Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members

[SteveOR]

 
The Canadian Embassy in Ukraine is now closed.
 
"The Embassy is temporarily closed until further notice.  Canadians requiring urgent assistance can email sos@international.gc.ca or call collect 613-996-8885"
 
http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/ukraine/index.aspx
 

[tfcrew]

Just when a truce is 'offered'

Ukraine President Viktor Yanukovych says he has agreed a truce with opposition leaders, after at least 26 people died in protests this week.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26267220

[cc3]

This begs the  question ,if the new head of the army gets poor results..
due to an possible unwillingness of Ukrainian military personal to engage.

Will Putin send in Russian troops as aid to Yanukovych?

If Putin did so, the West would probably cut off oligarch access to London, New York, and Florida mansions, yachts, and children's private schools. This would be too dire a result for Putin to hazard!

[Anotherkiwi]

Just when a truce is 'offered'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26267220

This is even worse news for BillyB's mother-in-law - the violence has spread to L'viv and Ivano-Frankivsk.

[Larry1]

Here is a short video about the protests.



The girl narrating the video is beautiful.

[JayH]

Here is a short video about the protests.



The girl narrating the video is beautiful.

Nice one L-- can everyone forward link to as many people as they can-- the more people aware and interested can only help-- the only thing saving the protesters lives is that the world is watching.

[jone]

Larry,

Only you would go dumpster diving for some garbage on Yanukovich and come up with a RussBabe!

Did you tell her that you'd support her in America if things go bad in Kyiv?

[Larry1]

Larry,

Only you would go dumpster diving for some garbage on Yanukovich and come up with a RussBabe!

Did you tell her that you'd support her in America if things go bad in Kyiv?

I think I found the link to the video when I was reading Instapundit, the blog of my favorite law professor, Glenn Reynolds.

I would love to make cozy home for her. 

[tfcrew]

Is Putin Behind the Ukraine Crackdown?

Russian leaders Wednesday repeated previous assurances that they will not intervene in Ukraine. But experts say the Kremlin is using all its leverage behind the scenes to convince Ukrainian authorities to forcibly restore order, and may be rethinking its options if beleaguered President Viktor Yanukovych loses power to his outspokenly anti-Russian opponents amid an increasingly violent standoff in downtown Kiev.
Experts say a late-night telephone conversation Tuesday between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Mr. Yanukovych presumably focused on the deteriorating situation and that Mr. Putin's advice isn't hard to guess at.
     
  "It seem absolutely clear that the three attempts Yanukovych has made to bring harsh pressure on the protesters occupying Kiev's Maidan square over the past three months, with the toughest being last night, were discussed and agreed in advance between Putin and Yanukovych," says Nikolai Petrov, a professor at Moscow's Higher School of Economics.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2014/0219/Is-Putin-pushing-for-a-crackdown-in-Ukraine

[tfcrew]

Ukraine Moves Toward Martial Law as Western Region Splits  By Aliaksandr Kudrytski and Daryna Krasnolutska  Feb 19, 2014 3:23 PM CT

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-18/ukraine-fighting-leaves-at-least-18-dead-as-kiev-barricades-burn.html

[JayH]

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/ukraine-moves-toward-martial-law-dQi90dKMTzKWFCjqURaafw.html

http://postomania.ru/post313885411/?upd

[BillyB]

This is even worse news for BillyB's mother-in-law - the violence has spread to L'viv and Ivano-Frankivsk.

She's still here. Don't know if the truce will last. Anything short of the President resigning or coming to an agreement with the European Union, the violence will be back.

[Brillynt]

I just don't understand why everyone thinks the protestors are the ones that are right.  They are destroying private and public property when they became violent.  The protestors started a lot of the violence in the past week, not the government. If everyone believes otherwise then the western media is spinning it as usual. 

Think about all the police that are being captured and beaten/killed.  These are young men, husbands and fathers as well.  I am not saying the government is not at fault as well. But to me it looks like the protestors have just become thugs and criminals. This is seeing the local news and watching with my wife here in Ukraine.  Not from the biased western media.

What would happen in the US if the same thing was happening?  You know the government would shut down the violence any way they could.  Remember  the Occupy protestors from last year? What did the US government/ City governments do?  Remember back to the Vietnam era when the police went after the college students and protestors?

Yesterday the protestors took the Ivano-Franco oblast govenor and put him on a stage with a noose next to him while they handcuffed and let the crowd throw things at him. He has not been seen since.  All that because he would not resign from office as they demanded. This is just the ways of terrorists and thugs, to try to intimidate people.

Kerry, Obama and McCain need to shut their stupid mouths as they have no idea of what is really happening.

So to me it seems like the west just wants to change the government to get Ukraine away from Russia.  This really has nothing to do with saving the protestors, it is all politics as usual.

I know the flames will be coming my way, but I got tired of just seeing the "Oh the poor poor protestors are being hurt" posts.

When the protests first started, I was on the protestors side of the argument. But this last week has shown to me that they are nothing more then common criminals.

[Noch1]

Brillynt, I am curious, where is your wife from in Ukraine?

You should keep in mind  you are not the only one here, with family and friends in Ukraine.

[Faux Pas]

I just don't understand why everyone thinks the protestors are the ones that are right.  They are destroying private and public property when they became violent.  The protestors started a lot of the violence in the past week, not the government. If everyone believes otherwise then the western media is spinning it as usual. 

