First trip

[Mtnmansummit]

I am getting ready to set a date to travel to Kiev to meet six women for the first time. We have corresponded extensively and have exchanged in-depth questions. I am 56 and the women I have been writing are 37 to 45. One has a 16 teen year old daughter the others either do not have children or their children do not live with them.  This is my first trip to Ukraine. Where do I go to for hotel reservations and ground transportation?  Do you suggest a tour to Kiev? Using them for the strategic work and going to the events, incase there is no chemistry with any of the ladies I am writing? I doubt any of the ladies I am writing is mindless and believes she is the only person I am writing. I want to be polite and show respect. Please give me your advice, I am a big boy and I can handle criticism. .

[Jack]

Mtnman, I think you will have a wonderful trip. You have worked hard to find 6 ladies whom you feel good about and you think they fell good about you. This is the formula for success.

Now where are these ladies from? How much time will you have on your trip? With this information it's possiable to offer a little more advice and help as to how to go about meeting these ladies in the most effecient manner.

[Albert]

Do NOT plan to stay at a hotel.  You want to rent an apartment.  Several advantages of apartment over hotel.

1) It will be less expensive than hotel.

2) Women will  not feel comfortable meeting you in hotel room, but women of the age you are meeting will have no qualms about coming to your apartment.  Hotels sometimes treat women visitors with little respect.

3) With an apartment, food can be prepared at home.  This will give women a chance to demonstrate their housewife skills to you.  Also, with an apartment, you will have a place to have wine, cheese, fruits, play some soft music and do some dancing.  100 times better than spending time in nightclubs, etc., with women of the age you are meeting.

4) Try for a 2 bedroom (3 room apartment).  In FSU they just count rooms (but they don't count kitchen and bathroom), rather than bedrooms since with extended families living in same unit, living rooms are used as bedrooms also.  With 2 bedrooms, you can offer the ladies a place to stay without inferring that they will have to share a bed with you.  You can make it work with a 1 bedroom (two room) unit since sofas in living room usually make into a bed.  But with full 2 bedrooms, you and the ladies have something much more private.  Many of the ladies will share your bed the first, second or third night, but they will feel much more comfortable if it is their decision rather than a 'forced' setup.  Be sure to tell them that you are renting a three room apartment . . .  they will perk up quite a bit.

But DO NOT let any of the ladies arrange this apartment for you.  If this happens, they can screw up your time with the other ladies as they may have keys, they may have spies who live in the apartment house who will report your commings and goings, etc., they may know the owner and will bad mouth you if things don't work out between you (even try to get you evicted, etc.)  Best to even try for an apartment house that does not have babushkas as 'guards' at the entrance.  Most of the time these babushkas will keep their mouth shut to your gals about you bringing other gals to the apartment (particularly if you bring them some fruits, candy, etc.) but just avoid this situation if possible.

[Mtnmansummit]

Can you suggest appartments or do you recomend a service or website?

[Admin]

Can you suggest appartments or do you recomend a service or website?

Try this website: http://www.brama.com/news/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?catagory=RealEstUkr

- Dan

[Elen]

Wonder what should woman feel knowing she is number 6( or more) in a row:??

[Bruno]

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I doubt any of the ladies I am writing is mindless and believes she is the only person I am writing. I want to be polite and show respect.

[line]

Wonder what should woman feel knowing she is number 6( or more) in a row:??

[line]

The problem is not be a number in a row... and it is more a group.... if you have not inform clearly the woman from the beginning that you write to several other, be ready for know some problem... and loose all of them ( maybe the scammer can stay )...

When i have begin write to Galina, i have say that i was writing to other... but with the time, i have narrow my choice to two ladies... but all two have know that a other woman was on the list... until you are not engaged and you have never use the word "love"... you have only try to build a friendship... it is nothing bad to see several woman to try find the right one... but in all case, honesty from the beginning can spare a lot of problem for later...

[Stirlitz]

Wonder what should woman feel knowing she is number 6( or more) in a row:??

 If you mean sex, I could understand you. But I think the guy is only going to see them for the first time, so what's wrong? Do you feel bad when a guy in the street who has been looking at a,l women who pass by looks at you?

[user=147]Mtnmansummit[/user], from Elen's comment you now see that none of them should have an idea she is not the only one.

[Bruno]

Igor, we don't know what have write Mt-it to these woman... but imagine the reverse situation...

You write several month with a woman, you express your feeling for her and you make a trip to meet her... once at place, the woman say you that you are the number 6... she have other guys to meet before... what will be you reaction ? Certainly go away... What do you thing ? Certainly, you go supose she is a "slut"...

Don't make to other what you don't like that other make to you...  Mt-it suppose that they know he is writing to other woman, he is ready to meet other woman... he suppose but he have say nothing...

