Why your woman don't help you?

[Jumper]

Write One Visit One , Write Many Visit Many


 yet again???




Here is the perfect Ukrainian tree to bash your head on to  settle this.
 

[I/O]

ML: Logic has very little to do with any of this. IME over the years, there are two types of men, those who can afford multiple (if necessary) VO's and those who can't.
 
Olly: I agree with your original sentiment, if she is not into the organisation of the trip and meeting, she is either not Russian or not interested or both.

[Jumper]

olly,


Men that somehow don't notice that their romantic interest ,  really isn't interested in them,
seem common.


There are millions of signs if a woman really is interested.They may be subtle, but they are there.


If it is a case where it is one man visiting one woman, things like her wanting/offering  to help in travel arrangements is just very natural.


It doesn't occur to  some men that if she doesn't do this naturally,that  something is wrong.
 Normally they have fallen for a dream  or photo, and  don't recognize
that all the normal parts of a burgeoning relationship , or the actions of any woman actually interested in them, are somehow missing.


They rationalize away any discrepancies to normal behavior ,by cultural differences or that the situation is just *different*
or they actually understand,
and simply take a chance that in person she will fall for them..
a gamble, a roll of the dice?


Mostly it is just some man whose thoughts are clouded by some pretty photo?
 

[ML]

You said a number of times your Gal is a widow if your business acquaintance, did I get something wrong?

No, you are correct as far as this statement of yours goes.

But, my statement is also correct:  Even the Gal living with me now came via a WMVM trip.

[ML]

several other halves - lol, how many halves does one man need?

Well, I suppose it varies from man to man.

[GQBlues]

Write One Visit One , Write Many Visit Many

yet again???...

LOL. Old (bad) habits die hard. I never did understand why there's even a 'debate' at all in the first place.

Cool pic, AJ. I hope that the Moses shoes are at least from Kenneth Cole. 

[JohnDearGreen]

And please, tell me what is VM? 

Oily,
I don't have time to read all the posts, but sounds like you visited amongst the 23 million residents for 3 trips.  Met friends of friends.  Then found someone.  I don't see that as much different from some of the men's VM trips here.  I just preferred to meet those I select, rather than random ladies by chance.  I consider most of the ladies I met to be friends (well, maybe 66%).

[CanadaMan]

Further to what Ranetka has said.

ML in your famous post  "Pursuing FSUW 101. The procedures and the dating websites."   I tried to keep you honest.

I asked you to state somewhere in the thread that although you went on many WMVM trips, and you found them useful overall;  the fact of the matter is that the woman you ultimately found and are now living with, was not on any of your WMVM lists.

You found the FSU woman you are now living with by much more conventional means; through someone who you knew.

I asked you to mention this for a couple of reasons.

First off, there is a big irony at play here. Readers would automatically assume that the woman you ultimately would find would come from a WMVM list. (note I didn't say WMVM trip).

But that didn't happen in your case. It is ironic that the woman you found was through a former business acquaintance, who wasn't on your extensive WMVM list. Shouldn't you be up front about that?
I mean it is not something that is shameful or anything. 

The second reason, as I mentioned in your FSUW 101 thread, was that a fellow named 'spectris' who gave very specific advice on how to find someone in the FSU was admonished by several members here after he admitted he found his mate at home right in the U.S., despite making five trips to the FSU. That was rather ironic too.

[Daveman]

After having been in this game for a while.  I think there are only three ways to meet and marry the right woman no matter what method is involved...


1) get lucky
2) don't freakin' quit until you get lucky
3) see one and two


   just an observation

[BillyB]

 A guy may have to date 20 women before he finds one that a good fit to marry. He can do it one at a time or he can date 10 at a time. His choice. Women have choices too. There's no rule that says dating must happen a certain way yet everybody has their own rules. Date one or date many. You can't expect everyone to embrace your rules.
 
