Marriage in Sumy Ukraine did end happy...NOT!

[ghowellb]

Hi every one. I just what you to know to be careful even if you get married in the Ukraine. I married [Generic Ukrainian Woman] who became [Mrs. Generic Wife] of June 14 2012. I was set up from the get go. After marriage I found out the truth. I thought she had a job, she went to work every day. She had not worked for 2 months before I got there.  I found she had a boy freind on the side and many poeple in on the scam. Over a two year period she recieved 15,000 dollars from me. Beware of these kind of scams. They are the worst because you love them but they do not love you. She was a very good acttress. We could have went on honey moon but she said she had to work. This person told so many lies I think she though they were the truth.  I found there is two ways to get devorce in Ukraine. You can go back to were you were married and if you both agrees in 30 day your good to go but if on the 29 day she says no. It does not happen . I have her in court now. Check out the people you meet. I think back now we know each other for two years but not togather. Sumy is more then you think. They have a lot of clubs that go from 10 PM to 4 AM in the morning. They have dating sites on web to hook up with each other. It is not a back ward town. Good luck  and I have not given up yet. I would not have been able to get devorce with out help of Agency Director.  Stay away from this person she is a very bad peson and dangerous.

[CDW]

I thought she had a job, she went to work every day. ..................Over a two year period she recieved 15,000 dollars from me.

Why send her money when you thought she had a job ?????

[ghowellb]

I was in love and over two years that is not much money to me. That amount also incluses the engagment ring and my ring which I kept. You are right though, I should have not sent more then 200 dollars a month. I should have let her live with her mom and then I should have gotten the apartment my self when I got there. Just think we got married and then I find all this out. She had boyfriend and many more people in this scam. She Even told me she would not divorce me. Thank god I had friends that helped me. On second though I should have not sent more then 100 dollars a month.  This lady is out there again scamming. After 21 September she will be on sites. I will do my best to get her off sites.  I took her to police also, I think she did have to pay some bribes. Just remember they are going to side with Ukraine citizen. This is normal. They have two systems. Legal and almost legal were you can bribe. Have a great day. There are good women out there.

[Daveman]

Hi ghowellb, welcome to the forum.


I removed the photos of the woman.  While I understand your desire to warn others, posting full names and photos of an individual doesn't really help.  It would be better to explain how the scam unfolded... what did she do to reel you in?


Paint the scenario of what happened. 


Do you think you have any responsibility in what happened to you?


Sorry that this turned out badly for you.  I know it is tough.  But rather than just point the finger at her being the devil (which she may very well be), what could you have done differently?  what were some early signs which you may have ignored?

[CDW]

ghowellb. sorry that it had happened to you, but thankfully, you have found out !!!

Before you send money again in the future, you need to remember that they had survived before you came along!

[BillyB]

She was a very good acttress.

Could it be that you were blindly in love? If so, you will have a good chance in meeting the wrong women again. When you visited this woman, was she a good hostess? Did she show you the city sights or did she make you take her to clubs? Did she cook for you and introduce you to family? Her not taking time off of work which didn't exist for a honeymoon with you tells me she probably was never physically affectionate with you. When you're apart, did she always answer your phone calls and if she did, was she short with you and had to go? How many times did she asked you for money? Good women don't ask for money.
 
Your posts have many grammer mistakes. The title of this thread doesn't make sense with what you wrote. Is English your primary language? Could there be a communication issue between you and your wife? Does she speak English? I don't believe she is such a good actress she could fool all men. To prevent this from happening to you again, you have to make some adjustments.

[Gator]

You have my sympathy ghowellb.  I agree with Dave:
 

It would be better to explain how the scam unfolded... what did she do to reel you in?   Paint the scenario of what happened. 

How did you meet?  How well did you know each other before marriage?  If married, why did she stay in Ukraine instead of emigrating to your country?
 
 

[viking]

I don't think you understand the concept of " do not send money". Not even a $100. Remember, you ALLOWED yourself to be scammed. The part I don't understand is why she went and married you. Most scammers draw a line here after they have fleeced a guy and then go on to another one. Or get married, move, get a GC and then adios.

[Hammer2722]

I don't think you understand the concept of " do not send money". Not even a $100. Remember, you ALLOWED yourself to be scammed. The part I don't understand is why she went and married you. Most scammers draw a line here after they have fleeced a guy and then go on to another one. Or get married, move, get a GC and then adios.

Maybe she figured that she could continue to fleece the OP. Seems to me he was not that adamant about bringing her over to his country right after the marriage. She probably saw this as a great opportunity.Seems like the OP went into this relationship too fast and with eyes quite shut.
 
ghowellb, sorry about your situation but I suggest you just move on and not get caught up chasing this lady all over the internet. You will not be able to heal and maybe find a more sincere woman.

