In Kharkov now, and feel like i am in the process of being scammed :(

[Gator]

exactly. But why it has to be a cheap date? Just because it is Ukraine?

FSUW are well schooled on how to behave when meeting a foreign man.  Ten years ago one RW told me how she read on the Internet that FSUW should say "Thank you" frequently, to smile at his bad jokes, to expect that he may say something unbecoming about her city, to not ask for a gift, to not select the most expensive item on the menu, etc.  That was ten years ago.

My problem with these guidelines is I enjoy fine food, and dinner to me is a celebration, not a timeout to curb one's hunger.   And I had trouble convincing some FSUW to order more than a salad.
 
Only a couple of women ever asked me for a gift during the initial meeting stage.  Before they asked, it was apparent that our mutual interest was low.  Neither woman impressed me as intelligent.  So just because a woman does not ask for perfume does not mean necessarily that she is sincere.  A clever, insincere woman may have her sights on a big gift.
 
A driver once told me about an instance in which he drove a man to the Moscow airport to meet a RW for the first time.  It was late autumn and she got off the plane with no coat.  She was shivering.  So the first stop was to go to a coat store.  You know that she planned exactly that.
 
If I had spent a few days with a woman and were interested in her, I would always offer to buy her a present to remember me.  This happened a few times, and no woman was ever shy about suggesting what she really wanted.  And what they really wanted was never cheap.  I happily bought items such as a fine leather jacket , a leather handbag large enough to hold her medical instruments, a new top-of-the-line telephone, etc.  I felt good in giving them something she wanted and needed.
 
 
 

If he tries to "get a better deal on a brand name product" he's just like those girls who buy "Chanel" handbags on e-Bay for a fraction of price and then complain they were ripped off for a counterfeit product.

There is no reason to be cheap after paying $1000 for a flight, unless one's true nature is cheap.  If a man is tight with his money, it is best that FSUW learn this early.
 

[Muzh]

FSUW are well schooled on how to behave when meeting a foreign man.  Ten years ago one RW told me how she read on the Internet that FSUW should say "Thank you" frequently, to smile at his bad jokes, to expect that he may say something unbecoming about her city, to not ask for a gift, to not select the most expensive item on the menu, etc.  That was ten years ago.

I will assume you are referring to the stable of girls at the agencies.

Because I disagree if you are referring to regular girls.

[Shadow]

I will assume you are referring to the stable of girls at the agencies.

Because I disagree if you are referring to regular girls.

Actually MrsShadow read it as well. And she was not an agency girl in the common sense of the word.

[Gator]

I will assume you are referring to the stable of girls at the agencies.

Because I disagree if you are referring to regular girls.

Interesting.  Two comments.
 
1.  My reaction to your assumption about agency women.

I did not have the impression that meeting guidelines such as say "Thank You" were written by an agency but were discussion topics in a Russian language forum.   
 
Nevertheless, 95% of the RW I met were with agencies and sites such as FreePersonals.   BTW, the two women who asked me for a gift were indeed listed with a MOB agency.   Thus....
 
My comment was to suggest that sincere women do not ask for gifts.  And those who do are especially insincere because they have been told it is a "no no" when meeting Western men.

 
2.  My reaction to your term "regular girls"
 
Should I infer that "regular girls" do ask for gifts and do not say "Thank You."    Of course not.
 
 
Is there a difference between regular girls and sincere women listed with agencies?   I assert that most RW would not ask for a gift even if they had not read the guidelines.   For sure when I laid an egg with a bad joke, I got frowns, so maybe they were regular girls.   And I endeavored to avoid negative comments about Russian life, yet when I assumed one woman did not know how to drive, she showed me her license and then let me have it.  Regular girl?
 
 
 

[DKMM]

I hope the OP comes back with some updates of how his trip went?  Maybe so good he doesn't have time to return.

[mies]

FSUW are well schooled on how to behave when meeting a foreign man.  Ten years ago one RW told me how she read on the Internet that FSUW should say "Thank you" frequently, to smile at his bad jokes, to expect that he may say something unbecoming about her city, to not ask for a gift, to not select the most expensive item on the menu, etc.  That was ten years ago.

These are all elements of common etiquette for RWs - with WMs or with RMs. This is what's considered normal. RWs aren't very assertive, comparing them to AWs. Their behavior gets interpreted by foreigners as "mysterious" or "shy" but this is just part of culture. They aren't "trained" these skills or habits to deal with Western men. This is the way women back there normally behave.

Unlike the WMs, the RMs I've met are usually much more generous at the initial stages of dating, and much more sincere in their generosity. A student with part-time job may spend same amount on a date as some Americans do, and he'd never complain that his date is expensive. Some students get part-time jobs exactly for the purpose to invite a girl for a date or to give her presents.

