Boston marathon bombers are Chechens?

[Daveman]

Yes and what you're proposing in this situation is counter productive to upholding that oath.

I, obviously, disagree. 

The government didn't do anything illegal by not reading the suspect his Miranda Rights. There is an exemption for public safety. This suspect does not have the right to remain silent. We need to know if there are any other hidden bombs or collaborators creating bombs or funding their operation. Additional lives are at stake and their rights are important too. Yes?

Very important.  This is an awkward balancing act on a slippery slope.

The government also has the right to give the suspect, an American citizen, combatant status. He will still be tried in a civilian court.

What process is involved in determining combatant status? evidence/counter evidence presented? How can the citizen defend himself against such declaration which could lead to indefinite incarceration, torture, or even the ultimate extreme of an execution sans trial by jury?

As far as the civilian court - that is not guaranteed to someone declared an enemy combatant.

You're assuming our government broke the law and will continue to break the law in this case. I have not seen them break the law yet or usurp the Constitution.

I'm assuming only this:

Amendment VI


In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

[BillyB]

What process is involved in determining combatant status? evidence/counter evidence presented? How can the citizen defend himself against such declaration which could lead to indefinite incarceration, torture, or even the ultimate extreme of an execution sans trial by jury?

Dave, if you and I decide to join forces making a 2 man army and attack the military and/or civilian population, we could be considered combatants....especially if we choose explosives as a preferred weapon. The president has the power to label us as "unlawful combatants" as he did not give a lawful order for us to go to war. According to Geneva conventions soldiers who go to war under direction from their government are protected against criminal prosecution unless they commit war crimes. The question is "Is the suspect a criminal who gets Amendment VI rights or a unlawful war combatant?" Whether or not the suspect is tried as a criminal or unlawful combatant, I'm sure our government will get this right according to the law. They can't afford a technicality and allow this guy to walk free. Who wants to be his neighbor if that happens?

This is an awkward balancing act on a slippery slope.

If we give this last suspect the right to remain silent, it could violate the rights and lives of other people. Between giving this man his full rights and risking other people's lives or stripping some of his rights and interrogating him to learn where the rest of his bombs are and possibly collaborators to save lives, the choice should be an easy one for anybody to make.

[calmissile]

I agree with you DM. Any citizen of the US is equally protected under the Constitution. Normally when someone is arrested and didn't had the opportunity to have the arresting officers read that person's rights afforded to him/her by the Constitution, then the arrest by technicality is illegal.

I think you are mistaken.  Someone not advised of their rights cannot have their statements to the police used against them in court.  There is so much evidence against them in this case, it might not matter.  What is not clear is what is the advantage of not reading him his rights.

The issue of  'enemy combatant' status  is another story and is being argued by all the legal beagles now.  In any case he should receive the death penalty.

I notice the media is already trying to gain sympathy for the terrorist.  He is so young...... he was under the influence of his older brother, etc.    Makes me sick!

[LiveFromUkraine]

I think you are mistaken.  Someone not advised of their rights cannot have their statements to the police used against them in court.  There is so much evidence against them in this case, it might not matter.  What is not clear is what is the advantage of not reading him his rights.

It seems like the gov is more interested in finding out if they were helped by some other organization. 

[GQBlues]

I think you are mistaken.  Someone not advised of their rights cannot have their statements to the police used against them in court.  There is so much evidence against them in this case, it might not matter.  What is not clear is what is the advantage of not reading him his rights.

Yeah, I believe I'm mistaken. The arrest stands except if the arresting officer didn't, or neglected to, read a person's Miranda rights then anything that person say during the course of interrogation/questioning cannot be used 'against him'. The person can now say he in fact is guilty for the crime and they cannot 'use' that against him. The media and authorities have flooded the public with 'circumstantial evidences' so this point is moot. He also cannot declare 'not guilty' (if he in fact is innocent) as that, too is no longer admissible since a defense is not available for him. There is something so wrong with this.

As far as I'm concerned, all they have are circumstantial evidences and they're not even good evidences. There's absolutely no available incriminating evidence that directly placed these two individual to the actual crime. Isn't it strange they haven't televised the cops going to these guys home/s and showing a bomb lab in their living rooms with Osama Bin Laden poster all over the walls?

Both their records are clean. Even the FBI's investigation came out zip, nada, zero.

If you're the subject of a citywide manhunt, why the heck would you hijack a car and declare you're the person responsible for the bombing then let the guy go knowing full well the media and cops had already released info about you. You just gave up your location, the vehicle you're on, much less have the cell phone GPS track your butt because you didn't toss it out.

