Sad day

[BillyB]

When Aloe first moved to Belgium, she was home all day.   Aloe posted that her husband complained about her failure to vacuum and maintain their apartment.  I supported her position then, and still do, because he made demands, rather than approach what was a minor problem in a reasonable fashion.  She didn't post that he grabbed her, though, IIRC.

The physical stuff didn't start at the beginning and it's possible Aloe's hubby did approach the problem in a reasonable fashion before he made demands. My advice to Aloe was to wake up earlier, get off the internet and vacuum more often. It seemed sleep and this forum was more important than hubby. Lack of cleaning is a small problem but there was a big problem not many people noticed. She was neglecting hubby by not doing her part in the marriage.

[GQBlues]

...I very much doubt that your standards for "good husband" are that low.  I assert that hubby has not been a good hubby, much less suggest that hubby is trying to be "everything. everytime, everyday 24-7."  GQ is so wrong with what he implies, yet you support his position....
GQ, being the skeptic he is, correctly points to the fact that we do not have the hubby's testimony.  However, if only one third of what Aloe reports is true, this is an "open and shut case" against hubby.

What a hoot!
 
You suffer from reading comprehension, old fart.  There are 2 paragraphs in the post Boethius quoted. The first was a suggestion pertaining directly to the OP's marriage. The second paragraph pertain to relationships in general. You want to challenge that statement, do it. Heck, you ought to know the merit in that statement considering your two (maybe more? - LOL) failed marriages.
 
For a 2-time (actually maybe more) loser, what the heck do you really know about success in relationships, much less marital bliss anyway? I mean look at you now, you've resigned yourself having to marry someone you can't even talk to. *Egads! she meant 'salt', Phil - not soap. You don't remedy the common cold by inhaling warm water with soap. You use salt!*..and you're pretending to be in a position of authority when it comes to 'successful' relationship?  Dude, you're a clown.
 
This is what I mean when I said upthread getting advice to successfully handle a marriage from a bunch of divorced people, much less repeat offenders, is just plain nuts, if not downright ridiculous.

.....
I don't think Aloe was looking for perfection...or a 24/7 hubby.....just someone that showed some caring,
someone that showed some love........more often.......daily would be nice!!!! Is that too much to ask for???? Not for the women I would  love!!!!

LAMan, when did you meet Aloe's husband and how well do you know their relationship? I'm curious as you seem to have a deep knowledge of what ails their marriage. Are you definitely sure Aloe's hubby never gave her love and care everyday? 10 hrs/day? One day/wk?
 
Mind sharing some of these facts here with us?
 
Now I realize Aloe's come here plenty of times posting some pretty negative things about her hubby, but maybe you missed the numerous times she's also come here saying he's literally the second-coming. The abuse part, regardless of what Yohan believes, need not have to involve broken bones or bleeding, but then I'm not a sword-wielding wannabe Conan, the Barber either - that part is just plain stupid and no woman should ever have to stand in any type of abuse, whether it's physical, mental, financial, emotional, etc... 
 
Beyond the abuse, I've refrained from giving advice on what Aloe need to do with her relationship simply because of Aloe's perpetual emotional ebb with her hubby coupled with her rollecoaster, ever-changing outlook with their marriage.
 
How can an advice be valid if there's only ONE side / one person drawing you a picture of the events in their relationship? Even the paid shrink she's seen wouldn't dare depart with what you all seem too easy depart with - and Aloe personally relayed things to her IN PERSON - and she's a professional.
 
All that's ever been done here thus far is perpetuate what was already a volatile situation between these two by adding more fuel to Aloe's attitude towards their life and marriage. If you guys aren't getting the entire picture - what the heck makes you folks believe that whatever it is you guys are dishing out is the right path for Aloe to take (again, beyond the abuse as that is just unforgiveable, IMO)?
 
Like everyone else, I can see and understand Aloe as having a  high likeability factor, but sometimes she also strikes me as someone with a fair degree of an undeniable spoiled-rotten, almost-immature quality about her as well. I just cannot for the life of me determine how can anyone talk so negatively about someone they profess 'love' to so easily.
 
Bottom line is...you folks need to be careful trying to act like Dr. Phil because that soap boxes you folks are standing on is pretty darn transparent.