[Patagonie]

You are right. This is classic. It is a professional dater who works with an interpreter mate together. She is not interested in you or other men (usually is married or has a boyfriend) but this is her job. She makes a living this way!
To avoid this, just avoid commercial agencies where you have to pay for correspondence. Communicate with women directly in free dating web sites for locals (however, you will have to find a good translator because if you use the Google tool your success rate will not be great, most women don’t take the mess that comes out of Google seriously; to communicate with good results you need good human translation). Have direct contact information of women in advance! Arrange your own intepreter. If the woman says that she has her own 'interpteter she is comfortable with' - RUN. Do it your way, not hers.
Sorry if it sounds like self-promotion as I am a translator and interpreter - but this is life. And you don't have to hire me.

No i don't think that you are self promoting. You are right it is a professional dater who works with an interpreter mate. It is a well know game played in Harkow.
But i don't agree with your advice of "avoid commercial agencies where you have to pay for correspondance". There are some valuable agencies and they also need to earn money because they cannot translate letters for free. Of course most (more than 90 % of agencies are between scammers and not very professional) have to be avoided, but for those which are delivering a valuable service, what you say is unfair.

I think it is best when you meet in a new agency to gauge the temperature by letting happen the first meeting with the agency's interpreter and get the phone number of the lady. After you use your own interpreter and see what happen. If the agency tries to control the process, if the lady disappears and of course if any of the ordinary red flags show (expansive restaurant, fee more than 50$, hour translating more than 15$, any request of gift, any shopping time, expansive taxi) so you are warned with which type of agency you are working. But this not prevents you to continue because there are also some good girls in such agencies (some people got married with Anastasia). Just choice and control the process till if you have goods reasons to not trust them. On an other han they are some good agencies with which you can go on meeting  without problems.

It is essential anyway to know an independant interpreter and use it without restriction, it is important to contact her or him before the travel and pay him or her generously each time.
 
There are several good agencies in Kharkov.

[jone]

Interpreter Fees:  $15 per hour.  Should not include their time spent getting to your location or travelling home.

Had an FSU Woman date in Kharkov.  Liked the interpreter.  Got rid of the FSU Date.  Now the interpreter does work for me. 

Absolutely find your own interpreter.

[Stirlitz]

But i don't agree with your advice of "avoid commercial agencies where you have to pay for correspondance". There are some valuable agencies and they also need to earn money because they cannot translate letters for free. Of course most (more than 90 % of agencies are between scammers and not very professional) have to be avoided, but for those which are delivering a valuable service, what you say is unfair.

You are free to use any agency. If you are still so naive as to believe that any of them actually translate correspondence.

[Patagonie]

You are free to use any agency. If you are still so naive as to believe that any of them actually translate correspondence.

Guy
first i am not naive
two i rarely write, i am a WAVM (write any visit many) or a WFVM (write few visit many).
three : the ones i sent had been translated because i checked the information after by asking to the girl. I also always use a second interpreter (not from an agency) which can call the lady in ten minutes if i need to check if something is going wrong.  The agencies i am not sure i always get the phone number of the lady if i am interested in at the FIRST meeting.
What is known in this forum is that  often the correspondace is a fake. But less known (i have a friend who is a terp and she explained me the game  of many agencies, i said many, not all) is that agencies screw up the relationship between the RW and the man. You know why, more fees, more translations. Saying things like "i think she is not serious, i think she is not interested ... let me introduce you to a pretty woman, Tatiana . And of course you can reverse. "I think he is not serious..." Also they "forget" to call the lady to get an appointement, so she believes that you are not interested. Such things....
Subtle but very effective.

[Doll]

Pat, I don't think agencies screw up the relationships.
What Stirlitz means is that women have their letters translated somewhere else.
 What you write about "screwing up" is even not funny. They do not do it.

[Patagonie]

Pat, I don't think agencies screw up the relationships.
What Stirlitz means is that women have their letters translated somewhere else.
 What you write about "screwing up" is even not funny. They do not do it.

Hello Doll.
I have perfectly understood what Stirliz explained about translations' agencies.
About screwing up perhaps i not use it in the adequate sense. I want to say (my ukrainian friend who is a professional terp had helped for 80 meetings and so i got it from her) that many agencies are interfering and do their possible to smash up the relationship.
And one time i was using an agency i was not sure, i surprised the agency telling me "meet an other because this one is not interested by you". But the body languague of this lady and her sms were telling me quite the opposite. I let MY terp call this lady 10 minutes after agency's call. From her mouth, she confirmed that she was interested to meet me again.
Knowing what immediate reaction was and  me having an independant terp the agency  became very respectful after.

