Russia-US relations

[Muzh]

There are few in Washington with the intelligence to understand legal precedent under international law.

I'm sorry Mendy but I'm surprised you would say something like this. Really.

Someday, at some point, there will be a crisis of some sort in the USA. When foreign troops roll in to restore order, using the same methods the USA does now to enforce her role as the world's policeman, American citizens will come to the realization that "they built this" response and now are on the receiving end.

Every time we act in conflicts where we have no strategic interests, we are opening ourselves up to the tables being reversed someday. We are slowly giving away our sovereignty little by little.

That day may come in a very far distant future. And by the time the situation is ripe, the whole dynamics will be totally different. YOU should know that.

My memory hasn't been so sharp lately so tell me again, what American strategic interests are served in Syria by helping Islamic rebels topple Assad?

Both sides of that civil war would destroy American if given half a chance, so in acting to cripple one side and arm the other, who is our "home team" ally in this conflict?

Oh, and if killing civilians is so bad (and it isn't good) then where was the USA during the Sudan conflict? Hmm, we could name several where we missed the chance to stop the killing, so what makes Syria so special?

Syrian "red-line" was a stoopid move. Now he has to save face. No ands, ifs, or buts.

[TS]

Very unlikely any foreign country could successfully invade USA as we have to many citizens with guns of their own.  Have you noticed the politicians have stopped talking about taking guns from citizens because they know in many states will not get elected.
Now if Canada allowed tens of millions to form in their country and attack maybe a chance. But with todays intelligence USA would be all over that.
There is going to have to be a huge change in technology in order for a huge number of troops to land on the USA and take over.  That technology will have to move large numbers quickly. 
 

[GQBlues]

Don't be so sure TS.

Even as we speak, the Russian military had been heavily engaged in strategic planning and maneuvers for landing large forces upon the US' shores. Snowden had already began counter-intelligence spying by feeding the US government with precious intelligence, and had been actively posting these information back in mediums like Youtube.

Here's one of the highly classified spy feed posted on YouTube the Pentagon had been reviewing. You can plainly see how the Russian military plan to attack places like Venice Beach.

[SANDRO43]

You can plainly see how the Russian military plan to attack places like Venice Beach.

Nah, see those 3 huge fans astern of the landing craft? It's clearly designed for a tropical/equatorial deployment, to keep assault troops cool when landing .

[Anotherkiwi]

Nah, see those 3 huge fans astern of the landing craft? It's clearly designed for a tropical/equatorial deployment, to keep assault troops cool when landing .

I have three photos which I took in St Petersburg in 2006 - one vessel is this very hovercraft, which I've labelled "Russia's fastest warship," and the other is an old square-rigger, which I've labelled "Russia's slowest warship."     They were berthed closer together than I first thought (the photos were taken only three minutes apart).

[mendeleyev]

I'm sorry Mendy but I'm surprised you would say something like this. Really.

Muzh, perhaps it is why I"m an Independent, but I find few in either party with a clue. As just one example I watched comments from Sen. McCain on a news show and didn't know whether to cry or throw the monitor out the window at the combination of ignorance and arrogance demonstrated.

[SANDRO43]

and the next is an old square-rigger, which I've labelled "Russia's slowest warship." 

The Sedov? Originally a German barque (Magdalene Vinnen II,  then Kommodore Johnsen), was handed over to the Soviet Union as war reparation at the end of 1945 and used to train navy cadets:

We still use our Amerigo Vespucci to train cadets of our Naval Academy in Livorno:

[Anotherkiwi]

The Sedov? Originally a German barque (Magdalene Vinnen II,  then Kommodore Johnsen), was handed over to the Soviet Union as war reparation at the end of 1945 and used to train navy cadets:

[/c]

Definitely not!  Only three masts for a start, and it has what appear to be gunports below decks.

[SANDRO43]

Definitely not!  Only three masts for a start, and it has what appear to be gunports below decks.

Well, post the photo, then .

[cc3]

Muzh, perhaps it is why I"m an Independent, but I find few in either party with a clue. As just one example I watched comments from Sen. McCain on a news show and didn't know whether to cry or throw the monitor out the window at the combination of ignorance and arrogance demonstrated.