[Muzh]

I've got an impression that Aloe came from pretty well off family, so her demands are based on her habits from pre-merital life.   Another thing that it is possible to adjust to new reality but...   we have what we have in this case...

My ex-wife came from a middle class family (NOT rich) so she should have never demanded a flat in Manhattan complete with a live in maid, right? 

Just saying, it all depends on the person.

[Muzh]

All that's ever been done here thus far is perpetuate what was already a volatile situation between these two by adding more fuel to Aloe's attitude towards their life and marriage. If you guys aren't getting the entire picture - what the heck makes you folks believe that whatever it is you guys are dishing out is the right path for Aloe to take (again, beyond the abuse as that is just unforgiveable, IMO)?
 
Like everyone else, I can see and understand Aloe as having a  high likeability factor, but sometimes she also strikes me as someone with a fair degree of an undeniable spoiled-rotten, almost-immature quality about her as well. I just cannot for the life of me determine how can anyone talk so negatively about someone they profess 'love' to so easily.
 

LMAO

Almost??

GQ, consider this. She is obviously very smart as you've seen her writing. Have you ever considered that her mind was already made up and then needed the reassurance from others to take this step? I'm thinking back about statements she has made regarding mother and don't remember if it was in chat or here so I'll not divulge any more.

Of course, it is just conjecture on my part. Still, and based on previous examples I've witnessed, I'd say this is a very good conjecture.

She definitely has to get a grip of herself. She has to determine what she wants to do with her life. Either take the bull by the horns or be a kept woman. BUT, she has to decide what. No more wishy-washy.

BTW, I love your new avatar. What do you call him? Barack Bush or George Obama? It is so damn appropriate today.

[Gator]

 
You suffer from reading comprehension, old fart. 

Thank you for recognizing that I am able to comprehend what I read.  I consider it an important skill, and nothing so harmful as to suggest your term "suffer." 
 
 

[Gator]

There are 2 paragraphs in the post Boethius quoted. The first was a suggestion pertaining directly to the OP's marriage. The second paragraph pertain to relationships in general.

Let us examine your two paragraphs.
 

Dunno. Aside from the physical abuse part of the marriage, I think Aloe's marriage is a girlfriend away (not necessarily a Russian) from this marriage having a better chance of succeeding.

Yes, you are discussing Aloe's relationship.   However, your message is unclear so I could not follow the merits of your point.  For example, who should get a girlfriend, hubby or Aloe?  Or do you believe Aloe's relationship would improve if she behaved more like a girlfriend than a wife?   Or....         
 
So we go to your second paragraph. 

 

Beyond the abuse, and not taking the female's side for granted - it aint easy being everything, everytime, everyday for anyone 24/7 beyond being a good husband.

Good words, especially considering the writer.  However, just because you start a new paragraph does not mean the subject has changed.  How should we know that this is not specific to Aloe's relationship?  You mentioned abuse, a key part of Aloe's story.  You mentioned "taking the female's side for granted," again something happening with Aloe's story.
 
Even if you are talking about relationships in general,   Aloe's marriage is a relationship.  Related to this, I challenged the merits of anyone suggesting her hubby is a good husband, much less trying to be everything.....24/7. 
 
That was all. 

[Gator]

 
This is what I mean when I said upthread getting advice to successfully handle a marriage from a bunch of divorced people, much less repeat offenders, is just plain nuts, if not downright ridiculous.
 

My advice is for Aloe to continue to work with her psychologist.   Is that nuts?   I also stated that she should be looking for trends in hubby to suggest that he is endeavoring to make the relationship less stressful for Aloe.   Is that nuts?
 
GQ, in many of these stories you tend to take the side of the alleged offender who has not spoken for himself.  For example, in a thread about the Boston bombings, you argued that the Tsaranaev brothers were getting unjustifiably railroaded.  Why do you do this?  RWD is not an adjudication hearing. 

[Ooooops]

My ex-wife came from a middle class family (NOT rich) so she should have never demanded a flat in Manhattan complete with a live in maid, right? 

Just saying, it all depends on the person.

Where were your eyes when you married a Jewish Princess?   


As everything if we step away from generalization.   

