US Citizen traveling to Ukraine using Ukraine passport.

[Faux Pas]

FP, I totally forgot the permanent resident (GC) procedure. Once a Russian national have this document/card the Russian national doesn't need a visa to enter the US. They will definitely need the entry and exit stamps. It happen to us before UA changed their visa conditions for US citizens and the wife becoming a naturalized US citizen.
 
Regarding UA dual citizenship, BC provided the link and it is clear that it will affect the person traveling to UA with a UA passport; not the US. Not sure about Australian or UK or Martian.

Using 2 passports seems to me that it would be a problem but, nothing that I have any personal experience with. The US passport control usually just scans the pp and all the entry/exit info I believe is on his screen. It would seem when there is no previous exit it would raise them a flag

[Ranetka]

Using 2 passports seems to me that it would be a problem but, nothing that I have any personal experience with. The US passport control usually just scans the pp and all the entry/exit info I believe is on his screen. It would seem when there is no previous exit it would raise them a flag

 
 
So you say " I left the country using another country passport"...It's not a crime having two passports  . Passort control  officers around the world are used to it, honest.

[GQBlues]

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html


"....Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship. Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship...."



The wrinkle in this is, for example, my wife's name in her Russian passport is 'different' than in her US passport. Traveling to Russia using her passport, she needs to purchase the airline ticket using her native name, thus when the check-in person swipes her passport through it alerts the 'system' that Ms. Sexy Russianova is 'leaving' the US, and not Mrs. GQBlues, as is shown on her US passport. So when she comes back, how do they ever know Mrs. GQBlues was 'gone' to begin with to allow her to enter?

(It could be that the traveling person gives BOTH passports at the check-in counter?)


  Am I missing something here, or is the system so lax that trying to get an answer to this otherwise very simple question is a waste of time?

[Ranetka]

Sorry I was wrong in my previous answer. The scheme works like this:
 
Leaving UK:
 
1. Show Russian passport to air travel company
2. Show British passport on passport control.
 
Entering Russia
 
3. Show Russian passport on passport control.
 
Leavng Russia
 
4. Show British passport to air carrier
5. Show Russian passport on passport control (if questioning where i travel and wher s the entry visa the answer is always "I have a British passport as well")
 
Entering UK
 
6. Show British passport.
 
The point is you need to use the same passport in same countries.
 
I was asked once leaving Russia how did I get into it, I was travelling
UK-Ukraine-Russia-Ukraine-UK, I had only British passport and internal Russian ID (internal passport) which is suitable for travel between Russia and Ukraine. So they must have a database I guess. So I just answered that I traveled from third country using third county passport. I wrote about it before.
 
If they surname is different. Will have to show air carrier the same document - I suggest Russian passport as a right to enter Russia plus green card with Russian surname as a right to enter US?
 
Basically each country needs to see their passport and air currier need to see proof that you will be allowed into each country (I am not 100% sure but I think they will be liable to bring you back otherwise)
 

[Ranetka]

Sorry my #english is escaping me tonight.
 
Air currier=check in.
 
 

[GQBlues]

...If they surname is different. Will have to show air carrier the same document - I suggest Russian passport as a right to enter Russia plus green card with Russian surname as a right to enter US?
 
Basically each country needs to see their passport and air currier need to see proof that you will be allowed into each country (I am not 100% sure but I think they will be liable to bring you back otherwise)

My suspicion is you're right and it's just as simple as having both passports shown upon US (UK) departures. Although this segment is mostly 'left off' during conversations we've had here recently instead saying the only time they use the US passport is when they return after their travel/s.

As for US permanent residents, it is fairly easy since they only use one passport and an accompanying permanent resident card (GC) and marriage document (if surname is different).

[BC]

Basically each country needs to see their passport and air currier need to see proof that you will be allowed into each country (I am not 100% sure but I think they will be liable to bring you back otherwise)

Ranetka,

Think you are correct.

One notable difference though... Last time we visited the US there was no 'exit' passport control per se.... the immigration cards were handed over during airline checkin.  That's not the case when exiting / entering UK / EU.

[SMS60]

My guess is eventually or the first time you enter US passport control you will be pulled off to one of the side rooms and interrogated if you are using a passport that does not have a record of entering another country.

