Divorce finally final after 3 years and 3 different lawyers for her.

[Boethius]

Well, with Ukrainians around, I certainly wouldn't leave Arnold unattended for very long... 

Perhaps.  But here it all is.  Arnold, love, interfering inlaws, and even language differences.

[Ade]

  I suspect her mother, seeing her daughter unhappy, blamed Greg for that unhappiness.  Unfair?  Yes.

Or perhaps not.

Also, it's difficult to imagine a man agreeing to pay for 18 flights for a MIL he detested so much and thought was destroying his marriage...

[Misha]

She was 19, according to Greg, and had never even held a boy's hand.

This in itself would hint to (a) parent(s) that were (very) controlling 

[calmissile]

This in itself would hint to (a) parent(s) that were (very) controlling 

+1 Agree

[Boethius]

This in itself would hint to (a) parent(s) that were (very) controlling 

No it doesn't.  Best student in the class.  Village teacher's daughter.  What Ukrainian village boy will be interested in her?

[Ade]

You are truly and idiot and belong on the ignore list in spite of your fan, Bo!  Men in love make many sacrifices for the woman they love until it is beyond common sense.  Since you have none of these features, I suggest you spend your time with your newborn instead of trolling on the fourm.

Perhaps you should be less of a dumbarse, take your own advice and put me on ignore chubs?

[Muzh]

It is not really secret and was not limited to the Soviets Some parents are quite adept at making their children dependant on them and you do have a lot of families (there and here) that have their own special issues. The trick is to avoid them and to get to know the family you plan on marrying into long before the vows. However, here too, men will certainly write off all the signs of potential trouble down the road as "cultural" and thus ignore their intuition and good sense.

Try the term enmeshed mother

[Muzh]

Now, WRT MIL's visiting, here's the thing.  I don't believe that a woman who is truly and madly in love with her husband would be affected by what her mother said.  She would either argue, or ignore it.  It's easy to blame outside factors when perhaps those influences just hastened the inevitable.

I disagree.

[Faux Pas]

Try the term enmeshed mother

Maybe Embedded 

[Misha]

No it doesn't.  Best student in the class.  Village teacher's daughter.  What Ukrainian village boy will be interested in her?

Let's see, by 19, the "best student in class" should have gone off to university, spent at least a year or two there as there aren't many universities in villages. There, I am sure there would have been plenty of boys interested in her, and her having a teacher in a village would under normal circumstances have stopped neither the boys or her    However, hypothetically, if she did not go to university because of her mother or still acted as if her mother was there even when she was away, that too would hint towards less than a healthy mother-daughter relationship...

[Misha]

Try the term enmeshed mother

Interesting piece. It does ressemble my wife's cousin's relationship with her aunt. She is my wife's age, and to the best of my wife's knowledge, the cousin has never had a relationship, largely due to the overbearing nature of the aunt who seems to have stifled her daughter's social development...

[Boethius]

Let's see, by 19, the "best student in class" should have gone off to university, spent at least a year or two there as there aren't many universities in villages. There, I am sure there would have been plenty of boys interested in her, and her having a teacher in a village would under normal circumstances have stopped neither the boys or her    However, hypothetically, if she did not go to university because of her mother or still acted as if her mother was there even when she was away, that too would hint towards less than a healthy mother-daughter relationship...

Not necessarily.  If she was poor, and didn't dress well, she would not have garnered much attention.  Not every Ukrainian girl has the means, or the desire, to go to clubs or parties.  I can think of many beautiful Ukrainian girls who had no suitors, and their mothers were worried about it.


Now, would a controlling mother allow her teen aged daughter to communicate with a considerably older man, far older than her, with a view to marrying and moving abroad?  That doesn't make sense.

[Boethius]

I disagree.

Why?

[Muzh]

Why?

She will NOT ignore her mother. You can count on that.
 
Now, that she will side with her mother or hubby, regardless if she is madly in love with her hubby depends on her (the wife.) What's her level of insecurity?
 
Between you and me, the mother that intrudes, in my book, has not done a good job. A good mother will trust she gave her children the best teachings and hope they will apply those. Of course, she will be there if and when needed. BUT not  before.

[Misha]

I can think of many beautiful Ukrainian girls who had no suitors, and their mothers were worried about it.

Perhaps they did not have suitors, but I somehow doubt that they had not even held a man's hand  Beautiful women, even if they don't go to nightclubs and wear designer clothing, still are more than capable of getting male attention when they are 19 and they really set their minds to it...

[Boethius]

Not necessarily so.  I have a relative in Kyiv who was a stunning beauty.  She had no boyfriend all through school.  She was a good student, shy and closed, and did not frequent clubs or dances.  Her mother was concerned, as she was 19 and reaching the end of her shelf life in her mother's eyes.  So, her mother forced her to go to dances at her university.


Nevertheless, that still leaves open the question of why such a controlling mother would allow her 19 year old daughter to correspond with, and meet with, a 32 year old foreigner, given she would be moving abroad.  On the flip side, would a girl so tied to her mother's umbilical cord make such a bold move?  I don't buy it.

