Update - 13 years later

[northkape]

Yes Gator,, I will have my hands full

As always,,,, smile

I'm sitting here this morning in Brovary32's kitchen alone, with some free time for writing.
She is at work for only a few hours (I hope), and her daughter is at school.
Even though I knew it would be futile, I offered to compensate her, for the loss of todays income.
But, same as with me, it isn't always about money.........

The last two years have been among the most extreme ever, in regards to having my hands full..
Divorcing with Lena, and effectively being the single caretaker of my twin boys,,,
Partly taking care of my old mother, after my father died last summer,,,
While at the same time loosing interest in my present business,,
for then to start something entirely new again, along with the large amount of new stuff to learn.
And instead of working hard, to save my assets, for avoiding going bankrupt,,,,
I have spent an enormous amount of time, for finding a new and exiting woman in my life.

Yes, her 10 year old daughter is an open book of conflicts for me to handle, when (if) she and her mother comes here.
But she greeted me, by hugging me tightly, when I arrived at their flat, so Im off to a good start.
And Saturday evening, when we were to drive to Kiev, I collected one more feather in my hat...
She and her mother had an argument just before we were to leave, and she got seriously pissed off.
Sitting down in the sofa and turning on the TV, telling her mother she would stay at home.
I didn't want to interfere, hoping they would be able to play out the conflict between them on their own.
After a while her mother gave up, telling me, that we would go alone without her daughter.

I felt sorry for leaving her behind, and decided to make a try, even though I'm unable to communicate with her.
As she don't understand English, and my Russian is below "basic".
After a minute or so, I got her smiling again, and a few minutes later she reluctantly agreed to come along.
Looking back, I'm glad I tried, as the three of us had a great evening together, with a lot of laughter and fun.

On our way to Kiev....
I wanted to stop, for photographing one of the barricades built for protecting the roads into Kiev.
Not just any barricade, but a special one, built with a touch of humor and artistic flair.....
But, little did I think about, how my act of photographing "defense secrets" was viewed,
from the side of the young soldiers on duty this evening.
Well, one such young soldier grabbed my arm from behind, and signaled to me, to give him the camera.
As I didn't wan't to give him the camera, and he wasn't strong enough to take it by force,
he winked for another soldier to come help him.
While I kept telling them, that I'm only a tourist from Norway, Brovary32 came to the rescue.
After a little arguing from her side, they accepted confiscating the memory card only,,,
and later after a little more arguing from me also, to simply delete the photos and let us go.

As they walked away, I got the photos from inside the car when passing the barricade......

Brovary32 was shocked,,,, smile
And the episode was included in all of her following phone calls.....

Click on them,,, to make photos larger....

 

We spent most of the evening strolling along the "war zone" on Khreschatyk down to Maydan,
as Brovary32 and her daughter hadn't visited here since the violence started.

 

After having a coffee / wine, and something to eat at the end of the evening in a cosy basement restaurant,
we were greeted with the sky opening in a thunder storm of pouring rain, when starting our walk back to the car.
I told the girls to wait under cover, while I would run for the car to get it closer to were they were standing,
but they decided, to make a run for it together with me instead.
We all got soaking wet, but had some "weird dancing" trying to avoid the waterholes, making it more fun than terrible.

As with many of the women I met with, Brovary32 looked much better in real life, than her photos on the dating site.
Sunday morning the following day, was actually the only time, I saw her putting an effort into really looking her best.
We were going to attend an arrangement, where her daughter and a lot of young girls would participate,
so she probably wanted to look her very best, among all the beautiful young mothers showing up with their girls.
Here is a photo in her kitchen before leaving, being busy with what I consider to be "a woman's best friend" in her hand.

 

At least I consider it to be her best friend, (it is glued to the side of her head around the clock)

 

[Lily]

What a beauty! There is something romantic in her looks.
 
Yes we do put some efforts in looking our best!
 
Actually, I hate cellphone, and use it only when there is no alternative...

