Curious about mistakes I made

[Patagonie]

Chris from Travel2sevastopol charges $75 for the trip.  I will know all the prices and things before I go.  The interpreter charges $10 per hour. 

Just so everyone understands.  The second email I got from the interpreter included her fee and the estimate of an apartment for 40 to 60 dollars per night depending on the season.  She does not rent apartments, she was just telling me the rate so I would not get overcharged.  I asked her about the apartments from Chris and she recommended which were in the best area of town.

BillyB:  Thank-you, you are right nobody knows, that is the challenge, anyone can look back and say you should not have done this or that, but I am really enjoying reading all of the comments.

10 $ per hour is a very nice price, the question is DO YOU PERSONALY CHOOSE THE INTERPRETER ?
YOU ?
if not it can be anyone with no skill and degree, and it lets lower your guard.

For the moment prices are fine.

[mendeleyev]

I mention it because so many guys complain --misinterpret on buying things.Once a relationship is developed-- accept the responsibility for her and her life( yep--that was me encouraging Paulie!!)-- look at what you would do in your own world-- or what you have done-- apply that where it is even more important to man up !!

Thanks, Jay. I would do that very differently now. You are right that it was a huge mistake. I'd respond much differently and as Gator said earlier, I've bought that dress over and over and over. Gladly I might add.

I still don't see scammers as that big an issue and here is what I mean by that: Don't send money to a lady you haven't met and don't be led around by the nose on expensive shopping trips when you barely know the other person. Additionally, do some research and make sure that you're not being bled dry on taxi fares, translator rates, apartment rents, expensive restaurants, etc. Given some basic homework and common sense, what is left to scam?

Where scams do exist more readily in my opinion, are at the agency level. It is difficult for a guy to tell whether he is writing a real girl or if he has fallen in love with form letters from a computer or with "Hairy Boris" in the front office. That is an agency scam however, not the lady as the scammer in most cases.

[Chelseaboy]

Well,
        I had a Ukrainian prodater try and scam me for money two months after  we'd met in person,and reading the various forums and anti scam sites there are plenty of other men who've had similar experiences after meeting girls there.
 
So,yes the "ladies" are very much involved in the scams out there.
 
 
 

[ML]

Well,
        I had a Ukrainian prodater try and scam me for money two months after  we'd met in person,and reading the various forums and anti scam sites there are plenty of other men who've had similar experiences after meeting girls there.
 
So,yes the "ladies" are very much involved in the scams out there.

I had several dates with a very nice lady professor in Ukraine who was around age 48.  She was not at the top of my list because she didn't have enough humor, frivolous fun at times, told me to act more serious, etc., but I still saw some potential and thought we might meet again on another trip of mine to her city.

We continued to email and some Skype November to next February.
She started telling me about some health problems she was having starting with high blood pressure, etc.

Then, in late February she told me she wanted to go to Vienna for a serious operation because she didn't trust the medical system in Ukraine.  Could I please send her $15,000 to help . . . 'it is for my health.'

Actually, I believed her and didn't think it was part of a scam.

But, it was still pretty brazen of her for a casual acquaintance and not something I was going to do.  I told her I wouldn't be sending the money and that we would not be meeting again.

In a couple of months, she wrote me and said she had gone to Kyiv for the operation.  I wished her well and never wrote again.

[JohnDearGreen]

I personally don't agree with Mendeleyev's comments about non-existent scammers in the FSU.
Ukraine has plenty of prodaters and scammers operating from the "marriage" agencies there,although they are normally in the under 35 group.

The attempted scam often happens after she senses he has no serious interest in her, or after she decides she has no serious interest in him.  Those who hang on and can't recognize those situations are most gullible.  And there are cases of don't-get-mad-get-even.  I would agree with Mende.  Men should have some common sense about when it is a good match and when it isn't there.  It is not a scam to directly ask for money or gifts.  Just say no and leave.  There are beggars on every major street corner in my city.  I don't consider them scammers, even though I don't believe they are all ex-veterans or things their little signs say. 

[Chelseaboy]

Those street beggars don't lure you to their city/country under the pretense that they have a serious interest in becoming your partner.
 
So,they are not really wasting your time,emotion and money....as prodaters/scammers in Ukraine do.
 
There is no comparison between the two.

[calmissile]

The attempted scam often happens after she senses he has no serious interest in her, or after she decides she has no serious interest in him.  Those who hang on and can't recognize those situations are most gullible.  And there are cases of don't-get-mad-get-even.  I would agree with Mende.  Men should have some common sense about when it is a good match and when it isn't there.  It is not a scam to directly ask for money or gifts.  Just say no and leave.  There are beggars on every major street corner in my city.  I don't consider them scammers, even though I don't believe they are all ex-veterans or things their little signs say.

My favorite sign I saw a couple of years ago said............

Why lie?  Need Beer!

[Pkeel]

I just got the cost of the driver from the airport to SEvatopol.  $45.
The cost for the interpreter to come with Elena to pick me up is $40.

