From Heaven to Hell... with a broken heart.

[newjason]

Hey Mikey,
Sorry to hear about your experience. I can tell you are a romantic and a lover.  Be sure that this broken feeling you have now will pass. I know that sounds cliche.
My advice to you is to take this and use it to your advantage. You got the experience of being in a lop sided affair. You wanted it to work, so much so that It made you overlook some very key signals that you either ignored, justified in your mind, or rationalized  and wrote them off.
You gave your love openly and that's all you can do. You can't make someone accept it.
You knew something was off from the beginning. Next time, listen to that feeling. It's there for a reason.
You may have very well been "the one that got away" for her. But that is her problem, not yours.
If you think she was holding out for someone better, then let her hold out by herself. Don't keep going back for more of the same. If she was into  you, you would know it. Without a doubt you would know it.
Use this time to heal, and understand that it will take time, and accept that as a fact of life.
Stop putting her on a pedestal just because you got some nookie.

think about what happened.  Did she really have to exert any effort at all, other than saying yes to meet you in hong kong? Did you do everything to make that happen, and she basically just had to show up? If that was the case,  learn from that.  If a Woman was paying you all kinds of attention, making starry eyes at you, calling and wanting your attention all the time, and she bought you a all expense paid trip to an exotic destination and you simply had to show up cause it cost you nothing, and you had nothing else to do, but you felt nothing romantically about that woman, would you still go ?
Consider your answer carefully.
I will guess that you probably would not go. BUT
that doesn't mean that everyone  else wouldn't think twice about going...
Does it make them bad people?
It doesn't matter,  what matters is you, and what are inside.
At the end of the day,  you have to live with your decisions, and if you can say that you did what you felt was right, then you must live with that.
You will find some other woman who shares your values and undeniably cares about you.
Until that time comes, stop looking at what she did, and start realizing what she didn't do, and what you should have done differently. If you allow yourself to be easy, then people will use you.
Don't let them do that. Have some respect for yourself and demand it from others.  there are 7+ billion people out there pal. You deserve to find the one who loves you for you, not for your  ability to spit $100 bills on command.

Chin Up  dude.

Jason

[Globetrotter]

For Jone..............
 
 
sure, you can get a baby for yourself...and if you believe a 19 year old wants to hook up with a 45 year old........just ask some of our FSU girls how they think about this subject.  You can certainly find many that will agree to such a relationship, but never think it will last more than 2 years and one day.  Da............?  Our good friend...with so much dating experience and "the hourflass running" will know all about this soon. 
 
If you think like this, good luck to you....but each to their own!

[Patagonie]

Mikey, let's say she was completely on the up and yup. That being the presumed case - you never gave her a chance to fall in love with you because, from what you posted, it appears that you were licking her butt from the beginning.  She'd never respect you that way and without that respect, she had neports" indicate initial feelings? 

+ 1000
I cannot express better what he said.

[Patagonie]

Guy thank you to share with us your story.
Love can hurt, and we never know exactly when he catches us.
However it seems to me that you are a very fast lover.
I am going to comment  your post, and sorry, but it will hurt you.

We met online and started talking 3-4 months ago.  She would push me away a couple times, but finally 'let me in'.  I got her facebook, and confirmed she was beautiful.  We would talk, maybe once or twice a day via email.  I noticed that she never opened up to me.  Only told me weather reports when I told her how I was felt. 
Itold her how i was felt" SORRY BUT YOU WAS FELT ABOUT WHAT EXACTLY ? AN ONLINE MEETING, A PHOTO, TWO PHOTOS, AND YOU FEEL SOMETHING ?

      It was quite the surprise when one day she says that she was fired at her job,  and wants to visit
SO TO MAKE SIMPLE IT IS BECAUSE SHE LOST HER JOB THAT SHE WANTS TO VISIT YOU ? WHAT IS YOUR VALUE AT HIS MOMENT ?  SHE CANNOT FIND SOME VACATIONS ?
me in the USA. We researched and found it would be impossible.  We decided to visit Hong Kong for a week.
WHAT IS THE PROBLEM FOR YOU TO GO IN HER CITY ?
 At that very time, we started skyping about once a week.  It was great.  Great conversations that lasted many hours. 
      4 weeks after our decision to meet, after just before flying out, the feelings were very thick.
 3the feelings were very thick" YOUR FEELINGS WERE VERY THICK NOT HER.
She would call me late at night from her friends house sometimes because she had been drinking.
"because she had been drinking" RED FLAG, SHE DRINKS ? SHE CALL YOU LATE AT NIGHT BECAUSE SHE DRINKED, AND YOU FIND THIS IS A PROOF OF RELATIONSHIP ? 
One thing though... the entire time, she still did not open up and tell me her feelings.
WHY WOULD SHE HAVE FEELINGS ?
 This really bugged me the most of all.  I mean, it was like expressing interest to a brick wall.  NOTHING in return.  My words just went into a pit.
AND YOU THINK BY TELLING HER MORE AND MORE ABOUT YOUR IRRELEVANT EMOTIONNAL STATE YOU ARE GOING TO SET FEELINGS IN HER HEART. LET ME TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE JUST LOOSING SOME POINTS WITH A WOMAN

