From Heaven to Hell... with a broken heart.

[Jumper]

mikey

If this was in reverse,
a girl you just dint hit it off with..
and you were relaying here that the details are and that shes looking at your profile etc..
and pushing for an answer , and after getting the answer ,
still trying to sort out what happened between you (after only one week meeting)


A dozen guys would be screaming 

****RUN !! stage 5 clinger alert!!!***
****RUN !! stage 5 clinger alert!!!***
****RUN !! stage 5 clinger alert!!!***
****RUN !! stage 5 clinger alert!!!***


To her, at the moment, you are that *stage 5 clinger*
even if its smarts a bit think that way or you feel your actions dont justify the moniker


You really think a girl you arnt that into ,
that acts a bit oddly, feels shes a *stage 5 clinger*?

of course she doesn't!!



Try to take it in the amusing way i intended..I'm not trying to offend !
just trying to make you laugh and forget about the whole ordeal.

[mikeyUSA]

Na na na.. not offended.   BTW, I just got a date for tonight.. Yeah!...

And again, as far as you guys thinking this whole, "He's a creeper and she smelt it".   I really don't think she did.  Nor was I in Hong Kong.   Again, I've read many relationship books, and this is a textbook case of, "You need to leave her alone, so she will start to miss you.  Be 'less' available.  If there is no 'doubt', then there is no passion".      Of course, me finding her profile did not help my actions, and only caused me to 'step up' my effort, when in fact, I should have started moving away.    It was only in the very end, that I lost it and tried to force an answer, that I scared her.

Now, this date I have tonight.... I have already looked at her profile, and she is STILL LOGGIN IN!    WHAT DO I DO?

[mikeyUSA]

still trying to sort out what happened between you (after only one week meeting)

After 4 months.  Don't forget, skype can also do some things to a person too.

[Daveman]

After 4 months.  Don't forget, skype can also do some things to a person too.

It ain't skype that screwed you.. it was (I'd bet my left , er, over roast beef cold cuts) your daydreams.  Skype would probably have helped a LOT if you had really listened and accepted. Remember, the mind cannot tell the difference between real and imagined, especially so if those dreams are vivid. There's not really a discernible difference, in the mind's perception,  between lemons and limerence  So, I'd bet that during this time, you had dreams every day or nearly so about life with this woman, how she'd be in the perfect relationship, etc etc...  So, in YOUR mind, this is not a one week meeting but a four month relationship (which, obviously, it wasn't).  Communication with her reinforced this, even with her weather reports, because her actual behavior which conflicted with the portrait you painted - your mind just couldn't accept that so rationalized that away --- since you really don't/didn't know her much at all, you painted or projected traits to fill in the gaps or even painted over contradicting behavior.

[mikeyUSA]

It ain't skype that screwed you.. it was (I'd bet my left , er, over roast beef cold cuts) your daydreams.  Skype would probably have helped a LOT if you had really listened and accepted. Remember, the mind cannot tell the difference between real and imagined, especially so if those dreams are vivid. There's not really a discernible difference, in the mind's perception,  between lemons and limerence  So, I'd bet that during this time, you had dreams every day or nearly so about life with this woman, how she'd be in the perfect relationship, etc etc...  So, in YOUR mind, this is not a one week meeting but a four month relationship (which, obviously, it wasn't).  Communication with her reinforced this, even with her weather reports, because her actual behavior which conflicted with the portrait you painted - your mind just couldn't accept that so rationalized that away --- since you really don't/didn't know her much at all, you painted or projected traits to fill in the gaps or even painted over contradicting behavior.

Beautifully put.   man, I am so very glad I found this forum.   

[CDW]

Mikey

Don't worry I also have a broken heart !!!  I had a conversation with a lady today.  (I am Gato)

Gato: Hiiiiiiii
Rica: helloooooooo
Gato:  How are you?
Rica: im not ok my daughter still sick
Gato: sorry to hear it
Rica: i dont know to do now
Gato: I am not a doctor
Rica: i want to take her hospital but my fund not enough
Rica: can u help me?
Gato:  I wish I could help you, but with my budget, I am saving it to train pigs to fly.

