Off Topic Split: Child Abuse

[BillyB]

Aloe, blame only yourself.  While you took a break from studying, there are many young people who did not.

My wife told me when she said something disrespectful to her mom, her mom gave her a quick no nonsense slap to the face for an attitude adjustment. My wife credits her mom for the good manners she possesses.


If a parent can receive credit, they can also get the blame if they fail to give a reasonable effort in keeping their kids on a straight path. Aloe said she was slipping since age 14 so she can blame her parents for not adjusting her attitude


Aloe is an adult now. She understands a wrong has been done and what must be done to right the wrong. If Aloe fails to take her studying seriously, she will own 100% of the fault. She has some catch up to do. Some college students only need to study. Aloe will need to study while adjusting her motivation and commitment towards her education.

[GQBlues]

My wife told me when she said something disrespectful to her mom, her mom gave her a quick no nonsense slap to the face for an attitude adjustment. My wife credits her mom for the good manners she possesses...

So positive things do happen to child abuse then, eh?

...If a parent can receive credit, they can also get the blame if they fail to give a reasonable effort in keeping their kids on a straight path. Aloe said she was slipping since age 14 so she can blame her parents for not adjusting her attitude...

But did you not credit her Mom on another thread for knowing Aloe better than anyone else? Also, not sure how your wife's mother slapping your wife to set her straight in life be anything less for Aloe's hubby doing the same thing with Aloe (physical abuse)?

[calmissile]

 Also, not sure how your wife's mother slapping your wife to set her straight in life be anything less for Aloe's hubby doing the same thing with Aloe (physical abuse)?

Big difference!  It is the parents responsibility to discipline their children and mold them into becoming decent and respectful to others.  By the time they become adults, they are already supposed to be grown up.  Slapping an adult grown up does nothing but fan the flames.

[GQBlues]

Big difference!  It is the parents responsibility to discipline their children and mold them into becoming decent and respectful to others.  By the time they become adults, they are already supposed to be grown up.  Slapping an adult grown up does nothing but fan the flames.

So child abuse is okay if you believe it's done under the notion of molding your kids to become 'decent and respectful' individuals..is this what you're saying?
 
Studies have been done where an abused child only repeat that process with their own kids...is this not so?

[BillyB]

But did you not credit her Mom on another thread for knowing Aloe better than anyone else?

 I clearly stated I put more faith in Aloe's mom's words about her husband than a bunch of people on the internet. I also said I don't believe anyone. Anyone includes Aloe's mom. Of course she's not perfect and not perfect in her assessment of Aloe's husband but she should know Aloe and her husband better than anonymous people on the internet.

Studies have been done where an abused child only repeat that process with their own kids...is this not so?

 What is child abuse? Your definition would be different than my wife's. A slap on the face is not child abuse, it is a wake up call. With the exception of long term damaging affects from physical violence, she thinks government should stay out of people's way when disciplining their children. So do I.


I had a Mexican employee who went to court for spanking his daughter. I guess her school educated her on what a parent can't do to her and she called 911. He went to court and asked the judge if the government will assume responsibility and pay for all the wrong his kids do if he's not allowed to discipline them. The judge dropped the case.

[calmissile]

So child abuse is okay if you believe it's done under the notion of molding your kids to become 'decent and respectful' individuals..is this what you're saying?
 
Studies have been done where an abused child only repeat that process with their own kids...is this not so?

If you believe that any child that has every been spanked is an abused child, we are not even on the same page.

The studies you quote are generally references to children that are routinely beaten, not spanked once in a while when deserved to change their behavior.

I am old enough to have seen much of both kinds of parental behavior.  I do not like spankings, yet have seen children that refused to respond to the nice, touchy, feely, verbal solution.  A lot depends on the personality of the child and not necessarily the influence of the parents.

In our school systems in Oregon and Washington in earlier days, kids that were out of line went to the principals office and got a few whacks with a paddle.  A  old bitty teacher in the 3rd grade would occasionally break a yardstick over boys that were disrespectful and unruly.  Watching these kids that were punished through the rest of their schooling, not a single one I remember exhibiting aggressive or fighting behavior.  For the most part, they learned their lesson at school which probably should have been done at home.

By the same token, kids that respond to verbal discussion and change their behavior as a result of it should not be physically punished.   The problem with the arguments of today about discipline is that there is no middle ground.   A swat on the butt is considered child abuse by some.  It makes me wonder how those parents would feel when a child that runs into the street and only got verbal warning rather than a swat on the butt would feel when the next time the child gets hit by a car!

The pendalum has swung so far to the other side, we are now raising a generation of sissies!  I hope they are never needed to defend their country.