[Anotherkiwi]

...Actually, I hate cellphone, and use it only when there is no alternative...

Lily, I think that makes you unique amongst FSU women! 

[northkape]

Thanks Lily,,
Yes, i do agree with you, "What a beauty",, smile

A then a little update from the far away north....

Me and Brovary32 are doing well, we have met three times in the last two months,
chatting around the clock, and Skype a couple of times a week.
Now we are making plans for marrying in September, but first we will spend the rest of the summer together.

When school ends at the end of next week, I'm driving all the way from here again, together with my boys,
in the same car that I used in Ukraine last summer, but this time I plan to leave it there till after we are married.
(if everything works out as planned)

We will go on a weeks vacation together in the Carpathian mountains with our kids, her daughter and my boys.
For then to return to Kiev, to meet with Lena and her parents, as boys will stay all summer in Ukraine,
partly with me and Brovary32, partly with Lena and most of the time with their grandparents (Lena's parents).

Lena and Brovary32 are both exited to meet, as they want / understand the need, for a friendship between them.
After leaving boys with Lena and her parents, we will drop off Brovary32's young daughter at her parents,
in the south east of Ukraine, before going for a week or two alone to the Black Sea, probably Odessa.
Then I will have to catch a flight back home for a week or so before returning to Kiev.
If everything in our relationship is still "floating" at the end of the summer, Brovary32 will go with me to Norway,
before we are returning to marry at Zags Brovary in September.
But before then, she needs a drivers license and much better English, her weakest point so far in our relationship. 

A long and twisting road ahead, most certainly not without bumps, but prepared I am,,,, always.

[northkape]

Truly,, it has been a great summer so far.
Tanya (Brovary32) and her daughter loved my boys, and my boys loved Tanya and her daughter, all 3 kids are the same age.
We are going again for one more, all family trip to Zatoka, south of Odessa at the end of this month.
All kids are with their grandparents now, and I'm on a two week trip back home for doing some work.
Same with Tanya, she is working her ass off in Brovary while I'm at home. 
She met with Lena and Lena's parents a week ago, all smooth sailing, they will be good friends.
Tanya had her first actual driving lessons in a car today, and tries to learn more English through headphones while working.
Yes, she really needs a drivers license, in addition to as much driving experience as possible, and much better English.
This and so many other things to arrange before we marry and go to Norway in September / October.
She feels a little crazy, for not visiting Norway before we marry, but not so easy when we both have kids in school.

But after all,, life is just wonderful, as always,,,,
Me and Tanya are doing very well together, no conflicts or arguments so far.
But of course, her lack of good English and my basic Russian, makes for some frustrating situations, every now and then.

In retrospect, when looking back at 18 months of dating young and beautiful Ukraine mothers, it has been such a great experience.
I feel extremely fortunate, for having the opportunity to rekindle romantic dating again, and to have met with so many great women.
To tell the truth, I'm sure I could have married, and had a good life together with several of those women I spent time together with.
-
Tanyas daughter together with my boys, Tanya walking behind with the phone glued to her ear as usual.


-
Tanya and her young daughter when visiting the abandoned Yanukovych residence a couple of weeks ago.

[calmissile]

Northkape,

It sounds like you two really have your act together.  I am very happy for you both and your families.

Based on what you have told us, I think you will have a real winner for a wife.  I would not worry in advance of landmines and problems before they appear.  It appears you have already learned that many FSUW get over being upset in very short order.  Usually within 24 hours.  Based up her personality you might also discover that you occasionally need to put your foot down on some issue and her response will surprise you.  In my case, I was expecting WWIII and instead her response was "OK, you are the husband".  End of story, and no more discussion.

Good luck and I hope your future continues on it's current path.

[Maxx2]

Actually, I hate cellphone, and use it only when there is no alternative...

I am the same way. I like not being tied to a phone. To drive somewhere and not be bothered.

[Maxx2]

What a beauty! There is something romantic in her looks.

I agree. You are a lucky man northkape.