(she logged off)

Lucky you, Mikey, only 1 lady had broken your heart!!   I have had too many ladies breaking my hearts, because I chose to spend my money on training these pigs to fly !!!

[Patagonie]

Na na na.. not offended.   BTW, I just got a date for tonight.. Yeah!...

And again, as far as you guys thinking this whole, "He's a creeper and she smelt it".   I really don't think she did.  Nor was I in Hong Kong.   Again, I've read many relationship books, and this is a textbook case of, "You need to leave her alone, so she will start to miss you.  Be 'less' available.  If there is no 'doubt', then there is no passion".      Of course, me finding her profile did not help my actions, and only caused me to 'step up' my effort, when in fact, I should have started moving away.    It was only in the very end, that I lost it and tried to force an answer, that I scared her.

Now, this date I have tonight.... I have already looked at her profile, and she is STILL LOGGIN IN!    WHAT DO I DO?

 

You are right for what you said about the "missing feeling" (read my posts and you will find more information, to do this you go to the profile and click on posts).

You have a date and she is still logged before you go ? What is the problem guy ? She has never met you yet and she must stop all her contacts, tell about you to her family, go to the jewel shop to think about the ring of your future marriage ?
You have a problem with this damned internet.
Logged ? it proves barely nothing. Computers are often switch on all time, many sites don't properly manage the off/on logging so you don't really know. And anyway you are supposed to chase too, so why are you focusing on this ? Because you want a girl focussing on you at first sight like her first little baby, you being her unique source of light and food ? Are you a child ?

In the beginning of an intimate relationship with a woman it is fine to assess  how many men she is gaming at the moment to understand where you are going, especially if you  know that you can have true feelings for her. Perhaps you would do such a thing earlier to prevent you to enter in an intimate relationship knowing that she  only wants a fuckfriendship (or you are only one in her billfold). At this stage lurking her connection is not only inaccurate, but inefficient and put you in the wrong attitude : you are the guy who has nothing interesting to do in his life rather than lurking connections of any women he knows. Do you think this is attractive for women ? It reminds you a story no ? Do you learn from your previous experience ? At which level the pain will do the job ? I suppose you have a high limit to pain, perhaps it is a drug as emotion.

[Shadow]

Yeah, maybe some things I say maybe creepy to you guys on this forum, but I was not 'creepy to her.  Believe me, if I was "creepy" to her, she would have dumped me a long long time ago.  But again, when I say that I was 'pushy' to her,  what that means is,  She knows that I like her, and when I got back, I would email her about every 1 or 2 days with, "Hi, I hope you a fine and your cold is better".    No, I did not say "please please please be with me".   It was instead very subtle emails.   But, about once a week, I would say my code words "I do not miss you", to which one time she actually said, "Michael, I told you not to say such words... but of course, I think maybe I start to miss you too". 

Only after 3rd week, did I call her and not really yell at her, but tell her, "it is my culture, you will understand, I need to know right now yes.no.maybe.  NO, You will tell me now".     And, of course, that scared her because I was trying to force  her.

   And by being "pushy", all she means by that, is that I was trying to get her to say that she misses me too.

That was long after she had told you she liked you but did not love you.
After that masseage you should have stopped all romantic contact.
By continuing you became a stalker to her.

[Gator]

 
 
In a matter of just a few pages, the description of Mikey has gone from butt licking to creepy and pushey.
 

As far as I am concerned, Mikey is just a guy who let the dream take over, made a bit of a fool of himself, and is now trying to justify things in his mind so he doesn't feel like such a BIG fool.  Nothing psychotic there in the least.

And you are professionally qualified to make such an assessment vs. my background as an engineer/scientist/mathematician. Nevertheless Mikey's behavior does not seem "normal." 
 
