What is an MOB'er?

[pitbull]

But, if one reads FSUW forums, many of them, even a slight majority, are not in love with their partners.  They readily admit their partners do not know this.  Hence, they are insincere.  You can ask some of the FSUW who post here for confirmation of this.

Confirmed. Have been reading FSUW forums for years.
In case of FSUW with young kids marrying AM who are older/much older than those FSUW's fathers. There is no love there. There is at most a degree of respect. It's a contract. The old goats gets a woman in many case younger than his own daughters - for whatever reason he wants one. She gets a better future for her child/children. She does sacrifice her time and youth, even has to go to bed with an old frog every night. Many an FSUW wrote on those forums that they need at least a drink and close their eyes - but they do it for their kids' future.
I have no problem if both parties understand the rules of such marriage and stick to them. The real tragedy occurs when the woman realizes that marrying an old goat doesn't mean getting royal treatment, financial stability and care of their kids. Many of those old goats do believe (and convince themselves) that the women are with them indeed for the love of their wrinkled booty, not for the financial benefit. Many just don't have the finances, plain and simple. So, no good schools/activities/cars/colleges for kids as the woman has expected. Often - no health insurance or car, or education, or even normal food for the woman and her kid. The old goat even expects her to go wash the toilets to take care of herseld and the child  after all, he already brought her to the land of milk and honey! And he expects her to be a maid and a cook for him!
You have no idea how many stories just like that i've read on the FSUW forums over the years - it's just so sad!

[GQBlues]

...Old geezers, maybe but social rejects?  You are the one that is a social reject and every time you open your mouth you prove it.  Having alienated most of the members already, perhaps it is time to put you on ignore!

MAJORITY of the AM/FSUW couples    You are loosing it I am afraid.

Calmissille-

Anyone can Google San Berdo and understand only losers live in that area. If it isn't for Rancho Cucamonga/ Ontario / Riverside, the place would be a silly desolate area for in-breds.

[Misha]

A well-adjusted man can be  social reject when it comes to dating.

Fortunately, my ego is not built upon my dating skills and as I am now married my wife is quite content for me to not date so my need for well refined dating skills is nonexistent. 

Now, you can't blame women for not wanting to be seen, much less date, a fat man, can you?

Again, this odd obsession with being fat or not fat...

[BillyB]

Tolstoy was referring to marriages, then in fashion in Russia, of teen aged girls with men in their twilight years.

Who is talking about teen aged girls marrying men on their death beds here? Only you. We're talking about marriages with large age gaps and you used a man as an example who mocks it, (or are you making that up?), when in fact you didn't know he was in a marriage with a large age gap.

Of course, I don't expect Billy to have read much Tolstoy.

Putting someone down doesn't lift yourself up doesn't work with smart people. Don't you think it's better to know about reality, the writer, than his fiction, his writings?

But, if one reads FSUW forums, many of them, even a slight majority, are not in love with their partners.  They readily admit their partners do not know this.  Hence, they are insincere. 

You never met these people yet you know exactly how they feel and thus they represent the majority. Some of the people you honored earlier in this thread you felt is helping their wives grow spend an enormous amount of time on the internet. I don't know how they do it. When I got married, I spend a lot less time. Most people in cross cultural marriages to not spend lots of time on a forum and less time on the internet so those you read on a forum are a small sample and should not represent the majority.


One reason my critics stopped criticizing me and my relationship is because I post a lot of photos. I don't have to say my wife is in love with me. One can see she's very healthy, taken care of and happy. Until you see more photos and better yet actually meet people, reading them doesn't define them completely. Although you mention you met lots of FSU people, I've actually dated them and got a feel of what women want and what they will accept. What I written in my previous post isn't made up or my opinion, it comes from the horse's mouth.

[jone]

I guess I goofed on the post button. 

[pitbull]

Huh?

[jone]

Confirmed. Have been reading FSUW forums for years.
In case of FSUW with young kids marrying AM who are older/much older than those FSUW's fathers. There is no love there. There is at most a degree of respect. It's a contract. The old goats gets a woman in many case younger than his own daughters - for whatever reason he wants one. She gets a better future for her child/children. She does sacrifice her time and youth, even has to go to bed with an old frog every night. Many an FSUW wrote on those forums that they need at least a drink and close their eyes - but they do it for their kids' future.
I have no problem if both parties understand the rules of such marriage and stick to them. The real tragedy occurs when the woman realizes that marrying an old goat doesn't mean getting royal treatment, financial stability and care of their kids. Many of those old goats do believe (and convince themselves) that the women are with them indeed for the love of their wrinkled booty, not for the financial benefit. Many just don't have the finances, plain and simple. So, no good schools/activities/cars/colleges for kids as the woman has expected. Often - no health insurance or car, or education, or even normal food for the woman and her kid. The old goat even expects her to go wash the toilets to take care of herseld and the child  after all, he already brought her to the land of milk and honey! And he expects her to be a maid and a cook for him!
You have no idea how many stories just like that i've read on the FSUW forums over the years - it's just so sad!