It's difficult for me to envision these guys fleeing while toting a few pressure cooker bombs along with them so they can throw them against the cops during a gun battle.


I'm not advocating the guilty person should not pay for this crime. Matter of fact, the  person/s responsible of that heinous crime should be dealt the death penalty ASAP.

Something is just so, so wrong about all these...

[mendeleyev]

The Voice of Russia has an interesting angle on the story, including video of the Boston Islamic Centre saying that the two brothers were "infrequent visitors" and that the younger had attended only one time.

http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_04_21/Tsarnaevs-were-infrequent-visitors-Boston-area-mosque/

[mendeleyev]

Amnesty International condemns USA for treatment of Boston bombers:

http://rbth.ru/news/2013/04/21/amnesty_international_in_russia_agrees_with_criticism_of_us_authorities__25261.html

[TomT]

The Tsarnaev brothers are not Chechens any more than I am French by virtue of my ancestors having lived there. They were both born in Kyrgyzstan and never lived in Chechnya. All best (worst?), their ancestors were Chechen. The media has played up the connection but it's as irrelevant as a Brit becoming a Muslim terrorist.

[GQBlues]

...
http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_04_21/Tsarnaevs-were-infrequent-visitors-Boston-area-mosque/

...Dzhokhar Tsarnayev, the suspect behind the Boston Marathon bombing who was arrested on Friday night, suffered a throat injury and may not be able to talk, a federal official told CNN on condition of anonymity....

...Dr. David Schoenfeld, who was involved in treating the older of the two bombing suspects - 26-year-old old Tamerlan Tsarnayev, said that the man had been so riddled with gunshot wounds on arrival to the hospital that it was impossible to determine which wound had been fatal. The doctor added that if Tsarnayev had been wearing a vest with explosives, he wasn't anymore, upon arrival to the hospital....

[BillyB]

Both their records are clean. Even the FBI's investigation came out zip, nada, zero.

There's a first time for everything, even if it comes from bad boys. So far we know the older brother has been question in 2011 by the FBI and he's posted Jihadist material on the internet. I'm sure he's read a lot of hate material.

If you're the subject of a citywide manhunt, why the heck would you hijack a car and declare you're the person responsible for the bombing then let the guy go knowing full well the media and cops had already released info about you.

Can't assume common sense from a person who commits senseless acts.


Just read in the news the suspect is now answering questions by writing answers. Can't talk yet. They hope he provides info on anybody else involved. Authorities are alarmed at all the guns and explosives in their possession and wondering if they had help.

[mendeleyev]

Moscow Times on the possible Chechnya connection:

The quest for answers to what possibly inspired Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev to plot two explosions near the finish line of the Boston Marathon exposes the complex and convoluted history of the North Caucasus, which for centuries has instigated violence across Russia.The Boston bombings have shown how boiling inter-ethnic clashes in the Caucasus might have a global dimension. 

The history of the Tsarnaev family closely mirrors Russia's sporadic policy toward its most ethnically diverse region, which suffers from near-daily violence. The two brothers' father, Anzor, was born in the town of Tokmok, Kyrgyzstan, where his parents were deported during the 1944 forced resettlement program of Chechen and Ingush people to Central Asia. "Operation Lentil," as the program masterminded by Soviet dictator Josef Stalin and secret police founder Lavrenty Beria was called, fostered the Chechen drive to gain independence from Moscow.

The two brothers' grandfather died in Kyrgyzstan when a shell exploded as he was scavenging for metal that could be sold as scrap, according to The Associated Press.The brothers never lived in Chechnya, but their historic homeland's unyielding struggle for independence seemed to be one of the main reference points for their own quest for identity in the U.S.Despite living in the state of Massachusetts for over a decade, the younger brother, Dzhokhar, set up an account on Vkontakte, Russia's largest social network, where he was subscribed to groups dedicated to Chechnya.

The Boston Globe reported that Dzhokhar also expressed an interest in the history of Chechnya by contacting a history professor at the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth who taught a course on the subject."Many Chechens are united by their national drama, by the two wars that have devastated their country.

Even if they did not experience it directly, they can still be attached to it through their parents," said Gregory Shvedov, editor of the Caucasian Knot news agency, a leading source of information on the Caucasus. "Young people whose families immigrated to another country can use their sense of belonging to their homeland to form friendships," he added.

Read more: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/hunt-for-boston-clues-reveals-tangled-caucasus-web/478981.html#ixzz2RCWy24DW
The Moscow Times

[Larry1]

I noticed this headline and clicked on the piece.  I thought I would pass it on because RWD is heavily focused on Russia and FSUW:

Did US-Russia deal in 2011 lead to Boston bombings?

