Some help,opinions,feedback wanted

[ghost of moon goddess]

Yea, but he should have a good health insurance with  coverage of all conceivable surgical procedures. Though it costs certainly cheaper than 20 grands.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt ??? 

[Belvis]

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt ??? 

Nope. I'd not survive.   

[ML]

 
Just don't plan to meet all of them . . . at the same time.   
 
Keep reading, and welcome.

As others have stated . . . why not?
There must be some precedent to the idea of a 'threesome.'

[calmissile]

As others have stated . . . why not?
There must be some precedent to the idea of a 'threesome.'

Yea, a nuclear explosion.  LOL

[Noch1]

As others have stated . . . why not?
There must be some precedent to the idea of a 'threesome.'

that would 5 some, with four FSU Girls who may not want to share.
Sounds like fun on paper, in reality likely not so much

[Eduard]

I would advice as you will be alone and not with a "coach" who is organizing to avoid to know each women really well.

There are two mains problems to know too much women before the trip:

I'm not sure if you are advising to not know them "too well" or not to meet too many women? I would agree that seeing too many on a short trip may get too hectic, confusing and logistically difficult. But the idea of not trying to get to know them as much as possible before travelling half way across the world to meet sounds a bit strange IMO.

[lonedrake]

I think he was saying....dont fall in love.....before you meet.

 No threesomes for me. Look at that show sister wives....why would you want to try and make 4 women happy?

My goal is just to keep one happy most of the time.....if thats even possible. lol

[Eduard]

I think he was saying....dont fall in love.....before you meet.

 No threesomes for me. Look at that show sister wives....why would you want to try and make 4 women happy?

My goal is just to keep one happy most of the time.....if thats even possible. lol

I love it! A man with realistic expectations! 

[Patagonie]

I'm not sure if you are advising to not know them "too well" or not to meet too many women? I would agree that seeing too many on a short trip may get too hectic, confusing and logistically difficult. But the idea of not trying to get to know them as much as possible before travelling half way across the world to meet sounds a bit strange IMO.

You understand me well :
I advise to not know them too much.
And i advise to see many. Now how many ? two per day is a wise number.

And BECAUSE you don't know them too much it is easy to see many. IF you chat with them too much you will have many problems because ladies will expect you to do a WOVO (or WMVO).
And the guy is too much about a fantasy with ONE woman that he will be not emotionnaly available to see the others (so if it doesn't work he wins a travel by endeavor).

I came to  the conclusion that the FIRST problem in international dating is that men write. If you stop to write and think more about where you went to go and prepare you to put your ass in a plane you would avoid 90 % of problems (fake appointements, scammers, fake correspondance with agencies, feelings totally out of place, save of a lot of money). But on an other hand i have learnt on the field that it is better to exchange FEW mails before the trip just to check 1/ her interest 2/ the basics to sort more
Problems of logistic ? Travelling half the world ? It is because guys usually write to any lovely butts they like on sites that you make crazy travels from a city to an other. It is only because these guys have NO discipline. So there are no problems of any type, just choice the city you want to go. And it is full of advantage, and don't tell me in a big city (many east cities are more than half million of people) that the lady who matches you doesn't exist.

[Eduard]

You understand me well :
I advise to not know them too much.
And i advise to see many. Now how many ? two per day is a wise number.

And BECAUSE you don't know them too much it is easy to see many. IF you chat with them too much you will have many problems because ladies will expect you to do a WOVO (or WMVO).
And the guy is too much about a fantasy with ONE woman that he will be not emotionnaly available to see the others (so if it doesn't work he wins a travel by endeavor).

I came to  the conclusion that the FIRST problem in international dating is that men write. If you stop to write and think more about where you went to go and prepare you to put your ass in a plane you would avoid 90 % of problems (fake appointements, scammers, fake correspondance with agencies, feelings totally out of place, save of a lot of money). But on an other hand i have learnt on the field that it is better to exchange FEW mails before the trip just to check 1/ her interest 2/ the basics to sort more
Problems of logistic ? Travelling half the world ? It is because guys usually write to any lovely butts they like on sites that you make crazy travels from a city to an other. It is only because these guys have NO discipline. So there are no problems of any type, just choice the city you want to go. And it is full of advantage, and don't tell me in a big city (many east cities are more than half million of people) that the lady who matches you doesn't exist.

Pat, I see your point. And I think that it does make sense especially when you are already in the country or in your case it can also work since you are only 3-4 hour flight away and can easily visit on weekends. However doing it this way when you live a 24 hour trip away it doesn't make that much sense IMO.

