Why would russian women want an average american man?

[calmissile]

Turbo,

Not quite correct.   Some of us old average farts are still willing to accept the additional costs and headaches to seek a cute average weight FSU women rather than accept a grossly overweight average american women.

The tradeoff's are obvious..... what is the lifetime value of a nice looking women that takes her appearance seriously, and is willing to commit to a marriage of "until death do us part"!

[mies]

There are too many contradictions in the foreign bride industry. could anyone sort this out and debate me?


1. If its true that russian women want "american men," why is it that i cant just get off a plane on russian territory and hand pick any random russian woman right on the airport and marry her in a few hours?

2. If it's true that russian women don't want russian men, why is it that i cant get off a plane on russian land and select any random russian woman to marry?

3. If it's true that russian women don't want russian men, why is it that the foreign bride industry only consists of less than 1% of the female russian population? what makes this tiny percentage of women so special?





I wish I had 2k laying around and 2 weeks off to fully investigate this on a trip to russia.

The answer to your first and second questions is in the last paragraph of your post. (please, see underlined)

[Chicagoguy]

I thought that the USA only had two weeks' annual holiday?  Or did she only go for two days at a time? 

Should have added that she lives in Moscow and is 29 yyears old. I am at a loss to understand so many days off.

[chivo]

Typically you get 28 vacation days per year in Russia. Factor that in with 10 days or so at the start of the year for New Year, and about 10 other holidays and you start to understand where all this time comes from.
 
We just had 3 days off for Labor Day and we'll get another 4 days for Victory Day this coming weekend (both including the weekend). You could take 6 days of your vacation in between these two holidays and stretch it to two weeks without sacrificing any more time.
 
I used to think America had a lot of holidays, well, until I moved here. 

[chivo]

American's aren't The American government isn't especially popular right now in Russia.

I really see no change with the attitude from the people about Americans. I still get more than favorable responses from all I meet except the "old" soviets. And it's been like that since I've been here.
 
The government, yes, but hell you could include half the world in that group. And most of the negativity is just election year rhetoric.
 
Similar to Twit Romney calling Russia America's number one threat in the world. 

[Misha]

Add this fact: Most women in first world countries, those with the maximum amount of choice, do not NEED or WANT a man in the same way as women from first world countries did 50 years ago, and the way women from second and third world countries do today.  Any woman can earn a living (resources)  Any woman can call 911 (security).  That sort of pulls the rug out of the value proposition of "being a man".

As most women are not lesbians, and most women still want to find love, most women still are looking for men and Cosmo is still publishing... Somehow, men are still needed, but young single women generally have the option of finding young single men and they generally marry them

[Eduard]

Of course the above average guys have no interest in RW because...

I would disagree, Ray. Worked with several way above average guys who were very interested in RW women!

[CDW]

American's aren't especially popular right now in Russia. There are usually two sources who say differently:

1- Agencies trying to sell you a dream.

2- Misinformed Americans who naively think that Russians want to come to the USA for a visa/passport.

It is nice that you have 2K for spending money for a couple weeks but remember that you'll need a place to stay and hotels or apartments aren't cheap. Also, you'll need a plane ticket and that will be another 1k.

Think 4k for 2 weeks if you are on a first time visit. Add another 1k for emergencies.

Any real women would try to save you costs and to invite you to her home - unless there aren't any space available.

My 1st 3 trips to Belarus, these ladies invite me to her home (her parents home).  The relationships did not work out for some reasons but they invited me. 

My 3rd trip to Tashkent, she wanted to invite me to her home, but she only had 1 room, sharing with her mother and her brother.   That's understandable. 

Many Men would probably want to stay at hotels, apartments, because some of them expect "sex" while others want "luxury".   

[mies]

Any real women would try to save you costs and to invite you to her home - unless there aren't any space available.

Actually, you are wrong. Most of women in Ukraine/Russia/Belarus would not invite a complete stranger whom they know only virtually, to stay in their home. I certainly would not, and if I did - my parents would probably disown me. It is risky, and also against cultural norms regulating relationship between males and females in Slavic countries. A stranger who stayed at home is automatically considered woman's fiance. If the relationship does not work out and man leaves - this becomes a disgrace for a woman and her family. I suppose, you never bothered to inquire about the implications and negative consequences for female(s) of your "stay at her home" strategy.

