scammed by yeva4u

[Faux Pas]

PF,
Agree with you.  Saying any more about Mila and her business practices, or attacking Bruttus for his participation is not going to add anyting to the argument.

We can either accept the summaries of Mies, or FP.  It's not really that important to most of us.

The only remaining question/curiousity I have is knowing who has the bracelet and whether it is going to be returned to Bruttus.

If you were Mila, would you return the bracelet to a person trying unjustly to smear your name and business? I wouldn't.

[CDW]

FP 

You don't care if Bruttus was telling the truth about the girl being in a relationship since February 2012,  you only want to win the battle.    Go and defend murderers, rapists because you love to win!

[Faux Pas]

FP 

You don't care if Bruttus was telling the truth about the girl being in a relationship since February 2012,  you only want to win the battle.    Go and defend murderers, rapists because you love to win!

CDW you are wearing me down just a bit. I tire of your ankle biting snippets and ignoring them. I won't ignore them going forward

[mies]

No,it isn't a crime in Chelseaboy world.
 
However,Mies has confirmed that the girl states on her FB page that her and the Mexican HAD been in a relationship since February 2012,which is when bruttus claims they met.
Now that's not bruttus saying that,it's not me saying that,it's the girl herself confirming that.
I would assume the girl would know better than you if she was already in a relationship or not ?
 
Which,once again brings us back to business ethics and why wasn't bruttus informed of this before he met the girl ?
This is the whole crux of the matter,and nothing has changed.

History is often rewritten. I confirmed that the girl says in her profile now that she is in the relationship with the Mexican guy since February. It doesn't mean she thought the same back in February, or in June, or in July. I think she first communicated with the Mexican guy back in February, and they had correspondence since (maybe even on-and-off). Now she is in love so she says she is in relationship with him since the first date. It's better not to make rush conclusions in the private matters of other people. I have a female friend who says "we dated with my boyfriend for 10 years." While in reality, during these 10 years they broke up 3 times, each time have been separated for 1-2-3 years and meanwhile dated different people. So technically - the phrase "in relationship since XX/XX/XX" only means that the two people knew each other at least as early as that day.
I do not think the girl was scamming Bruttus. I think she was interested in meeting him. Had she fell in love with him - she'd stop corresponding with the Mexican guy.

[Chelseaboy]

Fair comment Mies,although you can of course only speculate.
 
That doesn't mean your speculation isn't correct though

[mies]

Please explain chelseaboy, how that is bad business practice?

bruttus has got some issues far worse than his inability to woo women.

Bruttus is an idealist. He truly believes in ideals. He isn't lying, but he does have very high standards for Ms. Right, for her moral qualities.  He has same high standards for his friends and partners. I'm sure he applies the same high standards for himself. I suppose he feels cheated because he had high expectations for the level of honesty (in addition to regular services) he would get from Mila. I don't know whether she provided this level of honesty. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't. Bruttus thinks/says she didn't. None of us know that.
When I am in business relationship, and my partner "forgets" to tell me information that he knows is critical for me, I wouldn't be too happy about it. Especially if later during discussion the partner tells me "why was I supposed to tell you this? How could you not know it?" I am not saying that the Mila indeed "forgot" to tell Bruttus about the Mexican guy, but if she completely omitted this topic in her talks with Bruttus, then I think it is a poor business practice. She was protecting "girl's" interests, while the girl isn't her client because the girl doesn't pay her. Bruttus was her client, and she should have ekpt his interests before the interests of the girl. If she did tell Bruttus - then Bruttus is lying now. If she didn't tell Bruttus - then Bruttus is righteously upset. But then again, maybe Mila didn't know that the girl staid in touch with the Mexican guy. Maybe the girl at that time was not talking to the Mexican. Maybe he stopped writing her, and she started actively seeking others, and met Bruttus. Not that impossible either. Then no one is at fault in the situation. The girl was truly not dating anyone, Mila knew that the girl used to date the Mexican but to the best of her knowledge the girl wasn't dating him anymore. Then, Mila didn't even have to tell anything to Bruttus, because it was "water under the bridge" story.

I personally (Bruttus, no offense) would not risk dating Bruttus or anybody like him (not that anybody like Bruttus can be interested in ever dating me) because I am far from ideal, and I can't promise many things to people who are close to me, just because I know I'd never be able to deliver upon such promises. While for anyone in relationship (personal or otherwise) with Bruttus it is implied that these people should promise to be as honest and otherwise perfect as Bruttus is. He offers people his trust, and then genuinely feel cheated when people misuse this trust. He will be a great and true partner for the right woman (with same idealistic views as his).

