Not Russian Custom

[rose]

Rose with all due respect in regards to Maxx your talking out of your A$$. 

DaKnack, at least my A$$ is not as durty as your mouth.

[KenC]

Daknack,

You are waaay out of line to use such a tone with Rose!  She brings up a very valid point IMO.  Even if Maxx was "framed" on his DV charge doesn't mean that every guy that he helps is innocent.  How can he be sure?  The answer is that he can't be sure the guys he is helping are all innocent.

We all know that a DV charge is a likely tactic for GC whores and scammers, but to be honest, I have met many more weirdo AM married to RW than I have GC whores.  Like the rich dork here in San Diego that liked to slap his RW around and gave her crabs!  I did also meet a Ukrainian girl that played a poor naive guy from NB into bringing her over.  Sure she left him high and dry, but didn't fake a DV charge or work him over financially.  In that case it was still the guys fault as I see it because he portrayed himself as something he wasn't.

The bottom line here is that there are men out there that abuse woman and they need to be punished and the women need to be preotected.  The law is slanted in favor of protecting women as it should be.

KenC

[rose]

For those, who cannot read carefully and faulsely assume that I accuse Maxx:

I respect Maxx for what he is doing, and yes, maybe I didn't put it straignt into words, but I know that he is a good person.

Maxx was not a point of the post: the point of the post was that very often we see (or choose to see) only one side of the coin, when there are always two sides.

[Turboguy]

Rose, I agree with you.  It is not that all cases are evil scaming Russian gals who work the system to get a green card rather than spend time with her American husband who is a wonderful guy and is bending over backwards to treat her like a princess. 

There are good and bad people on both sides of the equation.  I think there are a lot of bad things that happen in the AM-FSU women cases that go bad.  I think it is terrible of a woman who invents domestic abuse charges to try and get her green card with no thought of what happens to him.  I also think it is terrible of a husband to not treat his wife well after she gave up her life and friends to come to be with him.  I have no doubts there are cases where he tries to treat her so bad that she will just get out of his life at any cost and cases where there is real domestic abuse, mental abuse and failure to provide the basic necessities of life.

I think there are a lot of times when the man thinks the woman is evil and the woman thinks the man is evil and probably both are to blame.  I mentioned the one gal I had a friendship with.  Either of them could tell you a horror story.  It started with her crying on my shoulder but the more I listened and the more I observed, I really think she was the worst of the two and it was just another case of two strangers getting married who had little in common.

 

[catzenmouse]

I think it's too easy for guys to jump on the "Women are Bad" bandwagon when there is a problem with a relationship. Whether it is just a bad mix as a couple, a manipulative person, or a real abusive situation. I know of a couple of situations where the man was the nasty and one that was pushing the boundries of torture on the woman.

There is almost no situation here on this board where we can/do/or will know all the facts. There are good and bad people of both genders and Rose's post showed that what we hear from a mainly male perspective can be as far from the truth as it could possibly be. It was a very good post and was well said as are most of Rose's posts.

Ken

 

[BillyB]

DaKnack, at least my A$$ is not as durty as your mouth.

Congratulations on your memorable, milestone 100th post Rose but you spelled "dirty" wrong!

Most men here know about the many abusive men out there. It happens but since this is a male dominant forum, you will hear about men needing help and the same help over and over and over. Maxx has been through it all and many men haved asked for his advice and assistance. Be thankful that he helps people as much as he does with his time and effort. Also most men at this forum aren't the type to beat and abuse women. Most men here are trying to get educated so they may have a successful relationship with a RW and learn how to avoid the insincere RW. Alcoholics, drug users, wife beaters and perverts don't usually spend their time at a place for self improvement. So it's safe to say many of the men Maxx is helping is potentially a guy that actually needs help. If any man did abuse their RW and there is physical evidence, there is nothing Maxx can do to help the man erase the evidence.

[Maxx]

No problem Rose. Even if you did get nasty with me and you didn't, I would not get upset. It is easy to be misunderstood in these situations.

OK I posted all of this in the GCG thread in the scam section. It covers my stand on the issue what is a good RW and what is a bad RW. I'll address your other observations about me in another post.  

[/url]h[url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html]ttp://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html[/url][url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html] 

YES [/url]GCGs[url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html] exist. How common is anyone's guess. BTW I would not classify a [/url]GCG[url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html] [/color]as a woman who hopes to love her husband someday, immigrants because she wants a better life for herself and her children. Then it just doesn't work out and they divorce.[/b] I would call a woman a [/url]GCG[url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html] if she has no intention of making a marriage work and makes no effort to make it work.