[Patagonie]

Eduard i also understand your.
But i think (if possible early in the process) it could be a good advice to tell to your customers to limit their search to one city (two maximum if the guy has 17 days off minimum).

I guess that you advice to every man to have a backup each time, but if there is no chemistry with the first lady, generally the emotional interest with the second is low, so if you are stucked in this city for one week if both meetings (imagine you see the first lady day one and she leaves you after two hours. THe second you see day 2 is not appealing because. So you have five days left).
You need to rebound asap (especially for us guys who have generally two or three weeks off per year).
All trips show that love can emerge from anywhere. The field shows me that is very difficult to hire girls on free sites and see them in five days. So you need to see agencies (and for i read you don't do it, but it is the logical answer to the problem). You would tell me that agencies are a pain in the ass, robbers .... You are right, in 90 or 95 % of time.
But now Eduard if you know WHERE to go in advance, if you know there are two or three agencies worthly in a city, you can offer to your customer a valuable backup to him and rebound asap (just be sure to contact agencies BEFORE the week end, tuesday for the week end is the best, because the week end is the MOST important, girls can be free (you know Eduard)). There is nothing more stupid for me than a guy stucked in the city without any appointement, alone, and worse digesting all his feelings after four months of correspondance with a women whom he had met two hours (no chemistry but the guy is freak of her).

[Eduard]

Eduard i also understand your.
But i think (if possible early in the process) it could be a good advice to tell to your customers to limit their search to one city (two maximum if the guy has 17 days off minimum).

I guess that you advice to every man to have a backup each time, but if there is no chemistry with the first lady, generally the emotional interest with the second is low, so if you are stucked in this city for one week if both meetings (imagine you see the first lady day one and she leaves you after two hours. THe second you see day 2 is not appealing because. So you have five days left).
You need to rebound asap (especially for us guys who have generally two or three weeks off per year).
All trips show that love can emerge from anywhere. The field shows me that is very difficult to hire girls on free sites and see them in five days. So you need to see agencies (and for i read you don't do it, but it is the logical answer to the problem). You would tell me that agencies are a pain in the ass, robbers .... You are right, in 90 or 95 % of time.
But now Eduard if you know WHERE to go in advance, if you know there are two or three agencies worthly in a city, you can offer to your customer a valuable backup to him and rebound asap (just be sure to contact agencies BEFORE the week end, tuesday for the week end is the best, because the week end is the MOST important, girls can be free (you know Eduard)). There is nothing more stupid for me than a guy stucked in the city without any appointement, alone, and worse digesting all his feelings after four months of correspondence with a women whom he had met two hours (no chemistry but the guy is freak of her).

Pat, we'll have to agree to disagree on the strategy.
1. most of my clients don't have 17 days vacation to spend in the FSU. 10 to 14 days is the most common stretch that we go for.
2. Before we go we always have about 4 very solid prospects plus 2 or 3 back ups just in case.
3. In an unlikely event that we have a day or two in between scheduled dates we have no need to go to any agency and to deal with their crap. My clients already have profiles on all major free Russian dating sites so all we need to do is get on the computer and contact a bunch of women. And in 3 or 4 hours he has a date for that evening. Even one date for lunch and another one for dinner is possible. There is absolutely no need for agencies.


I have found that when you get to know a woman very well communicating with her by email and Skype it is pretty unlikely that the date will end in a couple of hours. Most of the time it takes a couple of days spending the whole day together to really figure things out and at the end of day two it is usually clear whether there is chemistry and he should take it to the next step or that we need to move on.


Sometimes we also find that a woman isn't quite the same person in real life as she presents herself during the communication stage. This happens not because a woman is trying to intentionally deceive a man but simply because sometimes we don't see ourselves objectively and unintentionally misrepresent who we are. And also there are women with psychological and even psychiatric issues. I'm not a mental health professional, but after spending a day or two chatting with a woman being a native Russian speaker who grew up in the FSU I can usually sense that something is off. It's good to figure that out in a day or two rather than spending a few months dating the wrong person or even marry them and find yourself in a seriously bad situation.
Chatting on the phone or Skype will help identify the most obvious scammers and prodaters but it won't be enough to recognise other issues mentioned above. Spending face to face time sight seeing, chatting, meeting friends and family, shopping for groceries, dining, going dancing usually gives me a pretty good idea of a person. 


Nobody (not even a native Russian speaker) can identify potential issues with a person without spending face time with them, observing their body language, their interaction with other people, etc.


The bottom line is that by using this method almost all of my clients were able to find their mate in just one trip. They normally go again once or twice to spend time exclusively with the woman they connected with on the first trip just to make sure.