Frankly, your point of view is anecdotal as well, just as was Bo's and mine.  Your 'old goat' imagery is simply that, a concoction from your mind of what you imagine that person looks like and acts like.  While I'm not saying that you have not heard such stories, all of your imagery creates a generalization.  Each person is different, with different degrees of involvement, affection, support and love.  Unless you live another person's life, it is impossible to know what's going on in their mind or in their heart.

Like this forum here, a forum for FSUW is simply that, a place to go, express feelings, and offer mutual support.  This forum is a collection of the more sophisticated of those people who have gone the FSUW/WM direction, and, therefore is a collection of people who have substantial knowledge about the process.  Accordingly, the FSUW sites that I am aware of (I am sure you are much more practiced than I am at visiting such sites  ) are there for the purpose of allowing the sharing of experiences and getting advice. 

Because they are there, these women become sophisticated as well. The hard cases are advised as to how to leave a loveless marriage.  Rather than exist in a slavery type setting without support, healthcare, and an existence of cleaning toilets, the women emerge divorced, with a green card and ready for action.  Some of my interaction has been with young women who use these sites to fool the immigration system.

But, as stated above, your perspective is anecdotal and should be understood as such, not as gospel truth.

[Boethius]

Anecdotal evidence should not be dismissed outright, particularly when it comes to human relations.  Most observation of human relations is done through either hard won personal experience or by anecdote.

If one hears the same stories over and over again, patterns emerge.   Anecdotal evidence allows us to recognize such patterns and categorize, rather effectively, situations which surround us.


So, unless you've got something scientific which demonstrates that women with children who marry, as pitbull called them, "old goats", are deliriously happy, what do we really have to go on other than anecdotes?

[Misha]

[size=78%]Like this forum here, a forum for FSUW is simply that, a place to go, express feelings, and offer mutual support.  [/size]

The women that I do know from the FSU, none participate in forums for FSUW. One must be careful not to overgeneralize and the forums for women may not necessarily be representative of women married to foreigners any more than the men here representative of all men married to FSUW...

[Boethius]

Or they don't admit it.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Anecdotal evidence should not be dismissed outright, particularly when it comes to human relations.  Most observation of human relations is done through either hard won personal experience or by anecdote.

If one hears the same stories over and over again, patterns emerge.   Anecdotal evidence allows us to recognize such patterns and categorize, rather effectively, situations which surround us.


So, unless you've got something scientific which demonstrates that women with children who marry, as pitbull called them, "old goats", are deliriously happy, what do we really have to go on other than anecdotes?

Looking at forums for anecdotal evidence is questionable at best.   It is reasonable to conclude that most stories would be similar based on the concept of search patterns that brought them to the forum.


If you have women searching Google for "I am a FSU woman and I hate my husband", they will find stories about how FSU women hate their husband. 


Hardly a fair representation.

[jone]

Anecdotal evidence should not be dismissed outright, particularly when it comes to human relations.  Most observation of human relations is done through either hard won personal experience or by anecdote.

If one hears the same stories over and over again, pattern emerge.   Anecdotal evidence allows us to recognize such patterns and categorize, rather effectively, situations which surround us.


So, unless you've got something scientific which demonstrates that women with children who marry, as pitbull called them, "old goats", are deliriously happy, what do we really have to go on other than anecdotes?

Absolutely nothing.  You are correct.  There is no statistical evidence. 

But before we believe that this beautiful 'Skaya' is down on her hands and knees, scrubbing toilets for a living because she is destitute, without healthcare, can't cloth her children, etc., simply because she married a man not the same age as the man who got her pregnant, we must give pause before believing that this is the standard.  My concern was with the imagery and the presentation.  I am sure that there are many marriages of convenience.

The women who aren't on such a forum (at least for long) are the women who get their ticket to a Western Country, do their time with their husband, get their green card, and jet-set off to a new existence.  Some even skip the husband part, by hiring a fake husband or going the VAWA route.  This is not documented but should be noted.

