EU - Ukraine Protests

[mendeleyev]

Does Ukrainian PM Azarov speak Ukrainian, was the question.

Not really. In 2010 President Yanukonvict publicly announced that all his government ministers should learn to speak Ukrainian. Kind of a novel idea to speak the language of the country one is running...

Azarov is from Kaluga, a small but great Russian city about 2 hours outside Moscow so Russian is his native tongue. By late 2010 Azarov had purchased text materials and told a meeting of other ministers that he was ready to begin studies with a tutor. Since that time he has struggled, yet has made glorious progress in the spirit of Comrade Stalin, father of the great Soviet peoples. (cough, cough)

I'll send him links to my learning resources at the Mendeleyev Journal to spur him upward towards even higher linguistic greatness. Maybe he is following a 5-year plan at the language cooperative. 

Azarov does want to be president, badly, and so Yanukovich should watch his back.

 

[calmissile]

Mendy, at least you are keeping your sense of humor through all of this.   

[Boethius]

Like jone, I believe him to be a criminal. Security officers did not always finish sentences, sometimes they were conveniently moved around the prison circuit a couple of times and then reassigned.

Mendy, a criminal would never have been allowed to travel abroad let alone, have achieved the heights Yanukovych did in the USSR.   

[Boethius]

Does Ukrainian PM Azarov speak Ukrainian, was the question.

Not really. In 2010 President Yanukonvict publicly announced that all his government ministers should learn to speak Ukrainian. Kind of a novel idea to speak the language of the country one is running...

Azarov is from Kaluga, a small but great Russian city about 2 hours outside Moscow so Russian is his native tongue. By late 2010 Azarov had purchased text materials and told a meeting of other ministers that he was ready to begin studies with a tutor. Since that time he has struggled, yet has made glorious progress in the spirit of Comrade Stalin, father of the great Soviet peoples. (cough, cough)

I'll send him links to my learning resources at the Mendeleyev Journal to spur him upward towards even higher linguistic greatness. Maybe he is following a 5-year plan at the language cooperative. 

Azarov does want to be president, badly, and so Yanukovich should watch his back.

The problem is, many in the country do not speak Ukrainian.  For many in Central and Eastern Ukraine, Russian is the default language.  I, unlike my better half, strongly supported the Ukrainization of the country under Yushchenko, which has now been reversed.  Still, Russian was always the language of commerce.


On the streets of Kyiv even today, one will hear more Russian than Ukrainian.  The difference it that 20 years ago, if you spoke Ukrainian in a shop, you would only be answered in Russian.  Now, you have just as good a chance of being answered in Ukrainian.

[lordtiberius]

That is true in Kiev. 

 
But is it true in the Western parts of Ukraine? In Lviv, Ukrainian was the default language of choice and many spoke Polish and only conceded Russian like some of us speak Spanish to Mexicans.

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_12_03/Ukraines-Verkhovna-Rada-may-give-Cabinet-vote-of-no-confidence-3477/


Ukraine's Verkhovna Rada may give Cabinet vote of no confidence

[lordtiberius]

Azarov does want to be president, badly, and so Yanukovich should watch his back.

Doesn't el Presidente have many foreign trips planned? Is he abroad now?  What better way to get rid of him then to tell him not to bother to return unless he wants a jail cell next to Goldilocks?  Certainly the no-Yulias will not mind that she has someone to talk to in the cell block, no?

[calmissile]

Doesn't el Presidente have many foreign trips planned? Is he abroad now?  What better way to get rid of him then to tell him not to bother to return unless he wants a jail cell next to Goldilocks?  Certainly the no-Yulias will not mind that she has someone to talk to in the cell block, no?