[SFandEE]

He also said he doesn't like that i never stick to any plan. That is so unappreciative of all the effort i've done here. It was 4 years that i have been here last week. In 4 yrs time ive learned a new language from 0, and am almost done receiving a degree in this language (2 yrs out of 3 done). When ppl find this out, they are always amazed and compliment me on my motivation and ability. When i first began in this university, professors said i had no chance of passing, and that in 30 yrs they've never seen a foreigner who studied dutch for less than 6 years pass the exams, but i passed them all. Apparently hubby calls this not sticking to any plan.. I find that i've done an amazing job sticking to this. Incredible effort for me and a feat of discipline (for me), but apparently unappreciated. Hubby says it comes easy to me without any work or effort. I feel like my efforts are kind of unappreciated.
Surely, sometimes i get excited and come up with all sorts of ideas of moving to england/canada/australia/thailand/america, but just because i change my mind about the future, doesn't mean i'm not sticking to a plan I am doing something and have been doing something towards the same end result for 4 years now (getting a degree), i think that's plenty of sticking.

Just seeing this thread Aloe.  You did great to achieve all of this and I am glad you see this as sticking to a plan, I agree with you.  Hope you are doing well today and that things will get better for you soon.

[GoodOlBoy]

Just curious, are you familiar with this forum Aloe?
 
http://www.russian-belgium.be/forum
 
GOB

[Muzh]

Where were your eyes when you married a Jewish Princess?   


As everything if we step away from generalization.   

Ooops, really, you don't want to know. Even thoough I have this sneaky suspicion you already know. 

[Aloe]

We have very different views of respect for the roles in marriage, I suppose.


In my hubby's family, both his grandfathers thanked their wives for preparing family meals.  When I prepare a meal, after dinner, my husband always kisses my hand and thanks me for preparing his meal.  Now, I am not in any way in the league of cooks the Grandmother with whom he grew up was.  She would make Julia Child look like a rank amateur.  However, he still appreciates the effort, just as I appreciate when he fills my car, or shovels the walks, or changes my flat tire, or fixes the plumbing.  I always thank him because I want to be constantly reminded not to take him for granted. 


I have always worked and supported myself.  I never needed a man to support me, but I still appreciate the fact my husband goes to work to support his family.

When i cook and call hubby to the table, i have to wait 5 to 30 minutes for him to be done with his game, then he comes, wolfs it down within minutes, never saying if its yummy or making any comments unless i ask, never saying thank you, and then he sits there bored looking at the ceiling or his empty plate or my plate, and tries to run off to the PC. No wonder i dont cook every day  I have also asked him multiple times to come keep me company in the kitchen for a bit, he doesn't come in most cases, and when he does it's for about 30 seconds.

[Aloe]

Have you ever considered that her mind was already made up and then needed the reassurance from others to take this step?

Yes, i think that is very possible. First it was to vent, but then probably that.

Anyway, talking about my relationship doesn't have any merit anymore, because we are divorcing Hubby seems pretty pleased with it too. The atmosphere is very nice at our house, we still are nice friends and get along great, and everyone is excited (and also scared) anticipating the new opportunities. I've been looking for a studio for a while now, but it's difficult to find one in acceptable condition close to school.


In fact we seem to be getting along a little better now than before. Now that nobody is guilt-ridden anymore.

[Aloe]

I think we became too familiar and took each other for granted: my barely ever cleaning, and hubby doing hubby stuff. I think i'll make much more effort for the household in my next relationship. And i'll actually have experience of living by myself by then, i'll have to become lots more independent. Never lived on my own before.

[fathertime]

When i cook and call hubby to the table, i have to wait 5 to 30 minutes for him to be done with his game, then he comes, wolfs it down within minutes, never saying if its yummy or making any comments unless i ask, never saying thank you, and then he sits there bored looking at the ceiling or his empty plate or my plate, and tries to run off to the PC. No wonder i dont cook every day  I have also asked him multiple times to come keep me company in the kitchen for a bit, he doesn't come in most cases, and when he does it's for about 30 seconds.

symbiotic enabling relationship. Hopefully you can break the pattern or cut bait.  Good luck.


Fathertime!

[Misha]

And i'll actually have experience of living by myself by then, i'll have to become lots more independent. Never lived on my own before.