As stated in earlier threads, I am currently in a relationship with a woman who is 11 years younger than I am.  We are compatible, have many common interests and are talking about having a family together.  Should I run and hide under a table because of age disparity?  Based on anecdotal evidence? 

The perspective that is given, which is anecdotal, should be tempered with conditional phrases rather than painted as stated fact.  Otherwise, absent statistical fact, it cannot be proven.  Your statement last night regarding the 25 year age difference was easy to acknowledge because in my mind I could not visualize anything other than what you said as being true.  While anecdotal, it was something that one could relate to and therefore accept.  That is not the case here.  No conditionals were used, therefore the argument is disregarded. 

An anecdotal argument which uses grand suppositions, such as the term 'Old Goat', defined only as a person older than the man who got the woman pregnant, cannot be held as valid.

[ML]

Should I run and hide under a table because of age disparity?   

No, but you should wear a hair shirt.

[ML]

Enough of these age gaps.

Let's talk about something less controversial . . .

Like sexual positions, frequency, noises, number of outcomes, funny happenings, etc.

Example of funny:  Gal referred to 96 position.  I said, let's try it.  She then laughed.

Example:  One knee (doesn't matter who on top) slipping over the edge of very narrow couch with both parties eventually on floor.

[Muzh]

Is it truly that exceptional [for an RW pursuing a career]?  One of the most written about topics is the expense after her arrival - which always includes the cost of education as a large portion of her adaptation and pursuing her chosen career profession.  ????  Is it really all talk?   

Me thinks this was GQ's beef. It is really all talk.

Ever heard about MOBers looking for the 'traditional' woman? That AW are such vicious animals who prefer careers to stay-at-home moms bleh, bleh, bleh, so they are making this 'investment' to shag themselves a 'traditional' woman?

Wouldn't a woman who chooses a career be antithetical to a 'traditional' woman?

In that respect, I can understand that this would be exceptional given the culture of the MOBer.

Now, back to reading.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Me thinks this was GQ's beef. It is really all talk.

Ever heard about MOBers looking for the 'traditional' woman? That AW are such vicious animals who prefer careers to stay-at-home moms bleh, bleh, bleh, so they are making this 'investment' to shag themselves a 'traditional' woman?

Wouldn't a woman who chooses a career be antithetical to a 'traditional' woman?

In that respect, I can understand that this would be exceptional given the culture of the MOBer.

Now, back to reading.

Do these MOB'ers really want a stay at home housewife because they state they want "tradition"?   


I honestly haven't see that reference to tradition but I tend to gloss over that stuff.

If that was the case and they found a woman who wanted the same, what is the problem?

[Muzh]

I don't know.  I dated one who wanted to stay at home and raise kids, take care of the family, etc.  That's one out of five or 20% in my statistically insignificant sampling.

Heh, my ex-wife demanded a flat in Manhattan with a maid.

She had me confused with a Russian government official.

[Faux Pas]

Me thinks this was GQ's beef. It is really all talk.

Ever heard about MOBers looking for the 'traditional' woman? That AW are such vicious animals who prefer careers to stay-at-home moms bleh, bleh, bleh, so they are making this 'investment' to shag themselves a 'traditional' woman?

Wouldn't a woman who chooses a career be antithetical to a 'traditional' woman?

In that respect, I can understand that this would be exceptional given the culture of the MOBer.

Now, back to reading.

In the heyday it was "All AW are fat, unemployed, pill popping alcoholic feminist that expect me to take care of her and put up with her shit while she is banging all my friends and some who aren't" *paraphrasing here* 

[LiveFromUkraine]

In the heyday it was "All AW are fat, unemployed, pill popping alcoholic feminist that expect me to take care of her and put up with her shit" *paraphrasing here* 

Some of my favorites:


 I dated a ton of beautiful AW at home but still ended up going overseas for a wife.


It just happened that my wife was Russian (even though they signed up for Russian dating sites).


I was always interested in Russian culture.


 

[Muzh]

So, on a more serious note.. would you say this "buying youth/trading youth for access to cash." is naturally assumed? possibly the core definition of MOB'er??

Assumed by the on-looker? That is a big yes in the majority of cases. Hot Sveta walks in with Mr. Wrinkle. Yep.

Core definition?

Think about this for a second. How many interpreters are working in the FSU supporting Western men visiting their 'fiances?' Would you say that the vast majority of men traveling to the former Soyuz can speak and communicate with their intended without any assistance?

