5 Things You Should Know About Current Ukrainian Crisis

[Boethius]

BTW, Dubyna, a former Soviet industrial apparatchik, is one of the few members of the former nomenklatura who did not steal Ukraine blind.  In fact, he did not steal at all.  He is honest and very clean cut. 

[tfcrew]

Bo, your hatred for her ...

Yeah I was wondering that too.
What did Yulia do to you Bothius?

[Muzh]

I did not post that Yanukovych is a saint.  However, he has not, to date, exceeded his authority by breaking contracts that benefited Ukrainians and replacing them with contracts that cost Ukraine over 10% of its GDP.

I'm sorry Boe but both are 'tal para cual" meaning equally the same.
 
Too many pictures to post so here's a link.
 
http://www.google.com/search?q=yanukovych+house&client=firefox-a&hs=Prq&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=zrmoUoX9HMakyAHotYC4BA&ved=0CEwQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=892
 
And how he busted his ass to make his fortune
 
http://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/serhij-leschenko/yanukovych-luxury-residence-and-money-trail-that-leads-to-london
 
http://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/sergii-leshchenko/ukraine-yanukovychs-family-spreads-its-tentacles
 
And maybe, just maybe the real reason he will not sign an EU agreement.
 
http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish/Dysfunctions_2/Why-Yanukovych-Could-Never-Sign-an-EU-Deal.shtml

[Boethius]

I don't hate Tymoshenko.  But, please provide me with any reason to admire a murderer and a thief as in my world, these are not individuals to be admired.  Should I admire her for the fake braid on her head?  I'm not interested in what is on her head, but what is in her head and her blackened heart.  I am not interested in what she says, but what she does.


Give me the evidence of what good she ever did for the Ukrainian population.

[Muzh]

I don't hate Tymoshenko.  But, please provide me with any reason to admire a murderer and a thief as in my world, these are not individuals to be admired.  Should I admire her for the fake braid on her head?  I'm not interested in what is on her head, but what is in her head and her blackened heart.  I am not interested in what she says, but what she does.


Give me the evidence of what good she ever did for the Ukrainian population.

You'll get no argument from me here. She should rot in jail for all I care. Now, if we could add egg-boy to keep her company, then the country would be heading in the right path.

[Boethius]

I'm sorry Boe but both are 'tal para cual" meaning equally the same.
 
Too many pictures to post so here's a link.
 
http://www.google.com/search?q=yanukovych+house&client=firefox-a&hs=Prq&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=zrmoUoX9HMakyAHotYC4BA&ved=0CEwQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=892
 
And how he busted his ass to make his fortune
 
http://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/serhij-leschenko/yanukovych-luxury-residence-and-money-trail-that-leads-to-london
 
http://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/sergii-leshchenko/ukraine-yanukovychs-family-spreads-its-tentacles
 
And maybe, just maybe the real reason he will not sign an EU agreement.
 
http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish/Dysfunctions_2/Why-Yanukovych-Could-Never-Sign-an-EU-Deal.shtml

Once again, I never stated Yanukovych is a saint.  However, AFAIK, he has not, to date, forged state documents for his personal benefit.   Her crime doesn't look any better just because Yanukovych stole as well. 

I dispute the last article.  Every Ukrainian president has become fabulously wealthy.  I doubt the EU would pursue this.  I believe the IMF demands, and Russian threats re gas cuts and disruption of exports from Eastern Ukraine, is the reason for refusing to sign the Association Agreement.  The Ukrainian government truly was between a rock and a hard place.

[Boethius]

You'll get no argument from me here. She should rot in jail for all I care. Now, if we could add egg-boy to keep her company, then the country would be heading in the right path.

So should every other former president of Ukraine, and most of the members of the Rada. 

[Muzh]

Once again, I never stated Yanukovych is a saint.  However, AFAIK, he has not, to date, forged state documents for his personal benefit.   Her crime doesn't look any better just because Yanukovych stole as well. 

I dispute the last article.  Every Ukrainian president has become fabulously wealthy.  I doubt the EU would pursue this.  I believe the IMF demands, and Russian threats re gas cuts and disruption of exports from Eastern Ukraine, is the reason for refusing to sign the Association Agreement.  The Ukrainian government truly was between a rock and a hard place.

In February 2010, when he was elected, Viktor Yanukovych enjoyed support from most of the big businessmen. He quickly formed a cabinet that represented - by my count - nine different enterprise groups. But through a rapid series of governmental changes he reduced this number to two by December 2013.

At present, the government - and increasingly the economy - is dominated by a group of young businessmen who are friends with Mr Yanukovych's eldest son Oleksandr, 40. They are widely known as the Yanukovych "family".

However, who owns what is not exactly clear, and it is possible that in fact much of the wealth might belong to Mr Yanukovych's real family.

These young businessmen from Donetsk, Mr Yanukovych's eastern home region, hold all the key economic positions in the government as well as the powerful post of interior minister.

Mr Yanukovych has used a salami tactic against the tycoons.

