Russia-US relations

[lordtiberius]

If Southern Ossentia has the right to self determine, why doesn't Chechenya or Dagestan?  If the Russian people should have in your opinion have clean elections, then why don't the Syrians?

[mendeleyev]

If SO was a thorn in Russia's side, blowing up trains and bus stations, then you'd have a point. Same for Abkhazia.

You do understand that SO and Abkhazia were the Russian response to Kosovo, right?

I didn't know that it was the USA's right and responsibility to grant free and clean elections to every nation! Wow, when are we invading Sudan?

[lordtiberius]

Just answer the question directly Mendeleyev.

Point of information South Sudan is its own country, but Dagesttan and Chechenya are not. 

What specifically did Senator McCain say about Putin that is false?  If anything, the Straight Talk Express helped Navalny - Putin's main opponent.  No?

[mendeleyev]

Just answer the question directly Mendeleyev.

LT, I think you heard me but you don't like my answer. 

Again, If SO was a thorn in Russia's side, blowing up trains and bus stations, then you'd have a point. Same for Abkhazia.

You do understand that SO and Abkhazia were the Russian response to Kosovo, right?

Point of information South Sudan is its own country, but Dagesttan and Chechenya are not. 

Yes, recently (2011).

1- Where was the USA's sense of outrage over millions killed in that conflict? I'll tell you why there was no outrage: because it was Muslims killing Christians and non-Muslims (Presbyterian missionaries had operated in the south of Sudan for decades) and we're too PC to get upset over such killings.

2- Muslim north vowing to kill their own people in the south till finally the African Union stepped in. Let us see, hmm, 17 years for the first war and 20 years in the second war. The Muslim Army in the north had this nasty little habit of dropping drums of fuel from helicopters. Those drums were filled with things like nails and other pieces of metal. They'd explode those in the centre of villages where the maximum number of women and children would be--the goal was extermination of anyone not Muslim and the people of the south were not for the most part.

22 million people, most innocent civilian non combatants, died in that fighting, LT. Now I know that 22 million deaths from things like exploding fuel barrels is just a drop in the bucket when compared to 1,500 in a Sarin gas attack in Syria, but still don't you think the USA should have shown the same concern?

If anything, the Straight Talk Express helped Navalny - Putin's main opponent.  No?

Enlighten me.

Somehow I missed the sight of John McCain's bus on Arbat. Maybe he was parked over on Tverskaya or Kutuzovsky?

[mendeleyev]

(Voice of Russia)

Russia's President Vladimir Putin has offered US Senator John McCain to visit a session of the Valdai International Discussion Club which was set up by a major Moscow-based news agency as a floor giving experts from around the world an opportunity to debate on ‘Russian issues’.


Pesident Vladimir Putin, RIA Novosti.

Putin believes that participation in a session might help McCain make up for his deficit of information about Russia.
Speaking at the Discussion Club, President Vladimir Putin admitted that the present government in Russia had its flaws and shortcomings, but then no government in any democratic country is perfect.

“Russia probably does deserve a better government. But does the United States have such a government? This is a big question,” Putin said.

Read more at Voice of Russia radio.

Mendeleyev note: Of course Senator McCain already knows everything, about anything, just ask him. The offer is classy however and is an excellent response to McCain's letter to Russian citizens.

[lordtiberius]

miscalculation Putin, our man is a publicity hound and the Husky Rusky elevayed one out of one hundred above the 99%.  nice job Vlad

[Hammer2722]

I think someone has been drinking the Putin cool aid for much too long....nuff said.

[cc3]

Putin and McCain bickering back and forth reminds me of some of the feuds that pop up from time to time on this forum and on RUA (more so on RUA), i.e., irrational middle-aged to elderly men ceaselessly ranting at each other, to the bemusement of the sidelines observers.

 

[Faux Pas]

FP, if United Russia had enough votes to win but dirty tricks allowed them to win at a higher percentage, the election is still dirty but on the international stage not much anyone could do about it.  That is my point.

When the opposition swells, and I believe it to be morphing into something that it will emerge stronger, then the seriousness of a dirty election becomes more dangerous for those in power because if the opposition is truly strong enough to challenge with a sufficient quantity of votes, then the public outcry is much greater and the ruling class loses legitimacy.

One of the reasons the outcry was limited in the 2011 Duma elections and the 2012 presidential election, is that not a single Russian believed in their heart that the status quo had seriously been challenged. They understood that the election was dirty but they also understood that had the election been clean, the result would have been nearly the same in the Duma and the very same in the presidential contest. The only differences being the winning percentage.

