Are Women's Opinions Really Welcome Here?

[Darth_Budda]

People come in many flavors,,,



To each their own,,,

[Daveman]

Daveman, the opinion has nothing to do with geography. Zero.

I don't know, Doll, I think I am on to something here... let's see... take a sample of a very limited experience, broaden that experience in my mind until the relevance becomes skewed, and extrapolate theories from that skewed mental image until they bind together, coalescing into an opinion, and then cling to it with stubborn tenacity --- and then take it up a notch by closing my mind to any and all other possibilities which could provide evidence to the contrary...


A familiar recipe on the fora (ooops, forums), is it not? 

[Doll]

I don't know, Doll, I think I am on to something here... let's see... take a sample of a very limited experience, broaden that experience in my mind until the relevance becomes skewed, and extrapolate theories from that skewed mental image until they bind together, coalescing into an opinion, and then cling to it with stubborn tenacity --- and then take it up a notch by closing my mind to any and all other possibilities which could provide evidence to the contrary...


A familiar recipe on the fora (ooops, forums), is it not?

Yes, it is.
So, our experience (ooooops, opinion based on experience) is much more valid- just because we are from that country.
I am BTW perfectly aware of some sort of "negativism" of Russians, but you need to accept it how it is.
 

[Darth_Budda]

LoL!  Perhaps I've become a little 'Russian' over the years..  fine by me..  hopefully I've become more "blended" and therefore a stronger, better, smarter, and overall more well rounded man! 


But thinking about it even more.. it seems that the "Bitch about everything American" can be isolated further to Western Russia...  I don't recall a single woman from Siberia to Vladivostok with that attitude..  seriously...  though my sample is admittedly quite small...

Could this be because of a live style that is closer to that in america? Not the consumerism part but more of the Alaskan wilderness type experience Or because these places were very far from Moscow "less bureaucratic control" and much less populated "Like rural America"?

[Doll]

Darth_Budda, it is NOT geographical. There is something different in "Siberian" way of expressing the thoughts -just like the Texas person is different from Maine one.
Probably, people are more reserved that doesn't mean they think differently.
 

[Faux Pas]

Darth_Budda, it is NOT geographical. There is something different in "Siberian" way of expressing the thoughts -just like the Texas person is different from Maine one.
Probably, people are more reserved that doesn't mean they think differently.

Doesn't mean they all think the same either 

[Doll]

Doesn't mean they all think the same either 

No, but there can not be any generalization about "geograhy". I have friends here from all over Russia (St. Petersburg-Vladivostok) with same vision of the situation.

[Daveman]

No, but there can not be any generalization about "geograhy". I have friends here from all over Russia (St. Petersburg-Vladivostok) with same vision of the situation.

ah HA! none from Ukraine! It *is* a Russian phenomenon! 

[Doll]

ah HA! none from Ukraine! It *is* a Russian phenomenon! 

OMG! I am just lazy to add UW, BW or any other "w")))
Yes, I have friends from Ukraine as well. Actually the whole Ukrainian family are my friends locally (here in PA).
There is no difference for me at all- I was raised in the Soviet Union so have no preferences at all.
Dave, you are so tiring sometimes! 

[Donna_Pedro]

Why?

Maybe  I am missing something?

Jason

People tend to forget that this is internet, ie letters on PC screen, not REAL LIFE!  So why dont we all take it as such.   Internet is a chance to talk openly about many things you would not otherwise. Take advantage out of it and ignore insults. You are not forced to read everything too. You dont like someone? Dont read his (her) post. Is it really so hard to ignore letters on your screen?   As for the "immigrants go away if you dont like this or that" .. its a weak and childish argument, which talks a ton about someone who uses it. If this is a person's best shot, then.. well, pitiful.

[Doll]

Donna, don't we hear a lot of b-tching from Americans here? A lot! Where are they supposed to go? 

[newjason]

FWIW

Everyone's opinion is valid and valued at RWD. Should a RW's opinion be more valued than a WM's? Absolutely not, nor vice-versa. Opinions are like buttholes, everybody has one. Vasilisa's truth was her truth, doesn't mean it's the next man's or woman's. She jumped into the thick of the fray and expressed her position in that thread repeatedly. Then, she got her feelings hurt. Should she have been given a pass or some sort of "special consideration"?

Opinions and posts at RWD usually hold up by their own merit, or not. I personally thought calmissle was over the top with that insulting post but, it was his opinion.

What is it you are suggesting Jason?

F P
I am suggesting nothing yet.


I think neither person should be given a pass or special consideration. 

However, I do want to know where the line is drawn (if at all) for offensive and disrespectful comments.
It went beyond hurt feelings, IMO it was  xenophobia.
I was offended,  and I don't get offended very often.



I don't have enough information to make suitable suggestion.  I am asking the questions because I want to know what are the boundaries and If this sort of thing happens often.
Then I will proceed from that point.