I've dated many RW in America at once but I did a VO for my wife. I can't say VO made it successful because at the time of correspondence with my wife, I was seeing other women. If the two RW on work/travel visas showed up instead of staying in NY at the request of their friends, I would be busy with them living in my house instead of visiting my wife. As fate turned out, they didn't showed up and I decided to hop on a plane last second. Timing had to be perfect because she lived in Libya and was in Ukraine for a short time which is where we met. Although it was a VO trip, I had plently of backup just in case things didn't work out. Some may say luck was involved but I gave myself plenty of choices to choose from. If I dated only one woman at a time and forsake others, I would have never met my wife.

[Daveman]

As fate turned out...


Some may say luck was involved...

Yep,  they sure may.. 

[Jumper]

LOL. Old (bad) habits die hard. I never did understand why there's even a 'debate' at all in the first place.

Cool pic, AJ. I hope that the Moses shoes are at least from Kenneth Cole. 

Its a funny debate because people try to put rational and logical thought and choices ,
into  romantic relationship scenarios, where the basics of human emotions present  are
seldom logical?


The tree is on the Yalta Boardwalk, about 50 yards from the beach


All the dents in it are from Daveman, myself, and some local Ukrainian men, who dare to date the notorious UW , who think in the oblique.


 
and don't be dissin my kicks!

Those are my favorite boat/beach shoes, and about as old as Moses!!
So old i couldn't possibly remember the brand and its long ago worn off, they must have been well made though.. been  in lots of countries and several lakes/oceans /seas, and  just never die.
My wife's convinced every time they get wet they will fall apart,(maybe she is just hoping  they will!

[ML]

Further to what Ranetka has said.

ML in your famous post  "Pursuing FSUW 101. The procedures and the dating websites."   I tried to keep you honest.

I asked you to state somewhere in the thread that although you went on many WMVM trips, and you found them useful overall;  the fact of the matter is that the woman you ultimately found and are now living with, was not on any of your WMVM lists.

You found the FSU woman you are now living with by much more conventional means; through someone who you knew.

I asked you to mention this for a couple of reasons.

First off, there is a big irony at play here. Readers would automatically assume that the woman you ultimately would find would come from a WMVM list. (note I didn't say WMVM trip).

But that didn't happen in your case. It is ironic that the woman you found was through a former business acquaintance, who wasn't on your extensive WMVM list. Shouldn't you be up front about that?
I mean it is not something that is shameful or anything. 

The second reason, as I mentioned in your FSUW 101 thread, was that a fellow named 'spectris' who gave very specific advice on how to find someone in the FSU was admonished by several members here after he admitted he found his mate at home right in the U.S., despite making five trips to the FSU. That was rather ironic too.

I repeat again.  My procedures for WMVM worked great.  I found several women on these trips who I could be with on a permanent basis.  Many guys here would have become engaged to several of these women during the first  trip and would be already married now.

I am still in contact with several of these women and cannot say for sure what the future holds.  But I can say unequivocally that a well organized and executed WMVM plan can result in meeting with many quite exceptional FSUW.  The only problem with this is that it is very hard to choose among the women.

And, I did meet with the Gal who is now with me on a VM trip.

[Olly]

I am still in contact with several of these women and cannot say for sure what the future holds.  But I can say unequivocally that a well organized and executed WMVM plan can result in meeting with many quite exceptional FSUW.  The only problem with this is that it is very hard to choose among the women.

Like in the shop 

[ML]

Like in the shop 

You did it like in the shop also Olly.

You have looked at,  thought about, dreamed about, talked with, met, and dated several men since your divorce.
Sure,  they may have all been in your home town, and may have been over a period of several months or years.

But aside from differences in the location and the time period . . . both you and I shopped.

[noelscot]

A logical man won't be planning to visit 10-20 women whom he had never seen and have not had a long correspondence. But... it is theme for new topic 

It's so funny when we hear about "logical" people. I thought the German philosophers like Nietzsche destroyed this British myth of people being rational. New flash: people are irrational.   




