I'll give you guys some feedback based on what I experienced in russia

[Konfushus]

What would be the reaction if someone posted this -

Russian men seem to not have very much loyalty. I was in Russia most of this past year and men were cheating on their wives and girlfriends left and right...

I wonder because I recall reading similar statements in the archives here and nobody batted an eye. It's also a typical excuse given by women signing up on marriage sites.
Any thoughts?

[Gator]

Konfushus,
 
Good point.     Given the degree of corruption in the society, one should not be surprised by the statement.  My only question is who are the men cheating with?   The wives and girlfriends must also be cheating, or otherwise there are some extremely busy RW.
 
The point is that not everyone cheats.    And when you find someone who comes from this environment yet seeks loyal fidelity, she is indeed precious.  Treat her right.   But maybe some American men don't care because there are many AM and AW who do cheat.

[Gator]

 

But that's hardly the stance Mendeleyev took on all his initial posts. It reached a point he became condescending. It reached a point he became condescending. You can deny it if you want, but that would be your call......As a life scholar you so alluded him to be, he should have known the distinction between vinegar...honey.

Mendel's questioning was indeed direct.  Even though his requests were ignored, he did not give up on AB and even finds him "engaging" (as expressed in the posts you say are "still here for anyone to read").  Engaging is not an adjective used in condescension.   

Please recognize that the boinking crowd highly approved of AB.  Yet AB had little to say about the charm of Russia and its people.  I have read multiple accounts of men with seemingly the same attitude who  brought home a RW wife with the expectation that she would become totally Americanized and somehow forget what molded her.  I contend that when you marry a RW, you welcome Russia into your life and become inculcated by what is best about it. 
 
I understand that AB is not looking for a RW wife.  Yet he was involved in serious relationships and should be aware of the totality  of the women.

[Daveman]

What would be the reaction if someone posted this -

Russian men seem to not have very much loyalty. I was in Russia most of this past year and men were cheating on their wives and girlfriends left and right...

I wonder because I recall reading similar statements in the archives here and nobody batted an eye. It's also a typical excuse given by women signing up on marriage sites.
Any thoughts?

Well, men are supposed to be known for and proud of their uncontrollable prowess!!  While women should be virginal and await the one and only Prince of Peckerdom!


For every cheater there is a cheatee, or an enabler... as has been said many times...




I'm just not convinced that the percentage difference there/here would be statistically significant...

[Faux Pas]

What would be the reaction if someone posted this -

Russian men seem to not have very much loyalty. I was in Russia most of this past year and men were cheating on their wives and girlfriends left and right...

I wonder because I recall reading similar statements in the archives here and nobody batted an eye. It's also a typical excuse given by women signing up on marriage sites.
Any thoughts?

Yes I've seen that many times and when I do see it, usually I feel compelled to state what "I" know about the RM I know personally. Which is 180 opposite of those claims. I know personally and very well through the wife's family and friendships of my own, probably a dozen Russian men. All are stand up guys who love their families, want the best and as far as I can tell love and cherish their wives. A couple of them drink much too often but, I know quite a few AM that do just as much. I even imbibe on occasion myself.  In any event, it gets boring and repetitious and I usually don't bother anymore.

Maybe you understand or maybe you don't but, many of the men that come to forums under the pretense of seeking information, aren't seeking information at all. They only seek validation to the myth and their own fantasies. Looking for reasons other than themselves for their own social ineptness. Blaming Western women and FSUM is usually the quickest validation they find. IMHO

[Konfushus]

Who are the boinking crowd that highly approve of AB? With a lot of the comments here I feel like I must be missing something or reading some other thread. Do I need some lemon juice to decipher the secret posts that I'm missing?

[LiveFromUkraine]

Mendel's questioning was indeed direct.  Even though his requests were ignored, he did not give up on AB and even finds him "engaging" (as expressed in the posts you say are "still here for anyone to read").  Engaging is not an adjective used in condescension.   

