Ukrainian middle names?

[Keyser Soze]

Nope.  University wants the foreign student's records to match up with their passport, then employment wants records to match with university records, then SS wants name to match with employment request from University, driver's license must match with SS card, etc.

Maybe in the States, but she showed me her college diploma or whatever it is from the University in Ukraine, but it just had her first and last names on it. They were in the funky letters, but it was just the two names.
Her Father's name is Anatoli. Not quite sure on the spelling, but if it was an issue in Ukraine, one would think that it would at least use an initial between first and last names?

[Muzh]

Nope.  University wants the foreign student's records to match up with their passport, then employment wants records to match with university records, then SS wants name to match with employment request from University, driver's license must match with SS card, etc.

My wife spent a year in a CC taking some refresher courses and then on to Medical School. The CC couldn't care less what her transcript said. The Medical College received the transcripts from the evaluation and accreditation service they instructed us to use.
 
That was it.
 
Regarding SS, all they wanted was her NYS license and green card paperwork. The license does not have the patrymonic name.

[mendeleyev]

Her Father's name is Anatoli. Not quite sure on the spelling, but if it was an issue in Ukraine, one would think that it would at least use an initial between first and last names?

It isn't an issue in Ukraine as from her birth records and moving forward, she was given a patronymic. It has just not been added to more recent records apparently. Initials are not as frequent unless understood, such as A.S. Pushkin, for example.


Keyser, I would encourage you to use the "enter" button to give some space between paragraphs and thereby making these posts more easy to read. Not that I'd need it myself you understand, but some of our more "senior" members like Faux, Kiwi, Muzh, ML, Misha, Belvis and countless untold others need that extra white space to keep long sentences from running around in endless circles inside our their heads. 

[Keyser Soze]

LOL, looking back I can see what you mean.

10-4.

Sometimes I write a response from my phone and funny things happen when I hit the enter button so I usually never do.

I'll also try not to be so wordy in the future.

 

[Anotherkiwi]

...Keyser, I would encourage you to use the "enter" button to give some space between paragraphs and thereby making these posts more easy to read. Not that I'd need it myself you understand, but some of our more "senior" members like Faux, Kiwi, Muzh, ML, Misha, Belvis and countless untold others need that extra white space to keep long sentences from running around in endless circles inside our their heads. 

Mendy, I'm deeply hurt by the baseless insinuation that I'm older than you!    Retract this at once or I'll complain to the moderators! 

[Anotherkiwi]

Well.....I was thinking about earlier this year already, but we more or less decided that we were going to see what happens with the diversity visa first as I may not have to as far as the K1 thing would go if she was selected.
I WANT to go there. There is SO much that I want to see.
Ideally, I wanted her to come here to check it out to see if she would WANT to live here considering how that wasn't her motivation to start out with when we started up. I'm sure we all know a tourist visa is most likely out of the question. She did, however, have a travel agency pretty much offer to sell her one. At least that's how it seemed to me. I told her to forget it. Too dangerous, and expensive to boot.
If(and when) the diversity visa doesn't happen, I'll for sure go there. As of now, there are no definite plans. We are playing it by ear.

I'm sorry, but this doesn't make sense to me.  This woman is apparently the love of your life; you've been talking and Skyping for nearly a year, but you still haven't met?  I won't presume to read the minds of many of our members, although I'm sure that I can make a fairly informed guess.  How can you possibly have "no definite plans?"
 
Every post I've read in the time that I've been a member (relating to first visits) has said the same thing - you have to visit within two to three months of first contact if you want to keep their interest.  You've managed to do that for a lot longer but, seriously, what on earth is holding you back?  I appreciate that you don't have much money, but surely you could take at least one shortish trip (say 7-10 days) to meet her.  If you can't afford even that much then this woman (seriously) isn't for you, no matter what your mutual feelings may be.  Whatever you might spend on a first (and second, and maybe third) trip will pale into insignificance compared with the amount you will have to spend on her relocation and assimilation into your life, especially as she has a child.
 
I wish you the best of luck, whatever happens, but...get off your butt and be "THE MAN."   Otherwise you're just 

[mendeleyev]

Mendy, I'm deeply hurt by the baseless insinuation that I'm older than you!    Retract this at once or I'll complain to the moderators!