Among the more unusual aspects of what has been learned thus far about the Brothers Tsarnaev is that in January 2011 Russian officials encouraged their U.S. counterparts to take notice of Tamerlan, the older of the two, for possible Chechen terrorist links. The only known result of the interviews that followed was to delay processing of Tamerlan's U.S. citizenship application. (His younger brother, Dzhokhar, became a citizen on Sept. 11, 2012.) But the Russian tip was part of the process that led to a subsequent agreement between that country and the U.S. concerning Chechen terrorists. The May 26, 2011, agreement -- the Joint Statement of the Presidents of the United States of America and the Russian Federation on Counter-terrorism Cooperation -- can be found on the White House website.

The key passage from that agreement with respect to the events in Boston is this: "We reaffirmed our common view of the threat to global security posed by Al Qaeda and advocated continued cooperation to disrupt, dismantle, and defeat Al Qaeda. Identifying and isolating terrorists is integral to our efforts. We welcomed Russia's efforts to update and enhance the implementation of the sanctions regime under United Nations Security Council Resolution 1822, and the decision by the United States to list Doku Umarov of the so-called 'Caucasus Emirate' as a specially designated global terrorist under U.S. Executive Order 13244."

For Westerners, Doku Umarov and the Caucasus Emirate may be among the least familiar elements of the legions of radical jihadist groups that thrive in the Muslim world from the Caucasus region of Russia, including the separatist Chechen Republic, through Afghanistan and Pakistan, and across the Middle East. In October 2007, Umarov declared himself emir of an emirate that stretches from the Black Sea in the west to the Caspian Sea in the east. He justified it as something he was required to do as a Muslim following Sharia law. In the same declaration, Umarov described the U.S., Britain and Israel as enemies of Muslims everywhere. Based on these facts, Umarov and the Caucasus Emirate appear to share radical jihadist characteristics routinely found in more familiar groups including Hezbollah in Lebanon and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

Independent national security consultant John Roberts was struck by the timing of the Russian warning to the U.S. about Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2011 and the trip Tsarnnaev reportedly made to Russia later that year. "Because it takes about two years to mount insider terrorist attacks [identifying people to recruit, recruiting them, training them, selecting and planning the target, etc.] the Boston Marathon bombings make sense as a reprisal for our cooperation with the Russians against the Caucasus Emirate," Roberts told The Washington Examiner. He also noted that "we should have known after signing the May 26 agreement that it would mean the Chechens would start to target us co-equally with the Russians. Somebody dropped the ball, failed to do the math." All of this is informed speculation at this point, but law enforcement agencies should quickly determine whether the U.S. needs to be on high alert against Chechen terrorism.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/did-us-russia-deal-in-2011-lead-to-boston-bombings/article/2527772

As the last sentence points out: at this point this is only speculation.

[mendeleyev]

The latest from Voice of Russia Radio on the Boston connection to Chechnya:

http://english.ruvr.ru/radio_broadcast/9255436/211649906/

[GQBlues]

The latest from Voice of Russia Radio on the Boston connection to Chechnya:

http://english.ruvr.ru/radio_broadcast/9255436/211649906/

Heck, just on the picture to the left alone, there's at least 5 guys with backpacks walking around. I wonder if they are suspects, too. But the guy with that white cap on is actually carrying a backpack that closely matches the one they showed that appears to have been used for the bombing.
 
Apparently, Dzokhar's throat wound is self-inflicted which is why he can't 'talk'.    Imagine that. Must be from the excertion suffered from throwing those pressure cooker bombs.
 
That notorious gunbattle where the older brother died as a result of being 'run over' by his younger brother, the recorded video was showing a whole lot of ammunition being fired....strange each bullet hit their intended target/s and there are no damages anywhere else, eh?  But they were supposedly able to tackle the older brother on the ground to handcuff him until his younger brother ran him over.

[mendeleyev]

Some of the government's narrative doesn't match: the initial autopsy report indicated that he died of gunshot wounds, not from being run over by a car.

[TomT]

Even if they did not experience it directly, they can still be attached to it through their parents," said Gregory Shvedov, editor of the Caucasian Knot news agency, a leading source of information on the Caucasus. "Young people whose families immigrated to another country can use their sense of belonging to their homeland to form friendships," he added.

Shvedov failed to mention that the parents never lived in Chechnya either, which just goes to show that shit reporting isn't limited to Fox news, CNN and the New York Post.

[TomT]

... But they were supposedly able to tackle the older brother on the ground to handcuff him until his younger brother ran him over.