[Shadow]

If you pay taxes, does that make you king to decide what they do with your money ?
Similar, a man who pays for a service should not think he is entitled to more (or less) rights than the women who is equally a client even if she does not pay.
Bruttus has unrealistic expectations if he feels that a woman that he mails with or dates should be exclusive to him unless by mutual agreement.
It is not a high standard, it is an unrealistic expectation. After all he goes to Ukraine to meet more than one woman, however he requires the women not to have any contacts except him. To add to that, he is unable to handle rejection without becoming vindictive.
On the bright side, he seems very generous and naieve. Perhaps with experience he will be able to overcome his negatives and find happiness, which will hopefully allow him to put his current troubles behind him.

[bruttus]

I'm not offended Mies

maybe the unrealistic expectations has something to do with that i was scammed by those girls from Yeva4u, but i have asked to Mila, that the lady's has to be honest
Maybe Faux Pas has right, and the girl told me get a hick, when i was there, who knows, i don't speak the Ukrainian language, thats why i had a interpreter like Mila with me, then she lied about the true intentions about the gal

but i have then some questions to be answerd

- IF i didn't discoverd it that this lady went to Mexico and saw those photo's from them both, when should Mila has told me, and how long should i have payed for English lessons for that lady. from the reaction that i received from Mila, i don't think she would have told me that
-for a girl who didn't spoke any English, she could travel to a foreing country alone, that is something you have to explain
I'm not angry at the girl, but angry at Mila"

[mies]

Bruttus has unrealistic expectations if he feels that a woman that he mails with or dates should be exclusive to him unless by mutual agreement.
It is not a high standard, it is an unrealistic expectation. After all he goes to Ukraine to meet more than one woman, however he requires the women not to have any contacts except him.

I agree with your words about handling the rejection.
However, the main point Bruttus is trying to make is that he learned about girl's trip to Mexico from the FB, not from Mila, not from girl.
And while the girl was on a trip, he was about to send money for her English classes and was having communication with Mila about the payment for English classes (otherwise, how would he know how much money to send to Mila for the classes? but I may be wrong in my assumptions). He wonders how could Mila not know that the girl was visiting another guy, and if Mila did know - why didn't she tell this to Bruttus?
And after this happened, he reevaluated in retrospective all story again, and decided that Mila wasn't honest with him from the very beginning.

This is the way I understood Bruttus's side of the story.

He isn't complaining about girl's choice, he is asking could Mila not know it? And if she knew, why didn't she tell him about girl's trip to Mexico. Second point for doubt was girl's knowledge of English.

Mila, on the other hand, says that the girl broke up with Bruttus in July, and there were no discussions about English classes/Bruttus wasn't going to pay for any English classes. In this case, technically why should she tell anything to Bruttus if she wasn't receiving any money from him/he wasn't her client anymore, and the girl already broke up with him?


If Bruttus did discuss English classes with Mila in August, and was arranging to send money to Mila, then his requests are understandable.

If Bruttus was planning to send money for English classes (as a way to make up to a girl and reconnect with her again?) but never discussed it with Mila, then he cannot complain, because Mila couldn't know about his intentions. And even though he was planning to send money doesn't mean she would agree to take them.

[Shadow]

Honest as in honestly searching for someone ? As she had a relationship with the Mexican guy, she was so nothing to be mad about there.

- IF i didn't discoverd it that this lady went to Mexico and saw those photo's from them both, when should Mila has told me, and how long should i have payed for English lessons for that lady. from the reaction that i received from Mila, i don't think she would have told me that

Do you wish to state that Mila never told you she thought the woman was not interested in you ?

-for a girl who didn't spoke any English, she could travel to a foreing country alone, that is something you have to explain
I'm not angry at the girl, but angry at Mila"

Speaking English is not something that is universal. From your writing I believe that your spoken English might not be very easy to understand for someone with limited knowledge, and the Mexican might have spoken a more easily understandable version.
From my own experience I know that MrsShadow understood me very easily, however she still has trouble understanding other people speaking English at times, simply due to their accent and wording.