[Stirlitz]

You write several month with a woman, you express your feeling for her and you make a trip to meet her... once at place, the woman say you that you are the number 6... she have other guys to meet before... what will be you reaction ? Certainly go away... What do you thing ? Certainly, you go supose she is a "slut"...

 No. She is a sensible woman. First, I would not fall in love with a photo, it's utterly silly and always leads to frustration. Second, I would be happy to take her breath away and forget all other guys. And, as I pointed out, don't say anything about who you met, it is as silly in my view.

[Elen]

No I meant not only sex (but that was as well. Actually I hardly can immagine sex with a stranger I knew by chatting some monthes in the Net and see the first time in my life:?)  I meant how was it to feel yourself at "bride's market"?  Never mind whatever you are going to say to me but I can't shake out feeling it's some kind of "market" (I'm not about money only but about all that stuff in general)

 

Do you feel bad when a guy in the street who has been looking at a,l women who pass by looks at you?

No I don't feel bad when guy looks at me at steet I feel bad when a man who is going next to me shooting glances at another women at streets:P[/color][/font]

[Bruno]

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No. She is a sensible woman. First, I would not fall in love with a photo, it's utterly silly and always leads to frustration. Second, I would be happy to take her breath away and forget all other guys. And, as I pointed out, don't say anything about who you met, it is as silly in my view.

[line]

Who speak to fall in love with a photo... i speak about felling that you can have for someone with who you correspond from several month... it will be silly to make a trip for meet someone for who you feel nothing...

Not everybody have a lot of money for make several trip to "FSU" each year and test a lot of woman... the exchange of letter allow us to know each other better, like when you have a usual dialogue... the meeting is only need for confirm this and see if the "alchimy" is good...

And about sex, it is a test and on the two side... For some, RW are easy girls but in reality, when you have sex with her during the meeting, they test you... Western man have a bad reputation about sex in FSU, several woman think that we are all impotant... result of our non healthy method of life, from stress, ... they test us for see if we are able to build a family, to have and make children... RW think about sex more deeply that western man who see only the physical pleasure.

[Elen]

At your place, Western males, I wouldn't be such worry about your "reputaion" here. There is little wich could dissapoint female who used to deal with russians males:D We don;t doubt in yours abilities at all (until you are much much older than we)

RW think about sex more deeply that western man who see only the physical pleasure.

[/font] Yes and that's why be ready get nothing in bed here.

Athough...:? contingent of date's agencies is too "special" and not typical So all is possible. God help you all:D

[Bruno]

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We don;t doubt in yours abilities at all (until you are much much older than we)



[line]


Helena, several man are much older that the RW... and maybe all man are older that the RW... a other threat speak about this at :

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/view_topic.php?id=152&forum_id=3

Maybe you can give your meaning !!!

[Elen]

I did read that site on Russian :D:D

And you are lucky not understanding Russian otherwise you would cirtainly have  problems in bed after reading those posts.

If seriuosly "much much older" for me personal is more than 10 years.

Also I have a daughter 18 yeas old who spends a lot time in Net. And she fed up:X with western males about 40 years old (wich is close to her father's ages). who constanly knocked in her ISQ . The words she describes such Kasanovas with are no-translated Russian folklore

Can't understand what those pervents count at:?

 

[Mtnmansummit]

Thank you for your reply and suggested web site. When I apply for a VISA do I list the apartment owner as the contact and reference? As I understand the VISA process for Ukraine I am being sponsored by a Ukraine citizen, correct?

[Jack]

Mtnmansummit, this could be a bit of a touchy subject. You had best check with the flat owner first and see if they want you to list them as your local contact.

Many flat owners prefer to stay under the radar so to say. They do not care for Ukraine officials to know they are renting out their flat or they might get an un-wanted knock at their door from the tax police.

[Elen]

Many flat owners prefer to stay under the radar so to say. They do not care for Ukraine officials to know they are renting out their flat or they might get an un-wanted knock at their door from the tax police.

 What?? Is'not there such thing like registration for foriegns in local police in Ukraine? (in that case the flat owners should show up themselvs "for radar")

Just curiouse, because in Russia (in Moscow at least) the first police patrol may stop you and ask your registration.

[Admin]

Many flat owners prefer to stay under the radar so to say. They do not care for Ukraine officials to know they are renting out their flat or they might get an un-wanted knock at their door from the tax police.

What?? Is'not there such thing like registration for foriegns in local police in Ukraine? (in that case the flat owners should show up themselvs "for radar")

Just curiouse, because in Russia (in Moscow at least)the first police patrol may stop you and ask your registration.
[/quote]

No, OVIR registration requirements for foreigners were eliminated in Ukraine a couple of years ago. Now, the only time a foreigner must register with OVIR is if he/she stays in-country longer than 6 months.

The other factor is that many apartment owners choose not to register their apartments with ZHEC. The problem is, if they register with ZHEC, they must meet minimum standards for rental property - and most importantly, they are expected to show some rental income and pay taxes against it.

