Would you consider it sad trying to date a women who speaks no English?

[steveboy]

Care to elaborate on what is the usual Ukrainian mentality?

Oh, we'll give you the benefit of the doubt for being too busy to notice that Ukrainian needs to be capitalized. 

No Im getting tired of this subject now will take me forever! As you noticed I was to busy to capitalise Ukrainian and I don't have six hours to sit and write in detail about Ukrainian mentality in general.
I will try to keep away from that subject in future

[mendeleyev]

I will try to keep away from that subject in future

Don't be a hit and run poster. 

You're the one who introduced the subject...just sayin'.

[Turboguy]

Steve, I think you make a good point and even if I don't totally agree with you for many I think that is good advice.  The advantage of not ruling out women with no English is first that it broadens the pool of available women and second it decreases the competition since many men won't accept a woman with no English. 


As far as women taking advantage of men I doubt that knowing or not knowing English affects that ratio no matter if it is 95% or 25%. 


When I was in the searching stage I didn't care at all and never paid attention to if a girl did or didn't know English.  Of course I ended up marrying a wonderful gal who had great English and has a bigger vocabulary in English than I do.  Perhaps subconsciously it was important to me or perhaps that is why we connected.  I do think there are guys who should not even think about a woman with no English.  I do think if a guy has a lot of patience and the woman is highly motivated and willing to work hard to learn English then language may not be a factor.  I have seen guys be very successful with a woman who knew no English when the started.


As far as Ukraine I agree with you and if someone asked me where to search I would suggest Russia, Moldova or the Stans before Ukraine but guys to still flock to Ukraine and they do manage to bring home their dream girl. 


As far as a mistake here and there with capitalization or English I always thought this was a forum for discussing FSU women not proper English and care more about what someone has to say than how perfectly they say it.  You have a lot of expertise to share and I am glad you are here sharing it.

[Vinnvinny]

As far as a mistake here and there with capitalization or English I always thought this was a forum for discussing FSU women not proper English and care more about what someone has to say than how perfectly they say it.  You have a lot of expertise to share and I am glad you are here sharing it.

i completelly agree my coments earlyer were in jeyst bcz he suguested I gow bak to scule   !?

[ML]

i completelly agree my coments earlyer were in jeyst bcz he suguested I gow bak to scule   !?

Well, your German is terrible, so I suggest you go to another school.

[steveboy]

Don't be a hit and run poster. 

You're the one who introduced the subject...just sayin'.

I will answer on the Ukrainian mentality, there is a lot to say and I want to get it correct so you understand, I have a good Russian friend speaks PERFECT English and perfect grammar, he has exactly the same views . I will give a full statement soon

[tfcrew]

Don't be a... hit and run poster.

Before that, they were called trolls.

[facetrock]

This thread fascinates me. Why on earth would a commercial member come here to argue with other members. Its like committing internet suicide. Don't they realize people who might be thinking of using their services might get turned off by reading threads like this. Amazing.

[Brianinaz]

Maybe this is a dumb question? But why do so many stupid men travel to Ukraine to meet women who do not speak a word of English? What is the point of this absurdity ?
Firstly your wasting time and money and leaving yourself completely open to abuse by ALL the translation firms and translators in Ukraine, they are all crooks!
Secondly 95% of the women in Ukraine will take as much advantage of you as possible, will use every possible means to extract more hard earned cash from your wallet.
Ok maybe you will be one of the VERY lucky ones and find a genuine women, but then do you really need all the trouble of trying to communicate with her via translators and even if you do, how can you have a normal relationship with a women who speaks not a word of English?
How can you communicate on a proper level? And what will you do at night in bed? have a translator under the bed?
It must be some form of desperation?
Russia and Ukraine are full of women who speak perfectly good English so why do guys opt for the stupid option of trying to date a women who can just about say hello?

I don't get how the lady's English level relates to the man's level of "desperation". Are you trying to make the case that "desperate" guys preferentially seek out non English speaking women and only the non "desperate" seek out ladies with English proficiency? That's some pretty funny logic you're using dude.
My wife spoke very little English when we met. As a successful physician I never considered myself stupid nor desperate. My wife is from Ukraine and shortly after we met she began taking English lessons which she insisted on paying for. So, personally I find your comments rather offensive.
The translator I used put an ad in the local paper for me, facilitated meetings, and provided translation services for me. He bowed out at his suggestion as translator after the forth or fifth day after my wife and I met feeling it was better for us to stumble along a bit and communicate by ourselves. He was correct. We just celebrated our fifth anniversary. He was as honest a person as I've ever done business with and after I was married we continue as friends.
My personal experience before I met my wife was many (not all but many) Ukrainians were hospitable and would help you out if they could and you needed it. Of course I ran across a few that saw me as nothing other than a cash machine but honestly I found this less frequently in Ukraine than in Russia (no offense to the Russian ladies or the spouses of members here). That was just my limited sample size experience.
As facetrock noted above why a commercial member would come here with the statements and attitude you have is beyond me. Not a good business model my friend IMHO. Good luck to you!

