She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...

[ML]

Well, I can't speak for all Russian women, but I think if she liked you for you, she would just move in with you for free and take it from there. Look at it this way: the $100000 is the measure of how much she dislikes you.   

WOW, the harshest comment of all . . . and from a female!!

I have a different take on this.

My comments assume:  She does have a very good business and income in her current location that cannot be duplicated quickly in the USA.

Following  that line of thought . . . she does have too much to give up and is right to want the apartment and monthly stipend.

But following further . . . it is just too much for any man to take on,  and the OP should quickly move on.

The current match-up is a lose-lose for both parties.

[Gator]

Paulie,
 
It sounds as if you have plenty of wealth to afford this.  However, $100,000 is serious money except for members of Cypress Point Golf Club (if you are a member please tell me if the "I'll flip a coin for it" story is true).
 

I assume you are talking about marriage.  If not, she has a point, especially considering that she would be illegal.   I hope you do not pursue that path as her working could be problematic.
 
To marry you, your woman must give up a fairly good job in Istanbul.   If her motives are genuine, she is concerned about restarting her career if you divorce her.  If so, why does she want an apartment which is not highly liquid in today's economy?   A prenup would be far better for her and less costly to you.
   
These successful, gorgeous RW are very intriguing.  They have managed to succeed in what has been much more of a man's world than America.   Many are somewhat jaded about love after having been taken advantage of by a man or two in the past.  Also, your woman is now at an age where she is thinking much more about the future.   
 
The opportunity to participate in a much larger market should be enough impetus for a sincere business woman (in combination with a 6-month "safety net" guaranteed by a prenup).  There is also the possibility that her daughter will remain in the US and that would make life with you in the US even more appealing.
 
 Thus, don't buy her an apartment, but do offer her a prenup.  She should visit you in California while drafting the prenup with her attorney (whose time you will pay of course).  If she makes the prenup unduly complicated and comprehensive, say "good bye."  Can you imagine how she could drag out a divorce!
 
Interesting about your woman being a national gymnast.  My wife was also a gymnast when very young but never competed at the national level and instead worked in a circus as a teenager for two years (something fascinating about about a 5'8" gymnast) before being discovered for a runway modeling career.  Maybe they know each other although my wife is probably a little older. 
 
Her 24-yo daughter is attending university in the Tampa area, and she has met many RW students. Some students areoutstanding, very serious and accomplishing much (she brought over one music major who played  Rachmaninov; I did not know my baby grand could produce such music).     Other students....I will not say.  What is your impression of the daughter as that is some reflection of the sincerity of the mother.

[CDW]

I have a simple mission for you.

1)  Go and buy TURKISH-ENGLISH dictionary

2)  Look up for "goodbye" and write it to her in Turkish

3)  MOVE ON

Your mission is complete!!!  You don't need to be Tom Cruise because it isn't impossible

[Lily]

A very interesting topic indeed!
 
At the same time, for me, the level of the woman in question does not quite match with a nature of security that she asks from Paulie. I know that the FSU people used to believe that a real estate is an asset that provides the most security for the owners. It is not easily devalued and is usually liquid enough.
 
However, this type of thinking is not for the American ecomony where there are other tools which are able to provide reasonable risk management. Of note, the main role in managing the risks is still wih the individual. It appears that the woman in question wants to get away from her personal responsibilities for her future.
 
Lots of good advice here. I would ask her why she believes that an apartment would cover the most risks for her, and what are those risks that would be uniquely covered by this apartment. Is she aware of any other risk management tools, if yes, why aren't they good enough for her?
 
Oh, and then about the Turkish men...A Moslem culture, where Turks belongs, considers a woman totally unable to look after and to provide for herself, let alone for her dependends. That's why they may prefer to treat her with the kinds of collateral assets, like jewels, houses and other things that could be easily transferred into cash in case of any existence threatening problems for their owner. Often this is a situation where her husband says her "Talak" three times, meaning that he intends to leave her. See how compatible is this mentality with the views in the society where you live?

[calmissile]

i'd dump her so hard she'd bounce.

Paulie,

Seriously, unless you need/want a trophy wife for personal/business reasons I don't see why you would complicate your life with this women.
Since you have the wealth to afford whatever you want, you might consider slowing down and rethinking this venture.  A great deal of good advice has already been given in this thread.  I would take it to heart.

Consider this.....The FSU has tens of thousands of beautiful, well educated, motivated, women that would make you a great wife.  You might want to consider whether this woman has qualities that far outweigh the qualities of other FSU women (without the financial demands).

