Unrealistic Expectations - Women - Entitlement Mentality

[mies]

   If you do not already know why you sould ask someone if he has a fiance  before you accuse him of cheating on a fiance he may or may not have, I can not help you!

I did not see accusations in infidelity. I saw a valid question whether the OP still has a fiance at the moment of discussion with another woman.  and I am curious.

[GQBlues]

I did not see accusations in infidelity. I saw a valid question whether the OP still has a fiance at the moment of discussion with another woman.  and I am curious.  

Well, maybe the OP felt entitled to peek outside the window now and then...what's wrong with that? 

[Gylden]

Something else which strikes me a bit odd about this situation.
If we consider the title o (which I f this thread.
 
 "Unrealistic expectations"
Is it a realistic expectation to think that after electronic communication for about three weeks, one can be productive in conversations about marriage/disposition of kids, etc.?
 
From what I have read Doug is a reasonable and good man. Based on his own words, (which I feel I can believe) is also a good woman.
 
It could be that there was an element of entitlement, but I am not convinced. I think the real problem stems from two people not really knowing each other well enough and the topic for discussion much too premature to be really productive. Touching the nerves of both parties, before having an established/trusting relationship to base it on.
 
 
 
 

[happyandstable]

Well stated Gylden.

[Muzh]

Muzh, I don't see anyone splattering some woman's reputation but discussing a situation. Plus what woman you are talking about?     Some kind of a virtual woman?  The name of the board is "russian women discussion" if you go through topics there are group discussions about many women and men who can not respond and situations regarding them.

After I read what I wrote on my reply, I said to myself; What's the use? So I erased it.

As Rossana Danadana used to say: "Never Mind."

[ghost of moon goddess]

After I read what I wrote on my reply, I said to myself; What's the use? So I erased it.

As Rossana Danadana used to say: "Never Mind."

No lady is ever a gentleman. 

My    to Muzh!

[OlgaH]

After I read what I wrote on my reply, I said to myself; What's the use? So I erased it.

As Rossana Danadana used to say: "Never Mind."

That's right, Muzh, and never mind   

No lady is ever a gentleman. 

Lady is a lady, why she should not be 

My    to Muzh!

I join your applause.

[ML]

It could be that there was an element of entitlement, but I am not convinced. I think the real problem stems from two people not really knowing each other well enough and the topic for discussion much too premature to be really productive. Touching the nerves of both parties, before having an established/trusting relationship to base it on.

I think the  more important aspect of this thread is not whether the particular woman noted by the OP had the Entitlement Mentality;

But rather the general sense of Entitlement by the FSUW.

So no need to dig into the minute details about  what this woman did or did not do, or did or did not say.

Most important for all to realize the 'General' situation.

[ghost of moon goddess]

I think the  more important aspect of this thread is not whether the particular woman noted by the OP had the Entitlement Mentality;

But rather the general sense of Entitlement by the FSUW.

So no need to dig into the minute details about  what this woman did or did not do, or did or did not say.

Most important for all to realize the 'General' situation.

"To generalize on women is dangerous. To specialize on them is infinitely worse" 
 

[OlgaH]

 "Unrealistic expectations"
Is it a realistic expectation to think that after electronic communication for about three weeks, one can be productive in conversations about marriage/disposition of kids, etc.?
 

Gylden, when people are looking for a life partner they usually have a set of expectation regarding a partner and a married life in general. I think it is very benefiting and productive for both parties to talk about these expectations earlier, rather than later 

[OlgaH]

But rather the general sense of Entitlement by the FSUW.

ML, after reading pre-elections debates on some Russian forums, in general the "soviet mentality" still prevails among Russians,  probably that's why Putin became a president again. IMHO.

[OlgaH]

"To generalize on women is dangerous. To specialize on them is infinitely worse" 

and with these words the board should be shut down or at least change its name     

[ghost of moon goddess]

and with these words the board should be shut down or at least change its name 

While at some threads, I feel like I'm living in a climate of utter disgrace to RW and find myself subconsciously seeking  shield over missile threats.
Which makes me think that RWD  stands for Russian Women in Danger   

[OlgaH]

While at some threads, I feel like I'm living in a climate of utter disgrace to RW and find myself subconsciously seeking  shield over missile threats.
Which makes me think that RWD  stands for Russian Women in Danger   

Missile threats?  I guess I missed it     what Russian women in danger?

A little bit of humor 

Смола, как слеза, на поленьях,
Осенний безрадостен свет...
Есть женщины в русских селеньях,
А в прочих селеньях их нет.

Зайдите в селенья Таити,
В селенья ЮАР, Шри-Ланки,
В селенья Гренады зайдите -
Повсюду одни мужики!

Пылают пожары в Техасе,
Но некому с криком: "Ахти!
Там Вася, там пьяный мой Вася!" -
В горящую избу войти.

Заспался ямщик из Гаскони,
А кони возьми и "ку-ку".
Кто, кто остановит вас, кони,
В Гаскони на полном скаку?

