AFA BUSTED RUNNING SEX TOURS

[fathertime]

In truth, however, things like this are not cut and dry.  Far from it. 

AFA may as well be Jamie's place in B.  Most situations are always the same: There are good men in a site / agencie, and their are bad men.  There are good women in bad agencies / sites.   And bad women in good agencies / sites.  Hell, I know several women that took "sponsors" and then married AM, and are now living in the USA. 

It is almost impossible to apply a protestant lens to these situations.

What is inescapable is that in ALL these situations there is a very obvious BENEFIT for the man and the woman .... a benefit that is not usually a part of one's  natural dating pool.  The woman's life is materially affected very positively by being pulled out of poverty.  With a proposal of marriage, the woman's life takes a dramatically different turn that is more prosperous.   Thus, there are natural overlays with other similar social situations - sugar dating? / sugar marriage?

Maybe all this matters; but maybe it does not.  Because at the end of the day a man meets a woman, and anything is possible.  Both are adults and approach the situation with baggage.  What type of influence will  the man be for the woman and the woman for the man?  That is the only important issue IMO.

The additions seem reasonable enough.


Fathertime! 

[GoodOlBoy]

What is AFA?
Also the video doesn't work.

You may also find this "tour lady" from 2006 interesting Nathan. 
 
If you study the picture closely, you will notice the rug burns on her knees.
 
Gee-whiz..... I wonder how she got those? 
 
GOB

PS.... I sincerely hope I am not attacking anyone's spouse here on RWD Daveman?

[IAmZon]

You may also find this "tour lady" interesting also Nathan.   If you study the picture closely, you will notice the rug burns on her knees.

Gee-whiz..... I wonder how she got those?

How strange for a man to think this way?   All my girl friends have had rug burns.   I have had rug burns.  I am happiest in life when I have them often.   

In what type of world do you wish to live?

[GoodOlBoy]

I guess that "Coach" bag to the right of her (the one some poor old goat paid for) isn't big enough to carry a pair of these? 
 
GOB

[Vinnvinny]

Forgetting for a moment that the photo has nothing to do with AFA and nobody can be sure what the mark was a carpet burn, what I find outrages is that she is under 35 and wears a dress above her knee!!! It’s the start of the end of civilisation if you ask me, next they’ll be going out without their chastity belts on and speaking to beings of the opposite sex.

[Larry1]

Forgetting for a moment that the photo has nothing to do with AFA and nobody can be sure what the mark was a carpet burn, what I find outrages is that she is under 35 and wears a dress above her knee!!! It’s the start of the end of civilisation if you ask me, next they’ll be going out without their chastity belts on and speaking to beings of the opposite sex.

Yes, indeed.  Not to mention her scandalous décolletage, which undoubtedly contributes to immoral lust in fellows young and old.  This trend won't be stopped until Western society adopts sharia and enforces norms for women wearing clothing that is modest. 

[Turboguy]

Next time TG posts here, maybe he can tell all of us how much his "tag along" son paid for sex in Ukraine?

 
GOB

That depends on how you define "paid".   Since I paid for the tour that throws another variable in.   OK, well here is the expanded answer.   Actually he only got laid once on the tour but made a trip back to spend a week with one of the ladies he met on the tour and that was the other time he got laid but it wasn't actually on that trip.


As far as getting laid on the tour, he and some of the guys went out to a night club and he met a gal that came back to his room.  Other than buying her some drinks there was no exchange of money.   When he went back for his follow up trip was the other time he got laid and there was no direct payment for that, just maybe some gifts he bought her. 


So if we look at how much the sex cost between the airfare, the tour and hotels he could have had a really hot hooker here for a lot more sex so I don't think being a sex tourist is very wise use of money.

[Turboguy]

Getting back to the subject of does AFA do sex tours?  This is second hand but back 5 years or so ago we had a member here named William Livingston who was the immigration attorney for AFA and back in the hay day of tours went along on the tours so the guys could do instant K-1 applications right on site.   After all you have spent a couple of days with the gal and maybe even got a kiss on the cheek, why not just get the paperwork going so this hot young chick can come back to your double wide and share your food stamps with as little lost time as possible. 


William claimed they did run sex tours but as I recall they were supposed to be separate from the romance tours or sometimes a continuation.   I do think the women were provided and it was a one price covers all the sex you can handle without a heart attack.  I don't recall that much of the details but to me he would be someone who knew for sure one way or the other.