[enigma]

I can't believe this! People are asking what the early warning signs were! I will tell you! Women from the Internet from these countries are scam artists full stop! Why Re men so stupid to think that these women are warm and fuzzy and are looking for love! They Re hard and calculating and couldn't care less about honor and honesty! You can not fall in love with someone you haven't met and do not really know!

[IAmZon]

I can't believe this! People are asking what the early warning signs were! I will tell you! Women from the Internet from these countries are scam artists full stop! Why Re men so stupid to think that these women are warm and fuzzy and are looking for love! They Re hard and calculating and couldn't care less about honor and honesty! You can not fall in love with someone you haven't met and do not really know!

DOUBLE DIDDO!  All things begin equal, these women were already high up on the food chain. I guess there were days 10 - 15 years ago that laughable mismatches were normal?

I am damn surprised to remeber how I gut bucked.   But, I never got scammed out of money.   I would rather HAPPILY paid in advance for the "complete honesty / don't treat me like a man coming to Ukraine to find a wife ticket.  ALAS, I still do not know the entire score.  So my main reason for returning to Ukraine is to simply see the other side of the mystery.

Funny, however! 

1, It is hard to overstate to what degree just being an American and meeting a Ukrainian / Russian woman online invites negative steriotypes.

2, I have women friends from Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, and Russia that strongly advise me not to trust women I meet there. They say this with a universality and force that is hard to ignore.

Nothing easy about this!   However, there is Cuba:) THAT place has not been destroyed by gringos / professional bride seekers yet..

[Eduard]

Sure, you can always go for a Cubana, there are some very pretty women among them... what you and some others don't see is that there are millions of awesome, beautiful, sincere and goodhearted women in Russia (who are not part of the MOB scene). But like anywhere in the world they are mixed with dishonest, calculating, devious, bitchy women who will use a man and discard of him when he is no longer of use to them.
Just as you would need to figure out who is who in the USA (if you were looking for an AW) you need to figure out who you are dealing with in the FSU. It is extremely difficult to do if you don't have a 100% language barrier free communication, an excellent knowledge of the culture (as in live there for at least 10 years) and off course as much face to face time as possible. I've said it before and I'll say it again: most of successful FSUW   WM marriages where communication was limited are successful purely by luck. They have gambled and won.
An experienced Russian man can spot a bad apple in a matter of a few minutes or in some cases (when a woman is a very good actress) a couple of days. A Western man who doesn't speak Russian and doesn't have plenty of experience with Russian women will only begin figuring things out after  being married to an FSUW for some time.


I see this all the time with my clients: we meet the first or the second woman, he is smitten with her beauty and charm and after spending a few hours with her he tells me: "Ed, call all other women and cancel with them. She is the ONE, I can just feel it!". Meanwhile I'm noticing that she is a bit mean to store clerks, has an attitude with waiters or people in general... it's in the tone of her voice and how she talks to people in Russian, it's her general attitude which you can only understand if you grew up in the FSU and are a native Russian speaker. It is hard to understand for somebody who is not truly bilingual and bi cultural. There are all these nuances that you will miss that an experienced, insightful native will notice.
Any one who's spent enough time living in the FSU, had many relationships with FSU women and learned the language will agree that this is the truth. Others might disagree. But it is crystal clear to me.

[Daveman]

I can't believe this! People are asking what the early warning signs were! I will tell you! Women from the Internet from these countries are scam artists full stop! Why Re men so stupid to think that these women are warm and fuzzy and are looking for love! They Re hard and calculating and couldn't care less about honor and honesty! You can not fall in love with someone you haven't met and do not really know!

What, exactly, is it that you can't believe?  Perhaps you should work a little less on your believe system and focus more on comprehension.   

DOUBLE DIDDO!  All things begin equal, these women were already high up on the food chain. I guess there were days 10 - 15 years ago that laughable mismatches were normal?

I am damn surprised to remeber how I gut bucked.   But, I never got scammed out of money.   I would rather HAPPILY paid in advance for the "complete honesty / don't treat me like a man coming to Ukraine to find a wife ticket.  ALAS, I still do not know the entire score.  So my main reason for returning to Ukraine is to simply see the other side of the mystery.

Funny, however! 

1, It is hard to overstate to what degree just being an American and meeting a Ukrainian / Russian woman online invites negative steriotypes.

2, I have women friends from Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, and Russia that strongly advise me not to trust women I meet there. They say this with a universality and force that is hard to ignore.

Nothing easy about this!   However, there is Cuba:) THAT place has not been destroyed by gringos / professional bride seekers yet..

Which place in FSU has been destroyed by gringos / professional bride seekers?  How can such a minuscule number of men actually destroy the female population of several countries?  What exactly are "professional bride seekers" anyway?