Pat, I'd say that what ever method works for you - use it. My method worked for me (married for 8 years with 2 kids) and worked for my guys just as well. You have an advantage of being in a close proximity to the FSU so this does change the game to a degree.

[Patagonie]

Pat, we'll have to agree to disagree on the strategy.
1. most of my clients don't have 17 days vacation to spend in the FSU. 10 to 14 days is the most common stretch that we go for.

UNFORTUNATELY because 17 days (two weeks + 2 days (for travel) let you 3 weeks end which are the most important to know a lady.

2. Before we go we always have about 4 very solid prospects plus 2 or 3 back ups just in case.

4 SOLIDS propects it is wise

3. In an unlikely event that we have a day or two in between scheduled dates we have no need to go to any agency and to deal with their crap. My clients already have profiles on all major free Russian dating sites so all we need to do is get on the computer and contact a bunch of women. And in 3 or 4 hours he has a date for that evening. Even one date for lunch and another one for dinner is possible. There is absolutely no need for agencies.

YES I BELIEVE YOU, with the help of a terp, it is possible to get a date after half a day. It is true that if a woman know that a valuable man is in her city, and if you contact 10 or 20 it is sure that few will answer quickly to meet him. They know that they have nothing to loose and they not show it but they are often curious.


I have found that when you get to know a woman very well communicating with her by email and Skype it is pretty unlikely that the date will end in a couple of hours. Most of the time it takes a couple of days spending the whole day together to really figure things out and at the end of day two it is usually clear whether there is chemistry and he should take it to the next step or that we need to move on.


IT IS AN ADVANTAGE AND NOT. if your customer don't like it he would perhaps return asap at his hotel and spend minimal time with her. Of course you should'nt do such a thing because it is rude, but the fact is that sometimes you know after 30 minutes that (even if you have communicated few months) nothing will happen.


Sometimes we also find that a woman isn't quite the same person in real life as she presents herself during the communication stage. This happens not because a woman is trying to intentionally deceive a man but simply because sometimes we don't see ourselves objectively and unintentionally misrepresent who we are. And also there are women with psychological and even psychiatric issues. I'm not a mental health professional, but after spending a day or two chatting with a woman being a native Russian speaker who grew up in the FSU I can usually sense that something is off. It's good to figure that out in a day or two rather than spending a few months dating the wrong person or even marry them and find yourself in a seriously bad situation.

Chatting on the phone or Skype will help identify the most obvious scammers and prodaters but it won't be enough to recognise other issues mentioned above. Spending face to face time sight seeing, chatting, meeting friends and family, shopping for groceries, dining, going dancing usually gives me a pretty good idea of a person. 

I DO AGREE you normally, and especially "coached" by a professional sort all scammer and prodater. Normally any prodater would not continue contact asap she realises you are involved. So in my opinion you sort all this crap with a success of 99.99%. But of course you are not psychologist. And you have also some people who are attracted the wrong people for them and you cannot do anything because it is a pattern which they are sometimes not even conscious.


Nobody (not even a native Russian speaker) can identify potential issues with a person without spending face time with them, observing their body language, their interaction with other people, etc.

I ABSOLUTELY DO agree meet for real and spend time is the key. I rely more and more on my intuition now, conforted by my experience and my knowledge of people. You need to also to know well. But i imagine your customer are in average fourty, normally men know them at this age.

The bottom line is that by using this method almost all of my clients were able to find their mate in just one trip. They normally go again once or twice to spend time exclusively with the woman they connected with on the first trip just to make sure.

HERE IF i do the math, by spending few days maximum with one lady, i am not sure that automatically this trip is a winner for the future anytime you go with a customer. Before being commited, i had had few relationship with FSU women and the outcome happened  for reasons which needed more time to be known.

Pat, I'd say that what ever method works for you - use it. My method worked for me (married for 8 years with 2 kids) and worked for my guys just as well. You have an advantage of being in a close proximity to the FSU so this does change the game to a degree.

YOU ARE RIGHT. And it weights in the balance when i said to a lady, if all is fine i can come and spend one week with you every two montsh. They perfectly know that if they are in love they would see the guy they are not foolish. If you cannot do that you need to take days off or sign a K1 early. Or you are a week wonder. 

[Muzh]

Will he need that, right now? Before his first trip?
Or that much for his first trip?
 

Just to say hi, once, to a Russian babe. 

Edit: Noch1, the  was not directed at you.