Something seems to be missing in this scenario.  I have been told by several FSU women that what is important is the MAN, not where he lives or how wealthy he is.  They have indicated that if they are in love, they will live wherever the man is located.  And there are no financial guarantees of this nature required.  It sounds to me like this gal is more interested in a business arrangement than a loving marriage.

In your position, I am certain you can find what you are looking for.  The most important things are a woman's personality and compatibility with you.  Look for a upper-class, refined, well educated woman with a personality that is going to make your life fun to be together.  Once you find her and fall in love with each other, you can discuss your ability to ensure her financial security.  I sure as hell would not discuss your financial matters prior to an engagement.   If she is not in love with you prior to this point, the financial element may distort her true intentions.

Good luck. I sounds like the advice up-thread has already got you thinking in the right direction.

[Patagonie]

Paulie,

Seriously, unless you need/want a trophy wife for personal/business reasons I don't see why you would complicate your life with this women.
Since you have the wealth to afford whatever you want, you might consider slowing down and rethinking this venture.  A great deal of good advice has already been given in this thread.  I would take it to heart.

Consider this.....The FSU has tens of thousands of beautiful, well educated, motivated, women that would make you a great wife.  You might want to consider whether this woman has qualities that far outweigh the qualities of other FSU women (without the financial demands).

Something seems to be missing in this scenario.  I have been told by several FSU women that what is important is the MAN, not where he lives or how wealthy he is.  They have indicated that if they are in love, they will live wherever the man is located.  And there are no financial guarantees of this nature required.  It sounds to me like this gal is more interested in a business arrangement than a loving marriage.

In your position, I am certain you can find what you are looking for.  The most important things are a woman's personality and compatibility with you.  Look for a upper-class, refined, well educated woman with a personality that is going to make your life fun to be together.  Once you find her and fall in love with each other, you can discuss your ability to ensure her financial security.  I sure as hell would not discuss your financial matters prior to an engagement.   If she is not in love with you prior to this point, the financial element may distort her true intentions.

Good luck. I sounds like the advice up-thread has already got you thinking in the right direction.

Great post
And i advice you to NEVER, NEVER tell any numerals with an FSU woman about what you earn and what you own. And surely not in FSU or with women not so wealthy.
I advice you also to be a little curious about the world around you and for example make a search about the median earning by single or by household. Your girl is easily in the top 5% in France of single.

[Faux Pas]

Paulie,
Quite honestly I find the whole idea quite bizarre. The idea that she would require this and that you'd think even for a minute, that it is acceptable behavior.

I'd advise getting off that fast track and re-evaluate. From all that you've mentioned, this isn't much more than a business arrangement and for her, business is good. For those terms hell, I'd marry you for a few years. I just wished I hadn't wasted all that money on my kids education while I could have had you paying it 

Your first mistake I suppose was offering and her's was asking. Fashionista IMHO, summed it up pretty well. Look at the brightside, the lady only hates you $100K at this time. Surely after a few years of marriage she can increase that to $500K?

You mentioned love a couple of times. Are you sure? Personally, my approach to this woman would be, with such a high price tag on marriage and leaving her life in Turkey, she should just keep her life. You could travel to Istanbul monthly cheaper than you could marry this woman and "interrupt her life". If she isn't taking any risks in the relationship, why should you?

[Paulie]

I want to thank everyone for their comments.  Many of these comments have made the same or similar points.

@Patagonie - By the way, in no way was I trying to be condescending to this audience.  And, I have had a tough life.  It took me a lifetime to get where I am.  I am just not about to let a woman march in and take that away from me just because she feels a need for security. 

I am unfamiliar with many differences in the FSU culture.   I now know more because of this forum.

Again - thank you!

[BillyB]

Paulie, too bad I'm married because I'd stay with you for half the price of the lady you're involved with and give you less red flags. There's better out there. Hope you find her.

[JayH]

I am unfamiliar with many differences in the FSU culture.   

Paulie--those words are very important to you.  Lily above starts to allude to it.

I stand by my earlier post(  pre-nup  = prerequisite!!)-- do not give this relationship away prematurely. In contrast with nearly all the other posters here I think they are missing the point.
The  2 of you are not 20 yo with nothing to lose. You are a mature couple and quite different parameters apply You both have the potential to lose assets and future security that represents a life times work . She will have busted her buns to make a decent life for herself ( and her daughter)-- and the expectation of giving that away and risk everything  on a new relationship is totally unreasonable to my way of thinking.
Those that say she should --  pretty fuzzy thinking  to my mind. The fact that she raised the issue is a good thing-- she does have a business brain and a lot of common sense. It is nothing to do with gold digging or brazen greed-- in her mind it makes sense to have a fall back position. She wants to get it all clear before she commits.
In reality--if you have a few bucks to protect-- to my way of thinking from a pure business point of view-- this is the cheapest deal on offer you will ever have available to exit relationship!! lol
The relationship itself is what should be driving you now-- not a few bucks here and there. To some here it looks like a big ask( I don't particularly like the look of the number specifics quoted) -- to others it is pocket change. Generally speaking if that was all adding someone to my life was going to cost--I would think it is on the bottom end of the real cost scale.
That is the bones  of how I would look at it- interested to see your comments.