[GQBlues]

 I clearly stated I put more faith in Aloe's mom's words about her husband than a bunch of people on the internet. I also said I don't believe anyone. Anyone includes Aloe's mom. Of course she's not perfect and not perfect in her assessment of Aloe's husband but she should know Aloe and her husband better than anonymous people on the internet.

LOL. You have faith on someone's word you do not believe. Okay BillyB! That makes sense to you I suppose.

You write these silly exhaustively long posts that at best doesn't really say anything and at worst, contradicts itself. Anyone who can filter the noise through your posts can plainly see that.

You do not know Aloe, much less her mother, to have a better understanding of their situation than anyone else in the world wide web that read her posts - period.

...What is child abuse?...

A face slap is a good example, IMO. Is a pushback on the shoulders against the wall and a choke hold abuse to you?

As for the Mexican, that is as irrelevant to me as the person walking down the street with a wild limp 3 miles away. So you're 'supporting' case is irrelevant to the specifics were discussing.

Again, noise...filter.

If you believe that any child that has every been spanked is an abused child, we are not even on the same page.

The studies you quote are generally references to children that are routinely beaten, not spanked once in a while when deserved to change their behavior...

If you knew your conviction can stand on its own merit, you should not have to change any of the words being used to serve your cause during a debate.

A slap on the face is hardly classified a 'spanking' in my book. So yes, I would agree with you that thankfully we are not on the same page.

[Ade]

My wife told me when she said something disrespectful to her mom, her mom gave her a quick no nonsense slap to the face for an attitude adjustment. My wife credits her mom for the good manners she possesses.

And many wives will claim they love their abusive husbands too.


The more I hear of your MiL, the more I understand your marriage¹.




^{1. This is not admitting in any way that there still isn't debate as to whether your marriage is just a figment of your imagination. My personal opinion is that you're not that imaginative.}

[BillyB]

The pendalum has swung so far to the other side, we are now raising a generation of sissies!  I hope they are never needed to defend their country.

Your comment makes me think of the phase "Spare the rods, spoil the nation". Many of us heard from old timers "Spare the rod, spoil the child". Those same old timers built a great nation and won their generations wars and I'm happy with the overall results.
 
I remember seeing a woman and her young son in a store. The boy was knocking stuff off the shelves non stop. The mother must of said "Johnny, stop it." 50 times. Sometimes she used the word "please". The boy was undisiplined and disrespectful. If verbal requests works with a child, then great. If not, then I'm okay with a parent using physical means to change their child's attitude. If parents don't help their kids grow right, society will deal with them later through incarceration.
 
There were threads devoted to this issue. Hot topic that breeds anger and hate and divides many here. It's defintely a topic men and women need to discuss before marriage if kids are in the plans.

[Muzh]

Your comment makes me think of the phase "Spare the rods, spoil the nation". Many of us heard from old timers "Spare the rod, spoil the child". Those same old timers built a great nation and won their generations wars and I'm happy with the overall results.
 

Those are the same crusty crabs who refuse to evolve and accept that they DID abuse their children.

The great thing about being a sentient being is the ability to think. And when you think, you evolve. And when you evolve, you grow. It is like a domino effect. But then there is a domino placed the wrong way that will disturb that effect. I think you are one of those.

[BillyB]

Those are the same crusty crabs who refuse to evolve and accept that they DID abuse their children.

The great thing about being a sentient being is the ability to think. And when you think, you evolve. And when you evolve, you grow. It is like a domino effect. But then there is a domino placed the wrong way that will disturb that effect. I think you are one of those.

Recently you talked about a personal issue where your dad got the crap kicked out of him. You approved of that beating. Nobody here is advocating that kind of beating on kids but it's clear you do approve of physical means to curb bad behavior. Don't try to portray you're more civilized and evolved into something better than the rest of us.

[Muzh]

Recently you talked about a personal issue where your dad got the crap kicked out of him. You approved of that beating. Nobody here is advocating that kind of beating on kids but it's clear you do approve of physical means to curb bad behavior. Don't try to portray you're more civilized and evolved into something better than the rest of us.

You seem to have problems comprehending written material.

Read it again.

Still, that does not absolve you from thinking like an abuser.

Why is it that abusers think they are macho? They are just a bunch of cowards.

[Shadow]

Children are different in their character. Where our yougest has the tendency to follow verbal warnings, the oldest will not stop his behaviour until you physically stop him. That does not mean slapping or beating, but just taking him away or holding his hand (while trying to play in order to get his mind of it).
With the increasing ability to express them selves the need to use physical signals disappears.

[BillyB]

You seem to have problems comprehending written material.

Read it again.

I did read it again and my reading comprehension is fine. You not only approved of your father getting beaten, you wished he died. It's your personal story to tell so I'm not going to cut and paste it here or provide a link.