Your humor on this one matches your smile.  LOL

[lordtiberius]

Revolution is indeed now afoot.  Observers from all over the world particularly Russia are watching on whether the conspirators and provocateurs as RT dubs them can pull it off. The first test of that Revolution is in the Rada tomorrow.  Will the opposition get the 226 votes needed to upend Region's control over the wayward Republic.  Prominent among the agitators stands Yuri Lutsenko who declared openly that the protests were not rallies but a revolution.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuriy_Lutsenko

Standing beside Lutsenko is the pop star Ruslana who you may recognize from Grand Theft Auto.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruslana



The singer hails from Lviv with a Russian mother.  The world knows her for her charms and her orchestral soundscapes.

Bickering and petty jockeying mark cabals.   Yet Bishops, Rooks and Knights command and threaten the political chess game inside the city.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleh_Tyahnybok
Oleg Tyahnybok leader of the Svobody or Freedom Party - ultra rightist from Lviv, wants all Ukrainian civil servants to be fluent in Ukraine and wants to deprive Sevastapol of its special status and Crimea of its autonomy.  Tyahnybok frequently criticizes Russia and wants Ukraine to join NATO.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitali_Klitschko
Vitali Klitschko is the only leader without strong ties to the incarcerated Tymoshenko, the only leader to have a life outside politics, the only one to make a living on his own talents and the only man to live in a Western Country for a long period of time.  Could he be the next President of Ukraine?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arseniy_Yatsenyuk
Arseniy Yatsenyuk is the current leader of the Fatherland party and Goldilock's number 2.

And what chess game would be complete without a queen?



Currently Geoff Pyatt serves as our ambassador.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_R._Pyatt

Yanokovich stunned the 50 year old San Diegan and immediately afterward Pyatt gave a speech stating that Ukraine's destiny was with the West.  Russian news agencies accuse the Ambassador of organizing the opposition but recently he re-tweeted a Washington Post editorial that stated the Ukraine does not need another revolution.

Barack Obama dispatched Daniel Brooks Baer to Kiev.  Baer serves as  U.S. ambassador to the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe.  His open homosexuality flies in the face of Russia's policies on the matter.



May you live in interesting times.

[lordtiberius]

40 votes short.  1 Regions defector.  Scuttlebutt over how Communists voted.  Regions hold 254 out of 444 Rada


Olga Shumylo-Tapiola tweets to me after I asked why isn't John Kerry in Ukraine.

@OShumyloTapiola
Follow
@lordtiberius @StateDept @danbbaer @GeoffPyatt @ChristopherJM @usosce better question - why is yanukovych out of Ukraine?
5:51 AM - 3 Dec 2013

[Brillynt]

What I have noticed is it seems that the media is posing this as a east vs. west Ukraine.  East wanting ties to Russia and West wanting ties to EU.  My wife and her 18 year old daughter want ties with the EU and they live in Lugansk.  I wish that more of this was reported.  When talking with her it is more an age difference issue, older people still remember soviet times fondly and want ties with Russia. Younger ( 40 or so and less) want ties with EU for more freedom and opportunities.

[jone]

It is always wonderful to see a hot RussBabe as part of the ongoing political movement.  LT, you should be commended for including Ruslana in your latest postings.  Just in case you did not see enough pictures of her, here is one from her Dance with the Wolf release:

[Shadow]

Seems election battle started early.

[Boethius]

What I have noticed is it seems that the media is posing this as a east vs. west Ukraine.  East wanting ties to Russia and West wanting ties to EU.  My wife and her 18 year old daughter want ties with the EU and they live in Lugansk.  I wish that more of this was reported.  When talking with her it is more an age difference issue, older people still remember soviet times fondly and want ties with Russia. Younger ( 40 or so and less) want ties with EU for more freedom and opportunities.

The polls suggest that, for the most part, it is an East vs West split.  The reason is economics.  Eastern Ukraine sells more products to Russia than does Western Ukraine and, therefore, would be more affected, economically, by a trade war with Russia.  The ethnically Russian population of Ukraine also is largely in the region that favours closer ties with Russia.