[/url]Maxx[url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html][/font]
 
[/url][url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-3.html][url]http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-3.html[/url][/url][url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html][/size][/color][/font]
 
It is not about their primary motivation for coming to the West. Even if for some women that economics is their primary motivation for [/url]emmigration[url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html] it is about their intent towards their marriages. If they come with no intention of making their marriages work, it is fraud and they are [/url]GCGs[url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html]. It's that simple. But if in anyway they come whether it is primary or secondary, for love, family and marriage with their fiance's they are not [/url]GCGs[url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html].  
 
[/url][url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-4.html][url]http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-4.html[/url][/url][url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html][/color][/font]
 
I have had 2 1/2 years to think about the subject of "what is a [/url]GCG[url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html]?". To me it is not about their primary motivation to [/url]emmigrate[url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html] but about their intention of making the marriage work that defines whether or not a woman is a [/url]GCG[url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html].

My ex never gave our marriage a chance. In fact she tried to undermine it secretly and overtly from the beginning as she was getting her documentation and money into her corner. I watched this woman for 4 months (3.75 months too long) build her "landing field" with her contacts and behind my back false allegations. She gathered her allies for what she knew was going to come. No wonder I was a nervous wreck when that day finally came. [/url]GCG[url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html]'s set you up from the beginning and they never give you a chance. Believe me guys I know.

[/url]Maxx[url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html][/font]
 
[/url][url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-5.html][url]http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-5.html[/url][/url][url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html][/size][/color][/font]
 
Yes this is about money. But a woman wanting a man to provide for her family is not a dishonorable woman. A woman using a guy to get into a Western country with no intention of making the marriage work, scamming him with lies to get his money and then running off with a younger or more well off man is dishonorable. It's the second woman who is a [/url]GCG[url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html] not the woman who wants her daughter to have a good education and puts real effort into making her marriage work. I see these women as well intentioned and honorable.
 
I posted this on August 15th 2004. [/url]

[url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html] 
[/url][url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-6.html][url]http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-6.html[/url][/url][url=http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/845-1.html][/size][/color][/font]


[/font]

August 15th 2004
 
Very good question Doll, "what counts?". In other words define when a marriage scam takes place, right?

To me a marriage scam is when a woman comes into a marriage not with the intent of making it work but for immigration benefits only. [/size][/font]     

[/u][/url][/size][/color][/font]

[Daknack]

Daknack,

You are waaay out of line to use such a tone with Rose!  She brings up a very valid point IMO.  Even if Maxx was "framed" on his DV charge doesn't mean that every guy that he helps is innocent.  How can he be sure?  The answer is that he can't be sure the guys he is helping are all innocent.

We all know that a DV charge is a likely tactic for GC whores and scammers, but to be honest, I have met many more weirdo AM married to RW than I have GC whores.  Like the rich dork here in San Diego that liked to slap his RW around and gave her crabs!  I did also meet a Ukrainian girl that played a poor naive guy from NB into bringing her over.  Sure she left him high and dry, but didn't fake a DV charge or work him over financially.  In that case it was still the guys fault as I see it because he portrayed himself as something he wasn't.

The bottom line here is that there are men out there that abuse woman and they need to be punished and the women need to be preotected.  The law is slanted in favor of protecting women as it should be.

KenC

 

You and I have a fundemental difference KenC  I believe in the precepts of this nations founding on the concept that a man is innocent until he is proven guilty and in reality THAT is how it should be.  In terms of speaking, I will speak to whomever I choose in essentially whatever manner I choose.  What I said was neither out of line nor was it profane.  99% of the american population uses the word a$$ on a daily basis, and it is a common expression to say someone is talking out of thier A$$ then they dont really know what they are talking about.  If I had wanted to be either profane, or especially insulting I easily could have.  I take exception to this false charactorization.

To Rose:  Perhaps you have never heard said expression.  That is unfortunate.  However, I make no appology for my statement as I wrote exactly what I ment to say.  I am however sorry if you misunderstood it as intentionally nasty or profane as it was not the intent.  Personally I like you and I think you have a bit of card blanche (being a RW and all) to be a bit harsh with your words, but I hope you are indeed as capable at accepting such words as you are at delivering them.

