Dating AW (kisses, sex, qualities)

[Gator]

Well, just a few differences:

• CM show less ''conquering'' activities towards a woman. As one pretty single immigrant girl noted to me, ''Here, if you tell him no, he understands it as no and moves from you. A FSU guy would not take a no for an answer and will be persistent in getting to a yes from you''
• CM don't expect the usual care from a woman.If he visits you, he is not hoping for a nice handmade dinner in your home, and for a subsequent breakfast served by a woman. I have not seen any RM who was not convinced that if he is about to visit the woman's home, he is entitled to being wined and dined either by her or by her mother 
• A CM will not disqualify a woman from his dating pool only because she was born a few years earlier than himself.
• CM do not openly tell to their date that she has competitors.
• If a woman is different from the others, they won't tell that she is ''wrong'' but rather individual 
• CM don't expect the woman to be responsible for the birth control measures.
• etc etc etc 

A thorough explanation, as I would expect from a gifted analytical mind.   
 
Frankly, RM sound like bullying, reckless teenage boys.   No wonder progressively thinking RW are turned off by RM dating behavior. I recall you stating exactly that when we met many years ago to deliver your books.  And the Moscow woman with me agreed 100%.

[Gator]

Vasilisa, you are right about it. From my observations, the local men  don't assume that the woman's goal is to get married. An unmarried and childless woman is not considered a failure here. Some men  recognize friendly sex. It is everything about agreements here. If both people are okay with it,  let's do it. People talk to each other about their wants and needs openly, they don:t asume things by default.
And yes, individuality is uch more often in play here. Different parents, different upbringing in a man.

This introduces another variable into finding someone.  Besides personality, appearance, intellect, etc.,  the concept of a relationship varies widely among individuals.  Are there any traditional men?   
 
 

[Gator]

Let me correct this for you. It is not if but when.

I had the impression that over 50% of the  people who marry young and build a life together do not divorce.   Over half of my friends are still married to their first wife.  Interestingly, these people seem very happy and for sure are well adjusted.   
 
The  overall divorce rate among all married couples is skewed by the high number of failed second and third marriages.   Given that most AM-RW marriages are second marriages, perhaps "when" is correct.  I suggest that RW looking to retool thier career should consider family law or senior care.

However, the male of the species' behavioral patterns have stayed the same, or at least have been instructed to maintain status quo.

Has he?   I have remained the traditional male for my entire life.  However, I am a dinosaur and we once ruled the earth.      I had the impression that the relationship changes were made by men as well as women.   In this case, I agree that the chicken (women) came before the egg (man).

[Muzh]

Has he?   I have remained the traditional male for my entire life.  However, I am a dinosaur and we once ruled the earth.      I had the impression that the relationship changes were made by men as well as women.   In this case, I agree that the chicken (women) came before the egg (man).

Men invented the source (the pill) but did not implement the changes. 

[Patagonie]

Hello again  Vasilisa.

I just spent about 40 minutes composing this big long exlpaination and response to your questions , but just now erased it. 

The truth is,  I have no idea.   

But I think I will know it when I see it.

I can have all these expectations and qualifications, but what good does that do except to close my mind.  If it feels right, It is a good start.

I can tell you that by you presenting your intentions at the very start,  ( I am looking for a husband to marry me) you will drive away all the men who are not serious. 

what Pat  is saying makes a lot of sense to me too.

You are going to freak a lot of guys out at first, because they have never encounter a woman who tells what she really thinks, and thinks what she really tells.  WW do not do that.


AW: omg  my head hurts so bad.

AM: are you ok?

AW: yes, I am fine. Don't worry about me.

AM:  ok.

AW: what? why are you not worrying about me?

AM: you said not to..

AW: I know what I said.  But you need to worry about me.  and I should not have to tell you. you should just do it.

AM: BUt, you said NOT TO.

AW: If  you really loved me, you would worry about me, and I would never  have to tell you, it makes me feel like you dont' care about me because you neve listen to me.

Get the idea?

Typical BS conversation, often happens in the west...

[Belvis]

Well, just a few differences:

• CM show less ''conquering'' activities towards a woman. As one pretty single immigrant girl noted to me, ''Here, if you tell him no, he understands it as no and moves from you. A FSU guy would not take a no for an answer and will be persistent in getting to a yes from you''

  Yes, that's how it works in Russia  . She says NO, so what? Can't she change her mind? Try a few attacks untill she kicked you off. If you did not try are you really into her?

RW joke: «есть мужчины, с которыми легче переспать, чем объяснить, почему ты этого не хочешь» (It is easier to sleep with some men than explain them why you're not want to )

[Shadow]

A thorough explanation, as I would expect from a gifted analytical mind.   
 
Frankly, RM sound like bullying, reckless teenage boys.   No wonder progressively thinking RW are turned off by RM dating behavior. I recall you stating exactly that when we met many years ago to deliver your books.  And the Moscow woman with me agreed 100%.