Gosh darnit, Kiwi. Look at what my spell checker went and did!

Sorry, I wasn't referring to you at all. No way, my comment was about Another Kiwi. 

[Keyser Soze]

.....and I just remembered why I left in the first place.

If you must know, the original plan was to have her come here first to check out America and see if it was somewhere that she would consider leaving her whole life behind for. Remember, she's not an agency girl looking for a ticket out. She wasn't looking for a WM. It just so happened to end up that way.
She got her passport, and we began looking into what it would take to get her here. The agreement was one of us would pay for one way, the other would pay the other.

Well you can figure out what happened. We found out that it was virtually impossible to get a tourist visa. We weren't denied, because we never tried, but everything most definitely pointed to a big negative no matter what. We could have greased a travel agency, for what good that would have done. Moreover, it would most likely hurt our chances in the long run to even try. Then we started looking into a business visa, because she has a sympathetic employer and she's listed as a part owner of the business for some sort of tax scheme or something. That wouldn't have been believable, and looked like a bust as well.

Then we came across the diversity visa thing. She jumped through the hoops in order to make that happen. We had discussed a trip in the meantime, but we both decided to wait until there is some sort of the word on the diversity visa until we make further plans. If it doesn't work out with the visa, I go there. That's the plan. It's more expense, and dicking around, but that's the plan.

The diversity visa is the best scenario. I've been married before. To the true spawn of Satan. If I get married, and my wife works, you can bet your sweet ass that my ex will come after us for everything she can get. In my country, and in my state in particular, the ex is entitled to money just because of her plumbing.
She doesn't work, they would do an "income equalization" at her request to make sure she gets her fair share of our money. She doesn't work, AND she lives with a man who pays for EVERYTHING. ALL of her expenses. It doesn't matter. She lives there for nothing. They are not married. It doesn't matter. If I am, and we both work, she gets half of our shit. All she has to do is ask for it and she'll get it.

Also.....If she comes here on a diversity visa, we don't HAVE to get married within 90 days. We can still live together without the financial penalty.....until the kids turn 18 then we can get married all we want.
If the diversity doesn't come through, like I said, we go to plan B. Then there's also the question of what to do with the kids if and when I go there on plan B, and we'll figure it out.

You're right, I don't have a lot of money, but I didn't go through an agency either. I didn't have to. I don't know how things are in Australia, or New Zealand, or wherever the hell you are from, but the economy here in the States is in the toilet. One is best served to not spend recklessly. I work hard for what I have, and I'm not going to just blow what I have on a hope and a prayer. Much less on a whim.
My guess is it's also a pile cheaper, quicker, and easier to get to the FSU in any way shape or form, from where you are than where I am. Quickest flight for me is 16 hours, by plane. Then 5 hours by train, or 8 hours by bus or car to where she is. Not to mention the 4 hours it takes to drive to an international airport before I even hop a plane. That's at least an entire day and then some lost both days in travel alone. A 7 day trip just turned to a 4-5 or less. I can't just drop everything and take off whenever I feel like it either. I don't have that luxury, and I'm a little too responsible for that to begin with.

I wish I was made of money like some of you jokers, but unfortunately I'm not. I'd love to take half a dozen trips just for the sake of doing it. Maybe go on a hairpie holiday a couple of times a year just because I can, but I don't need to. That's not me anyway. I don't NEED to go trolling or skirt chasing. I've already found what I'm searching for. I didn't go through a catalog. I'm not desperate and I'm a pretty patient individual. There is no huge rush to go off half cocked and get married to the first pretty girl that pays attention to me because I'm afraid if I don't she'll run off with someone else better, because it's not going to happen.
She's awesome, and I'd probably marry her in a heartbeat, but I'm not going to rush into anything either.

I swear, some of you clowns look at this whole deal like buying a car. Uh oh.....better hurry up and go take a test drive on the latest model and put my money down before someone else snaps it up. It's shameful.....and it's EXACTLY why WM get a bad rap with the locals, and people still think that we buy these women.

If I had the same way of thinking, I wouldn't even screw around with going to the FSU. I'd just go straight to Turkey and pick one as they get off the boat from Odessa.....SMH.