That doesn't forgive dirty elections, but it doesn't mean the opposition always wins in a clean election either. I see this process of democracy in Russia as something that will happen on a gradual process and perhaps sooner than many realize.

You can't state that with any degree of certainty. Once an election is tainted Mendy, it's tainted and nothing about the election can be trusted. The presidential election for Putin was being shaped years before Putin ever left office the last time. Alliances formed, dissension quelled. Putin's ascend to his 2nd presidency was a coronation more than an election. The margin by which United Russia and Putin would win was foretold prior to the election. That is just a little bit more serious than a dirty around the edges election. The Emperor has no clothes and you're not laughing there guy.

What I see as dangerous are the McCain types who do great harm in at least two ways:

1- They are easily painted as dangerous outsiders and are easy fodder for nationalistic types to rally the folk against foreign influences. Russians tried American capitalism/democracy and got Boris Yeltsin and starvation/hard times while Western bankers and investment wizards made great profits while the common man ate the ducks out of the Moscow river. It is easy to paint McCain and his ilk in a very negative light and thus his ideas are flushed down the drain--a sort of throwing out the baby with the bath water. McCain may say all the right things but in truth he has no moral legitimacy in Russia.


2- McCain and Company (Obama included) would love for the chance to play puppet master with a behind the scenes makeover of Russia. Russia could easily become another vassal state, an extension of the USA, and every Russian over the age of 3 understands this. Heaven forbid that Russia might see something from a different angle or have a different opinion than Washington! If McCain and his fellow hawks thought there was half the chance of success they'd pour heart and soul into another version of the Cairo revolution, but this time in Moscow.

I can agree with this. I'll state it one farther. The Putin regime is also. McCain and Putin as well as Obama are same birds of a feather. It's a power play to deceive those everyday folks not paying attention. Nothing more than posturing

I'd like for Mr. Putin to be gone someday, but on the terms of the Russian people without outside influence. Obama has mucked up Egypt so badly that he should be impeached. If McCain and Obama were given half the chance they'd create another cluster muck in Moscow, and with Obama leaning toward all things Islamic you'd see civil war within a year.

Most folks do not see that happening without blood in the streets of Russia. Seemingly including Russians. You are preaching to the choir on the evils of McCain, Obama and Islam.  But, I did want to ask you this. In a post earlier you state the Russian government has ties and duty to protect Christians and Christianity. Why then is their record against the state of Israel so dismal in favor of Muslim countries?

You of course recall the two Chechen wars and it was Bush-Cheney-McCain behind the scenes with the CIA stirring up things inside places like Chechnya and Dagestan. What our idiots in DC don't have the mental capacity to understand is that even if Putin handed over the keys and said you're free to go peacefully, republics like those are going to continue the fight to conquer holy Orthodox Russia for the glory of Islam.

So, there is a lot of mischef that powers can play, and once in a while a saint like Edward Snowden comes along to help us put the brakes on a little but I find that often my own country loves to play both sides against the middle and we speak with forked tongues as the Indians like to say.

Hmm, the Indians: the way we conquered the Indians offers yet another exhibit of American exceptionalism at our finest, Senator McCain.

Now that Mendy, is complete intellectual dishonesty. You are carrying water for Putin and his tactics whether you wish to admit it or not. Why I guess only you know for certain.

Radical secular Islam is a problem the world over. They don't want to live peaceful with non-believers. Their holy book and prophets call for complete subjugation. Our Western Politicians and the Eastern ones as well specifically Putin use this as a way to control their own populace.

[mendeleyev]

Hammer my friend, were you to ask V. Putin if I was carrying his water, and were you to read my comments on the Putin administrations over the long term and not just over Syria, you'd find your own comments curious. Go back to this section on Reforming Russia if you want to know how I view Mr. Putin in the big picture.

[mendeleyev]

Why then is their record against the state of Israel so dismal in favor of Muslim countries?

As a supporter of Israel myself, I have wondered the same myself. As you know, Russia has a long history of antisemitism that goes back much further than the Soviets and for generations of Tsarist rule.

Radical secular Islam is a problem the world over. They don't want to live peaceful with non-believers. Their holy book and prophets call for complete subjugation. Our Western Politicians and the Eastern ones as well specifically Putin use this as a way to control their own populace.

If we take out the word secular then we agree. One of the reasons for the intense battle for control over Syria has to do with that region being a part of Islamic end of the world eschatology.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu met recently in Sochi and their conversation was very cordial--that was reported in the Mendeleyev Journal. I hope that Russia can transform this relationship as much of the modern day alliances were formed immediately following WWII with the Western Allies on one side and Russia and the Muslim countries on the other side.