[Fashionista]

Maybe  I am missing something?

Jason

Well, it's internet, it's conveniently anonymous, everyone's true personality come through... I don't think this particular message board is any more offensive than others. Some people are inherently classy and they address issues, not attack people, while others... well... There are some posters who seek information, and some are simply trying to get a rise out of people. As far as I am concerned the inflammatory threads are better avoided altogether.

By the way, believe it or not, FSU immigrants say that to each other all the time too - if you don't like it here - here is a suitcase, train station, off you go... 

[Doll]

What is it you are suggesting Jason?

Actually, Jason asks Russian women what they feel about their opinion here.
See-Спросите русских женщин?
So he asked Russian women.
So far, there are just two of them (awake)
All the rest just tell us what to feel. Very typical.
They tell us about Siberia versus Western Russia, they tell us to really differentiate between Ukrainian and Russians.
It is very funny.
Спросите русских женщин! For the God sake!   Ask and listen.

[OlgaH]

Maybe  I am missing something?
Jason

Jason,

I think you missed my post
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14534.msg293003#msg293003

[bruttus]

Some of the women like to stoke sparks into fires and then complain when it gets hot or are seemingly surprised when they get burned.


I wonder what Bruttus' opinion of the treatment of Vasilisa would be?

well, i don't know whats happend, but i appreciated Vasilisa here opinion about mine story
doesn't mean that i had to agree what she was telling, but it make you think how Vasilisa saw it
i would beg to make here come back to this forum, because she is a great value, maybe allot disagree with me, but she made mine link to a really discussion

[newjason]

newjason,I've been reading and posting on this forum and the one that was before (not sure exactly is they are related but it doesn't matter) for many years.
 
Not that often but time to time RW opinions are "not valued".
I remember the thread about Ken's (not sure about this nickname) divorce. I experienced an ugly attack of AM members of this board. Absolutely mens  chauvinistic
attack. I suspected this attitude towards RW (not just those on the board), but then it became clear.
 
 Since then I've tried to not participate in the threads too much.
Then I observed more "things" in my and other RW's lives, so now I have a strong feeling (will never change it)  that the attitude towards "RW's opinions" on this forum is an indication of the whole MOB phenomenon.
 Another thing that makes AM members mad and rude is the very manner if writing.
Perhaps, some AM are aware of a different "style" of speaking or writing of the FSU people but AM do not bare it at all. We (RW) have to write exactly the way they are used to, anything else is attacked.
Of course, RW have their own  perspectives just because they belong to their culture and they are or were the "other" part of MOB process. They (we) know things that AM will NEVER know. AM  just don't want to realize it.
 

I have to agree. My ex was blunt and straight foward, almost to the point of being abrasive.  I guess after a few years I just got used to it and I can see how an AM could misconstrue this type of conversation very easily.  But, It still is not an excuse for loosing control.  But that too is debateable at times  LOL.
Doll you are in PA?
My mom is from Jim Thorpre and most of my family on her side is still there. 

[Doll]

I am in PA.

[Faux Pas]

Well, it's internet, it's conveniently anonymous, everyone's true personality come through... I don't think this particular message board is any more offensive than others. Some people are inherently classy and they address issues, not attack people, while others... well... There are some posters who seek information, and some are simply trying to get a rise out of people. As far as I am concerned the inflammatory threads are better avoided altogether.

By the way, believe it or not, FSU immigrants say that to each other all the time too - if you don't like it here - here is a suitcase, train station, off you go... 

+1

F P
I am suggesting nothing yet.


I think neither person should be given a pass or special consideration. 

However, I do want to know where the line is drawn (if at all) for offensive and disrespectful comments.
It went beyond hurt feelings, IMO it was  xenophobia.
I was offended,  and I don't get offended very often.



I don't have enough information to make suitable suggestion.  I am asking the questions because I want to know what are the boundaries and If this sort of thing happens often.
Then I will proceed from that point.

As mentioned, this is an opportunity to speak frankly. The line is the TOS of RWD and/or where you personally draw it. Where you draw it states a lot about you as both a poster/member and a person. There are a whole host of reasons why some here and they are not at all because they are seeking a FSUW or wishing to help those that do. While there is ample help here for those that seek it there are also those who post for no other reason than to draw a negative response. Different people at different times swap their position or which side of the fence they're on or forced to based on the issue.

The thing here is, and it took me several years to figure it out (not without some pointing me in that direction) It's all words on a screen, take what you need and leave the rest. Don't take any of it personally even if the poster meant it that way. If you do happen to take it personally, it's okay to not respond. Neither your integrity or manhood is compromised. There's a lot of good stuff here no matter what one's position or circumstance may be. Gender should play no role in that regard IMHO.