[mendeleyev]

In my country, and in my state in particular, the ex is entitled to money just because of her plumbing.

Ah, California, I presume?

I am not convinced that she could travel to the USA permanently on a diversity visa. Are you certain she could just land and settle in?

[lonedrake]

Ah, California, I presume?

 I believe he said he was from Wisconsin.

[mies]

Also, now on recently issued Ukrainian passports, the authorities have stopped putting this variation  of father's name on  the passport.

I am not so sure about that. Father's name (patronymic) is included in the national passport of Ukrainian citizens, but isn't included in the foreign passport. 

As you can see on this image, third line from the top on the rightmost page is "patronymic". This is a Ukrainian (internal) passport.


By contrast, here is the Ukrainian foreign/international passport, there is no patronymic here:



A curious fact I have recently discovered: Ukrainian international passport isn't accepted in banks as proof of identity on the territory of Ukraine. They require internal passport. Without internal passport Ukrainian citizen cannot exchange currency. 

[mies]

The diversity visa is the best scenario.

Also.....If {and when} she comes here on a diversity visa, we don't HAVE to get married within 90 days. We can still live together without the financial penalty.....until the kids turn 18 then we can get married all we want.

You may not fully understand the concept of diversity visa program (not that I understand it too well). The chance of getting this "visa" is similar to the chance of winning big in the casino slot machine - not a high chance. I know people who have been methodically applying for diversity visa program every year for 5+ years without any luck so far. One of my friends finally "won" his green card lottery on the 7th or 8th year of consequent applications.
Then, (and I may be wrong here), there is one more additional caveat: the person who "won the green card lottery" has a period of one year to come to the US consulate to get the final decision/permit for entry to USA, but they need to prove that they will be able to provide for themselves in the USA: that they will be able to rent or buy a place to live, and will have some disposable income in the USA. So basically, receiving the package in the mail saying that they have been selected for the diversity visa program and can submit their documents to local consulate until August of the next year does not guarantee that this individual won't be denied entrance to USA if they can't show proof of substantial means. To be honest, I do not know all the details, but I have read this information in various sources and heard it from many people. Even if the individual does get the "diversity visa" he or she may still not be allowed to come to USA if they don't have the basic means to live in the USA: either savings or an employment contract.

So even if your female friend does win the diversity visa, the lack of funds may still become a problem for her and prevent her from coming to USA.

Imagine the following scenario: your gal have heard about Physics department in Harvard, that they offer financial support (stipends, fellowships, etc) to the Doctoral and PostDoc students and arrange visas. And now you two are really enthusiastic and optimistic about this plan: she applies for post-doc in Physics in Harvard, and then she doesn't have to marry you within 90 days from arrival and also she will have some income of her own. So you are waiting for the news from the Harvard Physics Department admission committee, and until then do not take any further steps. If she won't get admitted, then you will go and visit her in Ukraine.
IMHO, chances of getting into Physics program in Harvard (for a randomly selected middle-age person from Ukraine) and chances of winning a diversity visa on first try are quite similar.   

[Faux Pas]

Wow

The pink elephant in the corner of this room just got about 10 times bigger.   

[ML]

Quote from: ML on April 02, 2013, 11:41:50 PM<blockquote>Also, now on recently issued Ukrainian passports, the authorities have stopped putting this variation  of father's name on  the passport.
</blockquote>

I am not so sure about that. Father's name (patronymic) is included in the national passport of Ukrainian citizens, but isn't included in the foreign passport. 

Although I didn't explicitly say, I was referring to the international passport.  And my story was about my Gal's situation concerning name on USA university documents, SS card, DL, etc., so it would of course be with respect to her international passport.

[ML]

Quote from: ML on Yesterday at 01:10:58 PM<blockquote>Nope.  University wants the foreign student's records to match up with their passport, then employment wants records to match with university records, then SS wants name to match with employment request from University, driver's license must match with SS card, etc.
</blockquote>

Maybe in the States, but she showed me her college diploma or whatever it is from the University in Ukraine, but it just had her first and last names on it. They were in the funky letters, but it was just the two names.
Her Father's name is Anatoli. Not quite sure on the spelling, but if it was an issue in Ukraine, one would think that it would at least use an initial between first and last names?