[Faux Pas]

but i have then some questions to be answerd

- IF i didn't discoverd it that this lady went to Mexico and saw those photo's from them both, when should Mila has told me, and how long should i have payed for English lessons for that lady. from the reaction that i received from Mila, i don't think she would have told me that

You were not in a relationship with this girl, at anytime. Stop lying bruttus, there were no English lesson and you know it. there were never English lessons  and the 2 Skype calls did not equal one hour total. Those calls were ordered by you to beg and plead with this girl because she would not answer you any longer on facebook

-for a girl who didn't spoke any English, she could travel to a foreing country alone, that is something you have to explain
I'm not angry at the girl, but angry at Mila"

The girl is free to travel where ever she wishes without your or Mila's permission.


give it up bruttus. You have been lying your ass off and you have been caught

[Shadow]

I agree with your words about handling the rejection.
However, the main point Bruttus is trying to make is that he learned about girl's trip to Mexico from the FB, not from Mila, not from girl.
And while the girl was on a trip, he was about to send money for her English classes and was having communication with Mila about the payment for English classes. He wonders how could Mila not know that the girl was visiting another guy, and if Mila did know - why didn't she tell this to Bruttus, while discussing English classes with him?
And after this happened, he reevaluated in retrospective all story again, and decided that Mila wasn't honest with him from the very beginning.

This is the way I understood Bruttus's side of the story.

He isn't complaining about girl's choice, he is asking could Mila not know it? And if she knew, why didn't she tell him about girl's trip to Mexico. Second point for doubt was girl's knowledge of English.

Mila, on the other hand, says that the girl broke up with Bruttus in July, and there were no discussions about English classes/Bruttus wasn't going to pay for any English classes. In this case, technically why should she tell anything to Bruttus if she wasn't receiving any money from him/he wasn't her client anymore, and the girl already broke up with him?

I am sure you know that it is not polite to look in the bedroom of other people.
As I share a language with Bruttus, I am able to read his point pretty well.

The issue rests once again on communication. It seems that Mila does not translate the brisk and strong words, but instead chooses a more softer version. In some cases this can lead to misunderstandings as with Bruttus.

I agree that if anyone negotiates about fees for English lessons while knowing there is no interest in the person supposed to pay for them they are not doing an honest job. On the other hand, in a business it is hard to refuse money if someone is insisting on spending it.

[Mila]

 Bruttus,
For how long will you post this nonsense? All members got confused with your perfect English. It looks like you got confused yourself! Let's make a final decision and forget about that.
 
First of all, I introduced you to that girl only because she confirmed she wasn't committed to that Mexican guy. I asked her personally and she wanted to meet you, as she wasn't engaged or married. She saw that Mexican guy only several times, he made only one trip. Otherwise, if I know she is in love, or engaged or married or whatever, I would never do that. I never play with people's feelings.
 
She went to Mexico a month after she said no to you. Why do you interfere with that? She wasn't dating you at that time, she never promised you anything. By the way, I found out about her trip 2 or 3 weeks later she came back to Kharkov. And it is fine, why should she tell me about her every step? I am not her mother, to control her or tell her what to do and what not. I have no idea why do you mention her trip to him? It was after you and it has nothing to do with you.
 
One more thing, both I and members got confused with English lessons. You never paid for the lessons, why do you mention that? If you were going to, it doesn't mean I would agree to teach her. O'k? I wouldn't, as I knew I made a mistake when I started working with you. So, please, don't lie, as you didn't pay and I didn't get money from you!
 
To make a conclusion I would say one more thing, she didn't want to take your bracelet, remember? You insisted and so she did. But she doesn't need it and I don't need it. I keep it, you know that. You know that I tried to send you, but one can't send silver through the post, so I keep it. It is yours!
But, what you did to me, I will never forget.

[mies]

I am sure you know that it is not polite to look in the bedroom of other people.

 I thought that it's a perversion to look into other's people bedroom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyeurism),  but now it turns to be just impoliteness. oh well 
(just kidding).

[Stirlitz]

 

         I suggest you learn how to read.Maybe it's you that's Dyslexic ?
As for you,no you don't need to call bruttus a liar,you've already insulted him enough by calling him a sadist

Please quote my words where I called bruttus a sadist. So who is dyslexic?
If you don’t know, a dyslexic person cannot read. Someone must have told you that I called bruttus a sadist, but you could not have read it anywhere in my posts as I never wrote it. So it is you who is dyslexic obviously. As for calling me dyslexic... you seem to be in the sandbox age returning word for word, but grown-up people usually have better ways of discussion rather than simply repeating what the opponent said without thinking if it makes sense.
 