After 9-11 there is no doubt all passports are tracked electronically by computer. Do you not see them enter your information into a computer when you arrive at any countries passport control. Stamps are just a back up or for quick checks.

They know what country you took a dump in!! Don't think they don't.

No one will answer the question about when you re-enter US and they scan your passport it will show you have been no where if you used another countries passport to enter that country.

I think you will take a huge chance of raising red flag in computer. What will you tell them when they ask where have you been and for how long? You tell them the truth but they do not have record of this with the passport you are using. Off to the interrogation room.

[Anotherkiwi]

So you say " I left the country using another country passport"...It's not a crime having two passports  . Passport control officers around the world are used to it, honest.

Ranetka,

Think you are correct.

One notable difference though... Last time we visited the US there was no 'exit' passport control per se.... the immigration cards were handed over during airline checkin.  That's not the case when exiting / entering UK / EU.

In New Zealand you fill out the emigration card before checking in - the check-in person makes sure that it has been completed correctly (in the sense of the right boxes being ticked or filled out) and gives it back with your passport to be handed over as you go through Customs.
 
In my case I have a British passport as well as a New Zealand one, specifically so that I could go visa-less to Ukraine (New Zealanders and Australians need visas).  I used my New Zealand passport as far as Moscow, because it contained my Russian visa, and I used my British passport to enter and exit Ukraine.  I did not show it in Moscow or anywhere else, and did not get any questions in either Russia or Ukraine about lack of entry or exit stamps.

[Wayne]

USA passport and many other countries have a scan code built in. When you go through passport control they swipe this into the computer.
 
If you have any issues, there can be a notation attached to your passport code which gives a notification to the passport control officer. Since the soccer games are taking place in Ukraine, they are checking things more closely.
 
The officer can find out on the computer every county you have been in, when, who you travel with, etc. If there is a warant, suppoena, unpaid taxes, unpaid child support, court order, or other problem, you can get pulled aside at the airport.

[Faux Pas]

USA passport and many other countries have a scan code built in. When you go through passport control they swipe this into the computer.
 
If you have any issues, there can be a notation attached to your passport code which gives a notification to the passport control officer. Since the soccer games are taking place in Ukraine, they are checking things more closely.
 
The officer can find out on the computer every county you have been in, when, who you travel with, etc. If there is a warant, suppoena, unpaid taxes, unpaid child support, court order, or other problem, you can get pulled aside at the airport.

If one checks out with a different passport than they checked in with, customs can't tell much of anything would be my guess. I imagine they are not to thrilled with that prospect

[HiTech]

Did research.

First PMZ stamp, went threw that episode when my wife thought she had lost her international passport. We tried to replace it at the Ukraine Embasy in the US. They would not with out the stamp. They would issue a paper for a single entry into Ukraine to get the required stamp and new passport.

We later found the passport ,traveled to Ukraine to get the stamp but never 100% completed it, on the next  trip we renewed her passport with out the stamp.

Ukraine law,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_citizenship

http://www.mfa.gov.ua/mfa/en/publication/content/719.htm

See Article 19.

Hence per Ukraine law my wife is no longer a Ukraine citizen, and hence traveling on or entering Ukraine with that passport would be fraud.


Alyona will simply travel only on the US passport and forget about Ukraine citizenship.

HiTech

[tfcrew]

According to [Art. 19 c]  ....
 A citizen of Ukraine automatically obtains the citizenship of another state due to marriage to a foreigner;
http://www.mfa.gov.ua/mfa/en/publication/content/719.htm

From the Wiki page..

there are citizens of Ukraine who hold dual citizenship.^[6][7] Various estimates put the number of Ukrainians with more than one passport from 300,000 to a few million.^[8] Within Ukrainian boundaries Ukrainian citizens who also hold multiple citizenships are considered to be solely Ukrainian citizens.^[9]

[Ranetka]

Did research.

First PMZ stamp, went threw that episode when my wife thought she had lost her international passport. We tried to replace it at the Ukraine Embasy in the US. They would not with out the stamp. They would issue a paper for a single entry into Ukraine to get the required stamp and new passport.