Again, when I say " University wants the foreign student's records" it should be obvious I am talking about the USA university.  If I were talking about the University in Ukraine, then she wouldn't be a 'foreign student.'

[ML]

Then we came across the diversity visa thing. She jumped through the hoops in order to make that happen. We had discussed a trip in the meantime, but we both decided to wait until there is some sort of the word on the diversity visa until we make further plans.

I surprised no one commented on this before Mies did.

As she pointed out, getting a diversity visa has the same chances as winning the biggest lottery.  So there is no need to even make contingency plans for it, or wait to make other plans until after you hear from it.

With the diversity visa program, you just submit your application . . . and then completely forget about it, until you are contacted . . . which is virtually never going to happen.

And, I didn't understand your 'jumped through the hoops' comment.

The application is about the simplest possible:

1. Name  a. Last Name      b. First Name      c. Middle Name
2. Birth Date 
3. Gender  Female
4. City Where You Were Born
5. Country Where You Were Born  Ukraine
6. Country of Eligibility for the DV Program  Ukraine
7. Entrant Photograph  (Photograph received)
8. Mailing Address  8b. Address Line 1 
8c. Address Line 2   8d. City/Town
8e. District/County/Province/State
8f. Postal Code/Zip Code
8g. Country     United States  (NOTE: This is the address that will be used to notify you if you are selected.)
9. Country Where You Live Today  United States
10. Phone Number
11. E-mail Address
12. What is the highest level of education you have achieved, as of today?
13. What is your current marital status?
14. Number of Children


The only real 'hoop' would be the picture.  But those who have recently gotten a new passport should have a copy of the photo, and most shops even give you the photo on a CD also for electronic use.

- - - - -

To Keyser:  I and 'most' others here are not just trying to give you a hard time.  Some are giving you useful advice, and I am just trying to clarify something for you.

The advice about going to see her ASAP is given to all 'newbies' who come here.  The 'advisors' have no way of knowing that this may not be possible for some men.

But then, when they find it is not possible (based on further info from the newbie), they most likely tell the men to just forget the venture.  It is pretty sound advice.  Although it may sound cold to the recipient, there is much love involved and 'most' are just trying to help you avoid anguish and future heartbreak.

Best to you.

[ML]

I am not convinced that she could travel to the USA permanently on a diversity visa. Are you certain she could just land and settle in?

Mindy, that is the point of the diversity visa program.  It is for permanent living in USA.

In essence, it is just moves you to the front of the line and you are given an immigrant visa.

Provided you can meet the support requirements that Mies noted.

[ML]

Regarding the diversity visa; I should also point out for the million (or so) to one chance, it is a 2 year or more process from application submission to ever setting foot in USA.

e.g.  The last submission deadline was 3 November 2012.

Winners will  be drawn 1 May 2013.

Then in September 2013, processing can begin.

Final approvals will be sometime in 2014 and arrival in USA could probably be expected in late 2014.

And, in fact, the application process that ended 3 November 2012 is officially called the "DV 2014 Program."

Just found some statistics, for 2012 Program (applications would have been in 2010)

Submitted from Ukrainian citizens:761,653

Selected: 1,439.  Success rate about .002 or 0.2 percent. 

[Faux Pas]

To Keyser:  I and 'most' others here are not just trying to give you a hard time.  Some are giving you useful advice, and I am just trying to clarify something for you.

The advice about going to see her ASAP is given to all 'newbies' who come here.  The 'advisors' have no way of knowing that this may not be possible for some men.

But then, when they find it is not possible (based on further info from the newbie), they most likely tell the men to just forget the venture.  It is pretty sound advice.  Although it may sound cold to the recipient, there is much love involved and 'most' are just trying to help you avoid anguish and future heartbreak.

Best to you.

Careful, you are going to disrupt the fantasy

[Keyser Soze]

Mies-

I fully understand everything regarding the DV, and am not holding my breath for her to either be selected, or, if she is, to be allowed to come. The financial aspect of it is somewhat mitigated because she has somewhere to go when she gets here. As far as how she looks on paper financially, that's the easy part.
I'm cautiously optimistic, but like I said, I'm not holding my breath. Actually, she's more jacked up over it than I am. I expect her to be denied. That's why there is a plan B.