Please recognize that the boinking crowd highly approved of AB.  Yet AB had little to say about the charm of Russia and its people.  I have read multiple accounts of men with seemingly the same attitude who  brought home a RW wife with the expectation that she would become totally Americanized and somehow forget what molded her.  I contend that when you marry a RW, you welcome Russia into your life and become inculcated by what is best about it. 
 
I understand that AB is not looking for a RW wife.  Yet he was involved in serious relationships and should be aware of the totality  of the women.

He answered Mendy.  He stated he had very little experience outside his hospital bubble.  I don't know why people can't accept that answer.

I also must have read something different.  From what I got, he had very nice things to say about the warmth and friendliness of the people he met.  He said many times people had great hearts.

Maybe people just want to recognize the negative comments while glossing over the positive.   Boinking crowd?  haha  Maybe as you get older you concentrate on the sex part and can't hear or see the rest.   

[mies]

What would be the reaction if someone posted this -

Russian men seem to not have very much loyalty. I was in Russia most of this past year and men were cheating on their wives and girlfriends left and right...

I wonder because I recall reading similar statements in the archives here and nobody batted an eye. It's also a typical excuse given by women signing up on marriage sites.
Any thoughts?

I am acquainted with 1 ukrainian men who cheated. I've heard of few more  - russian and ukrainian. Otherwise all of my friends, colleagues and relatives never cheat.
But those are all normal people. I do not have millionaires or billionaires in my circle of friends. One of my ex-colleagues was a lover of the company CEO. He was a millionaire, and going through mid-age crisis. Had fallen in love with her, cheated on his wife for some time, then divorced his wife and was going to marry this young woman. Too bad that few weeks before the wedding he was shot on the stairs of the company office by a killer hired by his competitors.

If you see cheating men mentioned on dating sites, and these comments come from women with failed marriages, naturally they are going to voice some dissatisfaction with their ex-husbands. Because those women who are happily married to Russian men cannot be seen on dating sites.

But back to the topic of cheating men - no, I do not think that majority or men in Russia or Ukraine cheat. The oligarchs are completely different species, so I will not be passing any judgment about them. I can say many wonderful things about Russian and Ukrainian men.

[mies]

Yes I've seen that many times and when I do see it, usually I feel compelled to state what "I" know about the RM I know personally. Which is 180 opposite of those claims. I know personally and very well through the wife's family and friendships of my own, probably a dozen Russian men. All are stand up guys who love their families, want the best and as far as I can tell love and cherish their wives.

Thank you, Faux Pas 

[AmericanBoy]

 maybe you should inquire about my "loving" style before agreeing for it. Just a thought. 
I'm not worried about it. I like attention, whether it be good or bad...

hm. Do you at least understand what you wrote? In response "maybe he was cheating and seeing cheaters because he was weak" you proudly announce "my true strength and character are revealed when I am weakest."


You have an interesting way of twisting everyting. You said these people were weak mentally/emotionally amongst many other things and maybe that's what pushed them to cheat or behave the way they did, my answer to that was the above. I never said "my true strength", I was speaking in general and included myself in that generalization
 
As for the brain size inside each of our respective heads - as we say in Russian только вот не надо здесь начинать меряться пиписьками.
Here is the situation I see it: you meet a young woman in dare state, "a mess" as you call her. She broke up with her husband (i don't know what happened between them), she has a small daughter who is sick for lifetime, her chances to meet a man for marriage in Russia are minimal, but she can meet as many men for sex as she wants. Even men who would support her financially. She desperately needs a reliable man who can support her and be part of her life indefinitely - emotionally and financially, not for 6 months, a real partner if you know what i mean (I fear you don't). Then you appear in her life, accept her signs of affection, flirt maybe, start a relationship with her, even though you know from day 1 that you cannot give you what she needs, that she is an "emotional mess" and cannot think straight, and that you will leave her behind. But she can give you what you need, so you take it. In my view, it's a clear cut case of taking advantage. And after you leave her after using her as a tool, a utensil, for 6 months, you write her "I hope you will meet another good man" to a woman who loves you, and whose life is still pretty much a mess, and send her $338 as a parting gift. This is unbelievably cruel. It may take long time for your little brain to process, but as you grow wiser (hopefully), over time you will understand what I am saying.   
   or, sure. Like foreign countries cannot provide treatment. In Europe I've heard there is some form of subsidized medicine.
 This statement could be true, in your self-serving imaginary world.