While there is much distance between  normal and psychotic, Mikey seems at least one standard deviation along the continuum.  Or is it just relationship immaturity?  At nearly 40-yo it seems abnormal to not understand what it means when a woman says "no,"  to not accept when a relationship is "over," and more importantly to infer a relationship when one never existed.
 
How does he become normal?  He says he reads a lot of dating books.  Based on this episode, the books did not help. 
 
Perhaps it is just relationship immaturity.  If so a sincere RW could be ideal for Mikey, but not one like the woman he dated.  I suggest a strong RW who does not run away and instead is committed to the relationship and not to herself, understands his relationship immaturity and explains directly how he needs to improve when he does something she does not like.  Because Mikey is not a good listener, she must have perseverance.
 
Let us add it up:  strong,  not self-absorbed, understanding, direct and persevering.   All of us men need such a woman. 
 

[LAman]

but..but...but....she was a '!2' !!!!!!

[Daveman]

 
In a matter of just a few pages, the description of Mikey has gone from butt licking to creepy and pushey.
 
And you are professionally qualified to make such an assessment vs. my background as an engineer/scientist/mathematician. Nevertheless Mikey's behavior does not seem "normal." 
 

First off, let me state unequivocally that there is nothing professional about my interaction on this forum.  In fact, I'm many years removed from that possibility were it even possible, which it is not, to provide such an evaluation based upon a few words on an internet forum which are isolated from a more thorough life context.


That being said, "normal" does not necessarily equate to "most healthy approach" and may only be assessed contextually (that which was 'normal' for Nazis are considered abnormal when viewed in a less myopic context). So, in the proverbial nutshell, normal is really little more than a contextual label based on a specific view of something (data, group, formula, etc.), e.g., "normal for the times", etc. and to have deviations from the norm is normal. 


Mikey is merely floundering in the bushes a little off the more well beaten path. 

[mikeyUSA]

You are right for what you said about the "missing feeling" (read my posts and you will find more information, to do this you go to the profile and click on posts).

You have a date and she is still logged before you go ? What is the problem guy ? She has never met you yet and she must stop all her contacts, tell about you to her family, go to the jewel shop to think about the ring of your future marriage ?
You have a problem with this damned internet.
Logged ? it proves barely nothing. Computers are often switch on all time, many sites don't properly manage the off/on logging so you don't really know. And anyway you are supposed to chase too, so why are you focusing on this ? Because you want a girl focussing on you at first sight like her first little baby, you being her unique source of light and food ? Are you a child ?

In the beginning of an intimate relationship with a woman it is fine to assess  how many men she is gaming at the moment to understand where you are going, especially if you  know that you can have true feelings for her. Perhaps you would do such a thing earlier to prevent you to enter in an intimate relationship knowing that she  only wants a fuckfriendship (or you are only one in her billfold). At this stage lurking her connection is not only inaccurate, but inefficient and put you in the wrong attitude : you are the guy who has nothing interesting to do in his life rather than lurking connections of any women he knows. Do you think this is attractive for women ? It reminds you a story no ? Do you learn from your previous experience ? At which level the pain will do the job ? I suppose you have a high limit to pain, perhaps it is a drug as emotion.

Hey, I was joking when I said that.   It was poking fun at myself.

[mikeyUSA]

So last night, while I'm on my date, she texts me again saying that 'I hope that I will live my life and be fine'.   of course I did not reply, I haven't said anything to her in over a week.  Last night, for the first time in while, I see this women in the store, and she is H.O.T HOT.   She wasn't my date, but my date wasn't bad looking either. 

So now, the shoe is on the other foot.   I wonder now, if I should block her, to keep her from 'repeatedly pulling at my heart strings'.   Yes, I admit, I wanted to reply, but I didn't.   Yes, it brought up some emotions, but I quickly tried to flush them out of my mind, realizing what I have learned from everyone here.   This women, what a roller coaster ride I have been on.