I hope this clarifies things.

- Dan

[Mtnmansummit]

Just curiouse, because in Russia (in Moscow at least) the first police patrol may stop you and ask your registration.
[/quote]

Hello Ellen; I do not understand, can I expect to be stopped, in Ukraine and Russia? Is this because I stand out as a tourist? I have read that American men stand out because we do not have a good sence for fasion.

[Albert]

On your visa application, you can list any person living in Ukraine as your contact.  So far  the Ukrainian authorities have never contacted the listed person to verifiy anything.  However, at passport control, they do ask me the address and phone number of the person listed, so keep that info handy and with your passport.

In view of the above, you could list one of the women you are going to meet, you could list an apartment owner if you have such a contact, or anyone else.  What I usually do is list one of the business persons I am going to visit.  Sometimes, I list one of the persons who help us guys find apartments, etc.  In this latter category, you could list some of the Ukrainian people who post here such as Stirlitz, Rostic, etc.

As Dan has stated, visa registration is no longer required in Ukraine.  This is completely different than the silly situation in Russia.  If stopped in Ukraine, they will just be looking to see if you have an entry visa, not whether it has been registered.  Again completely different in Russia where they will try to catch you with an unregistered visa so they can 'fine' you on the spot.  What this really means is the politzi will get some grocery money for a few days worth of food. 

This visa registration hassle is a good reason for just concentrating on going to Ukraine rather than Russia.  Another reason for Ukraine over Russia is Russian visa is only good for one month.  Very difficult to get a longer term visa for Russia.  Almost anyone can get 6 month Ukrainian visa, and many of us have 3-5 year multi entry Ukrainian visas.  Having a longer term and multi entry visa makes planning for trips and air ticket purchases much, much more pleasant since no tight, time line coordination between visa dates and flight dates needed.

Also, note carefully the responses by Elen.  This gives you a good insight into the mindset of the women you will meet.  If a meeting falls through with any single woman, they will simply get on the bus, go back home or to visit friends, and carry on their life as normal.  You, conversely, will be left with your finger up your butt . . . that is if you have been so stupid as to go on a WOVO trip.  But the women will never understand this, or actually they could care less to try to see the man's viewpoint.  What this means is that you CANNOT be honest with these women.  That is not the ideal way to start out a relationship. but the irrational viewpoint of the women dictate this action.

[Elen]

Everybody in Russia (especially in Moscow) has his right to be stopped out. All people are equal:D:D

All depend on how your face looks for milician patrol. They have their own representation (which common people have no idea about ) how "illegial immigrants" and "terrorists" supposed to look like.

One is undoubt - never go outside without documents (with all needed marks). ( Especialy if you look like a man from our South republic.)

[Jack]

Elen, in Russia, we (foreigners) still have to go thru the ordeal in registering our visa's and passport. In Russia we must do so with-in 72 hours of arrival into the country, not counting Saturday and Sunday's. If I arrive into Moscow at 4pm on Friday I have until 4pm Wednesday to register. 
 
In Ukraine this is no longer required and as in Russia, all people have the right to be stopped and all people are also supposively equal.
 
Albert as a side note I agree with most of your thoughts and post's in this thread as well.

[Bruno]

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This visa registration hassle is a good reason for just concentrating on going to Ukraine rather than Russia.  Another reason for Ukraine over Russia is Russian visa is only good for one month.  Very difficult to get a longer term visa for Russia. 
[line]


For a little amount of money, you can pay in Russia for a special "authorization" ... these allow you to stay one year in Russia... a lot of immigrant worker use these method...


[line]
Also, note carefully the responses by Elen.  This gives you a good insight into the mindset of the women you will meet.  If a meeting falls through with any single woman, they will simply get on the bus, go back home or to visit friends, and carry on their life as normal.  You, conversely, will be left with your finger up your butt . . . What this means is that you CANNOT be honest with these women. 
[line]


If the alchimy is not right... why not !!! What do you wish ? That she stay with you and make like she like you ? Maybe you wish that she share your bedroom same if she feel nothing for you ?

Maybe if you are honest from the beginning, you have more chance that she stay with you during the meeting... if you lie, the mask fall during the meeting and don't be surprised if she go away...

[Elen]

the silly situation in Russia

Living in the city where there was more than enough terracts for one human lifetime I don't see situation with Moscow registration is such silly.

I don't think you would die about having one more mark in your pasport. But check of  such mark in Chechens documents may save your life.

 

If a meeting falls through with any single woman, they will simply get on the bus, go back home or to visit friends, and carry on their life as normal. 

 Odd conclusion from my posts :?

 If we do not fall down at a floor with cries of frustuation it doesn't mean our heart is in the same solid condition as it was until we met you:X Each girl has her hopes and dreams and lost all of them at once is NOT "normal" Although nobody is going to commit suicide because of you as well