Men destroy *themselves* by ignoring the obvious, taking shortcuts, etc etc... yeah, there are some bad women in the world.. DUHHHHHuhhhUHHHHH GUH gleeEEEEP? What a freakin' shock!   


Women are calculating and conniving anyway 


Men stab/shoot while women poison...      

[IAmZon]

what you and some others don't see is that there are millions of awesome, beautiful, sincere and goodhearted women in Russia (who are not part of the MOB scene). But like anywhere in the world they are mixed with dishonest, calculating, devious, bitchy women who will use a man and discard of him when he is no longer of use to them.
Just as you would need to figure out who is who in the USA (if you were looking for an AW) you need to figure out who you are dealing with in the FSU. It is extremely difficult to do if you don't have a 100% language barrier free communication, an excellent knowledge of the culture (as in live there for at least 10 years) and off course as much face to face time as possible.

Very true.  However, I saw much better English than I expected - not perfect, but MUCH BETTER than I expected.

I think your service is a very good idea, Eduard. Especially now that I experienced the "gravy train" effect first hand.   Solo travel was better in Ukraine and other EE countries - but it was no joy ride, and takes much time.

Still, I have to say, EE - GENERALLY SPEAKING - not only Marriage Agencies are fast balls, not slow balls.  The women are exceptionally guarded (maybe in my case they should be   And, nobody seem eager to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

[ML]

Sure, you can always go for a Cubana, there are some very pretty women among them... what you and some others don't see is that there are millions of awesome, beautiful, sincere and goodhearted women in Russia (who are not part of the MOB scene). But like anywhere in the world they are mixed with dishonest, calculating, devious, bitchy women who will use a man and discard of him when he is no longer of use to them.
Just as you would need to figure out who is who in the USA (if you were looking for an AW) you need to figure out who you are dealing with in the FSU. It is extremely difficult to do if you don't have a 100% language barrier free communication, an excellent knowledge of the culture (as in live there for at least 10 years) and off course as much face to face time as possible. I've said it before and I'll say it again: most of successful FSUW   WM marriages where communication was limited are successful purely by luck. They have gambled and won.
An experienced Russian man can spot a bad apple in a matter of a few minutes or in some cases (when a woman is a very good actress) a couple of days. A Western man who doesn't speak Russian and doesn't have plenty of experience with Russian women will only begin figuring things out after  being married to an FSUW for some time.


I see this all the time with my clients: we meet the first or the second woman, he is smitten with her beauty and charm and after spending a few hours with her he tells me: "Ed, call all other women and cancel with them. She is the ONE, I can just feel it!". Meanwhile I'm noticing that she is a bit mean to store clerks, has an attitude with waiters or people in general... it's in the tone of her voice and how she talks to people in Russian, it's her general attitude which you can only understand if you grew up in the FSU and are a native Russian speaker. It is hard to understand for somebody who is not truly bilingual and bi cultural. There are all these nuances that you will miss that an experienced, insightful native will notice.
Any one who's spent enough time living in the FSU, had many relationships with FSU women and learned the language will agree that this is the truth. Others might disagree. But it is crystal clear to me.

- - - - - - -

I agree with Ed in certain respects . . . because he is echoing what I said . . . so he must be right.

This part I agree with is the time it takes to determine what the gal (or guy) is really like.

Above he focuses on language ability and cultural traits to make this  determination.

I only deal with gals who can communicate in English, so that takes care of part of the equation . . . and . . . I contend it takes several months of face time to really know a person.

[Eduard]

I can't believe this! People are asking what the early warning signs were! I will tell you! Women from the Internet from these countries are scam artists full stop! Why Re men so stupid to think that these women are warm and fuzzy and are looking for love! They Re hard and calculating and couldn't care less about honor and honesty! You can not fall in love with someone you haven't met and do not really know!

Enigma, I don't know what experience you have had with Russian women but I met my Russian wife on the internet. She is a good, honest, down-to-earth woman and we are raising 2 children together. Been together for 8 years now... please enlighten me, what warning signs should I be looking for?
PS. I also personally know a good number of men who are married to Russian women and are very happy. If you know something that I don't I'm all ears, please educate me 

[Belvis]

Just as you would need to figure out who is who in the USA (if you were looking for an AW) you need to figure out who you are dealing with in the FSU. It is extremely difficult to do if you don't have a 100% language barrier free communication, an excellent knowledge of the culture (as in live there for at least 10 years) and off course as much face to face time as possible.

My guess is that language barrier is ranked 2-nd or rather 3-d in the list of obstacles. Alarming simptoms can be easily seen by naked eyes if one  employs a common sense and sober mind. Moreover clever RW predator can use the language as a powerful tool to cover her true intentions. I would put on the first place the unrealistic expectations of a man who believes in fair tales where he is a prince.
I mean the language is a serious barrier for communication, but not to spot a bad person.