Tom's link had a breakdown by age as well as region, I believe:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=16674.msg349519#msg349519


I believe, from a short term economic perspective for Ukraine, Yanukovich's actions were the only option at this time.  I also believe that Ukraine should move closer to the EU.  One of the reasons Ukrainians favour the Association Agreement is not because of access to the EU, or trade, but rather, that they believe EU standards on democracy and corruption will slowly take root in Ukraine, as this is the only way the EU will allow increased trade.  I don't know, given some other East European EU members, if this is overly optimistic but, my guess is, yes.

[Muzh]

The polls suggest that, for the most part, it is an East vs West split.  The reason is economics.  Eastern Ukraine sells more products to Russia than does Western Ukraine and, therefore, would be more affected, economically, by a trade war with Russia.  The ethnically Russian population of Ukraine also is largely in the region that favours closer ties with Russia.


Tom's link had a breakdown by age as well as region, I believe:


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=16674.msg349519#msg349519

My outlaws were in Maidan over the weekend. There was a big group that went from Kharkiv. Then there are quite a few that are having Soviet flashbacks and keeping quiet because they are afraid of the thugs.
 
Speaking of thugs, my nephew was with his girlfriend and another couple at a cafe at the opera house. Those familiar with Kharkiv know of a park with some kind of monument symbolizing Ukraine. It appears that the Russian Orthodox Church got a plot of land adjacent to the park and is in the process of building something there since they surrounded the property with boards.
 
Well, my nephew and his friend went over to take a peek and the grabbed on to the boards to climb up enough to see what was going. The moment they did this the militzia grabbed them and took them for questioning. His buddy called his father who appears to be a big shot in the city and he took care of the whole thng, BUT not before my idiot (hmm, here's that word again) of a nephew refused to speak in Russian and instead spoke only in Ukrainian telling them he was a journalist, which he is not. DUH!
 
Next day his mother hears some guys calling for him outside the gate to their house. They were looking for the journalist so they could give him the whole story. (You know where this is going.) His mother is the one who answers and eventually opens the gate. Meanwhile, her son decides to show up and as soon as he did this the two boys became 4 thugs (2 hiding) and tried to grab him out in the street for a 'friendly' talk. He manages to get loose and runs inside the house. Luckly mama was at the gate and you know that no goon will face the wrath of mama so they leave. They called the big shot who told them to call the police. Then they called us.
 
Then I proceeded to ream him a new one.
 
WTF are you thinking!!!
 
I basically told him to use his brain and not be a hero. It is very difficult for him just to sit there. Too much national identity and testosterone and not enough brains. The problem is that these thugs are a bunch of cowards so the reason for them to always walk in groups.
 
So his uncles were advised to give him transpostation and company until he returns to Kyiv.
 
I contacted my friend at the Maidan Monitoring Information Center and she said she'll look into it.
 
To be continued....

[lordtiberius]

It is always wonderful to see a hot RussBabe as part of the ongoing political movement.  LT, you should be commended for including Ruslana in your latest postings.  Just in case you did not see enough pictures of her, here is one from her Dance with the Wolf release:

http://www.ruslana.ua/


She is  a talented woman.  For those unfamiliar with her, and I was prior to this, her father hails from a region in the Carpathian mountains which has its own unique folk culture which she integrates into her music.  She reminds me of Shakira:



She herself has a forum:
http://forum.ruslana.ua/index.php?setlang=eng

News articles about her bread and circus appearances for the opposition:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article3938387.ece
http://www.dw.de/ukraine-police-crack-down-on-anti-government-pro-europe-protests-in-kyiv/a-17263033

"We are demanding Yanukovych's resignation," said an opposition statement read by activist and singer Ruslana Lyzhichko. "We declare that we are continuing to fight for a European Ukraine," said Lyzhichko, who won the Eurovision song contest in 2004. - Date 30.11.2013

RT Television, the mouthpiece for Putin's dark thoughts has characterized the protests as being a foreign invention and another regional attempt for the Western part of Ukraine to pervert the national destiny.  RT took great lengths to point out the appearance of Polish politicians who gave encouraging speeches to the EU Ukrainians.  Ruslana had a message to the Belarussians under Putin's boot:

“I have always known that Belarusian people strongly support Ukraine. Dear brothers! I performed in Belarus many times, we love Belarus very much, you must believe my words. What was done in Ukraine was a crime against Ukrainian people. Ukrainian people saw a future for themselves, they realized that Europe would provide insurance, which we would be able to use in order to get rid of corruption, bribes, violence, lawlessness. Courts are bribed in Ukraine, the justice is bribed, law only work for those, who control them”, - she said.

The singer explained why hundreds of thousands of her country’s citizens came out for protest actions.

“We actually do want to integrate with the European Union, because we want Ukraine to be protected by standards and requirements. We no longer want the privatization of the country, we do not was gas to be turned off, for the country to be humiliated and blackmailed. There is no politics in that – these are common people, who have come out to the Maydan, there were no political flags above them on the day, when students were beaten. Students are the most principled people in the world, they are always idealists and maximalists, they stand for ideas, no one is able to provoke them, they are sincere and completely convinced of their views. These were simple guys, who were beaten half-dead. The girls, who were sleeping, were also brutally beaten like you could not imagine. I saw that blood with my own eyes, I can tell you it is a terrible sight.

Do not believe what politicians of provocateurs tell you on the news, please, believe simple words by people, people will tell you only one thing – this was an atrocity against children. We will never be able to forget that, because it was an actual bloody night, they were beaten with pleasure, with a grin, and screamed: “You asked for it – you get it!” How could this happen? Who did that, president Yanukovich? Why is he saying now that he has nothing to do with that? The authorities washed their hands and told these were not them. But then who? Who ordered to beat peaceful young people? I strongly count on the support of Belarusian people. Common Ukrainians love you very much and strongly count on understanding in hard times, come to the Maydan, stay with us for couple hours”, - Ruslana said.
http://www.charter97.org/en/news/2013/12/3/81020/

Perhaps Putin fears an ascendant Poland where Poland's former possession - Poland, Lithaunia, Belarus and Ukraine are aligned, allied or even apart of one super state.

Her record producer husband wrote the lyrics for her hit Wild Dances:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleksandr_Ksenofontov



 

[lordtiberius]

What I have noticed is it seems that the media is posing this as a east vs. west Ukraine.  East wanting ties to Russia and West wanting ties to EU.  My wife and her 18 year old daughter want ties with the EU and they live in Lugansk.  I wish that more of this was reported.  When talking with her it is more an age difference issue, older people still remember soviet times fondly and want ties with Russia. Younger ( 40 or so and less) want ties with EU for more freedom and opportunities.

There isn't a lot of English language comment about the protests in Ukraine.  What comment there is from Putin's propagandists - the TASS holdovers.  For a good look at what the other half of the argument is watch these videos





The speaker from the European Center of Geopolitical Analyses has this website:
http://icmu.nyc.gr/
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Center-for-Geopolitical-Analyses/577175805645598

He waxes about how the Ukrainian economy is tied to the Russian economy.  This explains why everything cost so much and is of such crappy quality.  It also explains why Russia is thriving and Ukraine is starving.

[mendeleyev]

Azarov says this is coup. Meanwhile Yanukovich arrived in China just after 5pm (Bejing time) and will be there thru Friday before flying directly to Moscow.

Yanukovich says that Moscow wanted to be a part of Ukraine's negotiation with the EU so that there would be no "misunderstandings" regarding the trade relationships of Russia and Ukraine.

He went on to say that he still favours a deal with the EU but that "If Ukraine had signed the Association Agreement, it would have lost its dialogue with Russia".

One does wonder. Read between the lines.

[Muzh]

Azarov says this is coup. Meanwhile Yanukovich arrived in China just after 5pm (Bejing time) and will be there thru Friday before flying directly to Moscow.