We later found the passport ,traveled to Ukraine to get the stamp but never 100% completed it, on the next  trip we renewed her passport with out the stamp.

Ukraine law,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_citizenship

http://www.mfa.gov.ua/mfa/en/publication/content/719.htm

See Article 19.

Hence per Ukraine law my wife is no longer a Ukraine citizen, and hence traveling on or entering Ukraine with that passport would be fraud.


Alyona will simply travel only on the US passport and forget about Ukraine citizenship.

HiTech

I think the Article 20 says that until the officials declared loss of citizenship the person is still in fact a citizen.


A citizen of Ukraine who has submitted an application to renounce his/her citizenship of Ukraine or in respect to which the loss of citizenship is being registered enjoys all rights and bears all obligations of the citizen of [/size]Ukraine until entry into force of the decision of termination of his/her citizenship of Ukraine.(In respect to which the loss of citizenhip is being registered   -  is from Article 19 covering the loss of citizensip  due to accepting other states citizenship.)

[Muzh]

Hence per Ukraine law my wife is no longer a Ukraine citizen, and hence traveling on or entering Ukraine with that passport would be fraud.


Alyona will simply travel only on the US passport and forget about Ukraine citizenship.

HiTech

HiTech, I don't think this is completely accurate. My wife tried to obtain the damn PMZ stamp and eventually told them to shove it. The reason was to let the government know she was living outside UA since she co-owns the house in Kharkiv with her sister. However, they literally made it impossible for her to get one. Me thinks they do that on purpose so the can still collect taxes on a person that doesn't live there. Someone has to pay.
 
Her passport expired some time ago and she thought of renewing it so her sister did the legwork and said she could have a new passport IF she desired after talking to the necessary officials.
 
As far as the UA government is concerned, my wife is still a UA citizen.

[JayH]

Did research.
Ukraine law,
See Article 19.
Hence per Ukraine law my wife is no longer a Ukraine citizen, and hence traveling on or entering Ukraine with that passport would be fraud.
Alyona will simply travel only on the US passport and forget about Ukraine citizenship.
HiTech

That is the smart decision-- and as I originally posted!
The discussion of eligibility is confusing-- as much Ukraine law seems to contradict itself-- it seems to me that the clause that states the acceptance of another countries citizenship makes one unable to hold Ukraine citizenship overides  all the lesser statements.

[BC]

That is the smart decision-- and as I originally posted!
The discussion of eligibility is confusing-- as much Ukraine law seems to contradict itself-- it seems to me that the clause that states the acceptance of another countries citizenship makes one unable to hold Ukraine citizenship overides  all the lesser statements.

But... don't forget...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_citizenship

The decision on involuntary termination of Ukrainian citizenship must be taken by the President of Ukraine.[4]

So it seems the issue is more like a 'don't ask don't tell' thing...

As far as this layman can determine a UA citizen that receives citizenship from another country should not have that much of a problem unless he/she receives a letter from the current UA president.

Catch 22

[Erwin]

Leaving the U.S.:
 
 * Show your valid Russian international passport and U.S. passport or greencard to airline company at check-in. If your last name that appears on your Russian international passport is not the same as your last name that appears on your U.S. passport or greencard, show airline company the original certified copy of your marriage certificate/license.
* Show your boarding pass and your valid Russian international passport to TSA.
 
Entering Russian Federation:
 
* Show your valid Russian international passport to the officer at the passport control. He/she will stamp your passport.
 
Leaving Russian Federation:
 
* Show your valid Russian international passport and U.S. passport or greencard to airline company at check-in. If your last name that appears on your Russian international passport is not the same as your last name that appears on your U.S. passport or greencard, show airline company the original certified copy of your marriage certificate/license.
* Show your valid Russian international passport, your boarding pass and your valid U.S. passport or greencard - and if asked, the original certified copy of your marriage certificate/license with the original certified copy of the Russian translation of this document - to the officer at passport control. He/she will stamp your Russian international passport and give everything back to you.
 
Entering the U.S.:
 
 * Show your valid U.S. passport - or, if you have a U.S. greencard, show your valid Russian international passport and your greencard - to the officer at ICE/passport control. He/she will stamp your passport and give everything back to you.

Hope this helps.

Best,

E