First timer headed to Ukraine

[Turboguy]

Anyways the female translator and the female lawyer(not sure if she is actually) kind of gave me a hard time about doing a K-1 when it is so easy and simple to marry in Ukraine. Somehow either from before and/or added on then, the story I hear is that so many Ukrainian women on the K-1 are just prostitutes and the embassy interview is horrible and chances are 50/50 to get approved...plus super hard. Language tests etc.

That is a bunch of bunk.  The approval rate on a K-1 is very high and usually if there are complications, it is a case of someone trying to pull a fast one on the Embassy.
 
There are pros and cons both ways.   The advantages of a K-3 are that she will have her 10 year green card on arrival in the USA and she can have a wedding with her family and friends present and that usually means a lot more to the woman than the man.   The advantage of a K-1 is that it gives her a chance to see what her life would be like here before she takes a step that is difficult to undo.   The approval rate is not a consideration. 
Lots of people do a K-3 and I am sure it will work fine for you.  I don't think people use the K-3 anymore.  I believe it is now a IR-1/ CR-1.  You can still do a K-3 but it is much slower.
 

[Faux Pas]

My research and knowledge is about the k-1. My beliefs are the same as yours. It was literally 3 against one and I did not have any counterpoints to their "facts". When we walked out of the office she was convinced the K-1 is not the way to go. To difficult and to risky. I have not looked into it yet as I was flying all day....but from what I remember the only real differences,between the K-1 and K-3, we will have is that we will get married in Ukraine....and it will take an extra 3-5 months before she can move over here. But I explained this to her and she prefers this than taking a 'chance" on the interview. its one of those issues than even if I win...I still lose.


ML....I know you are a smart man....but your reading comprehension sucks. I say this not just from this post ,but also from past posts.

I don't have a dog in your hunt here LD. As is the norm for any advice I dole out on these boards. I would strongly suggest the K-1. Why? Because you can do it yourself. There are loads of accurate information on visajourney as well as forum help and it is very helpful should you need it. If you can fill out your taxes you can file the petition. It really isn't brain science. There is a number of forms, proof of the relationship, pictures, plane tickets, what have you. As TG mentioned approval rate is high. Her interview is really a breeze if her past and the relationship is genuine. It really is your quickest and possibly safest route.

I had forgotten something TG mentioned, her 10 year GG on arrival. Her insistence on the K-3 would make me a bit suspicious but, I am a suspicious sort. The K-3 will take longer for you two to be together. You will have to provide more documents and apostiles and that seems to be a bit of a problem now. I advise you to look closer at the K-1 and compare the two more closely

[Hammer2722]

I gotta agree with TG and Faux Pas. The K1 will be easier by far. From the others that have married in Ukraine and posted their experiences with govt there, it ain't no walk in the park I assure you. 

[ML]

ML....I know you are a smart man....but your reading comprehension sucks. I say this not just from this post ,but also from past posts.

OK, well maybe I was too quick with my comment about her English.  I didn't read everything, just the part where you talked about the translator being there.  Sorry about that!!   

However, this is the first time in my entire life that my reading comprehension was not absolutely perfect.  Just ask my Mother.

[lonedrake]

TG,FP,Hammer.......I agree with all of this.  What I have to contend with is two "professionals" and friends advice which is the best way to go.   Convincing me that the K-1 is the better way to go is a no-brainer.   

 Still time though. I cannot go back until Nov. and you cannot file a K-3 or CR/1 until you are married.




 

[lonedrake]

However, this is the first time in my entire life that my reading comprehension was not absolutely perfect.  Just ask my Mother.

Smart and funny!!!



I forgive

[Faux Pas]

TG,FP,Hammer.......I agree with all of this.  What I have to contend with is two "professionals" and friends advice which is the best way to go.   Convincing me that the K-1 is the better way to go is a no-brainer.   

 Still time though. I cannot go back until Nov. and you cannot file a K-3 or CR/1 until you are married.

You can start on the K-1 now. Gathering all of your requirements, have them submitted and in process before you get back in Nov. Go take a look at visajourney. Think about it and look it over. Of course you'll need her papers to put with the application. Seriously, it's not "that" big of a deal. It's a pain in the ass but, doable. You can hire an attorney but, you'll still have to gather everything for them. If she'll will get you what you need and Meest/Pony Express ect. to you, you'd be light years ahead of a K-3

[GQBlues]

...But I explained this to her and she prefers this than taking a 'chance" on the interview....

Whoa! Taking a chance on the interview? There's a viable reason why beneficiaries get checked, cross-checked, documented and interviewed. What exactly what do the 3 ladies know (about her) that you don't? Aren't you a bit curious to find out what exactly that is, man? If you'd rather not, shouldn't you at least take comfort in knowing we have a system that would actually do this for you which you're entitled to take advantage of?

