Unrealistic Expectations - Women - Entitlement Mentality

[happyandstable]

I am sorry you feel that my opinion is a personal attack it was not meant as such. It is funny though that it invoked such a strong reaction in you. You still did not give an answer to my simple yes or no question. Rather you choose to divert from the topic at hand by claiming a personal attack where there is none. We all know when there are infidelities in a marriage there are at least three people involved. The cheater, the cheatee, and the remaining faithful spouse. Sense you started all of this with a purely hypothetical proposition I see no reason why you now turn it around and take it personal. Any individual that is having sex with a married man or women is participating in an act of cheating so that makes them a cheater as well. Not to mention the fact they are also totally ignoring the fact of the non present spouse’s feelings they are trampling on. My comment was only directed to show you the logic of your view of this women not being a cheater (which she is) funny to see how virulent you got with your response when the shoe was placed on the other foot. Thank you for proving my point!

[Daveman]

..
Overall, my opinion is that people involve in adultery voluntarily. If the man wants to cheat - it does not matter whether one woman will refuse to have an affair with him, - he will find plenty of others who will agree. On the other hand, if the man is not interested in affair - he will ignore the advances of immoral "homewrecker" females. There are many interested men around me, it doesn't make me cheat.  It is dumb to shift own guilt/flaws/mistakes and blame another person "he/she did it, it's not my fault."  Within the marriage, the behavior of a third/external person is really irrelevant.

Mies, I'm having trouble understanding where this is coming from -- "It is dumb to shift own guilt/flaws/mistakes and blame another person "he/she did it, it's not my fault."

Who shifted anything?  I think I even mentioned shoot the hubby too!     We are discussing the woman in this thread, so the commentary is directed toward the woman but that doesn't mean the husband is getting a pass.  It doesn't matter if there are a million cheating enablers, each one is still an enabler who would be guilty of assisting the husband in betraying a family.  He's 100% guilty, and I agree that a third party should in no way be able to affect or harm a marriage. Everyone is different.. yet you posed the question. Some of us do think the lady should not get a free pass on her part in the affair.

My opinion is whatever two consenting adults decide to do with each other is just fine as long as no one gets hurt -- seems to me that in this situation there are a wife and children who stand to be hurt.

I'm certainly not a member of the morality police, but the woman's behavior definitely plays a role in my personal opinion of her and thus my responses/answers in the thread.

[Fashionista]

That about sums up what I find to be hideous about her...   

Don't be so judgemental. From reading her blog posts (I could only find strength to get through two, to be honest) she seems like a really really really boring person. Perhaps some infidelity on her part can spice up her poor hypothetical husband's life 

[Fashionista]

My opinion is whatever two consenting adults decide to do with each other is just fine as long as no one gets hurt -- seems to me that in this situation there are a wife and children who stand to be hurt.

I'm certainly not a member of the morality police, but the woman's behavior definitely plays a role in my personal opinion of her and thus my responses/answers in the thread.

Except that unlike him she didn't make any promises to anyone, so I don't see how it's her fault.

[Daveman]

Except that unlike him she didn't make any promises to anyone, so I don't see how it's her fault.

Now this is extremely interesting,  you and mies seem to be echoing each other on that point and it is both surprising and fascinating..  so,  is she blameless?  Is she an adulteress?  Or is it not considered adultery for the one who didn't make promises? 


This could make a decent poll question for FSUW...

[Fashionista]

Is she an adulteress?  .

At a risk of making a blanket generalization (something I hate), I'd say not in Russia she isn't

[mies]

I am sorry you feel that my opinion is a personal attack it was not meant as such. It is funny though that it invoked such a strong reaction in you. You still did not give an answer to my simple yes or no question. Rather you choose to divert from the topic at hand by claiming a personal attack where there is none. We all know when there are infidelities in a marriage there are at least three people involved. The cheater, the cheatee, and the remaining faithful spouse. Sense you started all of this with a purely hypothetical proposition I see no reason why you now turn it around and take it personal. Any individual that is having sex with a married man or women is participating in an act of cheating so that makes them a cheater as well. Not to mention the fact they are also totally ignoring the fact of the non present spouse’s feelings they are trampling on. My comment was only directed to show you the logic of your view of this women not being a cheater (which she is) funny to see how virulent you got with your response when the shoe was placed on the other foot. Thank you for proving my point!