[silverfox]

When you find a woman you are interested in, don't spend a long time getting to know her before you make plans to go meet her. They don't like dragging out the time before meeting. Rent an apartment when you go. About $50 to $60/day. Hotels are expensive. Many of the younger women with know some English. Try to learn some of the customs etc. about the country you are going to. I went to the Ukraine and used an interpreter. She gave me some very good advice on how to conduct myself. She told me most Ukraine women don't like aggressiveness. They don't hug when they first meet you, be patient and let them make the first move. I followed her advice and it worked very well. I met a lady I was very impressed with. The meeting ended with, it was very nice meeting you, good bye. About 15 min. later, I get a phone call from the interpreter telling me that the lady was very impressed and asked the interpreter to set up another date. I date was set for the next night. Play it cool and if the lady is interested she will let you know.
If you find one and you hit off, then plan to go back and spend some time with her in 4 or 4 months. If she is really interested, she will share the same apartment with you when you return. She might even suggest buying some food, so you can eat at the apartment instead of eating out all the the time. A sincere Ukraine woman is all about helping her man conserve money.

[Eduard]

When you find a woman you are interested in, don't spend a long time getting to know her before you make plans to go meet her. They don't like dragging out the time before meeting. Rent an apartment when you go. About $50 to $60/day. Hotels are expensive. Many of the younger women with know some English. Try to learn some of the customs etc. about the country you are going to. I went to the Ukraine and used an interpreter. She gave me some very good advice on how to conduct myself. She told me most Ukraine women don't like aggressiveness. They don't hug when they first meet you, be patient and let them make the first move. I followed her advice and it worked very well. I met a lady I was very impressed with. The meeting ended with, it was very nice meeting you, good bye. About 15 min. later, I get a phone call from the interpreter telling me that the lady was very impressed and asked the interpreter to set up another date. I date was set for the next night. Play it cool and if the lady is interested she will let you know.
If you find one and you hit off, then plan to go back and spend some time with her in 4 or 4 months. If she is really interested, she will share the same apartment with you when you return. She might even suggest buying some food, so you can eat at the apartment instead of eating out all the the time. A sincere Ukraine woman is all about helping her man conserve money.

Hi Silverfox,
I was wondering how long have you been married to that Ukrainian lady now?

[calmissile]

When you find a woman you are interested in, don't spend a long time getting to know her before you make plans to go meet her. They don't like dragging out the time before meeting. Rent an apartment when you go. About $50 to $60/day. Hotels are expensive. Many of the younger women with know some English. Try to learn some of the customs etc. about the country you are going to. I went to the Ukraine and used an interpreter. She gave me some very good advice on how to conduct myself. She told me most Ukraine women don't like aggressiveness. They don't hug when they first meet you, be patient and let them make the first move. I followed her advice and it worked very well. I met a lady I was very impressed with. The meeting ended with, it was very nice meeting you, good bye. About 15 min. later, I get a phone call from the interpreter telling me that the lady was very impressed and asked the interpreter to set up another date. I date was set for the next night. Play it cool and if the lady is interested she will let you know.
If you find one and you hit off, then plan to go back and spend some time with her in 4 or 4 months. If she is really interested, she will share the same apartment with you when you return. She might even suggest buying some food, so you can eat at the apartment instead of eating out all the the time. A sincere Ukraine woman is all about helping her man conserve money.

Agree 100%
I did find it helpful to chat with many on my short list on Skype before making the trip.  It helped sort out the personalities and prioritize what order to visit them.  You can also ask some tough questions to see how serious they are about marriage and immigration, their history, baggage, etc.
Not foolproof but in my opinion time well spent.  I agree, once you have locked onto a few good prospects, make the trip ASAP.

Your comments about lack of intimacy in the beginning are not well understood by many newbies.  The ones that jumped into bed right away were not interested in a long term relationship, just a curious roll in the hay with a foreigner.  It took about a week before my current G/F warmed up.  I was ready to give her the boot, but all the other signals were positive, so I waited it out.  I am very glad I did.  She is a real gem, just doesn't get intimate until she knows you well enough to decide to go to the next step.  Your advice to let the woman decide when it is time to get intimate is true gold advice.  It has to be a real problem for guys going only for 2 weeks vacation and planning to meet multiple women.  Another reason to have a lot of Skype time beforehand.  2 weeks might be enough time to court 2 women (a primary and a backup), but my revised opinion is that it will take more than one week for any gal that you want to take seriously and she responds in the same way.  The 'candy shop' approach might be good for a sex tourist but inadequate for trying to find a great women to be your life partner.

BTW, I have been experimenting with several Skype translator programs to determine which one I like best.  A real-time two way translator for Skype can turn a one hour conversation using a cut and paste translator into a 10 minute chat.  After a few days I will post on a new thread my findings. So far the best one I have found is a paid program, but it is very reasonable.  All of the free ones have characteristics I do not like or are unreliable (such as stopping to work in the middle of a conversation).  LOL

[ML]

She told me most Ukraine women don't like aggressiveness.