Young businessmen or corporate raiders buy out their enterprises one after the other. These sales have been described as not very voluntary, given that the "family" controls law enforcement, courts and the tax authorities.

BBC
 
I guess Goldilocks should have done it the 'salami' way. They claim it is legal.

[Boethius]

How does this result in millions of Ukrainians paying 10 times more for their winter gas?  That, IMHO, is what sets Tymoshenko apart. 

[Muzh]

How does this result in millions of Ukrainians paying 10 times more for their winter gas?  That, IMHO, is what sets Tymoshenko apart.

http://www.unian.info/news/441832-yanukovych-is-reverse-robin-hood-he-steals-from-the-poor-to-give-to-the-rich.html

[Boethius]

Pensions were not cut for some pensioners who had much higher pensions than the average (i.e, former commies).  Pensions, overall, have increased twice since Yanukovych has been in power.  There have been a few times where receipt of a pension has been delayed.  I follow this closely, as MIL lives solely on her pension, and we supplement her income, though at her request, not monthly.

[Muzh]

I'm sorry Boe, but to me they are all a bunch of Sovok relics. For all I care they should all be buried with their past, literally.

[Boethius]

Why are you sorry?   I don't disagree.

[mendeleyev]

and most of the members of the Rada

Yes, thus my point.

[Boethius]

The better half, from the day he left the USSR, contended the CPSU and all republic parties should have faced Nuremberg trials, and all commie party members should have been banned from holding public office for at least two decades.  I think a Truth and Reconciliation Commission would have been better.  In the end, Yakovlev won, the party records, and party crimes, are sealed, and the old masters are the new masters.

[Boethius]

Yes, thus my point.

But they were not involved in the contract negotiations, or its ratification. 

[Muzh]

Why are you sorry?   I don't disagree.

With you, I'm always very polite. 

[Muzh]

The better half, from the day he left the USSR, contended the CPSU and all republic parties should have faced Nuremberg trials, and all commie party members should have been banned from holding public office for at least two decades.  I think a Truth and Reconciliation Commission would have been better.  In the end, Yakovlev won, the party records, and party crimes, are sealed, and the old masters are the new masters.

You know the sad part is that the country needs some of these bastards like Ahkmetov, et.al. in order to survive. The only saving grace is that they are not that much interested in politics, just money.
 
Just like the Kennedys, the Carnegies, and the Rockefellers. Bunch of criminal bastards.

[mendeleyev]

Muzh despite our being on opposite sides of the fence at times, we are so close on so many issues. I still don't know why FDR didn't have old man Kennedy in front of a firing squad the minute he returned home. Sure, he used the traitor to hand false information to the Nazi's but treason is treason and FDR should have had him doused within a hour of return.

[lordtiberius]

Timshenko is a political prisoner.  To accept the "evidence" as a pretext for imprisonment redefines democratic judicial standards away from "beyond a reasonable doubt" for arbitrary ones.  She may be a bad leader and a bad person.  But that is not illegal.  She maybe guilty of crimes, but her accusers have no evidence.  The conspiracy theories offered by members on different threads about JFK and Tower 7 compell more curiousity than what we have here and on the voluminous threads exploring her guilt.

I have no interest in this woman.  She came from privilege and got rich, inspired millions and disappointed them.  Can she lead Ukraine?  Yes.  Should she?  My preference is for someone else.  Klitchko because he lived in the West, Andry Shevchenko, Petro Poroshenko, Tainybok or Yatensiuk, Rybchak, take your pick.  But should the Dowager Queen be in jail?

No.

[tfcrew]

Don't leave out Lenny Kuchma

His presidency was surrounded by numerous corruption scandals and the lessening of media freedoms. Corruption accelerated after Kuchma's election in 1994

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Kuchmahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Kuchma
 

[ML]

On our latest trip to DC, Ochka continued to be impressed with the men who helped found our country . . . and was so depressed that there aren't such men/women in Ukraine.

She, I, and I suppose many others are amazed when we hear how George could have had any title and power that he wanted; but instead chose to go back to Mt. Vernon . . . at least until duty called again.

John A., Ben F., etc.  I  don't think any of them ever enriched themselves at the expense of the citizens.

We are indeed blessed to have been created and served by such.

By the way . . . the fairly new Visitor's Center (or whatever it's called) at Mt Vernon is quite impressive and interesting.  Be sure to enter, rather than just look at and in his house.

[TomT]

... redefines democratic judicial standards away from "beyond a reasonable doubt" for arbitrary ones.

In practice, there is no such thing as "reasonable doubt" in Ukraine so that begs the question of how one moves away from something that never existed. Of course, my knowledge is dated so we should get a legal opinion from someone who has gone there recently.


p.s.


Don't you ever tire of spamming the forum with your photos and videos?

[Boethius]

Don't leave out Lenny Kuchma

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Kuchmahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Kuchma

Tymoshenko came to Kyiv as part of his Dnipropetrovsk mafia.

[lordtiberius]

On our latest trip to DC, Ochka continued to be impressed with the men who helped found our country . . . and was so depressed that there aren't such men/women in Ukraine.

You don't think there are such people at Euromaidan?