[fathertime]

Looking good NK...I'm glad things have been working out well for you and the young lady.


Fathertime!   

[ML]

Hi NK, glad things are going so well as you describe them.

I can't quite understand one aspect however.

This is the peachy relationship between ex wife and soon to be wife.

Sure, sure I understand that it is best for the children, etc., if the new and old spouses 'get along,' so I am sure that everyone is trying.

However, let's get down to being real also.

The ex wife has a multitude of complaints about you.

No, it's wasn't all just about her wanting to spend more time on a  career than you wanted her to spend.

She really had some serious complaints about you; just as you did about her.

So 'wife to be' really wants to know what those complaints were.

Ex wife will sugar coat those complaints for awhile when talking to 'wife to be,' but not for long, if they continue to interact.

The common idea that 'we just grew apart,' is valid in some cases, but generally only for those marriages greater than 20 - 30 years or so when the kids are gone, etc.

[JohnDearGreen]

NK,


Both you and ML seem to have an inordinate amount of free time to invest in this venture.  Do you have any recommendations for the average-Joe-worker with 3 or 4 weeks vacation each year?   


Do you feel like your lady selections and your processs got better tuned-in as time goes on and the number of ladies met increases?   As for myself, 2 or 3 ladies I met on my 1st trip were probably better than almost all the others that I met later.

[ML]

  Do you have any recommendations for the average-Joe-worker with 3 or 4 weeks vacation each year?

As I have recently posted, I don't recommend anyone do this.

And strongly recommend against for someone who has limited vacation time.

I only got started thinking about FSU women after I had gone several times there to several cities on business . . . without paying out any of my own money or spending any of my own vacation time (which I really don't have as I am self-employed independent consultant).

And even then, I did  it mainly for the purpose of being able to hook up with highly educated, highly cultured, relatively tall, pretty, slender women who were considerably younger than myself so they would still have the high sex drive prevalent in women 35 - 50.

I could and can obtain the first four listed criteria in USA, but not the last two.

[Anotherkiwi]

NK,


Both you and ML seem to have an inordinate amount of free time to invest in this venture.  Do you have any recommendations for the average-Joe-worker with 3 or 4 weeks vacation each year?   

Most of them seem to be recommending "don't do it" as Choice No. 1!

Do you feel like your lady selections and your processs got better tuned-in as time goes on and the number of ladies met increases?   As for myself, 2 or 3 ladies I met on my 1st trip were probably better than almost all the others that I met later.

So, is your wife one of those "2 or 3" from the first trip?  Or is she the exception in your "almost?"

[JohnDearGreen]

Most of them seem to be recommending "don't do it" as Choice No. 1!
So, is your wife one of those "2 or 3" from the first trip?  Or is she the exception in your "almost?"

Not sure who "them" is.  I would estimate 98% of the ladies would say "do it".  Most would prefer a younger working professional to a age 65 retired person with a lot of time on his hands.  I will pass on your 2nd question.  Difficult to
forget old flames.  Like getting stuck at the top of the Gorky Park ferris wheel with one of them.  My lady interpreter
friend shouts up at us "How about a kiss?".  [I trained her well]

[notforone]

I stumbled across this amazing thread. I am a new member, this is my first post. I am not new to the RUW world.

Northkape: high kudos for being a secure guy and sharing such useful information. High kudos also for being patient enough to answer to the few trolls who add nothing more than noise to this thread and make it difficult for others to find useful information. Some of the contributions are useful but unfortunately the attacks from anonymous trolls are not. Currently, I am on page 19 of your amazing stories.