       I made the mistake of inviting the 8 year old child along, because immediately, it was about the child. 
SO SHE WAS NOT HAVING TIME BUT NOW SHE GOT IT ? WHY SHE HAD TIME TO MAKE A TRIP BUT NO TIME TO KNOW YOU IN HER CITY ? CLASSICAL MISTAKE  OF A BEGINNER AND AS WE READ BELOW YOU PAID THE HIGH PRICE.
AND YOU INVITE ALSO THE CHILD ? WHY ? TO BE A NICE BOY ?
I got about 5 percent time in with her for the entire week there.   But, the time we did have, after the child went to bed, and she would come into my room every other night for the first 5 nights, we stayed up until sunrise,
WOMEN LIKE SEX AS MUCH AS MEN AND SORRY TO BREAK THE ROMANTISM BUT THEY CAN HAVE SEX WITHOUT LOVE AS MEN DO.
and yes, doing 'you-know-what' twice out of the 7 days.
IMPORTATN / SHE LIKES YOU ENOUGH TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU WHICH PROOF THAT YOU ATTRACTED HER ENOUGH TO PASS THROUGH THE PHYSICAL ATTRACTION TEST.
     One thing that bugged me, during the trip, when out in public, she did not show any affection toward me at all.
PROOF ONE THAT SHE WAS NOT IN LOVE.
Didn't even try.   In fact, I hardly got any affection. BECAUSE YOU ARE CONSTANTLY IN DEMAND,  WOMEN FLEE THIS TYPE OF MEN? YOU STARTED TO SCREW UP YOUR MEETING BEFORE BY CONSTANTLY DEMANDING SIGNS OF LOVE OF ATTTENTION. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN JAMES BOND OR TOM CRUISE IN TOP GUN CALLING A WOMAN  EVERY TEN MINUTES ASKING HER (THEM) "DO YOU LOVE ME ? DO YOU LIKE ME ?3 WATCH AGAIN THIS TYPE OF MOVIE CAREFULLY AND GET THE RIGHT ATTIDUDE.
 
     Saying goodbye at the airport was great...    She went back home, I did too and at soon as I did, the problems started to occur. 
PROBLEMS NEVER STARTED, YOU CREATED THEM BUT FOCUSSING ON HER TOO MUCH.
She was back in town for 2 days and then put up new photo's on her dating profile, of her, on her trip to hong kong.  Mind you, the profile page was turned off, but, she would still log in every couple of days and would browse what else was out there.   This became the knife in my chest that eventually killed our relationship.   
SHE HAD NOT YET DECIDED THAT YOU ARE THE RIGHT MAN
     I would send her emails, trying to hint that I'd like to see her again, or that I miss her.
YOU PUSHED HER TOO HARD TO GET HER LOVE, UNFORTUNATELY THIS TYPE OF BEGGING HAD NEVER BRING LOVE.
 She would reply back with the weather report. 
SHE WANTED TO KEEP HER OPTIONS OPEN
The first week went by, I asked her if she liked me.  "No, it's still too early". 
YOU LOST MORE POINTS HERE
 2nd week, "No, Its' still too early".
YOU LOST ADDITIONNAL POINTS HERE
   Now, the 3rd week goes by, and she's still logging into her profile...
NORMAL YOU DIDN'T PROOF  THAT YOU WERE WORTHLY AND  YOU DO ALL TO LOOSE HER INTEREST.
  but this time, I see another page (it's kind of like facebook, but a Russian version).   She doesn't know I know about it.  Right before her trip to hong kong, she writes 'Vacation to Hong Kong'.  And, exactly 5 days after her return home, she writes, "Vacation to St. Peters-burg?". 
SHE TRAVELS, THIS IS GOOD FOR WOMEN. YOU PAY THEY TRAVEL? WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT ? AND SHE CAN LET HER POSSIBILITIES OPEN? NEXT GIRL GO TO HER CITY.
 In fact, she is there right now, but she told me was going to Moscow for a potential job opportunity.
SHIT. AND IF SHE STAYED HIDDEN FROM HER CHILD DURING YOUR MEETING  IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE THAT SHE HAD ALSO A LOCAL BOYFRIEND IN HER CITY.
  Of course shes going to say that.
AND YOU PAID HER TICKET TO SEE THE OTHER MAN IN ST PETE ? PERFECT. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO WAKE UP AND FOLLOW THE BASICS (GO TO HER CITY, AND YOU WILL AVOID WOMEN LITTLE GAMES) ???
 Especially when I pay for the plan ticket.

   I'm floored.  Crushed. Torn into a million peaces.  I called her and didn't mention what I had found, but I did say,
WHY YOU DIDN'T TELL HER ?
 "You need to tell me now... Yes, No or Maybe".
LOOSING ATTITUDE, YOU WERE NOT IN POSITION TO ASK SOMETHING AND ESPECIALLY ABOUT LOVE, THIS IS NOT WORKING LIKE THIS WITH WOMEN. SHE HOLD ALL CARDS N HANDS  AND DIDN'T WANT  TO  MAKE A CHOICE. YOU ONLY LOOSE MORE POINTS HERE AND "SUICIDE YOURSELF"; SHE WAS HAVING ENOUGH INTEREST IN YOU TO KEEP YOU AS CHALLENGER AND PERHAPS AS BACKUP IN THE FUTURE BUT YOU SCREW UP YOUR CHANCES TO BE A POTENTIAL BACKUP HERE.(She couldn't even eek out a maybe until I forced it out of her).  Anyway, we hung up on each other and a couple of other really bad things were said though instant message right after...   to which I hear from her "Finished".
SHE WAS ENOUGH HONEST TO DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE A CHOICE (IT WOULD HAD BEEN EASY FOR HER TO LIE)
I apologized the next day. 
YOU APOLOGIZED TO BE A WUS ?
Waiting a few days, apologized again
YOU WENT DEEPER IN YOU GRAVE
, telling her I'm making changes, wanting to repair this... to which she replied.   "It was enough for.
 We can be friends Rbut nothing else".
YOU GOT HERE YOU SPECIAL AWARD : WHICH IS DESSERVED TO ANY MEN WHEN AFTER A PROMISING RELATIONSHIP THEY HAVE DO ALL THEY CAN TO KILL LOVE BY THEIR WUSSY ATTITUDE.