[GoodOlBoy]

After all you have spent a couple of days with the gal and maybe even got a kiss on the cheek, why not just get the paperwork going so this hot young chick can come back to your double wide and share your food stamps with as little lost time as possible. 

 
Good post Turbo, concerning FSU tours and some of the mentalities involved.
Just had to ad a little somethin' though. 
 
 
"After all you have spent a couple of days with the gal and maybe even got a kiss on the cheek, why not just get the paperwork going so this hot young chick can come back to your rented double wide and share your food stamps with as little lost time as possible."
 
GOB

[ML]

The double wide and even rented double wide might be possible.

But food stamps??

I thought there was some minimum income requirement; which would probably make ineligible for food stamps.

I know there was meant to be humor . . . but just wondering.

[Turboguy]

It was meant as humor but without doing any research I have a feeling someone could qualify for food stamps and still be above the poverty level.  It is also possible for someone under the poverty level to have a co-signer that would allow them to bring in a K-1 visa gal.


I have seen some people who were not well off attempt this.  On my first EC tour one of the guys along was a really goofy oddball who was a tow truck driver and saved $ 50.00 a week until he had enough money to pay for the tour.  One other gal who had a toursit visa and visited me called me out of the blue and asked me to rescue her.  She was meeting a guy who ended up living in a double wide and wasn't treating her very well.  The guy who showed me my first RW catalog way back when was on welfare and food stamps and lived in a house with no water that was on the verge of falling down.  The house is now gone so I assume it did fall down.

[IAmZon]

William claimed they did run sex tours but as I recall they were supposed to be separate from the romance tours or sometimes a continuation.   I do think the women were provided and it was a one price covers all the sex you can handle without a heart attack.

No S$it!  You know, I have tried very hard to see the more edgy side of life. Perhaps I am just too vain, but such an affairs seems very lacking to me.


I did an interview with Dana Dane last week. She is a award winning firm director, famous for lesbian erotica.  Here new project is "How To Make Love Like A Lesbian."  Seems like it should be required reading around these parts.

[Boethius]

The problem with sex tours, and the nonchalant attitude some display toward them, is that they are inevitably a form of exploitation.   You don't see sex tours to first world countries, other than Amsterdam and those are highly regulated and have been curtailed quite a bit.


This week, there was an article in a Ukrainian paper about police raiding a brothel in the Chelsea area of London, where Ukrainian girls and women had been held, unwillingly, as sex slaves.  Human trafficking is a huge problem for Ukrainians, both male and female, and Western companies making money off the backs of poor people in this way, even if sold as "bride tours" is immoral and disgusting.

[IAmZon]

This week, there was an article in a Ukrainian paper about police raiding a brothel in the Chelsea area of London, where Ukrainian girls and women had been held, unwillingly, as sex slaves.  Human trafficking is a huge problem for Ukrainians, both male and female, and Western companies making money off the backs of poor people in this way, even if sold as "bride tours" is immoral and disgusting.

That is exactly what I was trying to say.


I can't imagine the attraction / desire to have sex with a person without a connection and passion.  Seems like a very poor substitute for masturbation to me.   There must be a sense of self attainment even in casual sex IMO, and that must be mutual between the two having sex - not one, or the other. Maybe I am just old fashioned.

[Boethius]

Maybe I am just old fashioned.

Or a romantic. 

[fathertime]

That is exactly what I was trying to say.


I can't imagine the attraction / desire to have sex with a person without a connection and passion.  Seems like a very poor substitute for masturbation to me.   There must be a sense of self attainment even in casual sex IMO, and that must be mutual between the two having sex - not one, or the other. Maybe I am just old fashioned.

You either got very old or had your nuts chopped off if you can’t even IMAGINE having sex with a woman without a connection.  What happens when you imagine, do you burst into tears or something?   Are  you even sure you are the single guy who ran all those tours or maybe you are just trying to score points with the ladies here, because that reads like one of the biggest loads of horsesh:t ever, because you sure as hell ain't old-fashioned. 

Fathertime!   

[Boethius]

There are plenty of men for whom sex is more than animals rutting.

[Gator]

There are plenty of men for whom sex is more than animals rutting.

I am one of those.  Not sure we number in the "plenty of men."   
 
Confession time.   I was a fraternity pledge my freshmen year at my university.  Older women would sometimes call our frat house, wanting to party.  So three of us one day answered the call, and drove to her house (I had the car). 
 