[Misha]

Nevertheless, that still leaves open the question of why such a controlling mother would allow her 19 year old daughter to correspond with, and meet with, a 32 year old foreigner, given she would be moving abroad.  On the flip side, would a girl so tied to her mother's umbilical cord make such a bold move?  I don't buy it.

Some controlling mothers look out for their best interests and if it is in their interest that their daughter marry a foreigner, then some such mothers will push their daughters to marry and move abroad even if they are shy and dependant on them. I am not saying this is what happened here, but such things can happen.

[Ade]

Some controlling mothers look out for their best interests and if it is in their interest that their daughter marry a foreigner, then some such mothers will push their daughters to marry and move abroad even if they are shy and dependant on them. I am not saying this is what happened here, but such things can happen.

If that was the case here it would be damn weird to undermine the golden goose. Not unless she realized that marrying a hick in Hicksville wasn't such a step up after all.

[Daveman]

The only certainties we have are:


1) That situation is damn weird.
2) It was even damn weirder than damn weird.
3) They're better off apart, regardless of how weird it was.
4) The MIL should have been dragged out and shot on the spot.   

[mies]

I disagree.  The tickets was not taking food out of their mouths.  I see no requirement to thank him for it.   


Did the MIL demand the right to have her travel expenses paid?  We don't know that, so that is a leap. 


I don't think her wanting her mother around was because of an umbilical cord.

If Greg's wife worked, with two small children, then it is safe to assume that MIL was a live-in nanny and a cook and a made. And paying for her meals and return tickets was still cheaper than paying for live-in nanny-cook-made, and that she was far more reliable as a nanny than any nanny they could possibly find locally.

I think the view on "thank you" differs. Some men demand it, my husband asks me "please, stop thanking me, you really don't need to do this." I agree that it is strange to thank a husband for something possibly bought with your own money, or something bought with family budget to which both people contributed.

[mies]

Well, we'll just agree to disagree there.  Has nothing to do with mouths and food.  And of course, there is no requirement for appreciation, just as there is no requirement to purchase plane tickets. 



True, she may not have demanded it. 


If she wanted her mother to live with them, then yes, she has a condition known as Umblicordis Noncuttum.

Dave, in traditional cultures grandmothers traditionally take care of young grandchildren. Many women from traditional cultures with young children bring their mothers to help them with pregnancy and children. But you aren't a woman, and you aren't from a "traditional culture," so you can't know that.

I have three female friends from India and one from Italy, from quite traditional family. All of them have invited their mothers to live with them for 4-6 months when they were due to deliver a baby, and then mothers came for prolonged periods of time during the first years after baby was born. After their mothers left, their MILs arrived, so basically for the first 1-2 years after birth of a baby the young family always had their MIL (either on wife's or husband's side) live together with them. All of these women worked and had full-time employed husbands. They all told me that having mothers (or MILs) with them was a tremendous help.

[mies]

Or perhaps not.

Also, it's difficult to imagine a man agreeing to pay for 18 flights for a MIL he detested so much and thought was destroying his marriage...

perhaps back then he balanced his savings from MIL's presence with the cost of tickets, and on that balance sheet the price of the tickets didn't look too bad.

[GregfromGa]

She worked.  I recall Greg posting she even worked with two babies at home.  So, she also contributed to purchasing those tickets.


The "I" part bothers me.  In a marriage, it is "our" money.

Just when I think you might actually be reading and comprehending what I right Boe you got and get off track yet again.  I never said I myself paid for all the tickets sweetheart and I was referring to my MIL never saying "thank you" for anything. the trip to Greece, Bahamas,Vegas,New York,Yalta,Orlando or any other place she might have went with us. Of course my wife never could say thank you either but we wont get into that. As far as hooterville is concerned well our city is bigger than Valky. There are at least a dozen Russian/Ukrainians within 45 minutes of here. I introduced her to some and of course there were members here that had Russian speaking wives that I tried to help her forge a friendship. She wasn't interested. Oh she would speak to them for an hour on the phone then hang up and never mention them again. The poor girl had zero friends in Ukraine. In all my trips over prior to our marriage I never met one, no one was mentioned. Not one attended our wedding because there were none. None there, none here. Do you see the pattern here? Who knew? I didn't. She never ever went 2 days in a row without calling her mother. I venture to say 3 days would've been the longest in our marriage. I didn't mind. I just hope my daughter now doesn't rely on her mom so much. This subject is a dead horse. Wishing now I would've just PM'ed the few here that actually matter to me instead of coming here. You idiots and you know who you are offer nothing to this. Would hope the mods would just delete the thread. Everything is a pissing contest with some here.

[GregfromGa]

perhaps back then he balanced his savings from MIL's presence with the cost of tickets, and on that balance sheet the price of the tickets didn't look too bad.

What the fuck are you talking about here?

[mies]

What the fuck are you talking about here?

Is this how you usually speak to women? Did you speak to your ex-wife in the same manner?