Women who do invite "foreign pen-pals" to stay in their apartment are either certain that this man will become their husband (and you cannot guarantee that, so you take the benefit without paying the price, so to speak), or desperate to the point that they do not care about their reputation, or in general do not care about their reputation, or are "very modern" and defy cultural norms/do not care about their reputation. You are traveling not for her. Overall, I think you are traveling for your own benefit, not "to make this woman happy." The decision is fully yours, and you should be able to cover the costs.  These women aren't running charity hotels. They are looking for a husband. Why should they be saving your money at the expense of their reputation?

[CDW]

Actually, you are wrong. Most of women in Ukraine/Russia/Belarus would not invite a complete stranger whom they know only virtually,

Why would you go there if you feel you are a completely stranger?  You have "trust" issue that need sorting out

[CDW]

These women aren't running charity hotels. They are looking for a husband. Why should they be saving your money at the expense of their reputation?

They are looking for a husband, and do not want to make him feel welcome, so why are they looking for a husband for ??  And YES, they SHOULD care about husband's expenses - not wasting them, regardless how rich their future husbands are!!  They should show respect from visitors!!!

You are missing the point, these men came all the way from Mars, and you, women do not want to shoe respect, or at least making them feel welcome.   

"Women aren't running charitable hotels" - you must remember that these men do have feelings, and not expecting to treat them like completely stranger.   I am not talking about knowing them for 2 minutes

[Boethius]

Lots of men go to the FSUW with less than honourable intentions.  Should a woman invite every strange man she has encountered online to stay in her home?   What if she takes one look at him at the airport and decides he is not the one?   Or they don't have personal chemistry?
 
How would you look at a woman if you knew she invited every Tom, Dick and Harry who was a potential foreign suitor, to stay in her home?  Would you view her differently if you found out you were, say, the twentieth foreign man to stay in her home?
 
Most FSU individuals live in close quarters.  In many parts of the FSU, her reputation will be in ruins after the cheapskate leaves.

Nobody forces a man to go visit a woman in any FSU republic.  If you are too cheap to pay for an apartment, save your money and find a woman closer to home.
 
 

[mies]

They are looking for a husband, and do not want to make him feel welcome, so why are they looking for a husband for ??  And YES, they SHOULD care about husband's expenses - not wasting them, regardless how rich their future husbands are!!  They should show respect from visitors!!!

You are missing the point, these men came all the way from Mars, and you, women do not want to shoe respect, or at least making them feel welcome.   

"Women aren't running charitable hotels" - you must remember that these men do have feelings, and not expecting to treat them like completely stranger.   I am not talking about knowing them for 2 minutes

yes, they should care about husband's expenses. There is an american saying, something along the lines "do you see a ring on this finger?" 

You mentioned several women who offered you their home. Do you intend to marry all of them? Is polygamy officially allowed in USA?

I didn't know that not offering a home means not respecting visitors. How many visitors whom you never met in person you have invited to stay in your home?

Definition of "respect" - "[dot]Admire (someone or something) deeply, as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements[/dot]."
hmm.. how does it fits into the picture of hypothetical offering a pen-pal to stay in my home?

[OlgaH]

Any real women would try to save you costs and to invite you to her home - unless there aren't any space available.

Only if there are mutual feelings and commitment between a woman and a man 

[Gator]

Why would you go there if you feel you are a completely stranger?  You have "trust" issue that need sorting out

Listen to Mies and the others.  IMO only after an exclusive, continuing relationship is established would a FSUW invite a man to stay at her flat.

 
As a man I assure you that not one RW ever invited me to stay at her flat for our first meeting.  I never asked and I would have been shocked if one did.
 
Staying at a woman's flat is something special.   If she likes you after a  meeting, many RW will invite you to meet her family.  This probably would be at her flat, and she may even cook something delicious for you.  After dinner, you still return to you own flat.   