My gut feeling was that she was holding out for something better,
YES WOMEN HAVE GENERALLY MANY OPTIONS AND THEY HOLD THEM TILL THEY GOT A WINNER
 or still had to meet at least one more guy.    The thing I got out of it, is that Russian women can be very cold when it comes to expressing feeling. 
FALSE
 It was very difficult for me to see her laughing and playing with her child... and all around us, other couples were holding hands,
I UNDEERSTAND YOUR PAIN
 but it was like I was the limo driver.  I was only talked too or even acknowledged when absolute needed when we were out on the town.  It was like this in the end anyway.
IT IS HERE THAT YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT THIS RELATIONSHIP WERE NOT FOR YOU. HAD YOU USUALLY THIS TYPE OF RELATIONSHIP WITH THIS HIGH LEVEL OF FEELING AND THIS FEELING OF  LACK ING OF AFFECTION  FELLOW ? IF THIS IS REMINDING YOU PAST STORIES IT IS TIME TO MEET A PROFESSIONAL PERHAPS.
Maybe bringing the child was what killed it. 
NO

     This 'break up' was last week.   I plan to wait 2 weeks, send her a simple "I hope your trip to moscow turned out OKAY".  And leave it at that. 
NO YOU DIDN'T LEAVE IT, YOU HAVE TO TAKE   IN ACCOUNT YOUR MOURNY TO DRY YOUR EMOTIONNAL STATE BEFORE RESTARTING CLEAR WITH AN OTHER WOMAN.

I'm so hoping someone doesn't mention the plan ticket, but I added it just to add to the details.   It's funny too, because I asked her a couple time to skype, and she was always busy.  But, all the sudden, out of nowhere, she wants to skype, where she starts going on and on about this new job... and then, out of the blue, asks for help to get there. 
SHE LOST ALL RESPECT FOR YOU. YOU NEED TO MOVE AND NEVER LET THIS HAPPEN AGAIN.
She asks for plan fair, but not hotel fare.    So, my theory is, she wanted to meet this other guy really bad,
he turned her down on the fact of money,
HE ACTS MORE WORTHLY THAN YOU DID
and then she scrounged some together so she can meet him.    Here feelings were probably already focused on this new man.

So, I guess, when someone else is still logging in, confront them? I don't know.

[Chelseaboy]

Mikey,
          Just because a girl will/will not hold your hand in public means nothing really.
 
Some seriously interested girls in you won't hold your hand in public,because they don't like showing affection in public.Been there...done that.
Conversely,some prodaters will be only too happy to hold your hand in public,to help create the illusion that they are "into" you,whilst their mind is thinking up ways to extract more cash/gifts out of you.Been there..done that.
 
Regarding other posters comments about some good guys liking bad girls,and some good girls liking bad guys,there is a saying for that "Treat them mean,keep them keen".
There is no doubt there are people that will walk all over boy/girl friends that treat them nicely,as if they lose their respect for them.....no challenge maybe ?

[Chicagoguy]

Mikey, what I am still trying to understand is why when we begin to write/date Russian [substitute other choices] women we depart from lifelong habits.
How many of us bring flowers on our first date in U.S. How many of us send gifts before ever meeting. How many of us will invite a woman and her son to travel thousands of miles on the first meeting. Maybe we should use the word "woman" instead of "Russian woman". At the begining we move this whole process into an all new and uncessary realm when maybe it is at bottom just the same as before.
The main difference for me in all my expierences was the money. I had never spent so much on a date before and I just wanted to be careful. I still had some what we used to call bad dates but I just accepted it as the norm. A waste of time on their part and mine  but we never any bad feelings. Nice women all - and there are many out there.
These are just from some of my experiences and thoughts. Just trying to help the brothers on this quest.
 

[GoodOlBoy]

How many of us bring flowers on our first date in U.S. .....

That would be me CG. 
 
I understand some of the things younger guys do that are on your "list" CG, because IMHO they are on a compressed schedule (maybe 2 weeks off a year from their job?), so they try to rush the FSU courting process.
 
For the record, I'm saying I understand this behavior, I AM  NOT saying I agree with it.
 
GOB

[mikeyUSA]

Thanks to everyone.  I needed this slapping around. Seriously. 

After hearing everything... I think she just 'went through the motions'. She was probably excited at the possibility of falling in love.   Heck, she didn't have anything to loose. I was the first guy to offer to meet her.  The reason I didn't visit her town is because I wouldn't be able to get a visa quick enough for her and she says "I don't want you to see how dirty and ugly my home and my hometown is".  Trust me, I've seen photos, and it's bad.