Трясут катаклизмы планету
Под яростный вой воронья.
Нет женщин! Вы слышите - нету
В селеньях угрюмых ея.

А мы тут, такие-сякие,
Все ищем ответ на вопрос:
С чего, мол, на баб из России
Такой потрясающий спрос?

(Сергей Сатин)

[Gator]

While at some threads, I feel like I'm living in a climate of utter disgrace to RW and find myself subconsciously seeking  shield over missile threats.
Which makes me think that RWD  stands for Russian Women in Danger   

Have no fear Goddess.  There are all types of FSUW and all types of Western Men (WM).   You seem sufficiently sophisticated to recognize the type that is ideal for you as well as the type who would make you miserable.   
 
In this thread the OP and the correspondent quickly determined that they were not ideal for each other.   IMO, neither the OP or his correspondent is wrong, just different.   I do not understand why the OP believes this woman has unrealistic expectations.   I dated mostly older RW with teenage if not older children.  I never expected the women to abandon their children, nor did I expect them to find gainful employment.   
 
The only entitlement is that each of us is entitled to seek the type of man/woman we want.  Many never find their ideal person.  Why?   
 
 
 

[Daveman]

and with these words the board should be shut down or at least change its name 

ilookyoungformyage.com was already taken, theymaturefaster.net is still an option though.. 

[OlgaH]

ilookyoungformyage.com was already taken, theymaturefaster.net is still an option though.. 

Ah, two famous lines     may we should combine them together in one

[mendeleyev]

I am not a big fan of equal rights = equal responsibility in marriage.

I absolutely reject the idea of a 50-50 marriage, and I'm not talking only about money. Marriage is a partnership of 100-100 which often means that at certain times one of the parties may be called on to carry the 100. There are times when one spouse is sick, etc, and the other spouse cannot sit on his/her arse and only do 50%. When both are contributing 100-100 then love works, marriage works, kids grow up well adjusted and happy. And often 100-100 means that the man brings in all or a great majority of the income. If you can only define her share of a relationship as either bringing in income or in washing dishes & cooking, then we live in two different worlds and I like mine a lot better.

Gentlemen, the job market for most RW in the first few years is nil to minimum wage at best. In fact, the best investment you can make in the first few years is to provide English improvement classes and the chance to acclimate before she is thrown unprepared into the workplace.

A woman from your home country has advantages: She has some assets (even if just her personal clothing and "stuff"), she is fluent in the language and likely has a job history. A RW has none of this to speak of in your country.

If you can't afford to bring over a RW and provide 100% of the income, then you can't afford a RW. If you can't afford to bring over a RW and provide 100% of whatever those future needs are (college, dental, second family car, etc) then you can't afford to bring home that particular woman. Don't shop for what you can't afford.

There were years when I was the main provider. These days, there are some years when she makes more than I do and that is okay, it goes into one pot anyway (which she generally manages, and manages very well). She was paid on one project this January an amount that will take me to August or September to catch up. But there were years when she was paid little to nothing. If she stopped working on her art projects tomorrow, my mentality is to keep on doing what I was doing because that is what I do anyway, so we'll be fine.

The key word in that sentence is "we'll" be fine. I flat out reject any sense of mine versus hers. It is 100% ours or we have nothing. She is not expected to do "her share" because frankly gentlemen if we're honest when looking in the mirror, a woman usually brings more to the table in a relationship than most of men ever realize or could muster themselves. From loving us, loving our children, to improving the quality of our lives is something only a wife could manage and any attempt to define/reduce her "contribution" in financial terms is just plain silly.

Seeing everything that she brings to our family and to my life personally, I'm more concerned about keeping up with doing my share.

If you disagree, let me know when you've accomplished almost two eventful and joyful decades with a RW and then perhaps I'll listen. Until then, I'm...

Grateful that the still lovely and talented Mrs. M chose me and not some other bloke,
Mendeleyev

[OlgaH]

Gentlemen, the job market for most RW in the first few years is nil to minimum wage at best. In fact, the best investment you can make in the first few years is to provide English improvement classes and the chance to acclimate before she is thrown unprepared into the workplace.

A woman from your home country has advantages: She has some assets (even if just her personal clothing and "stuff"), she is fluent in the language and likely has a job history. A RW has none of this to speak of in your country.

I think it depends on a woman. There are hundreds women immigrants who have done it on their own. The most important if a woman has a desire to succeed in one or another area in her life.

If you can't afford to bring over a RW and provide 100% of the income, then you can't afford a RW. If you can't afford to bring over a RW and provide 100% of whatever those future needs are (college, dental, second family car, etc) then you can't afford to bring home that particular woman. Don't shop for what you can't afford.

That's right    don't shop, unless you are not looking for a partner! But if you shop be sure your have enough money.