[Daveman]

- - - - - - -

I agree with Ed in certain respects . . . because he is echoing what I said . . . so he must be right.

This part I agree with is the time it takes to determine what the gal (or guy) is really like.

Above he focuses on language ability and cultural traits to make this  determination.

I only deal with gals who can communicate in English, so that takes care of part of the equation . . . and . . . I contend it takes several months of face time to really know a person.

I agree with ML in certain respects... because he is echoing what I said... so obviously he must be correct.. 

[BC]

I still insist the best way to get married is not to want to get married in the first place.

Dating isn't that hard.  Just more expensive and time consuming to date someone outside your community.

Marriage should be viewed as a result and not a goal.  Doing so will negate most, if not all of the risks.

[Daveman]

I still insist the best way to get married is not to want to get married in the first place.

Dating isn't that hard.  Just more expensive and time consuming to date someone outside your community.

Marriage should be viewed as a result and not a goal.  Doing so will negate most, if not all of the risks.

I agree with BC in many respects.. and because I'll echo what he said... so there is no alternative possibility for it to be other than right.

[Eduard]

I still insist the best way to get married is not to want to get married in the first place.

Dating isn't that hard.  Just more expensive and time consuming to date someone outside your community.

Marriage should be viewed as a result and not a goal.  Doing so will negate most, if not all of the risks.

I agree with BC in many respects as well, IF the odds of finding an attractive, in shape, down to earth, marriage minded woman were better for men in their late thirties and older than they are here in the US.

[Faux Pas]

Sure, you can always go for a Cubana, there are some very pretty women among them... what you and some others don't see is that there are millions of awesome, beautiful, sincere and goodhearted women in Russia (who are not part of the MOB scene). But like anywhere in the world they are mixed with dishonest, calculating, devious, bitchy women who will use a man and discard of him when he is no longer of use to them.
Just as you would need to figure out who is who in the USA (if you were looking for an AW) you need to figure out who you are dealing with in the FSU. It is extremely difficult to do if you don't have a 100% language barrier free communication, an excellent knowledge of the culture (as in live there for at least 10 years) and off course as much face to face time as possible. I've said it before and I'll say it again: most of successful FSUW   WM marriages where communication was limited are successful purely by luck. They have gambled and won.
An experienced Russian man can spot a bad apple in a matter of a few minutes or in some cases (when a woman is a very good actress) a couple of days. A Western man who doesn't speak Russian and doesn't have plenty of experience with Russian women will only begin figuring things out after  being married to an FSUW for some time.


I see this all the time with my clients: we meet the first or the second woman, he is smitten with her beauty and charm and after spending a few hours with her he tells me: "Ed, call all other women and cancel with them. She is the ONE, I can just feel it!". Meanwhile I'm noticing that she is a bit mean to store clerks, has an attitude with waiters or people in general... it's in the tone of her voice and how she talks to people in Russian, it's her general attitude which you can only understand if you grew up in the FSU and are a native Russian speaker. It is hard to understand for somebody who is not truly bilingual and bi cultural. There are all these nuances that you will miss that an experienced, insightful native will notice.
Any one who's spent enough time living in the FSU, had many relationships with FSU women and learned the language will agree that this is the truth. Others might disagree. But it is crystal clear to me.

C'mon Eduard. You are skirting were you should not go again. You are certainly chumming for business with this post. That doesn't belong here.

With that bolded quote though is that all, many, most EW/WM successful marriages with some language difficulty are pure luck? Really? Of course now those that hired Eduard, for communication issues, now those are all calculated and strategically planned successful marriages? Quite a stretch even for you Ed. How about this, all successful marriages are pure luck?

[Eduard]

As I stated before: I don't expect somebody who is not bilingual and bi cultural to see my point. Some hopefully will others won't. Nevertheless it's my point of view.

[Faux Pas]

As I stated before: I don't expect somebody who is not bilingual and bi cultural to see my point. Some hopefully will others won't. Nevertheless it's my point of view.

It not as much a point of view Ed as it is a fantasy. Don't use Eduard = pure luck. Use Eduard = successful marriage. 

[IAmZon]

It not as much a point of view Ed as it is a fantasy. Don't use Eduard = pure luck. Use Eduard = successful marriage.

Well, there is an ton of fantasies to go around in this pursuit. 

You have to be cocky, gullible, or naive - or, a mixture of all three to get fired up about all this and roll the dice in the first place.  Of course, Eduard slants his statements in the positive for him.  But, he also says many true things.  The dating sites, the tour companies, hell 90% of the women ... all of their statements contain a slant.  At least, he seems to get his clients in greener pastures - that is no small accomplishment:)