  No, I didn't prove your point at all. I will rephrase for you my previous post, if you didn't understand it. If in a hypothetical situation my husband will have a mistress - I would not care who she is, and I would not hold anything against a specific person/woman, or against women in general. All the blame will be shared between him and me. Because we are the only two people who made this lifetime partnership contract. To me this woman is just a tool the man used to reach his objectives/satisfy his needs. And to me she isn't a cheater. I never married her. I don't know her, we didn't make any promises to each other.

And to answer your question about sugar babes - i would not hold the past of the person against them, but I would be judging carefully how they feel about me, how they make me feel, and whether we both want to be in a long-term relationship. This really isn't a rocket science, the nature of a person becomes evident quite fast, if you keep your eyes and ears open. Whether I would want to marry a sugar babe - that would depend on the amount of allowance they need and what they bring into marriage. If I am rich enough, and I want a specific man - i really would not care if he earns any money at all, frankly speaking. If his personality is interesting to me, and he has other important features - why not?

Did I prove any of your points now?

If you do not see where you made a personal attack, let me explain to you that you insinuated that my husband may have mistresses. After you called such behavior immoral. Basically, you implied that my husband can be immoral. What is it if not a personal attack on my family? Are you jealous that I have a family?

[mies]

Now this is extremely interesting,  you and mies seem to be echoing each other on that point and it is both surprising and fascinating..  so,  is she blameless?  Is she an adulteress?  Or is it not considered adultery for the one who didn't make promises? 


This could make a decent poll question for FSUW...

in my book - dating a married person is immoral, but frankly speaking - it must be too much pain in the a. for the woman who dares to do it. So I think whatever immorality she committed - she is fully punished for that already, with lonely holidays, feeling like a toy, becoming a slave to schedule of another family (the wife, children, relatives, and so on), inability to share time with friends and her boyfriend because he is too security-conscious, and this list goes on and on.

she is not the one to blame.
she is not a cheater.

[Boethius]

she is not a cheater.

Sure she is.  At the very least, she is cheating herself.

[SANDRO43]

At a risk of making a blanket generalization (something I hate), I'd say not in Russia she isn't

Even elsewhere : technically, an adulterer is a married person, not his/her extra-marital partner. 

[Fashionista]

Even elsewhere : technically, an adulterer is a married person, not his/her extra-marital partner.

Lawyered! 

[Daveman]

Even elsewhere : technically, an adulterer is a married person, not his/her extra-marital partner.

Learn something new every day.      I've actually not bother to ever look it up but rather taken the teachings of the Southern Baptists and their interpretation of the Ten Commandments... so, I just now looked it up. The definition is still ambiguous.  Merriam-Webster.com :


Definition of ADULTERY


: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband; also : an act of adultery

It doesn't indicate whether only one or both commit adultery though it does note "between", which implies "sharing".

[Daveman]

So let's eliminate the word "adultery".... and rephrase the question(s) for the ladies...





Is the woman innocent in the affair because she made no promises to anyone?  Is it considered "ok" to be the other woman?

[Admin]

Learn something new every day.      I've actually not bother to ever look it up but rather taken the teachings of the Southern Baptists and their interpretation of the Ten Commandments... so, I just now looked it up. The definition is still ambiguous.  Merriam-Webster.com :


Definition of ADULTERY


: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband; also : an act of adultery

It doesn't indicate whether only one or both commit adultery though it does note "between", which implies "sharing".

I believe the correct term for an unmarried person conducting an affair with a married person is: 'Paramour' - though I consider 'Caitiff' to be more fitting.