Heck, tell her to send whatever documents she have and get it translated yourself through someone else other than those 2.

...its one of those issues than even if I win...I still lose.

...and you're cool with this? This is just but one of the things that men should be sorting out during the getting to know period, no?

LD, if this is what you want, man...more power to you. Good luck and get hitched pronto! IMO, something doesn't seem right in this.

[lonedrake]

I believe I should clarify things a little bit.

 I was in Ukraine for 6 days. The first two days we stayed in Kiev. Days 3 and 4 were in at her town/apartment. I was able to meet and spend time with her best friend,daughter and granddaughter.Everything is almost exactly as I expected.

On day three we filled out all of the information need for the filing of the K-1. I needed the G-325a for her and intent to marry letter. I have all of her information and documents.(marriage and divorce along with copy of passport) Everything was exactly as she has said all along. I see no need to hire a lawyer for this process.  The only problem we had was she does not have a printer and we needed her documents translated. On day five (sunday) we found a place that does translations and decided to get documents translated there. I wanted to have everything so when I made it home I could send it in this week.

 We bring her documents in Monday morning. They said they could get them done that day(for an extra fee of course)

 So we go back at 7pm. This is where I am not 100% clear on what was said. The "lawyer" spoke a little English. The way I understand it is Marta only has copies of the documents(not originals) and the lawyer would not sign off on them as she can not say for certain that they have not been modified. I was thinking that maybe they wanted more money to do this,but I never got any hints that I should pay more. It is also my understanding that the original documents will be very difficult/expensive for Marta to get. I have no idea if this is true. I do know the lawyer said "this is what I do for a living"

 They put fear into her about the K-1 process,especially the interview. Plus she has two friends married out of country(Germany and Norway) that she has talked to.

So.....somehow I must tell her.

Two professional Ukrainian women.....Wrong
Two friends.......Wrong
Herself......Wrong

Me....never been married.....Right.


My work is cut out for me. She knows I am on this forum and visa journey and I told her I was going to do a bunch more research and get opinions from those who have more experience than I.

Her understanding of the process is simple. Wife vs. Girlfriend. When she goes to interview and she is wife....what can they say?  Oh..you are wife!   vs......she goes as girlfriend.....Ohhhhhhh   you are just girlfriend? Why you want to go to USA?

GQ brings up a good point and does make me curious to know all the facts.I will talk to her about this today.

[lonedrake]

a pic or two

[lonedrake]

Kiev clock

[lonedrake]

I believe Lada means love

This is why I tell Marta I am going to buy her a Lada....but not just any Lada.....it must be an antique Lada....1977 to be exact

This one was close. But a little to new

[cc3]

I don't have a dog in your hunt here LD. As is the norm for any advice I dole out on these boards. I would strongly suggest the K-1. Why? Because you can do it yourself. There are loads of accurate information on visajourney as well as forum help and it is very helpful should you need it. If you can fill out your taxes you can file the petition. It really isn't brain science. There is a number of forms, proof of the relationship, pictures, plane tickets, what have you.

Two questions, FP.

 First, why plane tickets? Aren't the Ukrainian border control entry and exit stamps in one's passport sufficient proof of travel to UA? Hardly anyone gets plane tickets in this era of 'e-ticketing'. Used boarding passes would be much better proof, if needed.

Second, wouldn't a Ukrainian marriage certificate be a lot more proof of serious intent (if applying for a spouse visa instead of a K-1)?

[mendeleyev]

and it will take an extra 3-5 months before she can move over here. But I explained this to her and she prefers this than taking a 'chance" on the interview. its one of those issues than even if I win...I still lose.

As Turbo says, the K-3 while designed to be quicker by Congress, is actually much slower because of the fraud factors.

She will still have an interview with a K-3. Nothing changes except the numbering on essentially same paperwork. Background check, interview, etc, all the same as a K-1.

If the Embassy smells a rat, she won't be coming no matter if you did a K-1 or K-3. The K-3 doesn't give an automatic "right" that you can take a foreign spouse/family member into the USA.

[mendeleyev]

Second, wouldn't a Ukrainian marriage certificate be a lot more proof of serious intent (if applying for a spouse visa instead of a K-1)?

No because from the Embassy/ICE perspective it reduces the chances to avoid a mistake. The K-1 has the advantage that if things aren't right then she is out of the country in 90 days. If they approve a K-3 and things go wrong, now the mistake is amplified and much more complicated.

The US government is aware that some guys believe the K-3 will get them around some requirements of the K-1. It won't, but some are under the impression that it will. Thus the government can sometimes be more suspicious of intent when a K-3 is used.

[Faux Pas]

Two questions, FP.