McCain is, as Limbaugh likes to term it, extremely "low information". As a fellow Naval Academy alumnus, I know that he was well known there for his ignorance. As a fellow Naval Aviator, fighter pilot and Naval flight instructor, I can safely report that his professional reputation was that of a "screamer" for his abusive and bullying tactics with flight students.

[Gator]

Even as we speak, the Russian military had been heavily engaged in strategic planning and maneuvers for landing large forces upon the US' shores.... You can plainly see how the Russian military plan to attack places like Venice Beach.

If the Ruskies invade California, will they become obligated for California's current debts? If so, maybe we should ask Canada to allow the Ruskies  unlimited passage to invade Detroit. 

[Gator]

You can be sure that hundreds if not thousands of American agents are all over Syria and that we are supporting  some factions such as the  Free Syria Army directly and indirectly.   It is now widely accepted that at the time our Ambassador was killed in Benghazi, he was arranging for shipment of captured Libyan  arms to such factions in Syria. 
 
Assad will not last even with continued Russian support.    Unless something changes  Syria will become much messier as this escalates.  And even messier after Assad is overthrown.  How many different factions are actively involved in the conflict?  I need a scorecard.

[Gator]

Final thought for the day:
 
Does anyone believe Russia is upset by the escalating conflict in Syria?  Consider the spike in oil prices and the added revenues to Russia from its 7+ MMbbls/day of oil exports.   

[mendeleyev]

Gator, true that Russia benefits from the increased oil revenue but the Russians are also very concerned about who takes over after Assad for a couple of reasons. One is the increase in Islamic radicalization of Russian republics in the Caucasus region, for example. The pattern is for young radicals to cross international boundaries easily to fight for allied causes. Boston, anyone?

Perhaps you remember how Chechen fighters so freely entered the battles against Georgia in 2008. It seemed at first odd to have Chechen pickup trucks outfitted with machine gun platforms alongside Russian tanks and troop carriers given that the two are mortal enemies. However Georgia adopted Christianity in the 300s, not long after Armenia became the first Christian country in the world in 301, and was not conquered by any of the Muslim kingdoms as happened to so many neighboring lands. Many Muslims worldwide see Christian Georgia and especially Christian Russia as prime targets for conquering in the name of Islam.

To the untrained eye it may have surprised much of the world when Chechen fighters came out of the woodwork so to speak to fight alongside their traditional enemy. However the Chechens came because the two breakaway provinces, South Ossetia and Abkhazia, are primarily Muslim. Vladimir Putin likely appreciated their help because they did some of the dirtiest fighting against innocent civilians thus allowing the Russian Army to remain above the abuses while pinning it on the Chechen fighters.

In the broad overview however, Putin understands that he represents a primarily Christian Orthodox country with a significant Muslim minority and it is the destabilization of Syria, and the radicals who would most likely step into the vacuum, that concerns Russia first. Syria is a lot closer to Russia geographically than it is to the USA and the fallout with a radical victory is going to eventually threaten Russia long before it threatens the USA.

Russia sees herself as on the front lines of the war against Islamic radicalization and the fall of moderate/secular Syria in Russia's back yard would be significant. Thus as Hussein Obama arms the Syrian rebels, and in effect converts the American military into "the Air Force for Al-Qaeda," Mr. Putin feels that he is justified in opposing America's reckless lurch back into the arms of Al-Qaeda and their drive to create a new Islamic caliphate.

A second and also important concern to Russia is the concept of Moscow as the "Third Rome" of Christianity. While the Ecumenical Patriarch in Constantinople still retains his 'see' as a position of honour, in practicality over half of all Orthodox Christians in the world fall under the jurisdiction of the Moscow Patriarch. Reviving a practice that was shelved during the Soviet period, the Russian government has dusted off the idea of Moscow as the "Third Rome" of Christianity and Mr. Putin takes it seriously as to the responsibility for Christian minorities in other lands. One could certainly argue that there are political advantages as well, but I am not the one who will ultimately be the judge of Vladimir Putin's sincerity of faith.