[Vasilisa]

So, when she asked about the dress I said no.  She quietly handed the dress back to the salesperson,

OMG, Mendy, I can't believe that. 

[Vasilisa]

Actually, I believed her and didn't think it was part of a scam.

But, it was still pretty brazen of her for a casual acquaintance and not something I was going to do.  I told her I wouldn't be sending the money and that we would not be meeting again.

ML, the story is weird but your reaction is weird , too, if you believed it wasn't scam why to tell you are not going to meet her again and dump her when she was having health problems? It was really mean of you.
 

Millions of people donate money to the strangers they have never met before and you have had several dates with her. If not the money you could have offered some other kind of help and emotional support.

[Pkeel]

Less than two weeks to go until my trip.

I still have to get in and pick out my new phone.  I still have to get to the bank and get some nice crisp clean bills.  I will travel with enough Dolorrof to pay the first few days expenses. 

I have small gifts for her daughter and her mother.  Several small gifts for her and one nice bottle of perfume.  It should be one she will like.  I asked what she liked in perfume and had some help in selecting it.  I got her L'instant magic by Guerlaine.

The time compression is building the anticipation for me.  I think Sevastopol will be a great deal of fun to visit.

[Patagonie]

Generally it is during the first night that i give her "l'instant magique"

[Shadow]

I hope all will go well, but there is a small alarm in the back of my head, which means that I want to put some questions to you.

1. Was her mail always translated by her interpreter ? If not, why does she need one when meeting ?
2. If you look at the mails before she said 'goodbye' and when she decided to go forward, is there anything which would indicate they were not written by the same woman?

While the goodbye and return is not unusual by itself, it could be an indication of trouble. When you meet, be sure she is not surprised to see you and look for signs that may say she was not expecting your arrival as much as you believe.

[Pkeel]

Shadow: 

We have never used an interpreter.  We have used Google translate.  We use it on our Skype conversations as well (calmissiles translator program I cannot figure out)  She speaks as much English as I speak Russian.  немного.  The interpreter will be used as little as possible.  I have an electronic translator and an Ipad to bring with me.  As she has expressed it this trip is to see if we are comfortable with each other just being together and being silent.

The good-bye was shortly after I told her about my health issue and related to whether or not I was capable of taking care of her.  This was also back in December.  I told her then I would not be able to travel until April and she and I have been in regular contact since then.  Including daily Skype sessions since mid February.

Keep in mind we are both traveling for a mutual vacation.  She by train from Shebekino.  I have not given to her nor have I been asked to give her any money.

[mendeleyev]

I will travel with enough Dolorrof

She speaks as much English as I speak Russian.  немного.

долларов и немного; I like that is seems you are learning some Russian, even at a basic level. Keep it up, it will make a difference!

[Pkeel]

Kinda humorous... I have several times typed in phonetic spellings of Russian when I use google translate.  petnatset for fifteen and va skolka for what time seem to happen regularly.

[BlondeSeeker]

Shadow: 

We have never used an interpreter.  We have used Google translate.  We use it on our Skype conversations as well (calmissiles translator program I cannot figure out)  She speaks as much English as I speak Russian.  немного.  The interpreter will be used as little as possible.  I have an electronic translator and an Ipad to bring with me.  As she has expressed it this trip is to see if we are comfortable with each other just being together and being silent.

The good-bye was shortly after I told her about my health issue and related to whether or not I was capable of taking care of her.  This was also back in December.  I told her then I would not be able to travel until April and she and I have been in regular contact since then.  Including daily Skype sessions since mid February.

Keep in mind we are both traveling for a mutual vacation.  She by train from Shebekino.  I have not given to her nor have I been asked to give her any money.

Should check out Google Translate for Android. You can talk to your phone in Russian or English and it will translate for you. It can also do text from pictures and it does not require the internet if you download the language pack for Russian.

[justme100]

I just got the cost of the driver from the airport to SEvatopol.  $45.
The cost for the interpreter to come with Elena to pick me up is $40.

Rather fair cost, I believe it's because of the season,as in summer this price is higher.
Pkeel,I want to wish you a nice meeting and hope you and Elena will both find what you want. If you will have any questions or maybe some advice concerning your trip I will be glad to help you. By the way, it was +26 in Sevastopol yesterday,so you are coming in a good time)hope you will enjoy your stay here)

[LAman]

Rather fair cost, I believe it's because of the season,as in summer this price is higher.
Pkeel,I want to wish you a nice meeting and hope you and Elena will both find what you want. If you will have any questions or maybe some advice concerning your trip I will be glad to help you. By the way, it was +26 in Sevastopol yesterday,so you are coming in a good time)hope you will enjoy your stay here)

Lucky you!!!   My friend said it was +17 a couple days ago while it is freezing cold  snowy in Kiev. I wonder what it is in Odessa??? 