The thing I find interesting about RWD are the "how to" guides that make love sound like rocket science. Paradigms are presented in rigid, dogmatic terms and to violate them is almost like heresy. Yes, there are some general guidelines that people can read here that are useful. But love is an irrational affair. That's what makes it an affair of the heart, not the brain.


As for WOVO vs. WMVM, it seems like a false dichotomy. We are told there are two sides to a coin. No. A coin is three-dimensional. There is a third side. Often fourth and fifth and sixth sides to complex issues. You get the point.


People should gather useful information and the like, but ultimately, they will have to choose their own path.  Meeting the right person is largely luck, destiny, fate, random clumping of odds. What we call it is just semantics. In the main, there is no quick and easy recipe for success.


 


 

[Olly]

. . . both you and I shopped.

You can buy a wife but you can't to buy the love.

[Muzh]

I
I am still in contact with several of these women and cannot say for sure what the future holds.  But I can say unequivocally that a well organized and executed WMVM plan can result in meeting with many quite exceptional FSUW.  The only problem with this is that it is very hard to choose among the women.

I guess it all boils down to the sex, right?

[Ranetka]

I repeat again.  My procedures for WMVM worked great.  I found several women on these trips who I could be with on a permanent basis.  Many guys here would have become engaged to several of these women during the first  trip and would be already married now.


And, I did meet with the Gal who is now with me on a VM trip.

The point is you did not. None of the women you met were good enough for you to stop looking. So your WMVM did not work for you to find "the one".


As for your Gal you may had a date with her while on WMVM trip but you knew her before so she does not count really. :-)

[GoodOlBoy]

You will see unmitigated vicious attacks on these men from the WOVO men and from the women.........But, I do not use the very vicious, fierce, savage, deplorable, beastly, venomous, cruel, poisonous, and brutal words that have been directed at me and others who have followed the WOVO mode.

Oh Please!! 
 
GOB

[ML]

You can buy a wife but you can't to buy the love.

And you can buy a husband, but you can't buy the love.

[ML]

I guess it all boils down to the sex, right?

Maybe for you, but not for me.

[ML]

The point is you did not. None of the women you met were good enough for you to stop looking. So your WMVM did not work for you to find "the one".

As for your Gal you may had a date with her while on WMVM trip but you knew her before so she does not count really. :-)

Yes,  I did.  Several  of the women I met were good enough for me to stop  looking.  My WMVM did work for me to find the one.  There just happened to be several ones.  As I said,  most guys  would have become engaged and married to any one of these gals, so it did work to find the ones.

And, yes my Gal does count.  I met up with her on a VM trip.   Had I not been  on this trip,  I would not have met up with her.

[Ranetka]

Yes,  I did.  Several  of the women I met were good enough for me to stop  looking.  My WMVM did work for me to find the one.  There just happened to be several ones.  As I said,  most guys  would have become engaged and married to any one of these gals, so it did work to find the ones.

And, yes my Gal does count.  I met up with her on a VM trip.   Had I not been  on this trip,  I would not have met up with her.

So why did not you stop looking but went on to the next one, next one, next one?



Your Gal had never been on a dating site so most guys would never met her on WMVM. :-)

[ML]

So why did not you stop looking but went on to the next one, next one, next one?

Your Gal had never been on a dating site so most guys would never met her on WMVM. :-)

You can't know if you have met 'the one' until you meet several.

If you stop at the first gal (guy), then you have not met 'the one' you have only met one you will accept.

Yes, that's true she was never on a dating site.
But if another guy would have met her through her husband or some other way, then he might have also met her later on a VM trip.  Or he might have been on a VM trip and met her at the grocery store while they were both shopping for flour to make blini or cheese to make syrnike.

The possibilities are endless.   

And now I must go because she will be coming home soon; and if she finds me on the Internet, she will beat the sheeeeet out of me because I am not scrubbing the floor.  I already have a lot of bruises and I don't want more.