Regarding intimacy, a FSUW will feel more comfortable at your rented flat away from her family and neighbors.  You do want her to feel comfortable, yes? Add children to the equation and your concept becomes absurd.

[IAmZon]

As most women are not lesbians, and most women still want to find love, most women still are looking for men and Cosmo is still publishing... Somehow, men are still needed, but young single women generally have the option of finding young single men and they generally marry them

You miss the point, and seem to apologize ...


Very eligible young single women in first world countries (do you know them?) where "boys" like a new pair of jeans, or a designer hand bag.

[Misha]

You miss the point, and seem to apologize ...


Very eligible young single women in first world countries (do you know them?) where "boys" like a new pair of jeans, or a designer hand bag.

The point that you are missing is that you should not be generalizing. I have the pleasure working with many young men and women in their twenties, and I can attest to the fact that most are looking for love, many get married in their twenties, and then have children. It is not as grim as you portray it.

[Chicagoguy]

I discovered another problem with women inviting you to their flat to stay. You must pass the babushka inspectors on the benches by front door     And they will talk.

[Daveman]

Any real women would try to save you costs and to invite you to her home - unless there aren't any space available.

My 1st 3 trips to Belarus, these ladies invite me to her home (her parents home).  The relationships did not work out for some reasons but they invited me. 

My 3rd trip to Tashkent, she wanted to invite me to her home, but she only had 1 room, sharing with her mother and her brother.   That's understandable. 

Many Men would probably want to stay at hotels, apartments, because some of them expect "sex" while others want "luxury".

I rented an apartment in a neutral location on every visit so as to not be a burden to my lady, to respect her privacy, to give us both freedom for thought about *us* without the constraints of her being responsible for the roof over my head. 


The first time I actually stayed in my wife's apartment? I just gave you the answer.. when she became my wife...


Of course she looked out for me in just about every way, saving me money, blah blah.. but one of the first rules for a gentleman is to never impose on anyone... so, even after the first visit when she offered for me to stay in her place, I politely declined and offered for her to stay with me in my apartment.


Freedom, in all sorts of manifestations and for various reasons, is a very healthy thing when developing a relationship...

[pitbull]

Start out with this fact:  The value of being a man in first world countries (USA, UK, Norway, etc..) is lower - FAR LOWER - than the value of being a man in Colombia, Ukraine, Slovakia, Romania, etc...

Add this fact: Most women in first world countries, those with the maximum amount of choice, do not NEED or WANT a man in the same way as women from first world countries did 50 years ago, and the way women from second and third world countries do today.  Any woman can earn a living (resources)  Any woman can call 911 (security).  That sort of pulls the rug out of the value proposition of "being a man".

So, when you say "Average Man," you are already buying into the image of the 1st world value of being a man.   

Take for example the men in Colombia, or here in Ukraine.   Most men in these countries are ugly as $hit, to be honest.   Another example is manners.   The men in Colombia, 99% of the time, are cheaters and few have the potential to be successful in this life.  It is not uncommon to see a man hit a girl.  (I even saw a man slap his girlfriend in Bratislava, and nobody said a thing)  I do not know enough about Ukrainian men, but it does not appear that they put women on a pedestal either.

What is an "Above Average / Good Man" to THESE women? 

But that only identifies the real problem!  NOW THEN, to take one Perspective/Community Standard - Colombia / Ukraine - and mix it with a different Perspective/ Community Standard - USA - THAT is where the trouble starts, perhaps irreconcilably so in most cases.