FWIW

- Dan

[SANDRO43]

so, I just now looked it up. The definition is still ambiguous.  Merriam-Webster.com :Definition of ADULTERY

But its definition of adulterer is:

Definition of ADULTERER: a person who commits adultery; especially : a man who commits adultery

In any case, its feminine is adulteress .

[SANDRO43]

- though I consider 'Caitiff' to be more fitting.

Hmm, where did you get that? I've never seen it used for participants in illicit trysts.

Caitiff (literally a despicable coward or wretch)
from Old French caitif ‘captive’, a varient of chaitif (French chétif), from a Proto-Romance alteration of Latin captivus ‘captive’. Compare Italian cattivo, "bad, wicked."

[ECOCKS]

Hmmmm, well the married person is part of the crime.

When I was a lot younger, I was involved with an older, married woman for a few months and I know I felt guilty of something. Maybe not prosecutable but I did something wrong and I regret it.

[GQBlues]

In a way I understand mies' point. After all, if single males are the only source of revenue for prostitutes, it likely would never have been the oldest profession mankind has ever known.

Moreover, the subject woman is not actually specifying a man's marital status in her search. She's a dalliance for any takers in exchange for her life's comfort.

[Gator]

So let's eliminate the word "adultery".... and rephrase the question(s) for the ladies...





Is the woman innocent in the affair because she made no promises to anyone?  Is it considered "ok" to be the other woman?

"Innocent" and "ok" are not the same IMO. 
 
Let us leave the sex out of this discussion and examine just the money.   If a married UM pursued this woman, she would say "yes" provided he gifted her the "big" money.  That money is not just his money; it is his family's money.   So she is indirectly taking money away from his wife and children.    That does not sound so innocent.
 
That raises the question of whether he would find another mistress if our star witness told him, "No, you are married and I do not want to harm another woman."  The likely answer is "Yes, he would have an affair with another woman."   Is it okay in Ukrainian mentality to accept the money knowing that if not he will give it to some other young dyevushka with big breasts wanting money? 
 
In an American divorce, such expenditures by the man would likely be discovered by a forensic accountant.  Upon dividing marital assets, the wife would be given an extra amount  equal to half of what he gave the mistress.  The mistress keeps the money he gave her because she has broken no laws.     She would be liable for taxes on what he gifted her.   The man loses his wife and he pays his ex-wife half of what he gave the mistress.    Because he is now poor and can only be a source of love rather than money, the mistress also leaves him.   Is that "okay?"
 
In Ukraine where men can easily hide money,  his loss is not so great.  Maybe the wife even swallows her pride and stays, knowing that the Ukrainian laws do not protect her.

[newjason]

Interesting thread..
I wonder does this woman have any idea she is the topic of all this attention?

This girl is lost.  She is in fact a sociopath.  A harlot, with an un-satisfiable thirst for more material possessions, more manipulation of the people around her, she must always be right, she must always be the best , she must always be perfect , and goes about making this happen not by being a great person, but by wrecking other people down to her level and therefore, by default, she is the leader of the losers.

I find the attitude of those who think she is not at fault because  she made no promises to be a heartless and  apathetic stance.
Maybe she did nothing wrong, but she (when she had the chance to ) also did nothing right.

I view this sort of thing as the difference between a hero and a zero.
A hero will jump into action to do the right thing or to prevent harm coming to someone, maybe even to pluck another person from eminent destruction, with total disregard for his/her own safety. It's called selflessness.
A zero, will do nothing in that same situation, and then explain that it was not them who made the situation, and therefore, doing nothing changes nothing.

Life a constant series of decisions and choices. How you choose to live and live with others and the decisions you make, are the essence of what you are.
Not telling the truth, is not lying, It is worse, it is choosing to obfuscate  the truth, and that, is the essence of evil.  Idle minds are the devils playground.

You see, like the MAN,  she also does not respect HIS commitments he made to his marriage.   Just because she makes no promises, doesn't make her exempt from respecting the relations of others. Nothing kept her from saying " no thanks, you are married ". In fact, she purposely avoided showing that kind of  respect , and therefore will not be respected.
That is the only thing that separates us (as humans) from the animals.
Ignoring what is right and what is wrong, is evil.
Using it for emotional of financial benefit is social cannibalism.