Well, I would have to disagree with you here.

Of course there are women (and men) all over the spectrum with respect to any variable.

And there is probably a big difference between the age groups.

However, I have encountered quite a few FSUW who very  much like the aggressive man.

I have had a few tell me that I should 'insist, because we like it when you insist.'

[Daveman]

If you find one and you hit off, then plan to go back and spend some time with her in 4 or 4 months. ...

Or, if one is unsure, just take the average and go then! 

[Daveman]

Well, I would have to disagree with you here.

I'll see your disagree and raise a "definitely not my experience".


I think though, that "aggressiveness" is similar to "creepy" - if she likes you at first sight, then you pretty much have to eat a kitten and throw babies from a window to screw it up, but if she doesn't, then you'll be aggressive, creepy, or a number of other possible death traits.

[Jack]

yea, me to Daveman, another of the many experiences I disagree with ML about.

[SANDRO43]

If you find one and you hit off, then plan to go back and spend some time with her in 4 or 4 months.

A dire dilemma that would make Hamlet, Prince of Denmark, shiver in his doublet .

[lonedrake]

  I am moving forward in my plans to head to the FSU.  I have already made a few mistakes. I started contacting women that I was interested in without seeing where they lived. Once I looked at the map I realized there was no way I was going to be do that much traveling. Another problems is that I have been contacting a couple to often...everyday.

 From what I understand no visa is needed to visit Ukraine....so I decided I want to go there. So now I have been searching for women from Donetsk and Lugansk who speak at least some english...or so they say and have just been putting them in "my favorites" I plan to contact them after I buy tickets. From reading on here its usually the cheapest to purchase tickets 3-4 weeks in advance. My plan is to fly from Minneapolis to Donestk and visit there and then go to Lugansk by taxi or rent a car. Airfare looks to be about 1,200.00

 I would like to rent a car. I looked at some of the cheaper rentals (50-60 per day) but they are those little tiny cars that I would never be caught dead in here. I would be to embarrassed. But....I have no clue how Ukrainians view those little cars. Maybe they think they are the bomb? Some help here would be appreciated.

  My tenative plan is to go for 9 days. The one woman I really want to meet(as of today) lives in Lugansk. I would plan to visit her last. I have no plans for an interpretuer....but I understand Jack lives around there somewhere so if things to to out of control (ie lost) I think I could call him or reach out to the RWD community for some help.
 I have purchased a camera and set up skype. Have not used it yet.

 I understand its best to buy a cheap phone over there as my phone will probably not work? Will my laptop work fine over there?

  I am kind of a "wing it" guy and this may be a "crash and burn"  or a "one trip wonder" but I am sure I will remember it. It will definetly take me out of my comfort zone.

 One concern I do have that I need to fugure out is that I am addicted to Diet Mountain Dew. I Drink like 8-10 cans a morning. Without it I get bad headaches....so I either need to ween myself off it or come up with a caffine pill that I can take with. Any advice from the caffine addicts?

 .

 The woman in Lugansk says I can get flats for around 40. Does that seem accurate? By the way...before joining this forum I had never even heard of flats. Is it just the same as motel?
 

[Vaughn]

Flats are a European way of saying "apartment"....
 
Don't advertise how much you're carrying over, pal.... too much information. If you choose, you can modify your post....

[Eduard]

Well, I would have to disagree with you here.

Of course there are women (and men) all over the spectrum with respect to any variable.

And there is probably a big difference between the age groups.

However, I have encountered quite a few FSUW who very  much like the aggressive man.

I have had a few tell me that I should 'insist, because we like it when you insist.'

I agree with ML. Although there are all kinds of women in the FSU one of the biggest differences between AW and RW is that on average RW expect a man to take charge and be the aggressor. AM have been conditioned to sit back and wait for a woman to make the first move or be perceived as "too aggressive" and "creepy". Definitely not the case in the FSU where a man is still expected to be a man. If a RW likes a man and is there (on a date) with him for the right reasons she expects him to make the first move and be "convincing" and a little pushy. Many RW really like that.

However I can see how a man being a man (the way it used to be in the US before Feminism) can be perceived differently in a MOB agency setting where much of the time women go on dates with men they don't know or have no real romantic interest in. Obviously it would seem creepy to a woman who is there just because she is getting paid to go out with him and has no clue who he is if a guy tries to go for a kiss or a warm hug (because he assumes that she's been writing all those warm letters to him for a few months and that they got something real going on).
It is understandable how a man who has no real world FSU dating experience and only experienced MOB agency dating would come to this conclusion.