ML-
Jumping through the hoops was more of an expression than anything. Although there was an initial problem with her passport photo size or something and she had to go get another one taken. I forget exactly what it was, it was something like that, but she got it handled.

I appreciate yours, and everyone's advice, and I'm not calling you out in particular, but many come off as know it all, elitist, internet warrior pricks, with too much money, and time. Much of what I've read on this board would lead me to believe that if I don't make 200K/year, and either don't work, or only do it for about 6 weeks a year, I have no hope, or no chance at finding a woman from another country. If I do have all this money and time on my hands, if I don't go and get her within a couple months, I'm gonna miss out.
There are rarely any encouraging words for anyone even considering a foreign bride. Almost as if people are worried that if someone finds one, that's one less for everyone else. The sense of urgency for everyone has always disturbed me too. She's not a new puppy.
I realize that I probably could have, or should already went there by everyone's standards, but honestly, I wasn't ready by the time this DV talk started. I take this VERY seriously, and I am about the biggest conservative you'll ever meet. I understand everything takes time, and I'm fine with that.

Her and I are both pretty determined to make this happen, and trust me, she's probably more than I am. I have no doubt that if I were to kick her to the curb today, one day I would answer the door and she would be standing there.

Ukrainian women are like Badgers.....

[GQBlues]

.....and I just remembered why I left in the first place.

Welcome back. The more things change, the more they remain the same actually...

...The diversity visa is the best scenario.

Sure. Winning the Powerball lotto is also the best way to get rich. Chances are even when she gets drawn (her kid, too?) but she doesn't have the required resource to meet INS's baseline, she gets tossed over.
 

...You're right, I don't have a lot of money, but I didn't go through an agency either. I didn't have to. I don't know how things are in Australia, or New Zealand, or wherever the hell you are from, but the economy here in the States is in the toilet. One is best served to not spend recklessly. I work hard for what I have, and I'm not going to just blow what I have on a hope and a prayer. Much less on a whim....

Give AK a break, He's still logging those 5 pound mobile phone  and are still messing with VHS tape players, you know.

...Quickest flight for me is 16 hours, by plane. Then 5 hours by train, or 8 hours by bus or car to where she is. Not to mention the 4 hours it takes to drive to an international airport before I even hop a plane. That's at least an entire day and then some lost both days in travel alone. A 7 day trip just turned to a 4-5 or less. I can't just drop everything and take off whenever I feel like it either. I don't have that luxury, and I'm a little too responsible for that to begin with....

More or less the same PITA everyone had to go through involved in this - and multiple times. Not crunching your bawls here but wouldn't that be the exact same route you're expecting your gal to make IF she wins the visa lottery? And if she doesn't win the lottery, what then?
 
Anyway, I wish you luck.

[Faux Pas]

Give AK a break, He's still logging those 5 pound mobile phone  and are still messing with VHS take players, you know.

I think it's that "beeper" technology he just can't turn loose of 

[Keyser Soze]

Look, I don't want to get into a pissing match with anyone, and I appreciate all the positive encouragement that I've received so far, but is what Faux just said really necessary?

[Faux Pas]

Look, I don't want to get into a pissing match with anyone, and I appreciate all the positive encouragement that I've received so far, but is what Faux just said really necessary?

It would certainly look like you do. You've posted about the wonderful woman, your great relationship, yadda, yadda, yadda. The pink elephant is, you haven't met this woman. She may or may not be the woman you think she is. The fact is, you don't know. You have relationship with her parents and brother, all through Skype? Really. You are a special one.

You are a fantasy man Keyser. You've carried on for a year and you are in love with an image that you've formulated in your mind. Nobody said you need to be rich anywhere that I have ever saw. The one thing you do need to be, you don't seem to have and that is, you need to be willing. You are not.

Seriously, if you can't afford a trip to meet the woman or take the time to travel and meet the woman, quite simply, you can't afford the woman

[mendeleyev]

Mindy, that is the point of the diversity visa program.  It is for permanent living in USA.

Thanks, ML. I was not aware of that.