If you wasn't referring to bruttus as a sadist in direct response to the comments from Faux Pas,why did you bring the word up ? It was also the very first word you brought up.

This is your logic. Note the bold.

You'll stoop to any level to protect your friends business reputation

Mila is not my friend. She is just doing the same as I do, and as I have been in situations like this (fortunately, once or twice only), I know what it is like. I have met people like bruttus and know what they are like.
 
 

Show us the proof that the girls Facebook account is fake,before making unsubstantiated claims.

Burden of proof lies with prosecution. I don’t need to show any proofs, I am a bystander and have no axe to grind in this situation,  I do not claim that the account is fake; I simply point out that FB is not a solid evidence that nails it, and explain why. Nothing more than that.

[Vaughn]

-for a girl who didn't spoke any English, she could travel to a foreing country alone, that is something you have to explain

The above expectation reveals much to me about you, bruttus.
As for the relationship that didn't work out to your satisfaction, understand that Mila doesn't run a pet shop. Until you're able to take ownership of the blame - and move on constructively like a responsible adult, you're definitely in the wrong game.

[Chelseaboy]

Stirlitz
 
             You wrote the word Sadists in post 542,interjecting in response to Faux Pas making comments toward bruttus ,and it was your first word in your response to the comments Faux Pas made,so you did write it.
 
Or maybe,just as in those false Facebook accounts you mention,someone has accessed your password on here,and wrote that comment on your behalf ?
Now,unless you write words at random,with no meaning,like a child,then don't play juvenile games with me,and state why you used that word in that context,when Faux Pas was making comments toward bruttus .
 
Is that clear enough for you ?
 
 
 
 

[Stirlitz]

 

On the bright side, he seems very generous

Demanding a refund from Mila does not make him generous in my books, especially taking into account the circumstances.

You wrote the word Sadists in post 542,interjecting in response to Faux Pas making comments toward bruttus ,and it was your first word in your response to the comments Faux Pas made,so you did write it.

I am tired. OK, once again. Specially for the dyslexic (the one who cannot read)!

This is your logic. Note the bold.

PLEASE NOTE THE DAMNED BOLD! In case you do not realize it, in more words: my logic does not have to coincide with yours, bruttus’ or FP’s or someone else. Everyone has their logic but what I wrote is also my logic, so I view and mean it otherwise. You have to accept it. I mention a sadist; you would have meant that bruttus was a sadist if you had written that, but it is YOU. As the words are mine, I did not necessarily mean that, you just assume so and try to make it look like I did call him a sadist which is, again, your assumption, not the truth. You are lying about me. I said what I said. What you think I meant is what you think.
But I understand that you won’t let me off so easy. Do you want me to call bruttus a sadist? I can do it for you if you insist, it is not a problem for me. You could have politely asked me to do so instead of trying to prove that I did when I did not. You could have also as politely asked me to explain what I meant when I had mentioned a sadist had you been interested in it, instead of attacking me.

like a child,then don't play juvenile games with me,and state why you used that word in that context,when Faux Pas was making comments toward bruttus

It seems I am talking to Chelseaboy… Let’s  see.
Collins Cobuild:
boy
Frequency: The word is one of the 700 most common words in English.
1. A boy is a child who will grow up to be a man.
I understand. No more "juvenile games" with children. Time to add a record to my ignore list probably until   Chelseaboy grows up to be Chelseaman.
Good-bye.

[Ade]

To summarize; barely literate infatuated nutjob discovers unrequited love in the FSU and chooses to blame third party for his love life failure which turns out to have only really existed inside his own head anyway.

[CDW]

Time to move on
======  THE END ======

[ML]

Quote from: ML on March 23, 2013, 12:26:48 PM<blockquote>Most here are focusing on calling Bruttus stupid and a loser for going  on about a woman who chose someone else.  And if it were only about that, I would agree.

But scamming and fraud (while furthered by romance or hopes of such) are ultimately about money.

So, in my mind, that is the only thing that this discussion should be about.  And  I am not saying  there was any scamming or fraud.

But to ascertain scams or fraud in this case, Bruttus can start by clarifying some variables.

1. Did you pay for previous translation and English lessons for the gal, or did you arrange to pay for future translation and English lessons for the gal?

2. If yes to number 1, who was this money paid to or arranged to be paid to?

3. Who helped you find the person to pay the money to for past work and for future planned work?

4. Who helped you arrange the payment of the money?

5. As I understand from your previous posts, this money would have been paid from your paypal account had you not taken action to stop the payments when you learned, on your own,  that the gal had already  chosen another man.  Is this an accurate statement of the facts as you understand them?