Yanukovich says that Moscow wanted to be a part of Ukraine's negotiation with the EU so that there would be no "misunderstandings" regarding the trade relationships of Russia and Ukraine.

He went on to say that he still favours a deal with the EU but that "If Ukraine had signed the Association Agreement, it would have lost its dialogue with Russia".

One does wonder. Read between the lines.

You have to wonder if Yanukonvict is really that smart. For example, the trip to China. Any other head of state would have cancelled any trips abroad and dealt with the internal situation first. You have a PM who's shitting on his pants shouting 'coup' at any chance he has. By being away he is egging on the protesters to work up the cojones and risk it all. When the shit hits the fan Yanukonvict comes home riding Russian tanks and 'liberates' the country of foreign elements.
 
OR...
 
He is teling Azarov, Here's the sword, fall on it. I'm counting my money. Will send you a postcard.

[lordtiberius]

Azarov says this is coup. Meanwhile Yanukovich arrived in China just after 5pm (Bejing time) and will be there thru Friday before flying directly to Moscow.

Yanukovich says that Moscow wanted to be a part of Ukraine's negotiation with the EU so that there would be no "misunderstandings" regarding the trade relationships of Russia and Ukraine.

He went on to say that he still favours a deal with the EU but that "If Ukraine had signed the Association Agreement, it would have lost its dialogue with Russia".

One does wonder. Read between the lines.

Is it true that Putin loathes Yanokonvict?

I was hunting up a story that confirmed my suspicion when I found this story:

http://valdaiclub.com/near_abroad/43100.html

Does the Yulia Tymoshenko factor exist in the bilateral relations?

Russia has long ago stated its position and has not changed it since then. We do not believe that Tymoshenko’s verdict was just or that she is guilty of anything. Importantly, this is an unprecedented case when Moscow, Brussels and Washington share a position on human rights, even if it comes to such a person as Tymoshenko

We know that Putin respects Goldilocks.  But what a bombshell.

[mendeleyev]

Agreed, Muzh. Until recently I  was under the impression that Azarov, a well-educated man, was much smarter than Yanukonvict. His whining about a coup, especially when in meetings with the US Ambassador, does raise some doubt.

From the Mendeleyev Journal:

Ukrainian Prime Minister Azarov, is telling anyone who will listen that this is a coup.


Sign on the Ukrainian Parliament building reads: "State of Revolution. (photo: trasyy LiveJournal)

The top countries meeting with the PM are Russia and the USA, just in case anyone doubts that the United States is somewhere in the thick of all this. We just don't know where yet. Obviously Russia has a great deal of interest in the current situation.

Meanwhile, having arrived in China on Tuesday afternoon for a state visit through Friday, Ukraine's President Viktor Yanukovich said that, "if Ukraine had signed the European Union Association Agreement, it would have lost its dialogue with Russia."

After concluding his visit to China on Friday, Mr. Yanukovich will fly directly to Moscow.

The China visit is odd behaviour for a president whose country is in turmoil and the sudden trip to Russia reminds us of Soviet days when leaders in distant republics were summoned back to Moscow.

[mendeleyev]

If Azarov, a more likable choice in Putin's eyes, ends up as prez after the smoke clears, then look to Moscow. Not saying it will happen.

[Hammer2722]

If Azarov, a more likable choice in Putin's eyes, ends up as prez after the smoke clears, then look to Moscow. Not saying it will happen.

If this was a possibility, would it be a surprise to anyone if Yanuk's plane met with an accident somewhere along the way? 

[Boethius]

She is  a talented woman.  For those unfamiliar with her, and I was prior to this, her father hails from a region in the Carpathian mountains which has its own unique folk culture which she integrates into her music.

Hutsuls.  Ancestral land of my Grandfather, God rest his soul.  One of our infrequent female members is a Hutsul. 

Sign on the Ukrainian Parliament building reads: "State of Revolution. (photo: trasyy LiveJournal)

Slight correction - Headquarters of the Revolution.   