I was starting to ask you guys, why she did this?  But I wont.  I am done with her... I do not need an answer.   I am starting to think that after she voted on over 1000 men in a week, maybe she is not right in the brain?   Maybe it is a good thing that it did not work.    Who in there right mind votes on 1000 men in a week!

[newjason]

Mikey,
simply put, this is not doing to be easy. No one ever stated that It will be a cake walk.
IMO you are not over her yet, and going on dates right now is not giving those women a fair chance because you are not over the last one.
Getting a text while on your date should clearly prove that point.
No one can tell you how to get over her.
I think you invested a lot of time and money and emotions in this girl and feel like you did not get back what you gave.
Well sometimes there is no good reason for things. That's just how life is, it can be a fickle bitch, but understand that fact will help make you into a better person.
The first step is to stop asking yourself all these "why" questions.
Even if you discover why, or the truth, it's not going to give you closure me thinks.

If you want to know about getting over someone,

Read this:  it's my story.   http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14463.msg290366#msg290366

You are not the first one to feel this way, and you wont be the last.
If you need some help or ideas getting over her, then ask. I'd be happy to help.

[Slumba]

My suggested response to the text would be something like "Yes I will be fine. Thank you for your part in my life, although now, that part is past."  Let's her know you got the text, that you thank her for the education, and that you will not be contacting her anymore.

[mikeyUSA]

My suggested response to the text would be something like "Yes I will be fine. Thank you for your part in my life, although now, that part is past."  Let's her know you got the text, that you thank her for the education, and that you will not be contacting her anymore.

Well, I am reading newjasons thread... and it is good.   But at this point, to move on, probably any communication at all will let her know that "I am still here".  So, how to break free, to send her a goodbye, or to just stop all communication at all.   To stop all communication, would probably drive her more and more?  ...or maybe to say a final goodbye, will make her move on and help michael to finally heal his wounds.  Such a choice...    From one problem, to the next.

Also, I have another date with the girl last night.  And also another one with a new girl next week for lunch.  So yes, you see michael is not such an ugly man...    Of course, I am not 'fully healed', but I'll tell you that I am right back on my horse again.  Last night, when I saw that women in the store, it made me realize, that this RW that I met, she is NOT the most beautiful women in the world.   I mean, Wow.    I was trying to finish my purchase, so that I could run out and ask her out, but it was too late.   I wonder if she has a profile that I can stalk...   (of course, I'm joking).   

[mikeyUSA]

Mikey,
simply put, this is not doing to be easy. No one ever stated that It will be a cake walk.
IMO you are not over her yet, and going on dates right now is not giving those women a fair chance because you are not over the last one.
Getting a text while on your date should clearly prove that point.
No one can tell you how to get over her.
I think you invested a lot of time and money and emotions in this girl and feel like you did not get back what you gave.
Well sometimes there is no good reason for things. That's just how life is, it can be a fickle bitch, but understand that fact will help make you into a better person.
The first step is to stop asking yourself all these "why" questions.
Even if you discover why, or the truth, it's not going to give you closure me thinks.

If you want to know about getting over someone,

Read this:  it's my story.   http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14463.msg290366#msg290366

You are not the first one to feel this way, and you wont be the last.
If you need some help or ideas getting over her, then ask. I'd be happy to help.

Jason, thank you very much for sharing your story.  I am starting to think, and hoping that I am wrong, that american men seeking a RW, will always go through his first mistake, and learn a very hard lesson.     The warning signs, the gifts, the 'spoiling them'.    Wow...   I am not in Russian, and I do not know RW, but I do know American women, and I....   I am hard pressed to now learn that maybe RW are very smart people... Like a "CIA", as someone said before.

I am one of the few men, that has learned his lesson the hard way.  I am not the first and will not be the last.    I am actually going to classes at a local church, it is a class to learn how to love yourself first, and then, everyone else can live there lives by themselves.  It is called "Celebrating Recovery".    I will tell you, I have prayed more in the last month more than I ever have in my life, and it is said, "God will give you what you need, not what you want".  So, He is wiser than us.   