[justme100]

Lucky you!!!   My friend said it was +17 a couple days ago while it is freezing cold  snowy in Kiev. I wonder what it is in Odessa???

well, it was also zero and snowy in Sevastopol last weekend, but things changed.:)don't know as to Odessa)

[Shadow]

Shadow: 

We have never used an interpreter.  We have used Google translate.  We use it on our Skype conversations as well (calmissiles translator program I cannot figure out)  She speaks as much English as I speak Russian.  немного.  The interpreter will be used as little as possible.  I have an electronic translator and an Ipad to bring with me.  As she has expressed it this trip is to see if we are comfortable with each other just being together and being silent.

The good-bye was shortly after I told her about my health issue and related to whether or not I was capable of taking care of her.  This was also back in December.  I told her then I would not be able to travel until April and she and I have been in regular contact since then.  Including daily Skype sessions since mid February.

Keep in mind we are both traveling for a mutual vacation.  She by train from Shebekino.  I have not given to her nor have I been asked to give her any money.

Seems ok, try to use the interpreter as little as possible. For instance for 'serious talks' only. Remember that she should not be part of your relationship.

[ukthesis]

I found that message very moving and we should give a big thanks to the gentleman who took the time to write it. 

There are a couple of queries I have, as a newbie, so I hope you'll have patience.

First, what is a Pro-Dater?

Secondly, why are men still so attracted to the Russian gals?  After all, there are loads of potential problems involved ... and there are, I'm sure, suitable women who live in the closer Western Europe for example who are more likely to speak English, so any scamming is that much harder to perform on site, and if anything goes wrong, more likely to be near an urban centre from which there are regular flights back to the US, UK, etc. and people around the place who also speak English to help.  Finally, there are fewer visa issues ...

From my very cursory reading at a few messages on the forum, and as someone who only recently got interested in them, I wonder why guys even bother with the Russians - if they are so troublesome.  Or is this only part of the story?

[Pkeel]

Pro-Dater from what I have read, I have no first hand experience at all, is a woman that gets you to come to see her and she then works to get you to pay for everything she possibly can.  This is sometimes done with the help of overpriced interpreters, drivers, and apartment rentals.

For me I became interested in Russian women because I dated a woman here that came over 15 years ago.  I really liked her.  She was more honest and frank than any of the American women that I dated.  She also was very intelligent and always dressed very nicely.  She also was more than willing to let me open doors and help her on with her coat.  Some American women became indignant when I did that. 

As for the fraud...  I have remained friendly, swapping occasional emails, with two other Russian women from Elenasmodels.  Let me say that I think the majority of the women are not interested in fraud.  Read the tips, learn the signs and don't let the fear get in the way.  I have dated my share of AW that were more than willing to let me spend money on expensive dinners, tickets to Cirque de Soleil etc. 

[ukthesis]

Thanks for that.  Can you tell me more about this:

"Read the tips, learn the signs and don't let the fear get in the way"

What are the early signs of a Pro-Dater, before you pay to go to the Ukraine to meet her?  How can you try to avoid one of these women before any money is paid out?

[mendeleyev]

First scam alert: if some travel agent tries to sell you a ticket to the Ukraine, don't send money! There is a beautiful country known simply as Ukraine, worth seeing in fact, however a quick look at the map reveals that you won't find a country named "the" Ukraine. 

I'd think that a pro-dater wouldn't be interested in deepening the relationship in emails and Skype. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems to me that a pro-dater wouldn't want to waste time in extended conversations other than just enough to get you on an airplane. She'd likely be too busy for small talk now, all the while telling you that the meeting face to face will reveal everything.

Additionally, the more you participate in the planning process of travel, apartment, taxi, etc, the less it leaves a pro-dater to maintain interest because you're shaving away the profits and haven't even arrived yet.

When led to an expensive restaurant you normally wouldn't reserve for a date so early in a relationship, there is nothing wrong with saying "I'd like something more casual and intimate, so let's find a quiet little cafe." As for shopping, nobody should drag you thru a bunch of boutique shops asking you to buy things when you've just met face to face some days earlier. Keeping your credit card in your pocket stops pro-dating shopping in it's tracks.

In my mind a guy must take his first trip on the basis that nothing will come of it but the trip will be an exciting vacation. If you do that, it will be hard to scam you and you'll be fine.

If the gal gets mad and stomps off, taking her overpriced translator and driver with her, so what? Get on with the vacation and use the time to get a feel for the country and culture so that next time you'll travel with more experience. This is a very good reason for not allowing a lady you've never met to be in charge of all the arrangements of where you'll live and how you'll get there.

As to actual scams, the biggest single one is letter writing to Hairy Boris who pretends to be your girlfriend, with you paying for the letters and translations. Once you begin making plans to get on a plane Hairy Boris usually finds a reason to disappear. You're past the Hairy Boris stage.

As to shopping, overpriced restaurants, and buying drinks for her friends who just happened to show up at the same the club, it is easy to say "nyet" which will stop a pro-dater in her tracks. The word that sounds like "no" in her language means "but" so if you're being hustled into a jewelry or cell phone store, simply say "nyet" to avoid any confusion.

Now, stop worrying about the pro-daters and go have a nice vacation. If your vacation yields a lovely lady with whom you share many interests and decide to take the relationship further, consider it an extra bonus.