There are different type of women all over the World including the FSU countries and every woman has her own goals, expectations, abilities and so on. You just have to find your lady with whom your share your goals and expectations 

[ML]

Mendy, what you say is all fine and good, and most men here probably agree with you completely . . . in the particular way you frame your words and lay out the scenarios.

However, nothing you wrote gets at the point of this thread concerning the entitlement attitude of many (perhaps most) of the FSUW.

Two persons pulling together, sometimes one more than the other, etc., . . . almost no one here would disagree with this plan or happening.

But still . . . this scenario has nothing to do with the entitlement attitude that most men here understand very well and that many of the women here explain away with smoke and mirrors.

As I noted before . . . this and the related thread consists of two groups talking about completely different topics, even as they each think they are responding to the alternative view.

This thread is similar to the political threads.

One group posts their views of the military situation (just using a sample topic).

Then the second group thinks they blew away these military views when they post about health care (again just picking a random topic).

[Misha]

If you can't afford to bring over a RW and provide 100% of the income, then you can't afford a RW. If you can't afford to bring over a RW and provide 100% of whatever those future needs are (college, dental, second family car, etc) then you can't afford to bring home that particular woman. Don't shop for what you can't afford.

Sorry Mendy, I did not shop for a wife, but sought a woman to love with shared life goals. The problem with your equation is that what can be afforded is contingent on wants, not needs. Few men could afford any and all wants that a woman could potentially have, other than a few billionaires. Yet, there are plenty of happily married couples in spite of this.

If you disagree, let me know when you've accomplished almost two eventful and joyful decades with a RW and then perhaps I'll listen. Until then, I'm...

Not listening is your prerogative, but I will still share my point of view.

[JohnDearGreen]

If you can't afford to bring over a RW and provide 100% of the income, then you can't afford a RW. If you can't afford to bring over a RW and provide 100% of whatever those future needs are (college, dental, second family car, etc) then you can't afford to bring home that particular woman. Don't shop for what you can't afford.

The college, dental, car are same cost if you shop for an AW.  The median income in US is about $45k, which is not enough to pay for the type of college being discussed in this thread.  So are the posters in this thread suggesting that anyone at a median income level or below should not have children (with AW or RW)? 


Sounds like reverse-entitlement behavior when the man assumes a RW will want more than an AW would want.

[Darth_Budda]

The college, dental, car are same cost if you shop for an AW.  The median income in US is about $45k, which is not enough to pay for the type of college being discussed in this thread.  So are the posters in this thread suggesting that anyone at a median income level or below should not have children (with AW or RW)? 


Sounds like reverse-entitlement behavior when the man assumes a RW will want more than an AW would want.

Money is a relative thing,,,

when you make 100K,, 1,000 is not very much.

When you make 20K,, 1,000 is a lot!!

[Faux Pas]

If you can't afford to bring over a RW and provide 100% of the income, then you can't afford a RW. If you can't afford to bring over a RW and provide 100% of whatever those future needs are (college, dental, second family car, etc) then you can't afford to bring home that particular woman. Don't shop for what you can't afford.

She is not expected to do "her share" because frankly gentlemen if we're honest when looking in the mirror, a woman usually brings more to the table in a relationship than most of men ever realize or could muster themselves. From loving us, loving our children, to improving the quality of our lives is something only a wife could manage and any attempt to define/reduce her "contribution" in financial terms is just plain silly.

Seeing everything that she brings to our family and to my life personally, I'm more concerned about keeping up with doing my share.

Grateful that the still lovely and talented Mrs. M chose me and not some other bloke,
Mendeleyev

Excellent advice Mendy and quite sharp coming from you, the perpetual nice guy. All newbies and old vets alike should read both the over and undertones. Take heed. FWIW

[Faux Pas]

Mendy, what you say is all fine and good, and most men here probably agree with you completely . . . in the particular way you frame your words and lay out the scenarios.

However, nothing you wrote gets at the point of this thread concerning the entitlement attitude of many (perhaps most) of the FSUW.

Two persons pulling together, sometimes one more than the other, etc., . . . almost no one here would disagree with this plan or happening.

But still . . . this scenario has nothing to do with the entitlement attitude that most men here understand very well and that many of the women here explain away with smoke and mirrors.

As I noted before . . . this and the related thread consists of two groups talking about completely different topics, even as they each think they are responding to the alternative view.

This thread is similar to the political threads.

One group posts their views of the military situation (just using a sample topic).

Then the second group thinks they blew away these military views when they post about health care (again just picking a random topic).

Thou does protest too much. Seems to me you are missing his point.

Sorry Mendy, I did not shop for a wife, but sought a woman to love with shared life goals. The problem with your equation is that what can be afforded is contingent on wants, not needs. Few men could afford any and all wants that a woman could potentially have, other than a few billionaires. Yet, there are plenty of happily married couples in spite of this.


Not listening is your prerogative, but I will still share my point of view.

Why so defensive over a statement that, if you are correct, wasn't meant for you? Do you not see the value in that message?