For the record I dont think ANYONE thinks it is solely evil scamming GCG's involved in this, but many inept and clueless men that have no nutsack to go up to a woman and ask for her phone #.  I think there are posters here that are like that.  As for abuse Of course it exists.  Ive seen it first hand.  I was talking to Son of Clyde the other week and at the University I had to pull a man off a woman. Mind you, Im a big white guy with a shaven head on an all black campus.  To alot of people it looked like the white guy was fighting the black guy.  Get out your calculaters and do the math on that one.  I might add I almost Years ago my little sister had he face smashed up by her then fiance'.  I know its there and I agree punish the people that do it.  However every man is innocent until proven guilty (at least in theory) and I will be damned to compromise my prinicple on what is right for what is easy. 

To suggest that someone that disagrees with you is giving comfort to abusers is to use what may become my new catchphrase: Talking out of your a$$

[KenC]

Danack,

Of course you have every right in the world to act like a jerk.  That attitude will take you far in the fsu (if you ever get there)

KenC

[Bruno]

For those, who cannot read carefully and faulsely assume that I accuse Maxx:

I respect Maxx for what he is doing, and yes, maybe I didn't put it straignt into words, but I know that he is a good person.

Maxx was not a point of the post: the point of the post was that very often we see (or choose to see) only one side of the coin, when there are always two sides.

I agree with Rose, coin have both side...

Myself, i have loose 5 year of my life with a GCG... but at the opposite of Maxx, i don't make a obsession of this... i have my share of mistake too... yes, nobody is perfect...

I have never think that all RW can be GCG... i have go on on my own life... In the case of Maxx, i feel sometime pity for him... He give me the impression that his life is stopped, that the GCG thing become like a obsession... the only thing i hope read here from Maxx is :"I have find a wonderfull girl and i start a new life "... but all i see is :"i have find a other man who have suffert like me"...

Maxx, helping other is good but thing about you first... at each birthday, you become one year older... close the old book and start a new one... somewhere in these world, the right lady is waiting you.. don't waste your time !!!

[Wild Orchid*]

Where you can really see the "other" side of AM/FSU women realtionships is on the "Our Forum" Russian Woman Abroad site.  I used the Alta Visa web page translation to look at this page and have had my wife tell me about some of the stories there.  Although you lose something in the Russian-English translation program, you can still understand what is going on there. It really opens your eyes, all the talk about Domestic Violence charges and all the handy divorce tips.   It makes you sort of  ill to read about it.  My wife tells me that there are  women there who give "sage" advice about preparing for divorce or DV or looking for a way out of a marriage. 

And you can understand after a few minutes of reading this site that everything that a woman wants to know about filing false DV claims or anything pertaining to divorce deals is information that is easily available. :huh:

Maybe a RW whom reads this forum will give us her impressions about this site. (Although I am aware that I have veered off-topic and I hope SoC will forgive me for this )

I was reading RWA for a while, and I don't agree with your opinion on it. Women on that forum are quite fare and they won't support obvious wrong-doings. There were a few threads when woman would come for the support but after telling her story she'd get the opposite, women were telling her that she was wrong and mistreating her husband. At the same time there were woman who genuinely abused by their American husbands.

[Turboguy]

When I was exploring around the RWA site earlier today using my yahoo toolbar I saw exactly what you said WildOrchid.  I saw a couple of post where the gal was off in left field and not wanting to do things right and she got criticized for it.   I am sure there are some bad people there just as you will find anywhere but it seemed to me in the few minutes I lurked there that it was mostly just helpful people trying to do some good.

[Daknack]

Danack,

Of course you have every right in the world to act like a jerk.  That attitude will take you far in the fsu (if you ever get there)

KenC

Ahem... Mr Pot (KenC) allow me to introduce myself... Mr. Kettle (DaKnack).  Pleased to meet you my good Sir.

[KenC]

Daknack,

Yeah we're twin brothers.  (Just like Arnold and Danny Devito!)  Ever gonna grow a set and actually go to the fsu, or are you just happy to be the resident expert on all things Russian (without ever being there)?  Actions talk and bullsh!t walks as they say.  You're all mouth and no substance.  At least your buddy Clyde allows you to visit his real Russian woman so you can still dream.