I want to be honest with everyone here on this forum... when I first started this thread, i was hurt... there was pain... the girl of my fairy tale, had broken my heart.   And since my classes and listening to everyone here, I have learned so very much.  I wish I could thank each and everyone of you in person and shake there hand.  I do not have the pain anymore, and my heartbreak, sure it is just a little bit now, but it is almost gone.  Sure, I learned what I did wrong.  Maybe it could have worked out with us, but because I was so mis-informed, it did not.  There is another lady out there for me, and it will work better, because the meeting with the RW, it was more of an incompatibility that my mistakes that I made.   It is like dating someone from across the street, sometimes, people are just not compatible.   

EDIT:  I now know, that it is very important to meet them in their hometown, and to have 'backups'. And... that you should never be 'mikeyed' (gamed), and to never give such grand gifts.   If a women likes you, there will be no doubt, and, she will be fine on her own, until the wedding.

[jone]

One more thought that may assist you. 

If you present yourself as a 'Good Friend' instead of someone seeking a relationship or a wife, it gives you the opportunity to discern what the woman is there for without having to give away the family treasures.  Moreover, in your own mind, if you are looking for friendship first, you will not be so willing to yield the types of things you gave to this woman.

If you're on a MOB website and chatting it up with someone, but play the friendship card, everyone still knows what you're there for.  Explain that you have been taken to the woodshed by a woman and that you really could use friendship.  It is a wonderful opening for conversation.

The women who are really there to find their sould mates will totally appreciate this.  And it gives them an honest appraisal that you are not going to fall in love with a picture or a skype address.  Instead you will learn about her, while at the same time staying at arm's length.

-j

[Vaughn]

So, how to break free, to send her a goodbye, or to just stop all communication at all.   To stop all communication, would probably drive her more and more?  ...or maybe to say a final goodbye, will make her move on and help michael to finally heal his wounds.  Such a choice...    From one problem, to the next. 

mikey, you are creating your own problems with your tendency to second guess, and your false hope that something that never really was can be salvaged, even if it's in the form of a memorable goodbye forever. Cease all communication with this lady. Immediately. You yourself are holding back from truly moving on.
 
All the stroking you've received here helps you to get over the pain, but only you can resolve not to get emotionally vested in a two-dimensional "relationship" in the future. Forgive yourself for having done that, and decide not to allow the soft heart you possess to ever carry you down that same road. I am not suggesting you adopt a "tough guy" demeanor as that's certainly not your persona - but to keep your passionate enthusiasm in healthy check, and that can be a difficult skill to embody when it's not part of who you are.
 
Are you an approval seeker? Does approval, even from a total stranger, feel especially good?
 
The course you are taking at Church is a viable start, but until you really demand of yourself a different approach to relationships in general - an approach that may feel foreign to you at first, involving self-esteem and dignity, you might just see similar results rear their ugly head in times yet to come.
 
 
jone offers excellent hands-on advice just above. Read it and reread it.

[mikeyUSA]

So let me ask this....    I want to know something.  I am 40.  I do NOT want to find some 25 year old RW.  I want to find someone about 33-39, someone in my age range.   Because I do not know the culture, what is the chance, that I will find someone in the age, that will honestly want to put 'effort' in to finding a good man, and not just 'salami games'.    I am still attracted to the thought of finding a RW, but, I do not want this crap.  Sure, I know the warning signs now, but, if a women of that age is in Russia, what is the possibility?  Maybe I should just give up hope and try to find an american women?  Are there really RW that are willing? (I know, stupid question).     I have read that if you are a RW and are over 30, the chances of finding a man in russia is amost gone....  is this true?   In america, that age is around 40 for a women.    After I "pick up the pieces" I might and might not try to find another RW.   But your input would help.