Vasilisa will have to work out her feelings. Comeback or stay away is entirely up to her. She fired some shots calmissle's way. Kind of like wanting to get a chance at the plate then complaining when you get hit by a pitch, yanno?

[Doll]

Speaking of Ukraine))))) I heard more than one time from Americans say "go back to Russia" addressed to Ukrainians.

[newjason]

Actually, Jason asks Russian women what they feel about their opinion here.
See-Спросите русских женщин?
So he asked Russian women.
So far, there are just two of them (awake)
All the rest just tell us what to feel. Very typical.
They tell us about Siberia versus Western Russia, they tell us to really differentiate between Ukrainian and Russians.
It is very funny.
Спросите русских женщин! For the God sake!   Ask and listen.

Yes, I do very much want to hear from the women how they feel about this.   The board does boast about equality and valuing opinions.  So is it just in theory? or is in practice too.   We will all know soon I think.   
 

[Fashionista]

The board does boast about equality and valuing opinions.   

This is very good. I'll be talking exclusively to the board from now on...I'll be very surprized if he is still single...

[Daveman]

F P
I am suggesting nothing yet.


I think neither person should be given a pass or special consideration. 

However, I do want to know where the line is drawn (if at all) for offensive and disrespectful comments.
It went beyond hurt feelings, IMO it was  xenophobia.
I was offended,  and I don't get offended very often.



I don't have enough information to make suitable suggestion.  I am asking the questions because I want to know what are the boundaries and If this sort of thing happens often.
Then I will proceed from that point.

What exactly caused you to feel offended?


Vasilisa's main "problem" as I see it, is that she thinks/thought her opinion to be 'truth', and that others need accept it as truth as well.  Again, I wonder what Bruttus thinks of her being offended.


I admit, I like Vasilisa's persona.  She's intelligent, articulate, and an asset to RWD, as is Doll, and all the FSUW ladies who take the time to post here... Boethius too (who is about as Ukrainian as Ukrainian gets, in a distinctly Canadian sort of way.. heh).  Does that mean we should kiss their collective hind parts to get them to stay?  They wouldn't respect us as at all if we did.  Yet, there should be some kind of a balance on the scales with regard to disagreement and (posting with) respect - if not to each other then at least to RWD to which the ToS each individual agreed to abide *prior* to becoming a member.  Yes, the "personal" aspect of these situations could be toned down and even removed, but that still would not stop individuals from taking posts personally.


Your question of where the line is drawn is valid though the answer is not as crystal clear.  RWD stands apart from other boards, IMO, because we adhere to the concept of "self moderation".. meaning that *most* all commentary is allowed to remain, and it is the responsibility of the forum members to "moderate" the threads.  This lends a more raw, "tell it like it is", or perhaps more correctly "express what's on your mind" kind of quality to our pages. Most of the time this approach works well.. sometimes it doesn't. 


Does it happen often?  Sure, members become offended for one reason or another, make final declarations of "good-bye" and then vanish... for a while..  generally they return after having had opportunity to calm down and then "rationally" see the situation for what it is. Sometimes they do not return, which is unfortunate but still their choice to make.


There is a considerable amount of raw emotion here sometimes.. that's a double edged sword in some ways.  Do we really want a homogenized forum?  Would that better serve our members?  I think not, though I'm sure opinions will vary.


Dave

[newjason]

+1

As mentioned, this is an opportunity to speak frankly. The line is the TOS of RWD and/or where you personally draw it. Where you draw it states a lot about you as both a poster/member and a person. There are a whole host of reasons why some here and they are not at all because they are seeking a FSUW or wishing to help those that do. While there is ample help here for those that seek it there are also those who post for no other reason than to draw a negative response. Different people at different times swap their position or which side of the fence they're on or forced to based on the issue.

The thing here is, and it took me several years to figure it out (not without some pointing me in that direction) It's all words on a screen, take what you need and leave the rest. Don't take any of it personally even if the poster meant it that way. If you do happen to take it personally, it's okay to not respond. Neither your integrity or manhood is compromised. There's a lot of good stuff here no matter what one's position or circumstance may be. Gender should play no role in that regard IMHO.

Vasilisa will have to work out her feelings. Comeback or stay away is entirely up to her. She fired some shots calmissle's way. Kind of like wanting to get a chance at the plate then complaining when you get hit by a pitch, yanno?

I understand, and I have withheld what I really think about what happened, just for that reason.
It is a shame that we lost Vasilisa. While she  could be quite annoying, and she was busting his balls continually, He took it like a man, up til the end when the true colors showed.  I think she was a good equalizer and a valuable member here.

[Doll]

Yes, I do very much want to hear from the women how they feel about this.   The board does boast about equality and valuing opinions.  So is it just in theory? or is in practice too.   We will all know soon I think.   
 

I already know it. 10 years in the country and a little less on AM forums.
Jason, if you really want to know the RW opinion- go to their Forum (Russian wives in the USA/abroad).