[Muzh]

I don't get how the lady's English level relates to the man's level of "desperation". Are you trying to make the case that "desperate" guys preferentially seek out non English speaking women and only the non "desperate" seek out ladies with English proficiency? That's some pretty funny logic you're using dude.
My wife spoke very little English when we met. As a successful physician I never considered myself stupid nor desperate. My wife is from Ukraine and shortly after we met she began taking English lessons which she insisted on paying for. So, personally I find your comments rather offensive.
The translator I used put an ad in the local paper for me, facilitated meetings, and provided translation services for me. He bowed out at his suggestion as translator after the forth or fifth day after my wife and I met feeling it was better for us to stumble along a bit and communicate by ourselves. He was correct. We just celebrated our fifth anniversary. He was as honest a person as I've ever done business with and after I was married we continue as friends.
My personal experience before I met my wife was many (not all but many) Ukrainians were hospitable and would help you out if they could and you needed it. Of course I ran across a few that saw me as nothing other than a cash machine but honestly I found this less frequently in Ukraine than in Russia (no offense to the Russian ladies or the spouses of members here). That was just my limited sample size experience.
As facetrock noted above why a commercial member would come here with the statements and attitude you have is beyond me. Not a good business model my friend IMHO. Good luck to you!

Hey Brian, don't take offense. The OP definitely needs a course or two of Business Tactics but I don't think he was zeroing on all men.
 
As TG mentioned above, you can expand your pool of available women and of course, there are women who will put a lot of effort in learning the language of the intended.
 
However, there are some out there that they would prefer it if the ladies have very limited knowledge of English and would like to keep it that way once they get here.

[Turboguy]

[size=78%] [/size]
However, there are some out there that they would prefer it if the ladies have very limited knowledge of English and would like to keep it that way once they get here.

There are times in many marriages when a woman who couldn't say an intelligible word to you would be a real blessing.  Some of my past history would make me wonder why women who are deaf and dumb aren't at the top of many men's list of potential wives. [/size][size=78%] [/size]

[Faux Pas]

However, there are some out there that they would prefer it if the ladies have very limited knowledge of English and would like to keep it that way once they get here.

I think this is truer than many here might want to admit. Before I got married but had visited a couple of my very close friends had mentioned just that, they would love a woman they didn't have to talk to. I thought it was very revealing about them. I never looked at either of them the same since. Yes alcohol was involved but the fact these guys had multiple marriages and divorces, I thought it was telling. FWIW

[Stirlitz]

Maybe this is a dumb question? But why do so many stupid men travel to Ukraine to meet women who do not speak a word of English? What is the point of this absurdity ?
Firstly your wasting time and money and leaving yourself completely open to abuse by ALL the translation firms and translators in Ukraine, they are all crooks!
Secondly 95% of the women in Ukraine will take as much advantage of you as possible, will use every possible means to extract more hard earned cash from your wallet.
Ok maybe you will be one of the VERY lucky ones and find a genuine women, but then do you really need all the trouble of trying to communicate with her via
translators and even if you do, how can you have a normal relationship with a women who speaks not a word of English?

How can you communicate on a proper level? And what will you do at night in bed? have a translator under the bed?
It must be some form of desperation?
Russia and Ukraine are full of women who speak perfectly good English so why do guys opt for the stupid option of trying to date a women who can just about say hello?

Very interesting. I did not realize I was a crook. What’s next? Shall I surrender to the police or what? But I am not sure what to tell them. It would be interesting to learn. I cannot just tell them I am a crook, can I? This is obviously not enough.
As for the 95%, it is also very interesting to learn the source of the figure. Who interviewed the women, which authority performed the survey, how they estimated women’s sincerety (or lack thereof), etc. I may be too boring but my physics background does not let me believe anything which is just said by one person and not confirmed by facts.

Before that, they were called trolls.

Why not call a spade a spade. Unless there is an answer to my previous comment.

[steveboy]

This thread fascinates me. Why on earth would a commercial member come here to argue with other members. Its like committing internet suicide. Don't they realize people who might be thinking of using their services might get turned off by reading threads like this. Amazing.