This is key. Figure out what you like to do, what is important to you and live before you try to settle down.

[GQBlues]

...GQ, consider this. She is obviously very smart as you've seen her writing. Have you ever considered that her mind was already made up and then needed the reassurance from others to take this step? I'm thinking back about statements she has made regarding mother and don't remember if it was in chat or here so I'll not divulge any more...

Yeah...I'm on the camp where people reach a point in their lives where they need to spread their wings and start making life decisions by themselves and for themselves. Otherwise, that *kid* in all of us will never have a chance to grow-up. Making mistakes in life that you can learn from is part of living. I can live with mistakes because of decisions I made, than live with the mistake because I allowed other people to make that decision for me. Especially by those unfit or unqualified.
 

...BTW, I love your new avatar. What do you call him? Barack Bush or George Obama? It is so damn appropriate today.

It really is two sides of the same coin, when all is said and done. Our majority chose our president so I have to respect that choice. I'm now completely convinced that as Bush did before him, the President have the dubious position to make decisions based on information that you and I can never be privileged to. My only annoyance is Diane Feinstein really. She once led a senate panel to investigate Bush in what was a volatile subject before, but had now taken the lead to defend NSA's surveillance and the targeting of US citizens.
 
But, the next election is still 4 years away...so I'll just confine this banter to a murmur...

[Gator]

Yes, i think that is very possible. First it was to vent, but then probably that.

Anyway, talking about my relationship doesn't have any merit anymore, because we are divorcing Hubby seems pretty pleased with it too. The atmosphere is very nice at our house, we still are nice friends and get along great, and everyone is excited (and also scared) anticipating the new opportunities.


In fact we seem to be getting along a little better now than before. Now that nobody is guilt-ridden anymore.

I hope your relationship remains amicable throughout the divorce process.  In America, the attitude of the two attorneys has a large influence on whether a couple continues as friends.   Divorce attorneys can be very aggressive and make the divorce contentious.  OTOH, many attorneys attempt to develop what is termed a collaborated divorce.     
 
In your case, the divorce should be simple.  There is not much property nor money, and no children.  Just prepare the documents and return you to single life.   Without any bones to fight over, most attorneys should try to be collaborative. 
 
I know nothing of Belgian divorce law.  You, however, should be careful with the attorney whom you select to represent you, especially if divorce can affect your immigration process.
 
I wish you well.

[Ooooops]

Good luck, Aloe!       Living alone for a while may be good for you - it will give you the chance to figure out what do you want for yourself in the future.

[OlgaH]

I think we became too familiar and took each other for granted: my barely ever cleaning, and hubby doing hubby stuff. I think i'll make much more effort for the household in my next relationship. And i'll actually have experience of living by myself by then, i'll have to become lots more independent. Never lived on my own before.

Aloe, IMHO a relationship doesn't depend on the efforts for the household  or efforts to satisfy your partner as much as possible, but rather on how much you have in common with your partner. When you determine for yourself who you are and what you want - your life goals, you will find a partner with whom you can share your life without questioning each other who and how much makes efforts. Arguments are normal part of any relationship, but they should never take a feeling of being special away, and it is always easy to resolve the arguments when you have more in common than you try your best to make efforts.

Your independent life can be a good opportunity for you to find yourself and experience yourself.  Depends only on you.  Good luck.

[GoodOlBoy]

Hubby seems pretty pleased with it too. The atmosphere is very nice at our house,....

I don't mean to offend you Aloe, but hubby has probably already found a "replacement" to choke, shake and smack around. 
 
I just hope and pray she is a "local girl" and not another Russian Woman.
 
GOB
 

[Vasilisa]

No, Faux Pas, I don't think I can do and I don't practice magic 

Regarding the divorce rate if to compare the studies between Russia and the US, the divorce rate is rather higher in Russia. It is also can be explain that Russians tend to marry earlier.

According to UN Demographic Yearbook Russia has the highest rate divorce in the World... also is leading in suicide rate.

Where exactly does it lead?!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
or maybe here?
http://terrific-top10.com/2012/04/08/top-10-countries-with-the-highest-suicide-rates/
Divorce rates
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_div_rat-people-divorce-rate

Olga, seriously, what is the political party you work on?