[Muzh]

Hello Doll.
I have perfectly understood what Stirliz explained about translations' agencies.
About screwing up perhaps i not use it in the adequate sense. I want to say (my ukrainian friend who is a professional terp had helped for 80 meetings and so i got it from her) that many agencies are interfering and do their possible to smash up the relationship.
And one time i was using an agency i was not sure, i surprised the agency telling me "meet an other because this one is not interested by you". But the body languague of this lady and her sms were telling me quite the opposite. I let MY terp call this lady 10 minutes after agency's call. From her mouth, she confirmed that she was interested to meet me again.
Knowing what immediate reaction was and  me having an independant terp the agency  became very respectful after.

Actually, I don't think you got what Stirlitz meant.

[Stirlitz]

Never mind.

But less known … is that agencies screw up the relationship between the RW and the man. You know why, more fees, more translations.

Yep, that happens way too often.

[ECOCKS]

Never mind.Yep, that happens way too often.

My feeling is that some of the agencies do this.

[Patagonie]

This is in my opinion the second stage of the scam rocket,
the less well known, the more perfidious.

It is almost know, or easy to understand, and easy to get information about the first stage :
you write, you see videos, you give money and they feed your fantasy but this is all fake (more than 90 % of agencies, and especially all big ones, bigger is the amount of money involved and more chances that you have to be in a controlled and industrial process).

Second stage : you come.
They need to find an excuse to clean all the shit of the first stage (fake contacts which suddenly are sick or out of the city). So they head you on their "professional agents".
 90% of "bad agencies" are not necessary all using this type of professional agents. They can also easily give an information which is in nature to let people loosing interest in the person they have just met. It can be the man or the woman.
Very easy to tell to someone something who discredit someone else.
More a man dates : more fees, more translations, more gifts, more (this is the trend now) services used.
Why do you need an agency to book a restaurant or make an excursion ???? This the new trend : be your unique correspondant for ALL and let you believe that you will be disburden of all problems, which in fact make you a real prisoner of them (it is why newbies you should know that you have to take the control of the process and kick off the agency as you are going to spend time with a particular lady). I am sure that in some agencies (bad ones) they consider ladies has private property and the agency terp is here to strictly respect the agency policy rather than nurture love. It is the role of the man to unslave as soon possible the lady from the agency's corset, in your mutual interest.

NB : i am hugely user of agency, 90% of my dating had been done with professional agencies. So i respect the work done by the 10% i consider "good".
Don't see in me a fierce opponent of agencies. A lot of OP see all of them as "evil", this is not my case.
I even think that you can deal with the bad ones to your profit (i have focused to the good ones and i am satisfied). Just a question of how to do.
 

[ML]

the more perfidious.

Pat, I am impressed with your expanding English vocabulary.  

Second stage : you come.

No, this usually happens in third stage;  American slang (i.e. 'finishing' in FSU).

NB : i am hugely user of agency,

The word should be 'huge' in this context.  But, now I am impressed with your Latin (NB) also!   

[Patagonie]

ML
Thank you for the commentary.
Ok for huge,
come i got it, and yes there can be several third stages in FSU

Instead of NB : what do you use in english ?
Have a nice day.

[ML]

The common words are 'please note.'

But I also like to use NB for the snob factor, because most won't understand it!!     So keep it up; the Latin usage I mean.

[simila]

Hi guys ,
Just checked in as I have not for sometime.
I'm a Brit , living and working in Kharkov. I'm married to a local and have been for over 4 years.
Yes my friend , you have been scammed , but there are many more guys that have been scammed for a lot more than an expensive over priced meal and some lipstick , so be thankful you learnt early.
In my business I meet many foreign visitors and yours is not the first .
I bet your apartment is through your dating agency as well ?
Most guys learn the hard way the first time , then one their next visit to Kharkov , they do things more independently , so missing out the dating agency scams !
I know a good independent  translator company , the owner is a personal friend of mine , he is an Aussie guy , ex military , he won't rip you off.
As for the dating girls , well many are paid 150 rph per date that they attend , they usually speak english , but split the "translator fee" 50/50 .
Always the best way is to fly in , pre book an apartment , then visit the dating agencies and/or check direct dating sites on line.
There are scammers , but there also hundreds of genuine girls and mature ladies in Kharkov , that really do want to find Mr Right.
We have lots a beautiful friends , young and middle aged that are looking for love .
Keep trying , but keep your eyes wide open .
If you need any advise , from a guy that has done everything you need to know in Kharkov , just PM me and I will try my best to help you.
Apartments/Hotels - Dating - Banks - Restaurants - sightseeing - Travel advise . Etc etc