[Daveman]

So let me ask this....    I want to know something.  I am 40.  I do NOT want to find some 25 year old RW.  I want to find someone about 33-39, someone in my age range.   Because I do not know the culture, what is the chance, that I will find someone in the age, that will honestly want to put 'effort' in to finding a good man, and not just 'salami games'.    I am still attracted to the thought of finding a RW, but, I do not want this crap.  Sure, I know the warning signs now, but, if a women of that age is in Russia, what is the possibility?  Maybe I should just give up hope and try to find an american women?  Are there really RW that are willing? (I know, stupid question).     I have read that if you are a RW and are over 30, the chances of finding a man in russia is amost gone....  is this true?   In america, that age is around 40 for a women.    After I "pick up the pieces" I might and might not try to find another RW.   But your input would help.

To honestly answer the question, you need to answer a question for yourself... why are you interested in FSUW?


There isn't one Russian Woman who was cloned into carbon copies. Granted they do tend to share some similarities but they're certainly not all the same.  And of course you can find a family oriented partner.


For them to find a man in Russia after the age of 30 is easy as pie.  Finding a marriage minded single man may be a bit tougher, and if she has a child it's tougher raised to the power of tougher.

[Gator]

I want to be honest with everyone here on this forum... when I first started this thread, i was hurt... there was pain... the girl of my fairy tale, had broken my heart.   

Every man has felt such pain.  However, it usually derives from  the failure of a relationship lasting much longer than a holiday in Hong Kong.
 
Just think how much pain you would have felt if your Kamchatka woman had told you she loved you, enjoyed PDA, and bled you for a $2000/mo allowance before saying "Nyet" a week before the visa interview.   That has happened, happened many times.
 
If you are interested in getting to know a FSUW, you should date one already living in America.  There are many of them.  Some are here as products of a divorce resulting from the fact that they did not know each other well before marrying.

[mikeyUSA]

To honestly answer the question, you need to answer a question for yourself... why are you interested in FSUW?


There isn't one Russian Woman who was cloned into carbon copies. Granted they do tend to share some similarities but they're certainly not all the same.  And of course you can find a family oriented partner.


For them to find a man in Russia after the age of 30 is easy as pie.  Finding a marriage minded single man may be a bit tougher, and if she has a child it's tougher raised to the power of tougher.

I have dated many many american women.  All of them, they would easily tell you, that "Mikey is a very good good man".  But, for some reason, it doesn't work.   So one day, I read a story, a wonderful love story about a RW and WM.  So I researched, and also found that such a quality in a RW would be perfect for what I want.  I wanted a women that seeks 'family' over money.  Someone that loves her husband, more than the ability to "go out and drink all night with her girlfrends (It actually happened to me.  I was at home, babysitting the child, and she came home at 7am, still high on drugs).   

 So you see, I actually fell in love with the thought of a RW before I actually met the women that I started to talk to.   I believed in a 'fairy tale'.   i will tell you, just like my ex-girlfriends will tell you, I am a wonderful man.  I am not the "creepy guy" painted here.  I simply fell in love with a fairy tale, and it did not work...

[Shadow]

[Belvis]

So, how to break free, to send her a goodbye, or to just stop all communication at all.   To stop all communication, would probably drive her more and more?  ...or maybe to say a final goodbye, will make her move on and help michael to finally heal his wounds.

How to make it in a cool way? Just send her a goodbye with gratitude for a good time during HК trip and forget her.

So let me ask this....    I want to know something.  I am 40.  I do NOT want to find some 25 year old RW.  I want to find someone about 33-39, someone in my age range.   Because I do not know the culture, what is the chance, that I will find someone in the age, that will honestly want to put 'effort' in to finding a good man, and not just 'salami games'. 

You're an attractive option for familiy oriented  RW in 30-35 yo range. And  almost a prince for RW over 35. if not looking for 9-10s, they are a different story. All culture problems will be removed by honest and extensive communication.