[Muzh]

Bo,

Your choice of words and characterization of the motives for men going to Ukraine to "buy" a wife is insulting and misleading.  Men go to Ukraine and other FSU countries because they cannot find what they are wanting in the US. 

To say that they cannot attract what they want is misleading. The truth is that they are in very short supply!  Any hot, single woman in the US is already so sought after that they already know their worth and can pick and choose who they want to date/marry.  There are so few of them, that the supply cannot meet the demand. 

The wonderful characteristics of many FSU women are what they want and that is why they go where the supply is.  It is not only beauty men are after, but the MOB agencies exploit that characteristic as well.

Perhaps if you rephrase your comment, we might be closer to agreement.

It is true that the women often marry Americans to improve their lifestyles.  So what?  That applies to all kinds of people.  People move and change jobs to improve their lifestyles.  It is a natural human desire.

I'm scratching my head here.

You agree with Boethius yet you claim she is insulting (to you)?

[Muzh]

One can think this all strange and unethical but it's a fact in the FSU women, on average, will consider a larger age gap compared to their Western sister. Unwise? It's probably wise in the minds of those women to accept this as they deal with less financial troubles, immaturity, and drama than they would with a younger husband. Living in a place where BS is abundant, the last thing they need is additional BS from a husband and there's less risk, less BS, and more stability, including financially, with an older husband than a younger.

All things being equal, this is bullshevik.

Try again.

[GQBlues]

What is an MOB. Stardate 1-Six.2004: Justifiable Exploitation
 
I remember during my newbie days spotting an agency located in Yoshkar -Ola called Makshim (Maxim). My first post at RWG was about this experience and titled it: Justifiable Exploitation.
 
You sign up with the agency and they appoint a 'point' person to meet your *needs*. You do what you usually do in these web-based agencies - browse their catalogues...then pick your horses choices. It seemed harmless at the time especially since your point man will then communicate with the gals to see if they're interested in you - and only then do communication starts. Safe so far...
 
Then I get an email telling me the result with an added feature service. I was told I can start communicating with the women who said 'yes' PLUS, for an additional 'fee', I can get beautiful pictures of these women in bikinis. How much or how little I would like to pay will determine how much or how little they'll be wearing...I was assured it was a very popular feature for the men.
 
LOL. Bailed out of that stupidity....
 
But it was the *general response* to that particular thread I started that was an eye-opener for me. It was generally viewed by the peanut gallery as *normal* to this venture measured by the overall thread response. Normal? This was a rude awakening for me about this silly adventure. These men are supposedly looking for their respective wives...
 
At the time, I couldn't quite figure out where the fault lies. My mind immediately 100 miles and hour and started thinking - some men will eventually marry one of these women - and regardless what type of life they/she may find herself in his hometown - there is that slim possibility her bare/ naked pictures housed in some/many men's C-drive could somehow find it's way out into the virtual wilderness.
 
Anecdotal? Generalization? Justifiable? Exploitation?
 
The mindless world of the MOB for MOBers...

[pitbull]

Frankly, your point of view is anecdotal as well, just as was Bo's and mine.  Your 'old goat' imagery is simply that, a concoction from your mind of what you imagine that person looks like and acts like.  While I'm not saying that you have not heard such stories, all of your imagery creates a generalization.  Each person is different, with different degrees of involvement, affection, support and love.  Unless you live another person's life, it is impossible to know what's going on in their mind or in their heart.

But, as stated above, your perspective is anecdotal and should be understood as such, not as gospel truth.

Nice blah blah 
Where did I say everyone is as I described and this is gospel thruth? However, I've read a lot (as in MANY) stories just as I've described on FSUW forums for years. They are pretty cookie-cutter with slight variations. I've talked to quite some women personally. Heck, there are enough old goats on this very site with exactly the same mindset. It does happen, much more often than many WM want to admit.
You see old men here are selling their age as having the following features that RW find attractive in a husband: Maturity, will treat you like a princess, stability, financial first and foremost, provides good future for the RW's kids. The ugly thruth is, old husband doesn't come with those features by default. He sure comes with the wrinkled ass though
 
As they say, "With age comes wisdom. However, quite often old age comes alone" 
I really hope girls with young kids realize this simple thruth before the marriage.

[Misha]

PLUS, for an additional 'fee', I can get beautiful pictures of these women in bikinis.


there is that slim possibility her bare/ naked pictures

So we go from women in bikinis to bare naked    However, to be honest, I would say that most Russian women under the age of 40 (and many more under the age of 50) already have piles of photos of themselves in their bikinis on their favorite social networking sites...