    Yes, I was licking her butt from the beginning, and she lost respect for me.   I quickly turned into the 'friend'.  And, she kept me on backup while she looked for other guys.   And yes, I got the 'wus trophy'.

I do know that her face would glow when she would see me for the first time each day...  that part is not my imagination.     So I guess... at this point, I would like to stay a little hopeful about this, and I will leave her completely alone..., and move on.      Maybe she'll say hello sometime in the future.  At which time, I'll not lick her butt, and be very aloft, and only slightly available.    I guess it's obvious that I don't need to send her a simple note in 2 weeks. If she thinks about me... she'll do it to me.  Anything else from me will only further re-inforce her notion of my wussy-ness.

  You know, it's funny... but I think of the things I did wrong, and how I could have not screwed up...   and how to repair the damage... but, at this point, the ONLY thing I can do,  is 'nothing'.    The best thing to do now, is nothing (and move on).    If she writes, she writes.   If not, so be it.

And you know what... it is hard.  I know I'll get over it, and sure, I'll still check her profiles to see if they're still turned off.  Heck, just this morning I saw that she completely deleted one of them.  Heck, maybe I'll even post my own profile on her sites, so that she will 'stumble upon them', and maybe create some jealousy... let her see that I'm not licking her butt anymore.  Maybe that will pluck at a heart string.  Who knows.  I mean, heck, that's all I've got...  Nothing.

[CDW]

If she is really interested in you, she would have wanted you to visit to her home country - not neutral country!  That's golden rule in dating - always visit to her country in the 1st meeting

[tfcrew]

  We decided to visit Hong Kong for a week.   

Why? 
   

 

     I made the mistake of inviting the 8 year old child along, because immediately, it was about the child.   

Where else would a child be?
Anyone else would automatically visit such a pair at their home.

[mendeleyev]

In addition, what I keep going back to, is reading the internet where Russian women do NOT talk about their feelings.

Mickey, sorry for your misfortune but folks here have told you the truth.

I live with a Russian wife. We have 3 adults daughter now grown, but who used to live under our roof. My Russian MIL (mother in law) lives with us. We have a fairly large place in a Moscow suburb and on weekends and in summers enjoy hosting a variety of aunts, female cousins, nieces, and close friends.

If you understand Russian, quickly you'll learn that RW most certainly do talk about their feelings, especially if they want you to know what they are feeling. Our late and dearly departed Uncle Mikhailovich used to sum it up as chatter as he'd invite the rest of the menfolk to walk down to the lake and enjoy some fishing. Invariably the "chatter" could still be heard on our return. 

The only times my wife is quiet about her feelings are the times when I'm in trouble. That silence is not a good sound.
   

[Daveman]

... I mean, heck, that's all I've got...  Nothing.

Absolutely false...


You have first hand experience.  You got on a plane and went to meet her.  You know what doesn't work. You know tell tale signs of what you DON'T want in a relationship... hell, you're miles ahead of many other guys.  Yeah, perhaps you could have done some things differently, but THOSE lessons are also major dating currency in your pocket.


The only thing you don't have is that one specific girl in a world of how many hundreds of thousands or even millions who would be a far better match for *you*?  So she wasn't that match.  You don't really even love her. You are merely attached to her.  So break that attachment.  Don't check her profiles. Don't place your profile around hoping she'll find it.  Get pissed and tell yourself "never again will I waste my time with someone who doesn't reciprocate".  Forget the notion of "winning her back". She's not worth another minute of your precious and valuable time when there are so many ladies out there just as pretty, and who would also be a better match.  As difficult as it may seem at the moment, take a little time but get back on the horse and start chatting up other ladies - here, there, everywhere. 


Read this again:

Seriously, Mikey,

Give yourself at least two weeks to grieve.  If you can do this, I would immediately destroy all email correspondence and pictures. (You may want to save one to show your future wife. - 'This is the woman that saved my life and saved me for you.  Heaven knows, I might have wound up with her!')

After two weeks, get back on the horse.

A much wiser man you will be.

-j

There's lots of great info in this thread, read it all again, but that above is "next step" action.  Break cleanly and completely.

[Jumper]

We met online and started talking 3-4 months ago.  She would push me away a couple times, but finally 'let me in'.  I got her facebook, and confirmed she was beautiful.  We would talk, maybe once or twice a day via email. I noticed that she never opened up to me.  Only told me weather reports when I told her how I was felt.  Itold her how i was felt

It's not about Russian women, Italian women or Greek women..
any woman ,of any nationality, would react similarly.

you knew well that
*Shes just not that into you*

even when she warmed slightly after losing her job 
you knew that she never opened up.
and really why should she? she did not know you or you her.
don't fall for anyone before you actually meet.
a bit of infatuation is one thing.. if its reciprocal,but in this case it was evident all along that ot wasn't.
If you had strong feelings for an American woman before meeting ,she'd likely ditch you as well, as its just odd and unnatural.

Seems like you recognize what happened.
and really she may have been genuine and given it a fair shot but you blew it.
or she could have used you a bit for simply a fun trip with the kid.
or any combination of feelings she may have had in between.
odds are it was a bit of a fling, if it went better she would have pursued you. As is you chased her when she wasn't that interested.Never a good thing,
but It happens.

There are no guarantees in dating. none.
doesn't matter if its next door, or a 16 hr plane ride.
I'd only suggest working on understanding when women are at the same interest level as you are in them.
look at their actions not words.