 First, why plane tickets? Aren't the Ukrainian border control entry and exit stamps in one's passport sufficient proof of travel to UA? Hardly anyone gets plane tickets in this era of 'e-ticketing'. Used boarding passes would be much better proof, if needed.

Good question that I dont have a specific answer for except, you can not provide too much proof of the relationship but you can provide too little. AFAIK, they won't accept a copy of your passport. Proof of each trip fitting a timeline for developement of a relationship is considered. Itineries, boarding passes or ticket receipts are all good proof along with pictures of you together on each trip. They need your relationship proof laid out, in order and easy to understand. Otherwise you'll likely have delays for more information.

Second, wouldn't a Ukrainian marriage certificate be a lot more proof of serious intent (if applying for a spouse visa instead of a K-1)?

Another good question that I don't have a direct answer for. I am not overly familiar with the K-3. I haven't been through one of those. I would say not really. Keep in mind she is going to get vetted by the USCIS standard no matter which visa you petition for. The K-3 because of that will require more proof and documents. The K-3 immigrant will in most cases receive a 10 year greencard with the 3 year marriage stipulation and thus scrutinized more carefully.

[Gator]

Lonedrake,
 
Quick question.  Do you have everything in line to marry in Ukraine this trip?  There are some administrative hurdles.
 
I agree with the sentiment expressed by many that there is no procedural advantage regarding likelihood of approval if you marry and file a spousal petition. 
 
Turbo gave the basic benefits of the fiancée and spouse approaches.  In addition, processing time is a consideration.  Processing times vary considerably.  Usually the difference between a spousal (I-130) and fiancée (I-129F) visa are not significant.  However, I looked at current USCIS Processing Time Statistics and noticed something that should alarm you.   
 
Here are dates reported by Visa Journey members:

 
 
The following is from VisaJourney analysis of dates reported by USCIS (see right side of this page -   http://www.visajourney.com/content/times ).  If you marry and happen to be assigned to California Service Center, the processing time presently is 412 days just to clear the service center.  After that you have maybe another 90 days before the consular interview.    Vermont and Texas are 228 and 146 days.   The California delay makes no sense, and should shorten as the center adjusts its priorities.  However, that is where it is today.  If you did marry, the delays suggest that you should file a K-3 as well as a CR-1 petition in case you encountered such delays (this will cost more and you need duplicate documents and forms as well).
 
I do not give this information as a reason for deciding whether to marry or not in Ukraine during your current trip.  I give it as an excuse, if you need one,  for explaining to your woman why she should immigrate as a fiancée. 

[mendeleyev]

California Service Center, the processing time presently is 412 days just to clear the service center.

Excellent information, Gator.

I would point out that the California centre has always been the slowest and has a reputation for losing documents more often than any other of the rest.

Years ago they lost our case paperwork no less than three times, thus our wait time was years instead of months. At one point USCIS even issued a green card and sent it to the Arizona Immigration office but failed to notify us in Moscow. So it sat in Arizona for ever a year and eventually expired because we failed to appear and pick it up. How we were to pick up a green card in Arizona while in Moscow was a mystery, and how someone with no permission to travel to the USA was supposed to pick it a green card in Arizona up was also a mystery. All the while we were being told by California to be patient, there was a backlog, but they'd get to it eventually.

It took a Congressman directing his immigration liaison to unravel the mess or they might have continued to delay our case for several more years.

[GQBlues]

TG,FP,Hammer.......I agree with all of this.  What I have to contend with is two "professionals" and friends advice which is the best way to go.   Convincing me that the K-1 is the better way to go is a no-brainer.  ...

Good point. The only thing I would ask is, which of them are in the US, or which of them is married to an American?

...Still time though. I cannot go back until Nov. and you cannot file a K-3 or CR/1 until you are married.

A little over 3 months. Use it wisely, LD. Again, good luck!

[Wayne]

Getting married in Ukraine requires certain documents and procedures. If you were married before, you will need a certified copy of your divorce papers, which is notarized and apostilled--which must be done in USA!
 
This needs to be translated into Ukrainian (not Russian). You need a certified translation which is notorized. This consists of a lot of pages sewn together with thread.
 
Next, you will need to go in person to the US Embassy in Kyiv and get your letter on non-impediment to marriage, translate into Ukrainian and notarized (by the embassy staff).
 
Then, you take all of that to the Ministry of Justice office in Kyiv, fill out some forms, and get their official permission to marry.
 
Additional requirements are determined by the exact ZAGS office where you intend to marry.
 
Next step, you and your fiancee go together to ZAGS and fill out some forms. Ok, there are fees for all these steps. Getting them done faster costs more in bribes.
 
There is a minimum waiting period of 30 days from the time you turn everything into ZAGS and when you can get married. That could be much longer than 30 days depending upon the particular ZAGS. Some people have managed to skip the 30 days and get married right away. It depends upon who you know and how much you are willing to bribe.
 