The woman was about 35-40, and we started.  I was second in line.  I had earlier lost my virginity to someone my age from my church choir, a future opera singer in Germany.  With the choir singer, it seemed clumsy but right.  With the older woman, I felt rushed and most of all it did not feel right.  I could not perform, so she angrily told me to leave.  While the third pledge brother was doing her, I sat in the living room. 
 
Who comes to the door?  Her teenage daughter arriving from school, asking "What is the meaning of this."  Mama scrambled and said,  "These are college boys making some extra money helping me clean the house."  Cowardly and stupidly, I hustled out the door.  That was bad and sat me back for a long, long time.  I still wonder how the mother and daughter resolved that episode.   Interestingly, both of my pledge brothers also felt remorse. 
 
Yes, I must feel a connection of some sort, not necessarily love but something of a kindred spirit.  If not feeling it, I don't start.  Works both ways as I was refused many times because the woman was not feeling it with me.   
 
Believe it or not, its the truth.  Fathertime, I am not gay, and never have had the gay thought.  I will not comment further.  and knowing this crowd, I probably have said too much.

[fathertime]

There are plenty of men for whom sex is more than animals rutting.

I am not writing about “Plenty of men”, but rather a man who has dedicated much of his life to sex and other related fields, who now suddenly cringes at the thought of imagining sex without the proper and obligatory ‘wining and dining’.  YOU are the only one talking about ‘animals rutting’ at this point.    As a woman, have you become the spokesperson for Zon now?   What other insights do you have about what Zon and other single men IMAGINE?  I don’t think it is a problem if a single man briefly imagines relations with another woman, before he has a 'connection' with her, so I wouldn't begrudge Zon if he did...I just don't believe his earlier proper statement which definitely sounded judgmental to me.   
Fathertime! 

[Boethius]

I am not Zon's spokesperson.  However, I have lived with a man for over a quarter century, one from whom nothing is hidden and vice versa, and I also know how he thought as a single man.  You have Gator's story as a young single man above.


I reacted to this -

You either got very old or had your nuts chopped off if you can’t even [/size]IMAGINE[/size] having sex with a woman without a connection.

which tends to indicate a general statement, rather than one directed at what you assume to be Zon's life.

[fathertime]

I am not Zon's spokesperson.  However, I have lived with a man for over a quarter century, one from whom nothing is hidden and vice versa, and I also know how he thought as a single man.  You have Gator's story as a young single man above.

It is very doubtful you knew the inner thoughts of your husband when he was a single man.  Even when nothing is hidden, something is hidden, probably hidden so well you don't even realize it is hidden...and that doesn't have to be a bad thing.  I am certainly glad that many women are so idealistic.  Men need that break. 


 Comparing Zon to a man you have lived with for a quarter of a century is comparing apples to hand grenades.   


Fathertime! 

[Boethius]

It is very doubtful you knew the inner thoughts of your husband when he was a single man.  Even when nothing is hidden, something is hidden, probably hidden so well you don't even realize it is hidden...and that doesn't have to be a bad thing.  I am certainly glad that many women are so idealistic.  Men need that break. 


 Comparing Zon to a man you have lived with for a quarter of a century is comparing apples to hand grenades.   


Fathertime!

I never posted I was comparing Zon to my husband.  And yes, I do know what my husband thought when he was single, because I asked.  He does not lie, so I know exactly how his life was conducted before, and after me.

[Gator]

Fathertime, we all have fantasized at one time or another.  But could you bang a girl too young for you who is sitting  on your lap because she is not well adjusted?  And you are experienced enough to know it?   

[Gator]

And yes, I do know what my husband thought when he was single, because I asked.  He does not lie, so I know exactly how his life was conducted before, and after me.

Yes, you knew the history of his actions.  But are you sure you knew his thoughts?  Some of my thoughts I would never share.

[Boethius]

We have no secrets.  That was from the very beginning.   Before we married, he told me we should be "one soul".  Here is the quote of a famous philosopher, which he gave me before our marriage, to set out the ideal by which he wanted us to live our married life -

The union of man and woman in marriage is both natural and spiritual, i.e., is a physical relationship and one that is also self-conscious, and it is entered into on the basis of the free consent of the persons. Since this consent involves bringing two persons into a union, there is the mutual surrender of their natural individuality for the sake of union, which is both a self-restriction and also a liberation because in this way individuals attain a higher self-consciousness.