[Jumper]

Absolutely false...


You have first hand experience.  You got on a plane and went to meet her.  You know what doesn't work. You know tell tale signs of what you DON'T want in a relationship... hell, you're miles ahead of many other guys.  Yeah, perhaps you could have done some things differently, but THOSE lessons are also major dating currency in your pocket.


The only thing you don't have is that one specific girl in a world of how many hundreds of thousands or even millions who would be a far better match for *you*?  So she wasn't that match.  You don't really even love her. You are merely attached to her.  So break that attachment.  Don't check her profiles. Don't place your profile around hoping she'll find it.  Get pissed and tell yourself "never again will I waste my time with someone who doesn't reciprocate".  Forget the notion of "winning her back". She's not worth another minute of your precious and valuable time when there are so many ladies out there just as pretty, and who would also be a better match.  As difficult as it may seem at the moment, take a little time but get back on the horse and start chatting up other ladies - here, there, everywhere. 


Read this again:



There's lots of great info in this thread, read it all again, but that above is "next step" action.  Break cleanly and completely.

exactly.


while i don't recommend learning the hard way. its still how most of us do anything lol


treat everything you did as a learning experience,
if you don't,
 thats when its a waste.

[mikeyUSA]

I'll tell you a much more detailed story if you don't mind. It'll help me get it off my chest. You guys have already helped me so much already.  So please, be ugly with me.  It's helping.  It's helping.  It’s kind of like “slapping someone out of it”.

Day 1:
 Arrive airport 11 pm.  Very good feelings in the air.  She laughed and giggled on the way to the hotel.   But straight to bed.

Day 2:
It was the first day out together...  we walked aimlessly through the city together for what seemed like miles.  She would purposely 'brush up against' me occasionally.  She would also do things like, point her camera to the sky, and slowly back up into me, until she felt my chest so softly.  It was nice.  After the child went to bed that night, she came into my connecting room with wine. She fixed two chairs together aiming out the large picture window overlooking Victoria Harbor (Google it... it's nice).  We talked for many many hours  (I will tell you that's one thing we do very well together, is talk).

 Eventually, she complained about her feet, so I started massaging them.  I wasn't paying attention to her facial expressions during my massage, but when I finally did, she had this "I want you now" look.   She realized this, and quickly stood up, shook it off and said that she needs to say goodnight. You could feel the desire in the air - it was so very thick in the air.  She says, “Michael, can I kiss you.  Just a good night kiss”.  The simple goodnight kiss, quickly became a 15 second make-out session, to which she had to 'shake off' again.  She finally shut the door between our connecting rooms.

  I sat there for about 15 minutes, paralyzed from what just happened.  I had just kissed the most beautiful women in the world. I couldn’t move. I then hear a knock at the door.  I'm brushing my teeth in the bathroom and she says she cannot sleep and if she could lay in my bed.  I agree and continue to brush my teeth.   I then head toward the already occupied bed playing the actions of expecting to simply lay and talk some more...  but she quickly made sure ‘other things’ would happen instead.   

Day 3:  I wake up to her big smile, a big kiss and big huge.  Breakfast, and great conversation.  A bus tour through the city, but no 'touching', no caressing, etc.  I thought this was strange because of the previous night together. In America, I'm used to sleeping with someone and then afterwards occasionally showing affection. I didn’t try to touch her… I was simply waiting for her to touch me. 

Before dinner this night, we talked and played 'foot-sy' together on the bed for hours... she would laugh and giggle and tell me, "I think I'll visit your room again tonight".   We suddenly realized we’re late for our dinner cruise reservation.  We miss the boat by just 2 minutes,  and she was upset, and she thought I was 'really' upset, but I wasn't (mis-communication).  I told her, "We missed it because we were playing 'foot-sy', that's a good reason to miss something"   But, she was already upset, she went to her room, shut the door and that’s it.

Day 4: Awkard morning (lots of silence, little eye contact) because of the mis-communication the previous night.  But, after an hour and no eye contact, I reach over and grab for her arm and caresses it gently. She looks at me and I give her a warm smile, she blushes, smiles and looks away.  She them comes to life again, playing with her child, taking pictures, happy again.  Lunch / communication was great.  Dinner / communication was great. The rest of the day was great.  But, still no public affection, but she again initiates the wine in my room after child goes to bed that night....   This time, we sit and talk all night until we start to see daylight.  It was fantastic.  We even have to 'Force' ourselves to say good-bye because of the next days schedule.   Our good bye didn't get very far before we were passionately on the bed together again.

Day 5:  Strange morning. Little communication. Visit to "Big Buda". This is when I became "the limo driver".  I thought it was very strange again because of the previous wonderful night before.  After this days events, we head back to hotel, and she then tells me to go back to the hotel by myself.  She wants to take her child to the store by herself.  Again, why this big change all the sudden from the wonderful night before?  BUT, I now know why - she was PMS-ing.  She had been since she first arrived. Didn't know this until 2 days later.  I decide to leave her to her own devices and go 'clubbing' by myself.  She knows I'm a little upset that she sent me away. I was upset because I had 2 dozen roses secretly delivered to her room with a song, "Have a little faith in me".  Little did stupid Michael know, that she was planning to come back in just 15 minutes and spend more time together.  Shoot myself in the foot.