Unfortunately just about everything your little brain has concluded is wrong.

Again, she knew the whole time we'd never be nothing. In fact I remember when we first start talking, I was suppose to leave in 2 weeks and I warned that I was good at stealing hearts and  she needed to be careful because soon I'll leave but even sooner she'd love me. It might sound as a joke, but I was being serious because I saw it happen many many times. She told me she was 28, not 18 and I didn't need to be worried.

She didn't "break up" with her husband, they divorced 4 years ago and she's been alone eve since. She said before she came to the hospital she had lost the meaning of life. She would lay on the couch and do nothing and her weight dropped below 50 kilos. She ended up seeing a psychologist because people feared she would die. She sent her daughter to live with her mom for 4 months so she could try and see what the world had to offer and to meet people but her heart wouldnt allow it and it shut everyone out. I told you guys I found out she had a boy, this was true. After seeing the doctor she said the boy came into her life at the right time and they created some bond, she said she needed him. Later I found out she was writing him telling she loved him, misses him blah blah blah. I was pretty upset/hurt so I confronted her. Her excuse, "they were just words and he meant nothing to her".

To say I took advantage of her is comedy. You saw the picture of her, she's amazing. You saw the the video, she's fun. She's not dying for a guy and there are plenty of russian guys who are much better looking, much richer, much more charismatic, much everything better than me that would be interested in her.  She's super friendly/outgoing/bubbly so everyone loves her and I honestly think she could make any boy fall in love with her. She said all these guys were after her but she had no trust for man after her husband. Then I came into the picture and I was the first guy to open her heart.. I think many girls fall for me because I'm a decent looking guy, that's super friendly and easy to talk to, and I don't give off the threat of trying to get into their pants.  She said she heard lots of talks about me but had no interest because I was amercica but didn't mind becoming friends. She expected the relationship to be like any other guy she talked to "just friends". Unfortunately or maybe fortunately quickly she gave me her heart, I think within 10 days she started telling me she loved me and I was the prince she waited for all her life all this lovey dovey stuff. Everyone around her or people from home who knew her well asked what the heck she was doing because they knew she was single for so long and wondered why she she started writing all this stuff about love in vkontakte and posting pictures of us, she said she couldn't control it.  But she always knew about my life in america and that I had plans to try and rekindle my relationship with my American girl.  Believe me when I say, she knew what she was getting into, her head was telling her one thing but her heart said another.


Again, believe when is say, I did not need Lena at all . I arrived in the middle of august and survived there for over 3 months without a girl. I was set to go home in 2 weeks and my focus was that. Even in october my 18 year old girlfriends friend who tried hitting on me came back to the hospital for a week and gave me her number so we could get drunk but I never called her. If I needed a girl I had plenty of choices to fill the gap. The only fault I think I have is setting the goal. I always had a favorite girl who I'd try to make like me and once she did I would figure out a new one.  Lena was the goal for like a month. Honestly, I saw her as a challenge, she's not my type at all, I like pretty but really simple girls with a good heart. She's really pretty with an amazing body and I thought she'd be one of the girls with their nose really high in. Once I got to know her I saw what a great heart she had, i think that's what made us bond so well.