Northkape: I perfectly understand your story as my story is in some ways similar to yours (and even currently developing in a somewhat similar manner). I am twelve years younger than you (give or take from what I can tell). I also met a few Ukrainian girls online in the early part of the last decade and went over for visits. All girls were 18-21 year old. I ended up marrying a hot 19-year old college student. She left her college to move to the states with me. She was a smart girl like your Lena and spoke English well. We divorced seven years later. She was not a passport seeker or a gold digger. She got a lot of help from me to get herself re-educated in a different field (she returned all that money later). After she was re-educated, she found a job. Less than a year later, she filed for a divorce.  Sounds similar to your story, but with no kids. After the divorce was completed, I asked her when she decided she wanted out and she answered at about the mid-point of our marriage. She could have filed earlier since the conditions on her permanent residence had been removed. However, she simply wanted to finish her degree and find a job first (the last part is my speculation). She had her many complaints about the marriage as I had mine. She has done very well professionally and did not re-marry since then.

I believe many FSU women out there seeking marriage to a western man are honestly seeking for a lifetime partner. I also think that these are smart women and can be more selfish that you'd think at first. They have a core game in mind (marrying someone for life) and they also have a fall-on backup plan (becoming independent). Another aspect of it, to which I believe Northkape also alluded, is that you cannot force a smart, independent woman to become a stay-at-home mom. She will get what she really desires at some point and you will be at the losing end of the deal. And, very importantly, a young woman will likely become westernized at some point. At first, my ex developed friendships with other RUW's married to Americans (all of whom by the way divorced sooner or later). After she went back to college in the states, she started developing friendships with local women and this is when the changes began. By the time she got her first full-time job, the changeover was complete. If I were not married to her, I would not be able to tell whether she was a Ukrainian woman except for the slight accent in her voice. So, this is what I would expect going into this as a realistic base case scenario: A number of years. How many? It depends.

By the way, I recently came back from Ukraine, first trip since the divorce, interesting trip, had a lot of fun, but at the end it didn't work out as I hoped. I will go back soon and will be better prepared this time. I am going back to Ukraine for some of the same reasons Northkape does. Where I live, I can marry a pretty, educated, independent woman up to 6 maybe 8 years younger. Women 15-20 years younger will simply not marry me. But it is also the adventure that excites me. I have time and flexibility and can do it. There is something about these women that I find irresistible.

Impatiently waiting to hear your newest trip report!

[Boethius]

a young woman will likely become westernized at some point. At first, my ex developed friendships with other RUW's married to Americans (all of whom by the way divorced sooner or later). After she went back to college in the states, she started developing friendships with local women and this is when the changes began. By the time she got her first full-time job, the changeover was complete.

A common refrain here; she became westernized, or was influenced by other FSUW, and she changed.  People generally are who they are.  Their core personalities don't change much over time, but they do grow.   Single young women, and particularly teens, generally don't dream of marrying men their fathers' ages, or, sometimes, older.  Most age disparate WM/FSUW matches are not love matches.  So, it is not a surprise that as a young woman's opportunities and choices expand, the corresponding expansion in what she can now achieve on her own, and what she can find in a mate, have an effect on her as well.

[Faux Pas]

A common refrain here; she became westernized, or was influenced by other FSUW, and she changed.  People generally are who they are.  Their core personalities don't change much over time, but they do grow.   Single young women, and particularly teens, generally don't dream of marrying men their fathers' ages, or, sometimes, older.  Most age disparate WM/FSUW matches are not love matches.  So, it is not a surprise that as a young woman's opportunities and choices expand, the corresponding expansion in what she can now achieve on her own, and what she can find in a mate, have an effect on her as well.

Yup. In essence, those 18-24 year old women eventually grow up. So, rather than work on the marriage to the woman one was supposedly in love with, time to turn her out and go find another hot body I can impress my friends with. This is so much easier than finding the actual life partner to begin with 

[pitbull]

Yup. In essence, those 18-24 year old women eventually grow up. So, rather than work on the marriage to the woman one was supposedly in love with, time to turn her out and go find another hot body I can impress my friends with. This is so much easier than finding the actual life partner to begin with 

I think as long as the old dude understands the deal, like "notforene" (A number of years. How many? It depends.), and sticks to his part of the deal, like pay for her education and help her establish herself in the new country, it can be an okay arrangement.
[/size]
[/size]The risk is all on the girl, particularly if she 1) sticks to such a marriage for longer than necessary 2) doesn't use the marriage time to better and establish herself