That is why elder men who still act like teenage boys are attractive for FSUW. 

[ML]

• CM don't expect the usual care from a woman.If he visits you, he is not hoping for a nice handmade dinner in your home, and for a subsequent breakfast served by a woman. I have not seen any RM who was not convinced that if he is about to visit the woman's home, he is entitled to being wined and dined either by her or by her mother 

I was just thinking about this, and came to interesting (for me) realization.

Virtually all of my longer term and serious relationships were with women who did prepare meals for me very early in our relationship, whether at their place or my place.

I didn't request these meals and never even really expected them.

Don't know what it really says.  Perhaps the women who did this had other related characteristics that helped us mesh.  Perhaps the women who did this were more interested in me which also came out in other related ways.

[GQBlues]

You believe everything  women say?!   

Sure! Every chance I get... 
 
Vasilia, on a serious note, I concur with everything Lily has said in this thread. It appears to me that she had in fact caught on with some on the social/dating norm in this hemisphere. Methinks maybe you're driving much of your social disposition with FSU mentality. Like Muzh said, marriage isn't focal in most social interaction around these parts, both for the women and men.
 
A popular term used extensively in many social venue. "Your sense of immediateness will never be my cause of urgency".
 
As for asking general social/dating tendencies...that's akin to asking 11 blindfolded men to describe the elephant in the room. None, zip, nada will ever be helpful in your cause.
 
Many of the single FSUWs living where we are (almost) have the exact same attitude I sense here. Unlike AWs their age/s, there always seem to be this urgency to BE IN a relationship geared specifically towards marriage. If that is your motive, I can't say you won't arrive to your destination, but just be prepared for a rough ride.

[Shadow]

I was just thinking about this, and came to interesting (for me) realization.

Virtually all of my longer term and serious relationships were with women who did prepare meals for me very early in our relationship, whether at their place or my place.

I didn't request these meals and never even really expected them.

Don't know what it really says.  Perhaps the women who did this had other related characteristics that helped us mesh.  Perhaps the women who did this were more interested in me which also came out in other related ways.

Basic human instincts. Male provides the meat, woman prepares.

[JohnDearGreen]

You can hunt a trophy or a prey, but how can you hunt someone who is your equal?

The difficult part is that most are not hunting their equal.  Almost everyone looks for more.
In the video below is 50's star J.C. His wife appears at the 2:30min mark.
Are the 60 year old men here better looking than teen idol J.C.?
Are the 60 year old men here searching for a lady like this?
(We probably aren't and we probably aren't. )  Notice I said we, probably including myself.

[Shadow]

The difficult part is that most are not hunting their equal.  Almost everyone looks for more.
In the video below is 50's star J.C. His wife appears at the 2:30min mark.
Are the 60 year old men here better looking than teen idol J.C.?
Are the 60 year old men here searching for a lady like this?
(We probably aren't and we probably aren't. )  Notice I said we, probably including myself.

His wife was a model and they married in 1962. If after 38 ears of marriage my wife would look like that I would be proud.

[missAmeno]

Well, just a few differences:

• CM show less ''conquering'' activities towards a woman. As one pretty single immigrant girl noted to me, ''Here, if you tell him no, he understands it as no and moves from you. A FSU guy would not take a no for an answer and will be persistent in getting to a yes from you''
• CM don't expect the usual care from a woman.If he visits you, he is not hoping for a nice handmade dinner in your home, and for a subsequent breakfast served by a woman. I have not seen any RM who was not convinced that if he is about to visit the woman's home, he is entitled to being wined and dined either by her or by her mother 
• A CM will not disqualify a woman from his dating pool only because she was born a few years earlier than himself.
• CM do not openly tell to their date that she has competitors.
• If a woman is different from the others, they won't tell that she is ''wrong'' but rather individual 
• CM don't expect the woman to be responsible for the birth control measures.
• etc etc etc 

I had a laugh reading this. Well CM then not that different from british men. However very soon after few nice handmade dinners and subsequent breakfasts will start conversation "lets live together"

[Admin]

I had a laugh reading this. Well CM then not that different from british men. However very soon after few nice handmade dinners and subsequent breakfasts will start conversation "lets live together"

Hi MissAmeno,

Welcome to RWD. As this is your first post here, it would be nice if you would stop in our Introductions forum and offer a bit of information about yourself, why you arrived here, and how we might be able to help in your 'journey.'

- Dan

[missAmeno]

Hi MissAmeno,

Welcome to RWD. As this is your first post here, it would be nice if you would stop in our Introductions forum and offer a bit of information about yourself, why you arrived here, and how we might be able to help in your 'journey.'