Day 6: She finds the Roses sent to her room yesterday, but only finds them after waking up this morning.    She greets me with a big warm glowing smile. I want to reach out to her, but I don’t.  She stands there for a few seconds and I think I saw her about to reach out to me.  She tells me she liked the song.  Great breakfast conversation.

Off to Disney land.  As soon as we reach Disney land, Michael becomes the "Limo Driver" again. Only talking to me when necessary. That night, she again, initiates the wine in my room.  Early in to it, she tells me "Michael, I like you.  You have some small things but we can fix them".  This is when I tell her, "Yeah, I like you too, but, hopefully one day, we'll show more affection toward each other in public".  She gets really upset by this and leaves for the night.  No 'Long Conversations' tonight. 

Day 7: Michael the Limo Driver:. We visit another theme park.  She tries some 'connecting', by pointing at things and teaching me Russian words, maybe trying to make up for last night.  She is a little 'snippy' and 'quick' with me.   That night, dinner service in her room, then off to sleep.

Day 8:  First thing in the morning when she opens our connecting door, in most sweetest voice I’ve ever heard "Michael, I need some 'Women' things' "...    Ahhh... I see, she started her period.  She was just PMS-ing.  And, this day was a very good day.  We walked around the city, she even reached out and held my hand for about 5 seconds, and gave a warm glowing smile.  She was back to herself again.  No Limo Driver anymore.  We had a great conversation at dinner...  I was wonderful again. I took her to the airport late that night...  and on the way we talked about what we did that week, and what we enjoyed. 

We were walking through the airport, I said a phrase to her in Russian that I had practiced ("Thank you for visiting me in Hong Kong. I Hope to Visit you Again soon").  She smiled and laughed.  At the departing gate, we kissed and hugged, and I swear, she had the most endearing look in her eyes.  She asked me to write her as soon as I get back.  I turned and walked away.  Soon as I get back to USA, I text her, “I’m home and safe”, to which she replies, “I’m home and safe too.  The weather is cold and rainy”.

 Two days later. I write, "I miss you already", to which she replied, "Michael, do not say these things... it is way too soon to miss me".  I think it was about the 3rd or 4th day back when I found her dating profile page, that she had updated with new photos of her in Hong Kong.  That's when the knife first drove into my chest. 

It quickly went down hill from there, because every 2 or 3 days, she would log in again.  I was trying to keep it cool, because after all, they were still ‘turned off’ pages, but she could still log in, and look and talk to other guys.  Eventually, the physical pain started.  It felt like a rail road spike had sank deep into my chest.  It was there day and night.  I tried to keep cool.   Right before she was going to fly out, is when I found, "Vacation in St. Petersburg?" that was written exactly one week after from her trip with me.  It was at that point that the downward spiral really started to accelerate.   It was the very day that she was flying out, that the argument happened.    Then the apologies,  and finally, the 'wus trophy'.   It’s been 5 days since earning this trophy. And you know what?  She was PMSing again when she gave it to me.   

I keep going over and over in my mind, if I had just left her alone. Left her completely alone when she got back home.  But, I had to write to her almost ever 1 to 2 days.  I did this because I was getting nervous about her logging in every few days.  I should have just left her completely alone.


Here is one page where I read about RW withholding their feelings.  I have read it on other pages as well. 

http://russianwomentruth.com/why-its-hard-for-russian-women-to-initially-show-their-feelings/

[CDW]

I do not know about others, but if I were you, I would NEVER bring children to the first meeting.  Too much interruptions. 

Initial meeting should really focus on you and the lady, and it should be in her country.  You should spend time getting to know her and her family.  You don't need to be with her family all the time - maybe the 2nd day, maybe 2nd last day.


 

[mikeyUSA]

I do not know about others, but if I were you, I would NEVER bring children to the first meeting.  Too much interruptions. 

Initial meeting should really focus on you and the lady, and it should be in her country.  You should spend time getting to know her and her family.  You don't need to be with her family all the time - maybe the 2nd day, maybe 2nd last day.

Yep, she loves her child very much, and again, holding hands with her child was priority.  But, the trip immediately became about the child.  Only when the child was asleep did we get 'quality time'.   So, in the back of my mind, I think if I didn't invite the child, we would already be talking about how fast to get her marriage visa.  Oh well.  lesson learned.

Edit:  I mentioned our 'great conversations'.  you see, when two people like each other, they no problem at all stairing intently into each others eyes.  We did this all the time.  Each time we talked, we staired directly into each others eyes, focusing directly into them... before, during, and even after each word and sentence.  We have very very good eye contact.  I am no fool, but, this is why I think there were "feelings".  Even when we skyped for hours before our 'big trip', we would stare at each other and talk for hours. 

We did have some good quality time.  that much is for sure.  That's what bugs me so much.  It bugs me because the feelings weren't able to be ingrained deep enough and long enough.  Only when the child was asleep was the quality time there.     

And of course, she probably already was talking to 'another cute guy', that she really wanted to meet, before she finally made her decision.

[Gator]

Mikey,
 
 
 
Interesting story.  You got goldRW fever, thought you had found a heart of gold, but the assayer said fool's gold.  Sorry, but this happens a lot.  IMO, the outcome was more a result of incompatibility rather than your failing or her deceit.
 