Some news outlets reported the "hit-and-run" incident; some didn't. Whether it's true or not, it's pretty funny. A leaked autopsy photo did not show Tamerlan's to be  "riddled with bullets," as the Russian press reported. The most substantial wound was a gaping hole in the left side of his chest which appeared to be a shrapnel injury.

[GQBlues]

Some news outlets reported the "hit-and-run" incident; some didn't. Whether it's true or not, it's pretty funny. A leaked autopsy photo did not show Tamerlan's to be  "riddled with bullets," as the Russian press reported. The most substantial wound was a gaping hole in the left side of his chest which appeared to be a shrapnel injury.

Yeah...everyone was there and everyone was so sure they're right. Except no one can come up with same story...it sure the heck looks like they're making things up along the way now, doesn't it? When they found out where the kid was hiding, neighbors nearby reported loud multiple 'gun battle'. I've seen no picture of bullet holes on the boat, nor have I seen the weapons that alleged suspect were using.

If you consider the state and city police were on this en mass, the FBI, the DHS, and every freakin' news media, the hospitals, the office of the mayor, the governor, the President for chrissakes..and the story keeps changing.
 
Why on gawd's green earth will anyone shoot themselves, of all places, on the throat.    and why on gawd's green earth has Obama not yet arranged a community mass held for those that perished in West, Texas' explosion like he had within days of the Boston incident?
 
Now, what if, ultimately they found out the reason for these inconsistencies is borne by the fact they made a serious error and they did in fact pinned the wrong guys - do any of you guys honestly believe this kid will be absolved and be freed? Heck no, the boy is toast no matter what.
 
There's a huge part of me that believe, due to these inconsistencies, this is a frameup that isn't going as neatly as planned. That the real person/s responsible for the bombing have definitely a more complex  matter attached to it. This isn't a conspiracy theory, but rather questioning the events taking place so far.

[LiveFromUkraine]

  and why on gawd's green earth has Obama not yet arranged a community mass held for those that perished in West, Texas' explosion like he had within days of the Boston incident?
 

I think he is mad at Texas for not wanting to cooperate with obamacare. 


I have a hard time believing anything in the media.


Hell, Fox news claimed some actress was the bomber.  heh
http://www.nj.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2013/04/zooey_deschanel_boston_bombing.html

[GQBlues]

I think he is mad at Texas for not wanting to cooperate with obamacare. 

Well, he should at least send Joe Biden. That old fart isn't doing much of anything lately.
 

...I have a hard time believing anything in the media.


Hell, Fox news claimed some actress was the bomber.  heh

LOL. Well, had I still been single, Zooey can pack her backpack to visit me anytime & we can have our own pressure cooker party. 

[LiveFromUkraine]

Well, he should at least send Joe Biden. That old fart isn't doing much of anything lately.
 

Joe was used strictly for eye candy and isn't suppose to leave the white house.





Maybe we will see him at a MOB'er event once he leaves office.

[TomT]

Except no one can come up with same story...it sure the heck looks like they're making things up along the way now, doesn't it?

I haven't heard so many conflicting stories since Benghazi. 

[LiveFromUkraine]

I haven't heard so many conflicting stories since Benghazi.

It seems to be the norm to get anything out fast regardless if it is substantiated. 

[mendeleyev]

<blockquote>

Even if they did not experience it directly, they can still be attached to it through their parents," said Gregory Shvedov, editor of the Caucasian Knot news agency, a leading source of information on the Caucasus. "Young people whose families immigrated to another country can use their sense of belonging to their homeland to form friendships," he added.

</blockquote>

Shvedov failed to mention that the parents never lived in Chechnya either, which just goes to show that shit reporting isn't limited to Fox news, CNN and the New York Post.

You didn't read the first couple of paragraphs then.

The history of the Tsarnaev family closely mirrors Russia's sporadic policy toward its most ethnically diverse region, which suffers from near-daily violence. The two brothers' father, Anzor, was born in the town of Tokmok, Kyrgyzstan, where his parents were deported during the 1944 forced resettlement program of Chechen and Ingush people to Central Asia...

True that he may not have stooped to the putrid cesspool known as the New York Times, but maybe the links to Chechen causes on YouTube and VK were just imaginary, or planted?

[TomT]

You didn't read the first couple of paragraphs then.

I read them. Stating that the father was born in Kyrgyzstan is not the same as stating that the parents had never lived in Chechnya.


Even in the absence of the YouTube and VK links, Tanerlan appeared to be a loser and a loose cannon. For anyone to suggest that the bombing was, somehow, in Chechnya's best interests would be crazy. The odds are that these clowns acted alone, without any prompting by native Chechens.