KenC

(Go ahead and show us how manly you are when you pick on girls)

[Daknack]

Your certainly allowed your opinion my good Sir.  Perhaps it is rather your tone that is ment in an unpleasant manner.  I find it especially amusing that you think me a rude jerk and such and when I compare my words with yours you get your little panties in a bunch.  Sometimes the mirror can be rather unpleasant, and with your level of discourse, you should recognize in many way we are indeed alike.  However I would put forth the proposition that you are more intentially rude than me.  I can live with who and what I am, and any labels which are true being attributed to me.  This is why I do not get upset when people think me rude.  I simply am blunt.  Much like yourself.  Perhaps your dislike of my behavior is a reflection of some aspect of self hate for your own actions as such.  Personally I dont care.  I just think it is amusing you dont see yourself as the other side of my coin.

The realm of this board is one of words and of the mind.  Sex here is of no importance.  Hiding behind some non-sense as me picking on women is silly.  I stated my mind.  Its different from yours.  Thats pretty clear.  Maybe if you want to pick a fight with me over issues you should just do it rather then hide behind some notion of being a white knight to my black knight to Roses damsel in distress on a silly message board.  Based on roses posts shes more then capable of handling herself.

[Maxx]

[user=687]Daknack[/user] wrote:

 allow me to introduce myself...

No, allow me.....

Mr. Maxx "the most misunderstood man on this board".

Bruno, I am not ready yet to make the plunge. I bought a beautiful house last Summer so that was one step. Paying off some debts from two back to back divorces is another. Now almost debt free except for the mortgage. I could go on.

There was two things I learned from my past experience.

1) Make a very careful choice on finding the right RW

2) Don't make a move until you are prepared in everyway for her to join you

If you do not do this and decide to take a chance you could wind up starting all over again with more years lost than the ones you used to prepare. There is wisdom talking here. Too bad few recognise it. In the meantime my hobby is helping guys out.

Maxx  

[Maxx]

I almost hate stepping into this

 or are you just happy to be the resident expert on all things Russian (without ever being there)? 

I have never seen Danack make any claim about being an expert on all things Russian. He has his opinions on a wide range of subjects and one of them is women. RW are women of course so perhaps his comments on RW are based on his observations about women in general? I have heard it said that RW are just women and no different than other women than a few superficial details like accent, Eurasian looks and a propensity to wearing high heels. If so his observations about RW would be equal to those of us successfully or unsuccessfully married to RW, trip or no trip to the FSU.  

 

Maxx

 

 

[rose]

Let me put my 2 cents into a man talk.

DaKnack, I don't mean to offend you (what obviously you don't care about toward others). I'll tell you something, what in my opinion is a hopeless attempt, but I still will give it a try. A lot of people don't like the US and do you know why? Because they see Americans as an arrogant people. Although, I do not agree with such statement, there is some truth in it. I like America and Americans, not all of course, since all people are different under this sun. Unfortunately, there is a rather big group of people who thinks that they are better than the rest. And the rest of the world just doesn't like to see disrespect from this relatively small group of people.

You are the great representative of this group. Do you know why I feel I can say so?
I can read, and I've read your posts. You think of yourself as a very smart person, and I cannot deny that you are relatively smart. Do you know what sells you off? You strong opinions about everything. They are to strong for a really smart person, because the secret of greatness of mind is in ability to see the bigger picture, to hear others, and to be ably to accept that sometimes they can be wrong. You judge everything and everybody from your own, rather limited point of view, very often forgetting that life is not just black/white, it has much more to suggest to us. If I'm not mistaken, people with such limited ability are called narrow-minded.

I know you will not agree with me, but it will just confirm my statement. I'm not trying to insult you, and I'm not trying to start a fight with you, I just try to be honest with you, as well as I always try to be honest with myself. It is very difficult to assess yourself, but very often people from outside can see the whole picture better. Somebody on this forum told me that you are very nice person, and despite I had really strong opinion about you, I accepted it. That's why I've decided to write here, and if that person is right and beneath all what we read in your posts is really a nice person, I will be glad if that person will find strength to hear the truth and maybe correct a little some flaws which piss off people around you.

I believe that people come in this world with a purpose. And the purpose is in constant improving the inner self. You worked very hard on creating an image of a tuff man, and this is good. Something tells me that you had to become tuff to survive difficult times which you've had in your past. Try now to work on a nice side, because that's what attracts people, and as I understand you hope one day to meet the right person. So, try to listen others for the sake of your future.

The thing is that even if you are right in 100% cases, the way you state your opinions might offend others and make the communication with you very difficult. And as we've already figured out here one of the secrets of success in the family is ability to communicate.