I do hope this does not prevent you from trying again.  If you do try again, some Monday Morning Quarterback comments:
 
1.  Public Affection.   It seems that during the early days of your trip, she was very warm towards you.  Great!  However, you pushed her by wanting public affection.  Many RW are private about PDA.  They don't hold hands with RM so much as put their hand inside the RM's arm while walking.  Certainly no public kissing at her age (30s).  I believe most men would be contented with wild passionate nights vs. PDA.  And no woman likes to be pushed, particularly RW.  Also, RW appreciate strong men, men who are so confident that they do not need PDA.
 
2.  The Child.  Children are great.   However, a RW usually delays a man meeting her children until she feels comfortable with the man.  Few men meet a RW for the first time in a holiday resort, electing instead to meet RW at their home city or in a larger city if their own city is not so inviting.    To bring a child to a first meeting at a holiday resort is .....well I have never heard of any man doing this.  An 8-yo requires attention, much attention.  Did you enjoy your time with her child, or did you just go through the motions of pretense?  Mothers are evaluating men regarding the man's interaction with children.
 
3.   RW expect their men to know what to do.  It seems that you did a reasonably good job of planning your Hong Kong visit.  However, you played footsie, lost track of time, and missed a dinner cruise that she wanted.    Many RW will blame the man 100% even though the RW was also playing footsie.  It is their nature.  The man is suppose to lead.  He knows what to do so there are no problems.   And if a problem arises, he fixes it.
 
4.  It seems this woman likes to drink a lot (e. g., "calling you after drinking with friends").  Such is not normal behavior for a RW seeking foreign men.
 
5.  You mentioned a couple of times how beautiful this woman is.  A "9" or "10" in the FSU is as much trouble in general as they are in America.   They got and still receive plenty of attention from RM, some with more money than Mitt Romney.   Better to choose an attractive woman with a "9" character.
 
6.  I had a couple of other points such as your large desire to get married, but this is enough.
 
 
Don't beat yourself up anymore about this.  Take the lessons learned and apply them as you endeavor this fascinating venture again
 

[Vasilisa]

Mikey,
 
 
 
Interesting story.  You got goldRW fever, thought you had found a heart of gold, but the assayer said fool's gold.  Sorry, but this happens a lot.  IMO, the outcome was more a result of incompatibility rather than your failing or her deceit.
 
I do hope this does not prevent you from trying again.  If you do try again, some Monday Morning Quarterback comments:
 
1.  Public Affection.   It seems that during the early days of your trip, she was very warm towards you.  Great!  However, you pushed her by wanting public affection.  Many RW are private about PDA.  They don't hold hands with RM so much as put their hand inside the RM's arm while walking.  Certainly no public kissing at her age (30s).  I believe most men would be contented with wild passionate nights vs. PDA.  And no woman likes to be pushed, particularly RW.  Also, RW appreciate strong men, men who are so confident that they do not need PDA.
 
2.  The Child.  Children are great.   However, a RW usually delays a man meeting her children until she feels comfortable with the man.  Few men meet a RW for the first time in a holiday resort, electing instead to meet RW at their home city or in a larger city if their own city is not so inviting.    To bring a child to a first meeting at a holiday resort is .....well I have never heard of any man doing this.  An 8-yo requires attention, much attention.  Did you enjoy your time with her child, or did you just go through the motions of pretense?  Mothers are evaluating men regarding the man's interaction with children.
 
3.   RW expect their men to know what to do.  It seems that you did a reasonably good job of planning your Hong Kong visit.  However, you played footsie, lost track of time, and missed a dinner cruise that she wanted.    Many RW will blame the man 100% even though the RW was also playing footsie.  It is their nature.  The man is suppose to lead.  He knows what to do so there are no problems.   And if a problem arises, he fixes it.
 
4.  It seems this woman likes to drink a lot (e. g., "calling you after drinking with friends").  Such is not normal behavior for a RW seeking foreign men.
 
5.  You mentioned a couple of times how beautiful this woman is.  A "9" or "10" in the FSU is as much trouble in general as they are in America.   They got and still receive plenty of attention from RM, some with more money than Mitt Romney.   Better to choose an attractive woman with a "9" character.
 
6.  I had a couple of other points such as your large desire to get married, but this is enough.
 
 
Don't beat yourself up anymore about this.  Take the lessons learned and apply them as you endeavor this fascinating venture again

+1000000000000

[jone]

Okay,

She's obviously done this before and I am sure she will do it again.  Mikey, wake up and smell the coffee.  She had you by the gonads and after that you are hers.  Oldest trick in the book.  And the fact that she was willing to take it all the way only cemented the deal.  Child or no child, she knew exactly what she was doing.   She had skills. 

Hey, she might have been feeling out the relationship, but I have a deeper belief that she knows how to use men to get what she wants and needs and is willing to do whatever it takes.  She is one step away from selling it.

It is a shame she lives in a dump because the reality is that with her skills she should be much better off.  I'm sure quite soon she will be.

I had a girlfriend like that once.  She had me wrung inside and out and then back inside again.  The only time I ever gained control over the situation is when I treated her like an a$$hole.  She seemed to respect and like that for some reason.  As soon as I figured that out, I dropped her like a hot potato.  Now she is married to the worst a$$hole in the world.  She has been beaten and gone to jail for him, but still seems to be smitten with him. 

But you, as a wounded puppy dog?  Don't even go there.  Because that dog is one that I can guarantee won't hunt.