IMO  of course.

[LAman]

When you look at this situation, you got to look at the marriage. There is a problem with the husband and wife, the husband is out looking because he is not satisfied...that is between the couple....if they cannot work things out then divorce is an option. The 'other women' is just a pawn in the situation....she is getting her needs met, that is only thing she sees, while the husband apparently is getting his needs met. Of course, you have to feel bad for the wife and kids. But remember, 'the other women'...is probably just one of many...are you going to blame every women this husband sleeps with? Kinda reminds me of Tiger's situation....has an affair with what...18 women......who does the blame lie there?
No one knows what was said between a husband/wife and their lovers!!!!!

[LAman]

Interesting thread..
I wonder does this woman have any idea she is the topic of all this attention?

This girl is lost.  She is in fact a sociopath.  A harlot, with an un-satisfiable thirst for more material possessions, more manipulation of the people around her, she must always be right, she must always be the best , she must always be perfect , and goes about making this happen not by being a great person, but by wrecking other people down to her level and therefore, by default, she is the leader of the losers.

I find the attitude of those who think she is not at fault because  she made no promises to be a heartless and  apathetic stance.
Maybe she did nothing wrong, but she (when she had the chance to ) also did nothing right.

I view this sort of thing as the difference between a hero and a zero.
A hero will jump into action to do the right thing or to prevent harm coming to someone, maybe even to pluck another person from eminent destruction, with total disregard for his/her own safety. It's called selflessness.
A zero, will do nothing in that same situation, and then explain that it was not them who made the situation, and therefore, doing nothing changes nothing.

Life a constant series of decisions and choices. How you choose to live and live with others and the decisions you make, are the essence of what you are.
Not telling the truth, is not lying, It is worse, it is choosing to obfuscate  the truth, and that, is the essence of evil.  Idle minds are the devils playground.

You see, like the MAN,  she also does not respect HIS commitments he made to his marriage.   Just because she makes no promises, doesn't make her exempt from respecting the relations of others. Nothing kept her from saying " no thanks, you are married ". In fact, she purposely avoided showing that kind of  respect , and therefore will not be respected.
That is the only thing that separates us (as humans) from the animals.
Ignoring what is right and what is wrong, is evil.
Using it for emotional of financial benefit is social cannibalism.

IMO  of course.

Jason....what i find interesting is your whole post spoke of the 'other  women'.....

[newjason]

Jason....what i find interesting is your whole post spoke of the 'other  women'.....

Ahh
Well Being as the unfaithful married man is the core of this whole situation, I thought I was obvious that he is the source of the moral universe imploding.
So forgive my oversight.
If married men honored their vows, without question,  there would be a whole different social order for sure.
But, that is not how reality works.

Thus was born
Cheaters the TV series.
LOL

[newjason]

When you look at this situation, you got to look at the marriage. There is a problem with the husband and wife, the husband is out looking because he is not satisfied...that is between the couple....if they cannot work things out then divorce is an option. The 'other women' is just a pawn in the situation....she is getting her needs met, that is only thing she sees, while the husband apparently is getting his needs met. Of course, you have to feel bad for the wife and kids. But remember, 'the other women'...is probably just one of many...are you going to blame every women this husband sleeps with? Kinda reminds me of Tiger's situation....has an affair with what...18 women......who does the blame lie there?
No one knows what was said between a husband/wife and their lovers!!!!!

I agree.
+1

[GQBlues]

...Kinda reminds me of Tiger's situation....has an affair with what...18 women......who does the blame lie there?...

I was just going to post the same thing. Strange how folks react according to the subject that's perceived as someone with 'more' social value. An ordinary John Doe with a bit of cash gets away from the marauding crowd, but make him someone of notoriety, all of the sudden hatchet is swung on a different direction.

Rachel Uchitel didn't have problems getting mucho monie$ AND someone to marry her. Funny how these things work sometimes...