6. You believe that persons, other than the gal in question, knew fully that the gal had chosen another man, and yet were going to keep this  info from you so that the payments would start or continue for translation work and English lessons.  Is this true?

7. What is the name of the other persons who knew these facts, yet did not tell you?

= = = = = = =

From Brutus:
</blockquote>1) i payd for the first time a talk tru skype with Mila and that girl about 50 USD for an hour,
2) Mila
3) if i understand the question correctly, Mila
4)Mila
5) second time, yes, it was ready to sent the money to Mila, if she notify when the girl was ready to talk, after i found out, i sended the money back to mine bankaccount
how much, 300 USD for here english lessons, 50 USD for talking with skype and 65 USd for here B-day gift, so more then enough
6) yes, i believe that, this person knew that this gal was dating with other guy, but didn't told that info, so i could make that decision
on the other hand, what i didn't inform to these members, because i tought that it was not importante info, is that the genuine girl here best friend, on the moment that i found out, already was in that guy's fb friendlist
so yes, from how i see it and how i was treatend by Mila when i asked any info about it, i strongly believe that all this info was kept so that this genuine girl with Mila, had some great time

= = = = = = = = = =

One more thing, both I and members got confused with English lessons. You never paid for the lessons, why do you mention that? If you were going to, it doesn't mean I would agree to teach her. O'k? I wouldn't, as I knew I made a mistake when I started working with you. So, please, don't lie, as you didn't pay and I didn't get money from you!
 
 . . . bracelet, . . . I keep it, you know that. You know that I tried to send you, but one can't send silver through the post, so I keep it. It is yours!

As usual, certain people try to give impression of answering questions, while  at the same time changing the wording just enough so they really are not answering the questions asked.

I asked Bruttus a series of questions  and he posted his replies.

The contention is that you and he arranged for FUTURE English lessons and translations regarding the gal in question.

The contention  is that you helped Bruttus set up  the means of payment for those lessons and translations.

Bruttus took action to stop payment after he discovered additional facts.

It does no good for you and any others to claim you never did anything wrong because you never actually received any of the money.

This is like bank robbers claiming they did nothing wrong because the guards stopped them as they were trying to exit the bank with the cash.


And, as for not being able to send silver via post  . . .  that would be a big hoot for the dozens of guys here who have actually done such.

Also, for upteenth time . . . for Bruttus and several others . . . .

IT IS NOT ABOUT FACT THE GAL CHOSE SOMEONE OTHER THAN BRUTTUS.  IT IS ABOUT THE LIES, MISINFORMING, MISLEADING, AND CONCEALMENTS.

[Faux Pas]

As usual, certain people try to give impression of answering questions, while  at the same time changing the wording just enough so they really are not answering the questions asked.

I asked Bruttus a series of questions  and he posted his replies.

The contention is that you and he arranged for FUTURE English lessons and translations regarding the gal in question.

The contention  is that you helped Bruttus set up  the means of payment for those lessons and translations.

Bruttus took action to stop payment after he discovered additional facts.

It does no good for you and any others to claim you never did anything wrong because you never actually received any of the money.

This is like bank robbers claiming they did nothing wrong because the guards stopped them as they were trying to exit the bank with the cash.


And, as for not being able to send silver via post  . . .  that would be a big hoot for the dozens of guys here who have actually done such.

ML, you are as dense as bruttus. I have an idea why he has lied but, what would be your motivation?

[LAman]

ML, you are as dense as bruttus. I have an idea why he has lied but, what would be your motivation?

Maybe ML is working 'pro bono' for bruttus??? 

[GQBlues]

...The contention is that you and he arranged for FUTURE English lessons and translations regarding the gal in question.

The contention  is that you helped Bruttus set up  the means of payment for those lessons and translations.

Bruttus took action to stop payment after he discovered additional facts.

It does no good for you and any others to claim you never did anything wrong because you never actually received any of the money.

This is like bank robbers claiming they did nothing wrong because the guards stopped them as they were trying to exit the bank with the cash.

Not exactly the same....one party  in your sampling never had the money while the other party actually did.
But anyway, I wish Bruttus the very best in his future. Although tapering off this silly international dating scene will likely do him wonders...

[ML]

Maybe ML is working 'pro bono' for bruttus??? 

And where is your pro bono comment for those of opposite persuasion?