Great details though.  Have you ever thought of writing for Penthouse?

hehehe

-j

[mikeyUSA]

Interesting story.  You got goldRW fever, thought you had found a heart of gold, but the assayer said fool's gold.  Sorry, but this happens a lot.  IMO, the outcome was more a result of incompatibility rather than your failing or her deceit.

Probably, or maybe even a 'stroke of bad luck'
 
1.  Public Affection.   It seems that during the early days of your trip, she was very warm towards you.  Great!  However, you pushed her by wanting public affection. 
Nope... didn't 'push' it on here. in fact, I was waiting for her to show it to me.
Many RW are private about PDA.  They don't hold hands with RM so much as put their hand inside the RM's arm while walking.  Certainly no public kissing at her age (30s).  I believe most men would be contented with wild passionate nights vs. PDA.  And no woman likes to be pushed, particularly RW.  Also, RW appreciate strong men, men who are so confident that they do not need PDA.
She actually told me this during our 'long night' together.
 
2.  The Child.  Children are great.   However, a RW usually delays a man meeting her children until she feels comfortable with the man.  Few men meet a RW for the first time in a holiday resort, electing instead to meet RW at their home city or in a larger city if their own city is not so inviting.    To bring a child to a first meeting at a holiday resort is .....well I have never heard of any man doing this.  An 8-yo requires attention, much attention.  Did you enjoy your time with her child, or did you just go through the motions of pretense?  Mothers are evaluating men regarding the man's interaction with children.
Actually, I learned a lot of Russian words, and was able to interact with her daughter. In fact, at one point, I was teaching her some English words.  Also,  the child was actually helping me with the correct pronunciation of Russian words.  The child would start watching for me, waiting for me to come around the corner, to make sure 'I was still walking with them'.  The think the daughter started to feel a bond with me (a 'father figure' so to speak), and I with her.  I was sure that her daughter would get back to her homeland, and even start asking about me, "Where is Michael ".
 
3.   RW expect their men to know what to do.  It seems that you did a reasonably good job of planning your Hong Kong visit.  However, you played footsie, lost track of time, and missed a dinner cruise that she wanted.    Many RW will blame the man 100% even though the RW was also playing footsie.  It is their nature.  The man is suppose to lead.  He knows what to do so there are no problems.   And if a problem arises, he fixes it.
 
4.  It seems this woman likes to drink a lot (e. g., "calling you after drinking with friends").  Such is not normal behavior for a RW seeking foreign men.
No, she doesn't like to drink.  I don't think so anyway.  Not sure, but, I'm okay with it if she does.
 
5.  You mentioned a couple of times how beautiful this woman is.  A "9" or "10" in the FSU is as much trouble in general as they are in America.   They got and still receive plenty of attention from RM, some with more money than Mitt Romney.   Better to choose an attractive woman with a "9" character.
Since getting back, people tell me she's a strong 8, soft 9. Of course, I see her as an 11
 
6.  I had a couple of other points such as your large desire to get married, but this is enough.
It's not a large desire to get married... but a desire to finally find a wonderful women in my life. I have read about RW, and I like what I read.
 
 
Don't beat yourself up anymore about this.  Take the lessons learned and apply them as you endeavor this fascinating venture again
Yeah... of course, because I still have a little hurt, I still hope that she will come back after my 'butt licking'.

[Gator]

Yeah... of course, because I still have a little hurt, I still hope that she will come back after my 'butt licking'

She ain't coming back.  You tried, yet you did not win her heart.   Why would it work the second attempt?
 
Be a man.  Your whining of regret (and it is whining) will only make you feel miserable.   Contact some other RW.  This one is history.   She ain't coming back. 

[Doll]

People, what " showing affection in public" are we talking of? What exactly do you mean?

[Doll]

Ah, I see- holding hands and hugging)))
OMG! A  Russian woman on her first date with a 8yo child! Of course, there will be no affection in public.
One more thing, Mikey. You are "floored" because you think she keeps dating. Then you need to read more on this forum- everybody is recomended to date many women. So does she- keeps her options open.
I hope we don't want to apply double standards to men and women?
Read the other threads where men are going to meet many girls - 3 -4-5 cities and women "from the list".
I guess, it is ok for both men AND women.
 

[Faux Pas]

Day 3:  I wake up to her big smile, a big kiss and big huge.  Breakfast, and great conversation. A bus tour through the city, but no 'touching', no caressing, etc.  I thought this was strange because of the previous night together. In America, I'm used to sleeping with someone and then afterwards occasionally showing affection. I didn’t try to touch her… I was simply waiting for her to touch me. 

AH! So you've heard and learned the story and the Greatness of the Dr. Sammy Ho?


mikey, you are bit dude and bit good. As glorious as this woman's outward appearance was, trust me when I say, if you stay in this game, you'll find one with both the outward and inward is as glorious as any woman you've ever met.

Your butt kissing may have been your downfall, may not have been as well. What you need to assess is where you are now and where you are going. If you take these liberties, buying trips for women you have never met at home with the local babes, just chalk it up as another trip that didn't work out. If you don't take these liberties with the local babes then, ask yourself, WTF were you thinking and how could you reasonably expect any other outcome?

Everybody doesn't have to take the lesson you have but, now that you've taken it, have you learned from it? Don't fall in love with pretty sexy pictures or the idea of being in love. These are real relationships and because you meet online offers no short cuts. In fact they offer in most cases extra work. The women are real, real good and real bad. Don't change yourself to date them. Make sense?