- Dan

Hi Dan, thanks  I will try to find Introductions section 

[Admin]

Hi Dan, thanks  I will try to find Introductions section 

It was in the PM that greeted you when you registered . . . . or, click here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?board=41.0

- Dan

[Lily]

The difficult part is that most are not hunting their equal.  Almost everyone looks for more.

I totally agree with you. An AM would want to use some efforts in case he meets someone who is a real trade up for him, the one who brings with her something that usually would be out of his reach. Then a man wold use his hunting abilities.  Why would they do otherwise.
 

[Shadow]

I totally agree with you. An AM would want to use some efforts in case he meets someone who is a real trade up for him, the one who brings with her something that usually would be out of his reach. Then a man wold use his hunting abilities.  Why would they do otherwise.

I would love to have hunted my equal, but where do you find a super-attractive, very intelligent, incredibly rich and very modest Russian girl....

[Eduard]

I understand that people are different and each case is unique, I am just trying to get a general idea.
What is expected by majority.

Speaking about me , well, for example if I am dating the person  who I met on the website, I know nothing of (he is not a friend) I don't even understand how can you have a kiss with him on the first date.
And chemistry and my liking him  has nothing to do with it, it's just a simple measure of precaution and staying healthy.
I am not an animal to jump on the person because I have instant chemistry with him and get some some of STD, I want to save myself healthy for the one who is the one.

I think it's a good policy. Many people on US dating sites misrepresent themselves. It's good to get to know some one before you become intimate. If you become intimate too soon just because he's got a great bod and there is chemistry there you may find out that he is a real jerk in just a few days and will feel really bad that you shared intimacy with this person.

[ML]

I think it's a good policy. Many people on US dating sites misrepresent themselves. It's good to get to know some one before you become intimate. If you become intimate too soon just because he's got a great bod and there is chemistry there you may find out that he is a real jerk in just a few days and will feel really bad that you shared intimacy with this person.

Eduard, man up here.  We men are wanting the women to loosen up and spread the sex around freely.  We figure their mothers are not posting here to remind the gals to keep their legs tightly crossed.  Then here you come along  and serve as their mother.  Traitor.

[Eduard]

Eduard, man up here.  We men are wanting the women to loosen up and spread the sex around freely.  We figure their mothers are not posting here to remind the gals to keep their legs tightly crossed.  Then here you come along  and serve as their mother.  Traitor.

some of us simply grew up and matured while other are still on the prowl   

[SFandEE]

Vasillsa--American culture is vast, but in order to answer this question I think it would be good to have a sense of the responders culture.  Religion, region, ethnicity, and probably also really important generation will impact a response. 


My answer to questions like that would be I don't like rules, I like chemistry.  I do think resisting chemistry in the beginning has it's benefits later on, but no rules.  Marriage is definitely in decline in the US and with religion and economic reasons for marriage diminishing it is likely to continue to decline.  I think it was Gator who posted something like marriage should not be a destination.  That is what I call wisdom.  Marriage and making babies are pretty easy to do--building a great relationship and  raising children--much, much more demanding proposition.  For some reason Brittney Spears comes to mind.

[mies]

Basic human instincts. Male provides the meat, woman prepares.

I just realized that all men whom I liked were feeding me and cooking for me. My husband cooks for me the most delicious food.
Аватар «Красный кот гладит рыбу» с 99px.ru — аватары

[mies]

Vasilisa, I am not a man but I believe the woman was suggesting 9 months before proposal is about right. Up to 1 year is believed to be the normal time to decide whether both partners are marriage minded and whether their life goals are well-aligned. If the guy wants freedom and chemistry, and the woman wants chemistry and marriage, I do not think their life goals are compatible.
 I also know that there are sufficient number of marriage-minded men to make the marriage-minded women happy. Living with a person who has different life goals is fooling yourself, and possibly - fooling them too. Unproductive and leads nowhere. All said above is true for FSU, it is also true for USA. 

 If the man is in the relationship only for "chemistry" - chemistry changes after the first year-two-three etc. It does not necessarily gets weaker, but it does get different. I strongly believe that fancy words "marriage is not important, chemistry and connection are" are invented by guys who do not want to marry for their individual reasons, and who are afraid of commitment. I personally do not see any contradiction in "marriage" and "chemistry." Marriage by itself does not kill chemistry and does not prevent connection between the two partners. If the guy insists on "no marriage" - then clearly some connection is missing, at least on his part.
 

[pitbull]

Vasilisa, I am not a man but I believe the woman was suggesting 9 months before proposal is about right. Up to 1 year is believed to be the normal time to decide whether both partners are marriage minded and whether their life goals are well-aligned. If the guy wants freedom and chemistry, and the woman wants chemistry and marriage, I do not think their life goals are compatible.
I also know that there are sufficient number of marriage-minded men to make the marriage-minded women happy. Living with a person who has different life goals is fooling yourself, and possibly - fooling them too. Unproductive and leads nowhere. All said above is true for Russia, it is also true for USA.

+1