So, IF YOU ARE A MAN that is going to travel, meet and marry a woman with less than 90 days real face time with her; and then, ship her to the USA - and IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN A LOW RISK WORLD -  you probably want to stay close to the perspective and community standards of the USA.  You probably should find a woman 3 - 5 years younger / older, and in your own league, more or less (THIS IS LESS AN ISSUE WITH WOMEN OVER 35 IMO). Which means that most men should not marry a beauty queen.  But, it is possible to find a good, attractive women, with strong traditional values - and there is MUCH to be said for that!  Or, there is Match.com LOL

===  When I first moved to Colombia, I met an American who had been travelling there for 11 years.  He was married to THREE Colombianas in 10 years (one ended up being a model for Playboy).  This man is 2 years older than myself, so we are talking about a "normal" guy who is in his 40's with only an  above average / mediocre American job, dating and marrying Playboy models.  Those relationships were real.  The women have loved him, and he respected and cared for them too.  (These were not scam marriages for the purpose of green card.)    The marital problems did not begin until the women moved to the USA; and even then, the problems took years to grow.  BUT THEY GREW.   Nowadays, he prefers to live in Colombia, and visit the USA. ===

So, what's your point?
Would you prefer that the US "value of being a man" were still like 50-60 yrars ago or as it is in the 3rd world countries?
Or do you prefer it the "current 1st world country" way?

[Doll]

They are looking for a husband, and do not want to make him feel welcome, so why are they looking for a husband for ??  And YES, they SHOULD care about husband's expenses - not wasting them, regardless how rich their future husbands are!!  They should show respect from visitors!!!

You are missing the point, these men came all the way from Mars, and you, women do not want to shoe respect, or at least making them feel welcome.   

"Women aren't running charitable hotels" - you must remember that these men do have feelings, and not expecting to treat them like completely stranger.   I am not talking about knowing them for 2 minutes

I will care about my husband's expences if he IS my husband, not when I date (more than one man). I actually don't care if somebody "came all the way from Mars"- it is their choice.

[Doll]

So, what's your point?
Would you prefer that the US "value of being a man" were still like 50-60 yrars ago or as it is in the 3rd world countries?
Or do you prefer it the "current 1st world country" way?

Seems like he does not like the "current way" when any woman can earn enough money and call 911
(It only takes RW 2-3 years to be able to do the same, so don't get excited   )))

[Doll]

Why would you go there if you feel you are a completely stranger?  You have "trust" issue that need sorting out

I too have issues with understanding "trust" 
So, let's assume you have a daughter who is dating. Are you ok if she invites each and every date to stay at her house?
If yes , then let's define "trust".

[Doll]

.

.   ===  When I first moved to Colombia, I met an American who had been travelling there for 11 years.  He was married to THREE Colombianas in 10 years (one ended up being a model for Playboy).  This man is 2 years older than myself, so we are talking about a "normal" guy who is in his 40's with only an  above average / mediocre American job, dating and marrying Playboy models.  Those relationships were real.  The women have loved him, and he respected and cared for them too.  (These were not scam marriages for the purpose of green card.)    The marital problems did not begin until the women moved to the USA; and even then, the problems took years to grow.  BUT THEY GREW.   Nowadays, he prefers to live in Colombia, and visit the USA. ===

Was it  a good example or a bad one?
3 marriages over 10 years in my understanding is not too good.
Problems grew after they moved to the USA? How?

[Anotherkiwi]

Listen to Mies and the others.  IMO only after an exclusive, continuing relationship is established would a FSUW invite a man to stay at her flat.

 
As a man I assure you that not one RW ever invited me to stay at her flat for our first meeting.  I never asked and I would have been shocked if one did.
 
Staying at a woman's flat is something special.   If she likes you after a  meeting, many RW will invite you to meet her family.  This probably would be at her flat, and she may even cook something delicious for you.  After dinner, you still return to you own flat.   

Regarding intimacy, a FSUW will feel more comfortable at your rented flat away from her family and neighbors.  You do want her to feel comfortable, yes? Add children to the equation and your concept becomes absurd.

Totally agree.  Of course my actual time in the FSU is extremely limited, but the woman I went to meet on my first trip arranged an apartment for me - it was owned by a friend who had moved to Italy, and was in a block across the courtyard from her own block.  I ate breakfast in my apartment, then we would go out together for the day, but we ate nearly all evening meals in her flat (usually with her mother and teenage daughter, both of whom were really nice).
 
When we wanted to spend time alone together we went to my apartment.  Even though we had no romantic chemistry we still enjoyed spending time together as friends.
 
It would have been incredibly awkward living in her apartment, seeing that the romance flew into the wild blue yonder as soon as we met!