The meaningless things were things to help her get by or to lift her spirits. She would cry at times and ask why i was American or why she met me or why she started talking to me ( we were at the hospital for 2 months together before we started talking) I would say stuff like "if its in our fate we'll be together" those are the types of things I'm talking bout. Not once did I make her believe we'd have a future outside of those hospital walls.  I really did care for lena though, I know when I'm 50 years old I'll remember our time in that little Russian city, Winter 2011. I've only let 3 girls into my heart and she was one of them.

As for being mean to her. I wasn't an asshole. I'm a guy that needs lots of love, so sometimes I was selfish about things but she said she loved it and if I was nice or a pushover she wouldn't have loved me as much. She told she wants to treat her husband as if its her baby.

and with all the stupid statistics and percentages, for one its stupid and secondly it shows just how much time you have to argue on the internet. Thats all blah blah blah to me. I saw a lot there and enough to form an opinion.

[OlgaH]

Maybe you understand or maybe you don't but, many of the men that come to forums under the pretense of seeking information, aren't seeking information at all. They only seek validation to the myth and their own fantasies. Looking for reasons other than themselves for their own social ineptness. Blaming Western women and FSUM is usually the quickest validation they find. IMHO

Faux Pas, also add the agencies with their "RWs are marriage minded, faithful and so on". The agencies write it in general, they don't mention that there are different type RWs as in any other countries including the US.  And here the OP with his different experience, that btw not so different from many WM who come to Russia and from local RM as well  His mistake he wrote his notes in general, so the members assume he talks about all the RWs. Some dramatic minds added more drama around his posts 

[Konfushus]

To Mies:

My point was that when people generalize about Russian men cheating, it's not met with the same outrage expressed on this thread. That was my impression from reading through the archives here.

I did a search for "cheating" to confirm my recollections and one of the first quotes I see is from you.

"Plus - many divorces that you quote as statistics aren't initiated by women - they are initiated by men, and not because their wives were cheating, but because men had affairs and wanted to change the woman in the house."

That contradicts your own personal observations and what you are saying here.

You further say that of all the hundreds of people you met in your social circle up until age 20, you knew only 3 divorced couples in Ukraine. That just goes to show that everyone's experiences will differ and just because you grew up in a country it doesn't mean that your experiences are representative of the norm. Yours in fact, deviate drastically from the norm.

What percentage of people cheat? Nobody here can put a number on it. It's not something people broadcast to their friends and relatives and it's not something people freely admit to in any surveys.

What I do know is that in Russia (and in the US too) is that I've heard of enough cheating going on with the younger generations (I'm in my early 40s) that making men aware of it has merit.

To Faux Pas:

Yes, I clearly understand that most men don't come here actually seeking information. They just want someone to tell them what their doing is right on. Their friends and family aren't going to do it. 

[AmericanBoy]

To everyone else. I'm sorry, some of you guys have a lot more time your hands than I do and I can't respond to everything. I only replied to her because her perception of the events that took place are so far off they needed to be addressed. I will answer mendeleyev later thought because his inquiry seems to have gained interest amongst the users around here. ( I started answer last night and my computer updated and restarted and I lost it all!!!!)

I love life and there's no other way to put it. I'm really am happy boy and not a lot makes me mad or gets under my skin. Aside from some of the stuff discussed in this thread becoming a bit redundant, I don't mind anybody's opinion. It did get annoying when people like happyandcalm or mies will grab one small detail, or even twist my words in an attempt to make me look bad.

I have no issues communicating or meeting girls in real life and that followed me right into russia. I'm not and wasn't in the search for a bride. I came to this site to offer my opinion and I gave it. I think my views are valuable being that this wasn't some "make believe/forced love story" where I was trying to give a good impression to people and/or vise versa. The people I met and saw were not from a dating site/agency and were not seeking marriage. They were everyday people behaving as every day people with no agenda in mind. I will say this, if I was looking for a RW I would consider this thread very useful. I would absolute 100% take my own advice. I never ever ever had any trust issues before Russia, never cheated on a girl and never had been cheated on (as far as I know). I know there's a lot of cheating everywhere but what I saw there is crazy


I do have a lot to learn in life, I'm young. I live and act young and I'm proud of it. There will be a day and a time where I can be old and once that day hits it typically doesn't go away, so I'm very content with where I'm at.  Some of the judgments placed against me are humorous. I came to this site a week ago, I tried to give some advice and some of you  appreciated it, some didn't and that's ok. The reality is, not a person in here can judge me, nobody. We all have our faults! Maybe that's the fault of some of you guys, so quick to judge.  Nobody knows my life and I don't know any of yours.