BTW-- where in Ukraine was she originally from? ( relevance is that apartments in parts of UKR can easily run $500k plus)
 

[I/O]

Wifey just about rolled on the floor laughing when I related this story and her response was, apparently Australia has lost $23 million over the last year to scammers, if you want to add to Americas donations to the same cause, import her, otherwise tell her to stay where she is.
 
PS: She's working on the  womens "floor" theory with men, lay him right the first time and walk all over him for the rest of his life. 

[Patagonie]

The point Jay is not that a genuine lady who has a successful life (she knows) , could have concerns about her future by relocating, this is legitimate.

The point is she is delivering some informations in the way to get some wealth, temporary or permanently. The point is that the OP has swallowed all without checking none. Some women are damned good at this type of game and the OP has showed from the scratch how deep is his wallet.

Look :
"She was really burned in her last marriage to a man who was financially irresponsible and compromised their financial security"
My god if she hadn't been burned, how much money would she have earned today ?
20000$, 30000$ per month 

It is because she is too much used to be "waited on her hand and foot" that her ex husband maybe failed the marriage financially ? good question no ?  . If she has milked him by her expectations, you get the beginning of an answer.

"She has her moments, her expectations of what a man should do for her are higher than anything I've ever experienced"
You summarize it very well, she is a very high maintenance lady and you are the perfect target for such women. She knows that her show is not continuing for too long and, national athlete or not, she will not compete against the 25-35 pool in FSU (just go in FSU Paulie, you will surely forget quickly this one). What i mean is that after 40-45 the nines (9) must manage their pride and ego and focus more about relationship rather than the service they get from men. The men who have spoiled such women from their twenties by gifting and throwing the money like water, meet them again twenty years later and relationships with this type of women become a pain in the ass because life is a hell, they are used to get and not to give. And they have a lot problems to readjust. A lot will not readjust and will try to secure "their assets". 
To find thoses ones you don't need to go to Turkey or in FSU they are plenty in USA or Europe.

Generally this type of story are train wrecks, the guys who are successful here, have generally avoided like the plague this type of women IMHO.
You try to meet her expectations ? You are just going to loose your personality. It nevers bring love, in fact what women never told you : they hate men who are doing all they want, they loose respect and interest in time for such guys.
you should read ML trip reports or Leslied on the other forum.

Pat.
You can try the poker situation by going and explaining that you have lost your job. Go in Turkey, stop to give her money, gifts and others stupids things and assess her reaction. It will be the moment of truth. You think this is dishonest ? Women test you every time, don't worry.

[calmissile]

Wifey just about rolled on the floor laughing when I related this story and her response was, apparently Australia has lost $23 million over the last year to scammers, if you want to add to Americas donations to the same cause, import her, otherwise tell her to stay where she is.
 
PS: She's working on the  womens "floor" theory with men, lay him right the first time and walk all over him for the rest of his life.

+1
Tell wifey she has me rolling on the floor laughing also.  Good one!

[jone]

Pat,

I read your post and, in no way should you ever go into a relationship and issue a bald faced lie. 

I think that our friend, the Op, has created this situation himself by offering more support than is warranted for a beginning relationship.  It is as much his fault as it is hers.  He needs to realize that he is not her savior.  Especially for an individual who is still going through the death throes of a failed marriage.  That is not, nor can it be, his role.

If our Op really feels strongly about this woman, he can slow things down and (almost) close his wallet.  Then the relationship can develop or not develop normally. 

[Paulie]

If our Op really feels strongly about this woman, he can slow things down and (almost) close his wallet.  Then the relationship can develop or not develop normally.

Good idea and that is exactly what I will do. 

[Patagonie]

Pat,

I read your post and, in no way should you ever go into a relationship and issue a bald faced lie. 

I think that our friend, the Op, has created this situation himself by offering more support than is warranted for a beginning relationship.  It is as much his fault as it is hers.  He needs to realize that he is not her savior.  Especially for an individual who is still going through the death throes of a failed marriage.  That is not, nor can it be, his role.

If our Op really feels strongly about this woman, he can slow things down and (almost) close his wallet.  Then the relationship can develop or not develop normally.

Hey Jone, i do agree with this one " think that our friend, the Op, has created this situation himself by offering more support than is warranted for a beginning relationship.  It is as much his fault as it is hers.  He needs to realize that he is not her savior."