[Anotherkiwi]

I think we became too familiar and took each other for granted: my barely ever cleaning, and hubby doing hubby stuff. I think i'll make much more effort for the household in my next relationship. And i'll actually have experience of living by myself by then, i'll have to become lots more independent. Never lived on my own before.

"Think" isn't enough, Aloe - you will "have to."  I don't mean just doing household chores like cooking and cleaning, but involving your boyfriend/husband in what you're doing so that both of you feel proud about your house/apartment/dacha/whatever.

[BillyB]

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_div_rat-people-divorce-rate

That divorce rate is misleading. Click on the link in upper left corner of your link and you'll find America also has the most marriages in the world per 1000 people too. When you walk more than most people, there's a good chance you'll also fall more than most people. It's silly for those who don't walk much to criticize a person for falling at a higher rate.


Click on the the "Divorce per 100 people and that is a better measure of what's going on. Belgium is leading although Russia used to lead the category with Ukraine a second a few years ago but they aren't even on the list this time. The information Russia and Ukraine are putting out on the divorce is misleading. They couldn't have dropped over 20 percentage points in a matter of a few years.

I think i'll make much more effort for the household in my next relationship.

Too little, too late. That is one of the reasons a few of us didn't feel sorry for you. Both you and your hubby's behavior bred more bad behavior. I blame your hubby more. As a MAN, he should have taken the lead to fix the problems. Maybe he did? Maybe you didn't respond to his requests to make things better? There are women out there that can't be pleased no matter how much a guy takes the lead or tries to make her happy.


You've taken the little criticism you've receive and handled it well and learned something from it based off what you said. Your beauty will catch you another man easily but if you want a quality man and a successful relationship, you need to have some value other than beauty. I may consider having a beautiful girlfriend who's lazy for a short time but I would never make her my wife.


It's important you don't think you were mostly in the right although most people were on your side. What would the criticism be if you were a guy named Al instead of a woman named Aloe under the same circumstances? This forum would have ripped you apart.


Al comes to the forum mentioning his marriage. No evidence of physical or verbal on the honeymoon.


Months later Al comes to forum saying wifey is making demands he take out the garbage and do the landscaping more often. Will people here say "shame on wifey for making demands" or tell Al to grow up since he is not capable of responding to simple requests earlier in the marriage?


Year later Al comes to forum saying things are getting physical. Al was going to throw a glass but wifey grabbed him by the throat and took it out of his hand. During disputes wifey prefers solitude but Al has to have his say and continues to complain to wifey some more, so wifey starts to resort to physical means to push him against the wall to end the disputes. Will people here recommend Al to call the police on wifey or tell Al to get off his lazy but?


Wifey works and Al doesn't. Al sleeps till noon and does little for the house. Although wifey's efforts working provides Al with, food, clothing, a home, and an education, Al wants more and wants to travel the world. He complains wifey doesn't appreciate his efforts in school. Will people here tell Al he should be appreciated as they've done for you" Or will they tell him "You should get on your knees and thank your wife for tolerating your lazy azz!"


Years later Al has a plan to move out into a separate apartment to be closer to school but in reality he's looking to live life alone testing the waters on what it's like. He then comes to the forum and asks women if they'd date a married man. Will the forum be polite with Al or jump on him for creating a secret exit plan that may include adultery?


 I don't know what it is with some people but if it's a woman with issues, they'll give her the benefit of the doubt, but if it's a man with issues, they'll assume he's guilty on all charges. Not many were hard on you and some even were on your side but don't let it fool you into believing you need to make only slight adjustments. You aren't going to like the changes you have to make but it may pay off if you become a quality woman which in turn attracts a quality man.

[OlgaH]

Where exactly does it lead?!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
or maybe here?
http://terrific-top10.com/2012/04/08/top-10-countries-with-the-highest-suicide-rates/
Divorce rates
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_div_rat-people-divorce-rate

Olga, seriously, what is the political party you work on?

Go figure 

http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demographic/sconcerns/mortality/mort2.htm

Russia is leading in the suicide rate among G8 Countries according to the World Health Organization
http://newsland.com/news/detail/id/501954/

http://www.who.int/en/