What is curious is that were you to ask the average Muslim believer about Russia and a common thread is the belief that Islam has an Allah granted right to someday rule Russia and Russian leaders are very well aware of this. Thus their modern day alliances with Muslim countries do need to be questioned.

[mendeleyev]

Sometimes life is enjoyable without the distraction of additional commentary:

[mendeleyev]

Meeting at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) Regional Anti-Terrorist Structure in Yaroslavl:

Some 400 Russian mercenaries may be fighting in Syria, Federal Security Service First Deputy Director Sergei Smirnov said.

(The mercenaries are from areas such as Chechnya and Dagestan.)

Mr. Smirnov said that "Mercenaries are really being recruited. We think that about 300-400 people went there from our country. They will be back, which is naturally a great danger," he said on Friday.

The Federal Security Service first deputy head said that mercenaries in Syria were not a separate item on the SCO RATS agenda.
"We had a small-format discussion and stated that the problem had affected all SCO member countries. Mercenaries are really being recruited," he said.

Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_09_20/Up-to-400-Russian-mercenaries-may-be-fighting-in-Syria-FSS-3901/

 

[mendeleyev]

As relations between the Russia and the USA continue to deteriorate, here is an article with some interesting perspectives:

http://russia-direct.org/content/why-don%E2%80%99t-americans-and-john-mccain-vladimir-putin

[Boethius]

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=16050.msg343185#msg343185

Can she see Putin from her house?

Seriously, mendy, you lose credibility in my eyes when you approvingly quote that vapid hypocrite.
 

[GQBlues]

My opinion regarding McCain's silly letter is just that, silly.

The American public will be better served had he sunk his attention to our present domestic issues, notably our upcoming fiscal matters. McCain, to me, is role playing in the international scene which he shouldn't be doing. He's overstepping his Congressional job duties. It would've serve Americans so much better had he refrained from participating from this silly political shenanigans between Putin and Obama. McCain, for some strange reason, seem to have appointed himself as Obama's unofficial stooge.

Let the US eat crow for the next 3.5 years. The majority made the choice for all of us last November, thus we shall live with that decision.

[steveboy]

What do all your wives or other half's think about you lot spending most of your time ranting in here?? Shouldn't you be getting ready for a nice weekend together? Im just wondering maybe if your out at a restaurant with your lady, you make an excuse to shoot off to the loo to check how the thread is going?

[GQBlues]

BTW, FTR - Fischer beat Karpov in their 1976 'informal' game... I know cause my uncle Eugene told me so.

 

[Boethius]

What do all your wives or other half's think about you lot spending most of your time ranting in here?? Shouldn't you be getting ready for a nice weekend together? Im just wondering maybe if your out at a restaurant with your lady, you make an excuse to shoot off to the loo to check how the thread is going?

Why are you here ranting instead of being with your lady?
 
I'm at work.  I don't post here when my better half is home with me, although I do get insomnia, so when he's in bed, I usually work, and, on breaks, post.

[mendeleyev]

My opinion regarding McCain's silly letter is just that, silly.

+

The biggest difference that I saw when reading Putin's letter versus McCain's letter is that Putin went out of his way to be courteous while still getting his view in front of Americans.

My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this.

whereas the senile senator from Arizona wasted no time in telling Russians that they'd be better off effecting regime change.

President Putin and his associates do not believe in these values. They don’t respect your dignity or accept your authority over them. They punish dissent and imprison opponents. They rig your elections. They control your media.

The truth is....both letters contained truth. But one at least tried to be thoughtful and gracious although most Americans got to the part of exceptionalism and blew their patriotic gaskets, while the other letter was nothing but a provocation by an outside power.

Should Putin go? Yes. In a democratic process.

Should Obama go? Yes. In a democratic process.

We're fine with pointing to rigged elections in one country but hide behind the skirt tails of "phony scandals" upon discovering that the IRS was harassing opposition groups during an election cycle. This smells to me like election tampering on the other side of the pond.

[GQBlues]

...The biggest difference that I saw when reading Putin's letter versus McCain's letter is that Putin went out of his way to be courteous while still getting his view in front of Americans....

It would appear that Max Fisher of The Washington Post agrees with you. IMO, McCain just simply violated Sun Tzu's cardinal rule. As an ex-military man, eg strategist, he should've known better.

Anyhow...

It seems right now our beloved US media is fiercely spinning a desperate   an angle in this Syrian debacle. They are now re-hoisting the Roman (maybe it's Greek) fallen columns and are saying that the events that unfolded with the Syrian crisis is apparently an example of Obama's well-calculated stroke of genius (LOL).