After you are married, you can fill out the I 130 immigrant visa form for your wife. Since her daughter is already 21 years old, you cannot petition for her at all. You do not have to file a K-3 at all. The CR-1 visa for a spouse is processed by USCIS seperately from all the other immigrant visas now, because it is not part of the visa quota for Ukraine. You send the application to a completely different address (unless you screw up!).
 
The CR-1 visa for a spouse takes about the same time as a K-1. The K-3 route takes longer.
 
After the petition is approved by USCIS, it goes to NVC. There is a big difference between how NVC processes a K-1 compared to a CR-1 or IR-1.
 
No matter what, you need evidence of your relationship.
 
After your wife has lived in USA for at least 3 years, (not the normal 5) she can apply for US citizenship. After she has obtained US citizenship, she can petition for a immigrant visa for her daughter and grandaugter. The daughter should also try for the visa lottery. The waiting time for a visa to become available for Ukraine is probably about two years, maybe longer?
 
So, are you currently in Ukraine? Do you have all the required documents with you?
 
One advantage of the immigrant visa is no adjustment of status. She will have her green card right away, can work, have social security number, etc. You only get the 10 year green card right away if you are married for at least two years.
 
 

[Hammer2722]

LD, my guess as to why the Ukrainian translators were recommending you get married is about money. Think about it. To marry in Ukraine, you are going to need WAYYYYY more documents translated in to Ukrainian than if you were to file a K1. This means more work and more money you will have to pay them for translation services.
 
Its a no-brainer that they will tell you and your fiance anything to get you to change your minds. I suggest you try and find another translator. Perhaps someone that your gal doesn't know all that well....

[Wayne]

The woman at the tranlation office is probably not a lawyer--but a notary!
 
She is correct for documents required in Ukraine. However, USCIS usually does not require any orginal documents. For Ukraine applications, documents do not need to be translated into English if they are in Ukrainian or Russian.
 
But NVC has completely different rules! They do require some orginal documents, certfied translations into English, etc. For a K-1, you bring all the required papers to the embassy; for an immigrant visa, all the papers are sent to NVC and preapproved by them. Therefore, there is very little chance that your wife would be turned down by the embassy.
 
So the Ukrainian notary is right that a wife has very little chance to be turned down at the visa interview.
 
I also did not mention you need to have your US passport with a certified and notarized tranlation into Ukrainian before you go to ZAGS.  Also, your fiancee has a list of her documents.
 
A lawyer only complicates this proceedure and costs a lot of money. You still need to provide all the documents. You would not use an attorney from Ukraine anyway.

[lonedrake]

 I am back in Minnesota. Not able to go back until Nov.

 She has other info than I have read on here.....and some advice......which carries a lot of weight. . Compromise is essential, and that is the route I will take

Thank you for the information you gave me. But I was in a state institution in Ukraine, where getting married couples from Europe and other countries. We can not get married in another city, only in Kiev and only in this place. There I was given a copy of the document where it says what documents you need from the American who has never been married and in order to marry a Ukrainian. In Ukraine, the people who work for many years and marries a lot of people from different countries know that you need to get married to a Ukrainian. Yes, you can ask yourself in the state that you need to get married to a Ukrainian, and you can also make the document that you are not married, but you will need to make this document and in the Ukraine at the American embassy and put APOSTILLE in the Ministry of foreign affairs. Also, you will need to translate into Ukrainian passport and put an apostille. You can do this in Ukraine. You've never been married and do not need from you a lot of paperwork. Then when I need a visa you will need to make a document about your accounts. And you need a lot of documents from me. And I have them on Monday would have. Today I made a document that I needed and called the Translation Bureau and told to cook my documents, because on Monday I'll come get them.If we get married in the Ukraine it would be easier to have a visa and you have to understand that we are not getting married because I need a lot of documents, and because I was then it will be easier to have a visa. Please do not forget about it.Steve, we have laws and to live by the laws that exist in our countries and not listen to what other people write people.

[lonedrake]

LD, my guess as to why the Ukrainian translators were recommending you get married is about money. Think about it. To marry in Ukraine, you are going to need WAYYYYY more documents translated in to Ukrainian than if you were to file a K1. This means more work and more money you will have to pay them for translation services.
 
Its a no-brainer that they will tell you and your fiance anything to get you to change your minds. I suggest you try and find another translator. Perhaps someone that your gal doesn't know all that well....

 It is possible...but I never got that feeling from them. Neither of us knew the translator .

[cc3]

I am back in Minnesota. Not able to go back until Nov.

Congratulations, Steve. Good luck...I'll be following your path of getting married in UA as soon as I liquidate my Colorado real estate.