Im not sure what you mean? Why would I be committing Internet suicide? Im just pointing out the truth on many matters. As for any reference to my own sites , this is a different matter after Cupid I have more women registering each week than any other site on the net catering for Eastern European women, with the best scammer control in the industry! Every man makes his own choices in life If I was single I would still stay well away from Ukraine its just asking for trouble. Guys who sign up to my site I would still advise to stay away from Ukraine, of course there will be a few good women from Ukraine but not worth the trouble searching for when there are easier options. Its like if I owned a supermarket would it be a problem if I told customers buying cigarettes was bad for their health? I think not.

[mendeleyev]

Steve, instead of bashing a wonderful country populated with many wonderful people, why not help your clients with advice rather than make sweeping statements.

I realize that you think that I am out to get you, but I'm not. For starters, I think that it would be helpful if you detailed how your scammer control works.

- What controls do you have in place?

- How did you come to those controls?

- Based on your filters, how can a potential member know that he has a degree of safety with the ladies on your site?

[cc3]

I have a pretty good idea of exactly what goes on in the Ukrainian marriage agency side of things especially to the majority of poor guys who make a trip to Lugansk which Im sure must be the worst city for any guy to visit in search of a Ukrainian wife.

Steveboy, following your unsubstantiated and prejudiced advice, I would have never met my fiancee (the best woman I have ever known, globally) in Luhans'k, nor would have another forum friend met his fiancee there. You are a flawed and hyper-critical individual, to condemn an entire nation and its 45,000,000 citizens with your irrational and nonsensical rants.

[lonedrake]

I did not realize I was a crook

 Well now you know Plus everyone you translate for is stupid And there are only a few good women in all of Ukraine.....but even those are not worth the trouble

For starters, I think that it would be helpful if you detailed how your scammer control works.

- What controls do you have in place?

- How did you come to those controls?

- Based on your filters, how can a potential member know that he has a degree of safety with the ladies on your site?

 One question per post! He tires easily!
 

[Fishingguy]

Well fundamentally I do agree with Steveboy with dating someone who does not know English at all.

Even among two English speaking love birds communications is one of the most important facets of a relationship. Just conceptually it'll just be so hard if you are both using a translator to get your thoughts and emotions across. I don't think it is impossible but I think it is really really hard. You are just fooling yourself because she is so beautiful and you really want to make it work.

I really do think you are just want to make it work and fool yourself. Just my two cents.

And my other two cents with Ukrainian women - most of the ones I've met are down to earth and great.  I've only met two who are a little snotty.  High maintenance and snotty but very pretty.

Funny story one of the "snotty" ones message me that her girlfriend left her terrible boyfriend and needs some help and wonders if I could visit her in San Francisco to offer help. I met her friend and I am driving a Benz.  When I met her friend to take her out for dinner she remarks, "nice car but too bad it's an older model." It was like 3 years old.

When we get out I head over to open her door and of course I was going to offer my hand but she puts her hands out first..waiting - for a second there I'm thinking this is like a scene from a movie where the princess awaits her butler to help her out of the car.  Princess attitude but not a real princess - unless I found Anastasia!

I thought it was hilarious and after dinner I realized why the poor dude told her to get lost. She thought his $65K salary was too poor and she wanted more of the finer things in life.

But the other Ukrainian women I met were awesome, beautiful and I still wish I knew where one or two was now...

[CaptB]

I agree that there are many downsides to meeting RW's who do not speak English. My wife's educational credentials were evaluated by a company, here in the states, that evaluates foreign education. Her evaluation stated that she had the equivalent of a Masters in English Language & Literature and a BA in Russian Language & literature. Yes life was easier meeting an RW who can communicate in English......no doubt about it.


With all the downsides.......there is an upside....also....in meeting a non-English speaking RW. I was in Tver, Russia....in the early 2000's.....using Lifetime Partners agency. One owner and several employees were of the opinion that once you made a connection....with some degree of commitment with an RW
.....it would be more beneficial to spend time "alone"....struggling with communication "without" your interpreter. Yes.....most of the couples still met with there interpreter....once or twice a day. But the struggle (communicating) seemed to bring the couples who were dedicated....closer. The RW's who were committed to there AM.....went on to learn English at the free classes offered by LTP. Many....also took university and private lessons. A large percent of the couples were eventually married.....and still are.