[Faux Pas]

I think as long as the old dude understands the deal, like "notforene" (A number of years. How many? It depends.), and sticks to his part of the deal, like pay for her education and help her establish herself in the new country, it can be an okay arrangement.
[/size]
[/size]The risk is all on the girl, particularly if she 1) sticks to such a marriage for longer than necessary 2) doesn't use the marriage time to better and establish herself

I have no problem with two grown adults having/agreeing to such an arrangement. But, let's call it what it is    

[fathertime]

Yup. In essence, those 18-24 year old women eventually grow up. So, rather than work on the marriage to the woman one was supposedly in love with, time to turn her out and go find another hot body I can impress my friends with. This is so much easier than finding the actual life partner to begin with 

I question the 'impress the friends' part of this.  My wife was fairly young when she arrived 5 years ago '23'.  I don't know that it impressed anybody though, and I, if anything got tired of 'age gap' questions.  She turns 29 in less than a month but hasn't aged as much as I have so I'm still clearly quite a bit older.    I would think that most men would NOT marry a young woman IN ORDER TO IMPRESS FRIENDS, but rather because they just simply like younger women for other reasons.  If I were to ever marry a young woman with a great body again, (No danger of that right now), I think I would be somewhat embarrassed about the age gap and not really want 'show her off' to friends.

I think as long as the old dude understands the deal, like "notforene" (A number of years. How many? It depends.), and sticks to his part of the deal, like pay for her education and help her establish herself in the new country, it can be an okay arrangement.

The risk is all on the girl, particularly if she 1) sticks to such a marriage for longer than necessary 2) doesn't use the marriage time to better and establish herself

Yes in some situations I guess this is the best a guy can hope for, and actually all he may want.  If it turns into a ....cough cough.. win/win, then no harm done.






Fathertime!     

[Turboguy]

I have to agree with Fathertime about impressing friends.  I think in a few cases some of the motivation for a younger, beautiful wife may be to impress friends.  The type of person who feels he must drive a Mercedes that he can't quite afford and live in a house he can't quite afford is probably the type that wan'ts an impressive woman on his arm.  For me I drive a beat up pickup with 162,000 miles on it and live in a house that is 114 years old and quite average or less.


I think an age gap creates some controversy in peoples minds as to the motivations of each and someone wanting to impress his friends would be smarter to seek out a strikingly beautiful woman closer to his age.  When it comes to impressing friends couples with age gaps would seem more likely to have separate friends and that could apply even more with a marriage to a woman from another country.  In my case I am fine with the age gap and would be fine if we didn't have one.  It is a plus that she is very attractive but that too wasn't that much of a concern.  What attracted me was the inner qualities and I have never been disappointed in those as time has progressed. 

[northkape]

Sorry for replying so late,, but busy weeks behind me,,,
And Norwegian airlines cancelled my flight to Kiev the day after Malaysian flight was "shot down"
So arriving here in Kiev a day later,,

Thanks to all of you for the nice comments,,,,

Doug,,,
You are right,, she appears to be, a "real winner" as a wife.
For me a very comfortable woman to be around and together with, and apparently for her friends also.
Judging by their facial expressions, all of those we have met with seems to like her very much.
One of her lifelong friends, married in Sweden, told me very clearly that I could hardly find a nicer woman to marry.

Maxx,,,
Lucky is the right word, it feels just great to have one more shot at an adventurous romantic endeavor, this late in life.
And on top of it, with such a nice woman,,, smile...

FT,,,
It's looking good, and getting even better, the more time I spend with her.

ML,,,
Not much in the way of "skeletons in the cabinet", for me to be afraid of.
I can't imagine Lena exaggerating any negatives about my personality, as it would only backfire on herself in the end.
However friendly she and Tanya might become, I think she will leave it to Tanya, to make her own decision about me.