After all, they reason, all Obama was really after from the beginning was to keep Syria from using WMD, AND, ultimately give up what they, and Russia, previously claimed they did not possess (WMD); without firing a single shot...unlike of course, *you-know-who* .

 

So take that Putin.

Now, if they can only show the same initiative and focus their attention as to why the walk-down investigation of the Benghazi affair is dearly taking soooooooooooooooooooo loooooooooooooooooong. If we can just get that behind us, we might all be on time to join the re-coronation of our beloved US Messiah.

[mendeleyev]

An interesting take on why US-Russian relations should be closer:

http://russia-direct.org/content/angst-over-russian-dominated-middle-east

[lordtiberius]

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-libya-benghazi-russian-consulate-attack-20131002,0,6475124.story

Mob attacks Russian Embassy in Tripoli; revenge suspected

By Carol J. Williams

This post has been corrected. Please see the note below for details.

5:04 PM PDT, October 2, 2013



Advertisement

 
 


Gunmen stormed the Russian Embassy in Tripoli, the Libyan capital,  on Wednesday night, scrambling over the walls of the compound, tearing down the Russian flag and opening fire on cars and buildings, Russian and Libyan news agencies reported.

The attack was suspected to be revenge for the killing a day earlier of a Libyan air force pilot by a Russian woman, who the gunmen thought had taken refuge in the diplomatic mission, the ITAR-TASS news agency reported.

"The Wednesday attack may be linked with the incident on Tuesday," in which local media reported that a Russian woman -- some identified her as Ukrainian -- shot and killed Libyan air force officer Mohammed Susi in Tripoli, then attacked the pilot's elderly mother with a knife, ITAR-TASS reported.

The Russian news agency, citing local security sources and the Libyan news agency LANA, said the woman had not been identified, nor was a motive in the attacks known.

“There has been an incident in Tripoli tonight, in which there was shelling and attempts to enter the territory" of the Russian Embassy, Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Aleksandr Lukashevich was quoted as saying by Russia Today.

At least 10 gunmen arrived in two vehicles and opened fire on an embassy car parked outside the compound, then scaled the walls to enter the courtyard, ITAR-TASS reported, citing local witnesses. The intruders tore down the Russian flag from a balcony, then opened fire on the building, the agency said.

No injuries were reported, and the attackers fled as soon as Libyan security forces arrived, the news reports said.

The situation at the compound was said by Voice of Russia radio to be calm, although extensive damage to the main building was reported.

The embassy was attacked in February 2012 by protesters angered by Russia's thwarting of a U.N. Security Council effort to censure Syrian President Bashar Assad for excesses against rebels who have been fighting to oust him since March 2011.

The U.S. mission in Benghazi was attacked by militants Sept. 11, 2012, and U.S. Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens and three other Americans were killed by radical Islamists.

An Italian consulate car came under fire in January in Benghazi, and in April a car bomb that detonated outside the French Embassy in Tripoli wounded a French security officer and a Libyan passerby.
Libya has been wracked by violence and instability since the capture and killing of longtime strongman Moammar Kadafi two years ago.
Russia Today attributed the latest attack on a diplomatic venue to the lawlessness that has prevailed since Kadafi's toppling.

"We've seen in Libya the mob rule of countless militias and death squads," Russia Today quoted activist Sukant Chandan as saying.

"Two years after the victory of the so-called February 17 revolution and the end of the civil war, which resulted in the toppling and assassination of [Kadafi], new Libyan authorities turned out to be unable to establish order despite all attempts," ITAR-TASS said.

Russia had fiercely opposed the U.S.-led campaign to oust Kadafi, a longtime ally of the Kremlin, and warned that toppling the eccentric dictator would lead to anarchy and a power vacuum.

For the record, 9:25 p.m. Oct. 2: A previous version of this post said gunmen stormed the Russian consulate in Benghazi, Libya, instead of the embassy in Tripoli.

Russia cannot flex its muscles beyond its borders

[mendeleyev]

Sigh.

How you came up with that conclusion is baffling. The Libyans attack the US Consulate, target it with hours of firepower, burn it for hours, and kill our Ambassador along with three others.

The USA has yet to do anything except for a tired and dried up old prune of a Secretary of State asking "What differences does it make?"

A year later Libyans climb over the Russian compound walls, spray a little gunfire before running away and your conclusion is that Russia cannot flex its muscles beyond its borders.

Pleeze.

[lordtiberius]

Re: SoS, you forgot botox, the guy never smiles

This was an attack on Russia from Saudi, agree?