In my case.....my RW was not committed enough. She did not have patience for communication without our interpreter. She attended 2 or three classes (free at LTP).....then stopped. She said she would be serious about learning English....AFTER.....coming to the US. If your RW does not study English after commitment to your relationship....this would be a bib red flag...IMHO. If you had visited the LTP office back then.....it was easy to pick-out the serious coupling.....just by a minute or two of observation. Learning to communicate...sans interpreter....was'nt a chore with them....it helped to build....closeness.


Boy.....if folks these days are only considering "English speakers"....they may (are) passing over a lot of gems. That leaves the majority of RW left.....for the guys not afraid of a little work.




Capt B




A Yooper in Moscovia     

[chip]

Here are three cents from a newbie here, but not a newbie in this area. I have interacted with many cultures and languages in my travels. I have had 3 long distance LTRs with ESL girls. (Czech, Turkish, Swedish). I married the Swede. All three spoke English very well. Language IS very important. However, there is a case to be made for giving it a shot with a girl who speaks little English. If you make a connection using email and a translator, you can really get to know each other well. But you will need to get way past the niceties and really dig deep. A few months of this and you will both know if there is a great chance for it working in real life. When you meet, there will be problems and awkwardness but if the foundation is there, you will overcome those.

Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic, but there might be a soul mate out there who doesn't speak English. I would certainy prefer fluent English, but I would also prefer light blue eyes. For me, language is not a deal-breaker. But this approach will not work well unless you are going through an agency and/or using a translator. And I know there are huge biases here against that approach. And feel free to discount my opinion since I have not actually seen it through to a meeting yet.

[chip]

There is one attitude here I'd like to rebut: "If she is serious about finding a husband abroad, why doesn't she learn English?" They are not all expecting to marry an English-speaker. I talked to one girl who was actually very hesitant about the US. She would really prefer Europe so she feels closer to home. English-speakers are not the only men looking in the FSU for wives. We shouldn't project our own assumptions on them and judging them harshly for not being serious. You can actually see this as a positive indication of their attitude. They are looking for a man first, not a country. I worry very much about the opposite approach, don't you? And once they find a man who is willing to accept them where they are, they will put all their energy into learning his language. I think that's very endearing. 

[die_cast]

I talked to one girl who was actually very hesitant about the US. She would really prefer Europe so she feels closer to home. English-speakers are not the only men looking in the FSU for wives.

Is she learning any another foreign language or just sitting and waiting for a prince? 
Most European men do speak English, not just their native languages. It's not wise to wait when someone show up to make you be willing put all your energy into learning his language.

[chip]

Is she learning any another foreign language or just sitting and waiting for a prince? 
Most European men do speak English, not just their native languages. It's not wise to wait when someone show up to make you be willing put all your energy into learning his language.

I think this is an example of an alarming, egocentric attitude. You can't really be serious that a girl will spend all that money and time to learn English well just to be able to speak to a European man who may have a basic understanding of English. And then what? They are not going to continue their relationship in English. She will need to learn his language. In your scenario, English is simply a transition language. That sounds silly to me, not wise.

I could make exactly the same argument in reverse. If a man were serious about marrying a girl from the FSU, he would learn Russian well enough to converse with her, even if English will eventually be their common language. How many of us will go to that much effort before we are married?

[die_cast]

They are not going to continue their relationship in English. She will need to learn his language.

Yes, as many other women do.
Girls are spending not one year in this search as usual, first advice any woman would give a newbie: if you don't speak any foreing languge - start learning any right now, better if it would be English. Because you need to communicate with men, many men and you should understand them.

If a man were serious about marrying a girl from the FSU, he would learn Russian well enough to converse with her, even if English will eventually be their common language.

No, he would not. Let's face it - learning Russian is a pain in the ass. You should spend several years in FSU to learn it close to 7 y.o.-child level.
Girls can learn good English after 6 months. Don't fool yourself, it's not that hard.

[GQBlues]

There is one attitude here I'd like to rebut: "If she is serious about finding a husband abroad, why doesn't she learn English?" They are not all expecting to marry an English-speaker. I talked to one girl who was actually very hesitant about the US. She would really prefer Europe so she feels closer to home. English-speakers are not the only men looking in the FSU for wives. We shouldn't project our own assumptions on them and judging them harshly for not being serious. You can actually see this as a positive indication of their attitude. They are looking for a man first, not a country. I worry very much about the opposite approach, don't you? And once they find a man who is willing to accept them where they are, they will put all their energy into learning his language. I think that's very endearing.

See bold wordings for contradiction.

In the event you missed it, die-cast is a RW. I doubt very much that she's bearing an alarming, ego-centric attitude by extending an advice to you. She's speaking from her own personal experience and was simply expressing things to you from a woman's point of view.