After reading your posts in probably 70% of cases I say myself only one thing: "And this guy is a teacher. I wonder what he can teach kids." Maybe you are good in math or whatever subject you teach, but the first and the most important goal of a teacher is to teach kids how to become good people. If you cannot communicate without putting others down, how you can teach student to do it? I don't mean to offend you, but trust me, I know what I'm talking about. Where you are now  careerwise I was already in Russia, and I also could be in the US 6 years ago. I know perfectly well the problem with shortage of teachers here, and know how easy to become one in the US. (For me at least).

You might answer that you are the way you are and you don't care about the opinion of the others. But since you live in a society, you are a part of it, and you just cannot ignore others. Well, you can if you want, but it will not lead you to anything good.

My good advice to you is not answer on my post at once, because I suspect that you might say something mean again, but just think about it for a while, put a little seed of doubt in your head that maybe there is something in my words to you, give it a try.
Use your constructive thinking, because just another reply in your regular way will not take us to anything good, it just will be another worthless fight, nothing more.

[KenC]

 his observations about RW would be equal to those of us successfully or unsuccessfully married to RW, trip or no trip to the FSU.  

OKY doky Maxx.  And I have a valid opinion about Japanese women because I eat sushi.  I just obsorbed their culture via osmosis.  It was just like actually going to Japan.

:hairraising:

KenC

[Maxx]

Ken..... I am glad you see my point. It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong. I will forgive you now for reminding me I am a failure and only possible "framed" by my ex.  

 

Maxx

 

 

[BillyB]

 It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong.

Don't argue with me because I'm not a big man.

[KenC]

Maxx,

I have always maintained that one should "consider the source" for advice given here.  The truth is, is that we only know what people allow us to know about themselves which can be awfully one sided and self serving.  I have heard many a divorce horror story and witnessed one first hand.  In any emotional distressing situation like a divorce, the only people that truly know what transpired is the two people involved in it.  It is human nature to slant or embellish the story in one's favor.  I am sure the Russian wives of the men that seek your consul would have a completely different story from the one you hear.  There is no way you can honestly know which story is the truth and which one is fabricated.

No one needs to remind you that you failed in your marriage to a RW as it is obvious it almost every post you make.  It has almost become a badge of honor for you.  You are into building a reputation of being the "go to source" for DV charges and divorce from RW in general.  I applaud your zeal to help others, but I question whether or not your efforts are helping you move on with your life.  If you continue to sacrifice your future happiness to help others, God bless you because you are a better man than me.  Personally I put my own happiness ahead of the others I try to help.

Back to "considering the source."  Why would anyone seek your advice on how to successfully navigate the perils of finding, marrying and maintaining a good marriage to a RW when we have a plethora of men available here that actually have good marriages?

KenC

 

[Turboguy]

Maxx,


Back to "considering the source."  Why would anyone seek your advise on how to successfully navigate the perils of finding, marrying and maintaining a good marriage to a RW when we have a plethora of men available here that actually have good marriages?

KenC

 

It seems to me that people learn some things buy trying and suceeding and others learn by trying a failing.  Edison tried 10,000 different ways to make  a light bulb before he got one that worked.   His comment is pretty famous that he learned 9999 ways not to build a light bulb.  Edison learned enough to change history by failing.  What makes you think Maxx has not.   I think if you want to learn from others you should listen to those with a wide variety of experices not just those who have succeeded or those who have failed.   Listen to everyone and evalutate which of the experiences and comments are right for you

[KenC]

I think if you want to learn from others you should listen to those with a wide variety of experices not just those who have succeeded or those who have failed.   Listen to everyone and evalutate which of the experiences and comments are right for you

Although there certainly are things you can learn to avoid from people who failed, I would have to say that the successes should be given a priority of your attention.  Otherwise you could find yourself in the same situation as Edison before he succeeded.  Do you want to find 9,999 ways to fail at this?

KenC

[Jay Patches]

His comment is pretty famous that he learned 9999 ways not to build a light bulb. 

I understand what Ken is saying because we've been reading Maxx's posts for a long time now.

I think the difference with Edison is that he kept trying to succeed.  He didn't stop with his first failed bulb, and hold it up as a beacon for all others to admire.  He went right back to work and tried something different.  His focus was on success, not on failure.

I hope that Maxx can eventually do the same.  The last formula didn't work.  What new formula are you trying now?  What are you doing different to succeed?  I assume that success is your goal, and maybe that's not a valid assumption.  You've got your crown of thorns, and maybe it has come to define you.

Edison is defined by his success, regardless the number of failures.  He is, and will always be, the one who invented the light bulb - not the guy who tried 9,999 times.

JP