[lordtiberius]

I asked evghenia sleptsova why 106 Party of Regions coalition members obstained.  This is what she wrote: 
@evghenia_v  bcs 74 of them are from the Party of Regions, and 32 - communists, also refused to vote unless AA was condemned.

she continues: only two thirds were needed, so 225.

This man is the best English speaking reporter in Kiev now.  Ambassador Geoff Pyatt publicly praised his reporting.

Here are excerpts of an article he recommended.  The Kyiv Post interviewed the Inna Bohoslovska who quit the party of Regions over the maidan blood bath:
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/politics/inna-bohoslovska-yanukovych-has-buried-his-country-332972.html

Inna Bohoslovska details Yanokovych's isolation and calls him a Czar for surrounding himself with toadies.
 
Interview by Mustafa Nayyem

MN: Who bears responsibility for this?

IB: The sad fact that the interior minister remains in his post shows that all responsibility for this event is being borne by the president. The biggest problem of the Regions' Party recently has been the absence of contact with the president. He has stopped speaking to people who previously were able to provide him with information. He stopped speaking even to those whom we call the “granddads,” with those who have been with him for all his life. He stopped accepting bad news, he stopped accepting the truth. And naturally, as with all authoritarian leaders, around him there developed an atmosphere in which damaging relationships with him and speaking the truth became uncomfortable.  And from the moment he isolated himself from information, he fell under the influence of somebody else's decisions.

One thing I can say for sure: the scenarios which are currently being played out are those of Victor Medvedchuk (pro-Russian former head of the Presidential Administration under Leonid Kuchma and family friend of Vladimir Putin who is the godfather of his daughter). I am prepared to put my head on the block and say that Medvedchuk is using Andriy Kluyev (Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council) other friends to run his scenarios. It's his style. And if Yanukovych does not stop now, everything will end in rivers of blood.  The center and west (of Ukraine) will not give up the country to Putin - that is obvious.  Strange as it may sound, the southeast of Ukraine will also not give up the country. The Russians will obviously start with Crimea.  And if we want to keep the country whole we should start working there.

MN: What do you think, did Yanukovych know that there would be a violent dispersal of the demonstration?

IB: I am certain.  Without him nobody would have done such a thing.

MN: Who are these puppet masters?

IB: I am sure that right now the situation is being led by Putin via Medvedchuk.

MN: Clearly it could not have all happened without some kind of agreement with Putin.  What could Putin have promised Yanukovych?

IB: I don't know. I can say with absolute certainty that if Yanukovych had signed the agreement he would 100 percent have been reelected. - And he knew this himself!  In the last meeting with the (parliamentary) faction (of the Party of the Regions) he actually forced his will on everybody who was in favor of the Russian vector. And at the same time I am certain that there is still a chance to take a step back and ask the EU to call an extraordinary summit in order to sign the association agreement with the EU.

MN: What is your most negative prediction?

IB: Right now everybody needs to understand - either we organize our opposition or we get covered in blood...I beg Yanukovych to understand that if he does not stop this violence machine and does not sign or not return to the EU then he and his people close to him will be cursed.  He will himself become the tailor of the funeral clothes for all those who are dearest to him.

MN: Was the Party of Regions united in its decision to join Europe?

IB: We had swings. Two months ago, Yanukovych met with the faction. It was a closed meeting.  He was at his most forceful and took charge of the situation in a virtuoso manner. About one third of those present were against the EU. He simply steamrollered them, bent them to his will.

MN: What do you think, is it possible to disband Independence Square?

IB: No, they will not go up against a large number of people. They do not have the physical strength. When the numbers fall they will act.

[Belvis]

the maidan blood bath

There is a lot of banters in russians blogs and fora about so called "maidan blood bath". People come to conclusion that in the West all those guys who stoned militia troops and take over govenment buildings were legally shot,  disagreement is expressed only by what bullets, rubber or combat. And in USA they would be tasered first, guys suppose.