the last 3 years where he was wrong in this. It is IMO a "non factor" and nothing to worry about.  

Sorry folks for being so pragmatic about this situation. I just know by now that shouting about what is right and principaled is just so much cyber hot air. The INS is NOT listening...

Maxx

[Son of Clyde]

Maxx,

In the scenerio that Rando described this is pre divorce? The guy still ends up ultimately paying $$$$'s to get out of this mess?

This is a very sad story but they will probably both end up free from each other.

The guy has to go through this K1 process all over again with another woman if he is wants to take the risk again.

Is a divorce lawyer and immigration lawyer both needed? The legal fees alone are going to rack up a lot of money for the husband, the wife maybe has a loophole and can use court ordered attorneys.

[Rvrwind]

Attorneys are hated or not thought well of by allot of people. They are however a person's best line of defence or advice in these situations.

[/size]Not so Maxx!;) My best line of defence is a 44 Magnum!!!:D

RVR

[catzenmouse]

[size="4"]Attorneys  are hated or not thought well of by allot of people. They are  however a person's best line of defence or advice in these situations.[/size]

[/size][size="2"]Not so Maxx!;) My best line of defence is a 44 Magnum!!!:D[/size]

[size="2"]RVR[/size]
[/quote]

An American handgun! Rvr, You are begging for that trip to the gulag aren't you...

[mischief]

When someones a dumbass I am doing them a favor, maybe they can self evaluate too.

LOL  Do yourself a favor - let it go….  And take an Anger Management class to discuss your issues…