And of course he should "slow things down and (almost) close his wallet.  Then the relationship can develop or not develop normally."

Paulie try the poker situation and you will have the moment of truth (if you are emotionnaly ready to do such a thing, but life is short. It is better to be hurted and clear your losses to recover as quickly as possible).

[Boethius]

BTW, this is not "cultural".  If she said the same to a UM, most UM would tell her something to the effect, "Go out into the street and see what you are worth."

Normal human relations aren't built on money. 

[vwrw]

There a Russian version of FB on the Internet, odnoklassniki.ru. Sometimes people answer various questions there. One question that drew my attention was..."without what factor a family is not a family?" In my mind, most Americans would answer "without trust and love". Unfortunately, the answer "trust" was not given as an option at all, which is revealing by itself. The 5 answer options provided are without money (3000 votes), without sex (4500), without a child (16100), without love (80000), and ta-da without respect (124500).

Paulie, may be your GF also[/size] values the presence of respect toward a man much higher then [/size] the presence of trust in him in a relationship and that is why she can build a relationship with you without complete trust in you.

[Faux Pas]

Paulie--those words are very important to you.  Lily above starts to allude to it.

I stand by my earlier post(  pre-nup  = prerequisite!!)-- do not give this relationship away prematurely. In contrast with nearly all the other posters here I think they are missing the point.
The  2 of you are not 20 yo with nothing to lose. You are a mature couple and quite different parameters apply You both have the potential to lose assets and future security that represents a life times work . She will have busted her buns to make a decent life for herself ( and her daughter)-- and the expectation of giving that away and risk everything  on a new relationship is totally unreasonable to my way of thinking.
Those that say she should --  pretty fuzzy thinking  to my mind. The fact that she raised the issue is a good thing-- she does have a business brain and a lot of common sense. It is nothing to do with gold digging or brazen greed-- in her mind it makes sense to have a fall back position. She wants to get it all clear before she commits.
In reality--if you have a few bucks to protect-- to my way of thinking from a pure business point of view-- this is the cheapest deal on offer you will ever have available to exit relationship!! lol
The relationship itself is what should be driving you now-- not a few bucks here and there. To some here it looks like a big ask( I don't particularly like the look of the number specifics quoted) -- to others it is pocket change. Generally speaking if that was all adding someone to my life was going to cost--I would think it is on the bottom end of the real cost scale.
That is the bones  of how I would look at it- interested to see your comments.

BTW-- where in Ukraine was she originally from? ( relevance is that apartments in parts of UKR can easily run $500k plus)

I'm going to have to call bullshit on that JayH. Without trying to steer this thread into another ho hum pre-nup thread, your advice to the OP is akin to giving your drunk friend the keys to the Lamborghini .

Pre-nup isn't the end all protection your claiming and would only protect him up to a financial point. You are advising him to enter into a pre-nup with a woman filled with entitlement. Bad move. Marriage is two people coming together as one with all of life's risks included. If she doesn't trust him, he should leave her where she is and she should stay where she is, if life is to good. Marriage is a risk for both parties.

[vwrw]

Good idea and that is exactly what I will do.

Another important question is whether her distrust in your commitment to your relationship with her is groundless and is a result of  her nature.... or maybe something in your behavior signals to her that  you are not sufficiently committed to your relationship and that is why she wants some guarantees? What do you think Paulie?

[pitbull]

Did the OP propose marriage to the woman or just to live together in the US? If just cohabitation - I understand her request. If marriage - not so much

[Belvis]

or maybe something in your behavior signals to her that  you are not sufficiently committed to your relationship and that is why she wants some guarantees?

So, her price tag for trust is 100 k$.  I'd like to believe in the best and suppose she just has rejected OP in such a way, no mercenary intentions at all.

[TheTraveler]

Wifey just about rolled on the floor laughing when I related this story and her response was, apparently Australia has lost $23 million over the last year to scammers, if you want to add to Americas donations to the same cause, import her, otherwise tell her to stay where she is.
 
PS: She's working on the  womens "floor" theory with men, lay him right the first time and walk all over him for the rest of his life.

"floor theory"

hahaha!!!  classic!

consider that one stolen!

[TheTraveler]

If she said the same to a UM, most UM would tell her something to the effect, "Go out into the street and see what you are worth."

those um/rm know how to turn a phrase!

[Daveman]

I think I am being more than reasonable, even generous, maybe even crazy.  I am wondering if this is a 'conniver.' She HAS told me that Russian women are taken care of like this AND even Turkish men do it. 

My take on it:


Your "inner alarm" is telling you exactly what the situation is.


This is a train wreck in the making.