To the people who doubted my story, nobody experience anywhere will be the same, different variables will equate to different results, just because it didn't happen to you, doesn't mean its not possible

To the people like happyandcalm or the other super negative posters . This isn't meant to be offensive but you're missing part of your leg or some of the guys don't have good looks, or the charisma or different qualities/characteristics so maybe dating life is a bit more challenging for them and it naturally brings out a negative side to them. I think these people love to point out the bad and enjoy judging people and talking badly about people like me. Maybe they feel I should appreciate what I have more, who knows...? This is all speculative, so maybe I'm wrong. but as I said earlier, I remember this stuff from high school it seems to follow you all throughout life...



I knew posting this I'd get some guff from russian girls. They hate to hear this stuff, I think Russian people are extremely prideful and don't appreciate anything negative being spoken about them. My goal wasn't to please anyone or make friends, my goal was to help the members of this forum who needed to know the side of russia that I saw.

To mies and happyandcalm, just so we don't keep going over the same stuff

Yes, I'm all those horrible things you guys think of me, can you we please move on from it?

[OlgaH]

Actually some RWs don't mind to have some Romantic feelings along with love dramas temporarily, using it as some kind of air freshener against everyday boredom and they will forget about it in the same very easy way as they let it be 

[Eduard]

I'm just not convinced that the percentage difference there/here would be statistically significant...

+1

[GQBlues]

Mendel's questioning was indeed direct.  Even though his requests were ignored, he did not give up on AB and even finds him "engaging" (as expressed in the posts you say are "still here for anyone to read").  Engaging is not an adjective used in condescension.   

Please recognize that the boinking crowd highly approved of AB.  Yet AB had little to say about the charm of Russia and its people.  I have read multiple accounts of men with seemingly the same attitude who  brought home a RW wife with the expectation that she would become totally Americanized and somehow forget what molded her.  I contend that when you marry a RW, you welcome Russia into your life and become inculcated by what is best about it. 
 
I understand that AB is not looking for a RW wife.  Yet he was involved in serious relationships and should be aware of the totality  of the women.

Well I did give you an option to deny it. I see you did so accordingly. Same reply as before applies here..

[milesaweek]

Actually some RWs don't mind to have some Romantic feelings along with love dramas temporarily, using it as some kind of air freshener against everyday boredom and they will forget about it in the same very easy way as they let it be 

This is poetry...is good use of language and captures a wonderful insight...thank you

[mies]

To Mies:

My point was that when people generalize about Russian men cheating, it's not met with the same outrage expressed on this thread. That was my impression from reading through the archives here.
I did a search for "cheating" to confirm my recollections and one of the first quotes I see is from you.

"Plus - many divorces that you quote as statistics aren't initiated by women - they are initiated by men, and not because their wives were cheating, but because men had affairs and wanted to change the woman in the house."

That contradicts your own personal observations and what you are saying here.

No it doesn't. 
statement A: There are very few divorces in my social circle back in Ukraine and it is quite vast. I have relatives and friends in Russia too. No divorces there either. No cheating. True - no obvious cheating. But it's a small world, if there were any cheating sooner or later it would be revealed. But it hasn't.
 
statement B: I know that divorces exist. In Russia or Ukraine women are very unprotected socially. When they divorce, it is really hard for them to get alimony on children, it is hard for them to get jobs, and so on. Staying in marriage provides security. Plus there is a burden of social pressure on a woman who filed for divorce or was divorced by a man. The normal view it's her personal failure. It's kind of a common knowledge, even though divorces aren't that common. Because of this, it is also sort of a common knowledge that divorces are more commonly initiated by men rather than women. I never said that many R/U men cheat. If I did, please find the quote and I will correct myself. 