John,,,
In my opinion, it's a good thing to physically meet with a moderate selection of women to check for level of mutual attraction.
These meetings should be carefully picked from a much larger selection of women that met your initial search criteria,
and that has proven themselves to be genuinely interested in you, through communication in writing and Skype.
Personally, I used my own "monitored website" in addition, to totally eliminate wasting time on non-serious women.

notf,,,
Yes,, "irresistible" is the alluring magic, that made me want to embark, once again on a journey in these waters.
On the previous page I wrote the following:

And of all strange happenings,,
a few weeks ago, I got in touch with an Oslo32 from Russia...
She is a doctor and has been here in Norway for almost two years,
divorced with a kid, looking for a husband / family father.
Beautiful, with the same figure, weight, height as Cyprus and all the others.
Lives 60 minutes away, but has only been chatting with her on the phone so far.
Plan to meet with her in the evening today, if she is free from work early enough,,, smile


Oslo32 has a young boy, a Phd in medicine, and is at the start of a great career with a permanent residence permit already.
She is speaking good Norwegian, and could move in to live together with me and my boys with no need to marry first.
I went on several dates with her, and yes, she was very attractive and we both had a instant like for each other.
Lena considered me to be almost an idiot for finally dropping her in favor of Tanya.
But Tanya and the adventure in Ukraine had this "irresistible" alluring magic to it,,,
unfortunately I didn't feel the same for Oslo32.

Bo,,,
Generally, I would have to agree with you.

FP,,,
Me and Lena's intentions were honestly good, and yes we might have been able to save our marriage.
But looking back at it now, I'm not sure it would have been a good idea after all.

pb,,,
Agree, that for some women it might turn out good either way.
If they find life comfortable with the man they married, and at least had some physical attraction to, they stay.
On the other hand they are free to leave for something better if they have played out their cards correctly.

FT / Turbo
Absolutely agree about the "impress friends" part.
My friends, mostly thinks I'm nuts for what I'm doing.

At the moment, I'm in Brovary with Tanya.
In the coming weekend, me, Tanya and her dog, will drive to Dnieprodzherzhinsk to pick up my boys and their Guinea pigs at Lena's parents,
and then drive to Melitopol to pick up Tanya's daughter and her rabbit, at Tanya's parents.
With the car filled with us and animals, we will drive to Zatoka south of Odessa for a weeks family vacation on the beach.
Zatoka is a cosy small place, having a long nice beach with hotels directly on the sea front, really a great place for kids.
Me and Tanya drove there a couple of weeks ago to check it out, see photo:

[ML]

I have to agree with Fathertime about impressing friends.  I think in a few cases some of the motivation for a younger, beautiful wife may be to impress friends.  The type of person who feels he must drive a Mercedes that he can't quite afford and live in a house he can't quite afford is probably the type that wan'ts an impressive woman on his arm.  For me I drive a beat up pickup with 162,000 miles on it and live in a house that is 114 years old and quite average or less.

Oh . . . bla, bla, bla.

We don't have to be dishonest here.

Of course we guys want to impress friends.

A big satisfaction for me is knowing how jealous other guys are.
I know they are saying . . . how the he!! did he get her; and why can't I have someone like her.  I know because the truthful ones tell me.

And the honest gal's know what the plan is also.

The honest gals will say:  Everything we do (in terms of appearance) is for men.

Come on men . . . man up here.  A feminine side may be OK, but let's don't overdo it.

[Gator]

I am with Turbo.   Everyone is different.  I have never been a showoff.  I try to understate my accomplishments, my signs of success.  E. g., I drive a 17-yo SUV, but that is fine because I drive only 3-4k per year because the golf course is next door.  My wife refuses to ride in my truck.     


Confession:  I will admit that in a large social gathering, I enjoy seeing my woman all dressed up, looking fabulous.  I marvel at her glamour, not the reactions of others.

[ML]

  I marvel at her glamour, not the reactions of others.

Oh, more bla, bla, bla.

Let's get honest fellas.  Yes, you marvel . . . but you also delight.