[Boethius]

The Chechens were in Georgia before 2008.  They were using the Pankisi Gorge as a base.  This became an issue for the Russians well before 9/11, as the area was lawless, rife with kidnappings, a based for drug smuggling, and for terrorist training grounds.  The neocons, including  supported the Chechens and largely ignored Russian protestations, even granting asylum to Chechen terrorists.  It was onlly after 9/11 that Russian concerns over the Pankisi Gorge were acknowledged by the U.S.

[cc3]

Mendy: "Russia sees herself as on the front lines of the war against Islamic radicalization "

God hopes that someone and some nation steps into the trenches against the global jihadist movement seeking to conquer the world. Obama and his corps ("corps", not Obama's "corpse") of islamist apologizers certainly are ceding the globe to the barbarian monsters, as we 'sheeple' slavishly allow them to do so.

[mendeleyev]

The Chechens were in Georgia before 2008.

True, but Russia seemed not to mind their elevated presence in August 2008.

[mendeleyev]

McCain is, as Limbaugh likes to term it, extremely "low information".

I try to remember his ordeals as a prisoner of war but each day my level of respect for him continues to not just drop, it plunges.

[Gator]

Mendy, I agree the long-term implications are immense.

[lordtiberius]

We are going to war.  Not because I want it and not because the American people want it,  but a small clique inside the White House want to recapture the news cycle.  That is all yhe Axelrods, Pfoules and Jarretts care about.  For all we know the Syrian rebels may have killed their own people.  We cant trust them.  They are al queda.

There will be an air and sea component to this war.  Russian ships face our assets in the Med.  We have never killed Russians before.  This is really really bad. 

Why cant there be a cease fire?  why cant there be a partition of Syria?  Why cant there be a settlement?  Maybe its not feasible or maybe the intl community doesnt want it. 

this war should be called the dictators war because each actor is soing this to counterbalance their own unpopularity at home.

[Gator]

Finally I found short guide to the many factions involved in Syria and the Middle East.   This should sum it up nicely for those who feel confused:
 
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/the-middle-east-explained-in-one-excellent-letter-to-the-edi

[mendeleyev]

Lot of truth in that article, Gator.


http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/how-the-west-is-helping-to-destroy-christianity-in-syria/

[mendeleyev]

We have never killed Russians before

Well, we killed each other quietly during the Cold War, in sporadic numbers. We actively killed each other in 1918-1920 when we entered the Civil war on the side of the White Army.

The USA action, an impeachable offense, will ultimately pave the way for Islamic forces to take over Syria, then the real civil war will begin as Shiite vs. Sunni forces battle for control which means that Saudi Arabia and Iran will enter the theatre full force. Any surviving religious minorities left in the country will be quickly slaughtered and control of the oil pipelines that run thru Syria will be just one of the reasons for groups wanting control.

This will end ugly, very ugly.

[lordtiberius]

Russians dont have clean hands Mendeleyev.  Defending Bashar Assad is disgusting.

[mendeleyev]

There is a lot more to it that the US Marines riding in to save the children. Sorry.

Remind me again what strategic interest America has for getting our boots into this pile of rancid waste?

Were this really about saving the children, we'd first find out whodunit before assigning blame on who we hope was responsible. As for chemical weapons, where was the outrage of many Americans when the Kurds were being gassed, the mass murders of thousands, not just 1400, but thousands in Sudan? We could count several hotspots in the world this year that overshadow the tragedy in Syria. Where is the call to send troops for those women and children? We might as well go invade every country in the world just as a flippin' preventative measure!

Bashar Assad is at this point better than the alternative. He is disgusting but the ones who would benefit from American intervention would make him look like a Catholic saint.

The good news is that Obama has received word from ranking fellow democrats reminding him that acting alone without Congressional approval would be an impeachable offense. Thankfully he has no balls and fewer brains so he'll submit it to Congress, they'll vote it down, and he'll wipe his hands and blame the Republicans after they get him off the hook. Thank God.

His weapons running scheme out of Libya is backfiring and those weapons are increasingly turning up in the hands of some really bad guys. This is his mess. Don't blame the Russians for our inexperience, inability to listen to others, and our stupidity.