I do not see why you think that strong stable good families are abnormal. Is it so hard to believe in it?

[mies]

I only replied to her because her perception of the events that took place are so far off they needed to be addressed.

I know I am right, and you know it too. You cannot comprehend how wrong is what you were doing because you do not have some important "elements" in your personality, but you know what I say is true.

You just admitted you were trying to "win" this girl. When she fell for you - you are trying to prove that "it just happened and you didn't need it." and so on and so forth. Then you are saying you weren't trying to take advantage of her.

Also, you can use "quote" option instead of putting all your text in bold. I have 20/20 sight, and generally can read regular text just as well as bold, or even better.

 

[AmericanBoy]

I know I am annoying, and you know it too.

fixed that for you

[LiveFromUkraine]

No it doesn't. 
statement A: There are very few divorces in my social circle back in Ukraine and it is quite vast. I have relatives and friends in Russia too. No divorces there either. No cheating. True - no obvious cheating. But it's a small world, if there were any cheating sooner or later it would be revealed. But it hasn't.
 
statement B: I know that divorces exist. In Russia or Ukraine women are very unprotected socially. When they divorce, it is really hard for them to get alimony on children, it is hard for them to get jobs, and so on. Staying in marriage provides security. Plus there is a burden of social pressure on a woman who filed for divorce or was divorced by a man. The normal view it's her personal failure. It's kind of a common knowledge, even though divorces aren't that common. Because of this, it is also sort of a common knowledge that divorces are more commonly initiated by men rather than women. I never said that many R/U men cheat. If I did, please find the quote and I will correct myself. 

I do not see why you think that strong stable good families are abnormal. Is it so hard to believe in it?

Mies, are you saying that divorce isn't common in Ukraine? 

[Konfushus]

To Mies:

You said Urkainian men cheat in what I already quoted

"many divorces that you quote as statistics aren't initiated by women - they are initiated by men, and not because their wives were cheating, but because men had affairs"

Divorce is common in Ukraine (as most everwhere) and many divorces occur because men are having affairs.

It was in the context of you saying that Ukrainian women often put up with the bad behavior of their husbands (which includes cheating, right?)

I do not see why you think that strong stable good families are abnormal. Is it so hard to believe in it?

I didn't say anything like that.

[OlgaH]

"Plus - many divorces that you quote as statistics aren't initiated by women - they are initiated by men, and not because their wives were cheating, but because men had affairs and wanted to change the woman in the house."

According to Russian statistics from 60% to 80% initiators of divorce are women in Russia.

[mies]

Mies, are you saying that divorce isn't common in Ukraine?

Divorce in Ukraine isn't evenly distributed.

Here is official statistics from here:http://ukrstat.org/uk/operativ/operativ2007/ds/nas_rik/nas_u/nas_rik_u.html

per 1000 of population: marriages / divorces in Ukraine:
1990  9.3/3.7
2010  6.7/2.7

and from here: http://www.gks.ru/wps/wcm/connect/rosstat/rosstatsite/main/population/demography/#
per 1000 of population: marriages / divorces in Russia:
1990  8.9/3.8
2010  8.5/4.5

but here is something quite interesting - marriages / divorces in Russia during USSR times:
1950  12.0/0.5
1960  12.5/1.5
1970  10.1/3.0
1980  10.6/4.2 - the number of divorces changed very little since 1980, only the number of marriages declined
Probably after the WWII men were in shortage
 

[mies]

According to Russian statistics from 60% to 80% initiators of divorce are women in Russia.

Then my hypothesis would be wrong
Could you please cite your source?

 I cannot find any official statistics about shares of females and males filing for divorce. Until then, my hypothesis isn't refuted