Think about all the police that are being captured and beaten/killed.  These are young men, husbands and fathers as well.  I am not saying the government is not at fault as well. But to me it looks like the protestors have just become thugs and criminals. This is seeing the local news and watching with my wife here in Ukraine.  Not from the biased western media.

What would happen in the US if the same thing was happening?  You know the government would shut down the violence any way they could.  Remember  the Occupy protestors from last year? What did the US government/ City governments do?  Remember back to the Vietnam era when the police went after the college students and protestors?

Yesterday the protestors took the Ivano-Franco oblast govenor and put him on a stage with a noose next to him while they handcuffed and let the crowd throw things at him. He has not been seen since.  All that because he would not resign from office as they demanded. This is just the ways of terrorists and thugs, to try to intimidate people.

Kerry, Obama and McCain need to shut their stupid mouths as they have no idea of what is really happening.

So to me it seems like the west just wants to change the government to get Ukraine away from Russia.  This really has nothing to do with saving the protestors, it is all politics as usual.

I know the flames will be coming my way, but I got tired of just seeing the "Oh the poor poor protestors are being hurt" posts.

When the protests first started, I was on the protestors side of the argument. But this last week has shown to me that they are nothing more then common criminals.

Do you believe the Ukrainian government is corrupt? If so, do you believe the corrupt government gives two shits about what is right or wrong? Do you believe for even an instant that the Ukrainian officials will just walk away and bend to the will of the people?

Ukrainians are obviously fed up with the corruption and more specifically the lean toward an even more corrupt Russian government and away from democracy. The protesters for the most part are patriots. Your comparison to the social leeches of the Occupy movement in the U.S. couldn't be more insulting and you owe every Ukrainian an apology IMHO

[BillyB]

The protestors started a lot of the violence in the past week, not the government.

Who started out corrupted first? The police and government or protestors? The protestors anger has been brewing for years and you think they started it?

Think about all the police that are being captured and beaten/killed.  These are young men, husbands and fathers as well. 

When you work for the public enlisting in the military or police department, you have a choice at a time like this, work for the government or work for the public. The military chief that was recently fired chose the public and he's still alive.

Kerry, Obama and McCain need to shut their stupid mouths as they have no idea of what is really happening.

Who knows what's really happening to solve this problem? Putin?

So to me it seems like the west just wants to change the government to get Ukraine away from Russia.  This really has nothing to do with saving the protestors, it is all politics as usual.

Insert "Russia" in place of "west". Since WWII, Russia has done a better job spreading Communism and influencing countries. The west learned how to influence governments from them and is currently winning the battle. Bottom line is if the west isn't active in making friends, we won't exist. History has shown that.

Yesterday the protestors took the Ivano-Franco oblast govenor and put him on a stage with a noose next to him while they handcuffed and let the crowd throw things at him. He has not been seen since.  All that because he would not resign from office as they demanded. This is just the ways of terrorists and thugs, to try to intimidate people.

You think that's bad, you should read about America's Civil War. America's bloodiest, even more than WWI and WWII.


Every country has political differences among it's people. Half the people in America don't like Obama but his politics aren't extreme enough for those who disapprove to go out and take over the government. The President of Ukraine needs to realize he's loved by some people but hated by others so much that they're willing to take back the government. With that fact, he should step down and allow a President to be elected who can at least put in policies that will satisfy all Ukrainians to the point they won't start a civil war.

[ghost of moon goddess]

The protesters for the most part are patriots. Your comparison to the social leeches of the Occupy movement in the U.S. couldn't be more insulting and you owe every Ukrainian an apology IMHO

Faux Pas, may I You?

Today Ukraine marks a day of mourning 
http://24tv.ua/home/showNews.do?euromaidan&tagId=3882&startRow=15&lang=en

[tfcrew]

Do you believe the Ukrainian government is corrupt?

What government isn't?

Half the people in America don't like Obama

Personally, I don't know anybody who does.

[pokerintherear]

Holy crap the use of snipers.

For the uniformed by standers. Snipers in a battlefield situation are the most feared enemy. It can have a big psychological affect on the participants.

Very seldom used in riots or protest's if ever. Especially on your own people. They shoot to kill.

I think this says a lot about the Ukrainian government. Its all very sad.

[tfcrew]

A link on the above...
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/02/20/ukraine_truce_comes_to_a_violent_end.html

[Brillynt]

Who started out corrupted first? The police and government or protestors? The protestors anger has been brewing for years and you think they started it?

That does not give the protesters the right to violence or destruction.  They voted in the current politicians.  They can vote them out in the next election.  Or as the current US president likes to say, "Elections have consequences".  Let me be clear, I am not a fan of the current regime in Ukraine. But the protestors went from protestors to criminals the last week to 10 days.

When you work for the public enlisting in the military or police department, you have a choice at a time like this, work for the government or work for the public. The military chief that was recently fired chose the public and he's still alive.

I was in the military, so I really understand this. Would I fire on a civilian with out cause, no. But if someone is shooting at me or trying to hurt me, then I will defend myself.

You think that's bad, you should read about America's Civil War. America's bloodiest, even more than WWI and WWII.

I have read history, so this is meaningless.  My example was to show how fellow Ukrainians are being treated by these "Patriots".

[ML]

Ochka is really getting torn up by this stuff going on in Ukraine.

Her school work is lagging as she is spending so much time on internet reading about events.

I have to threaten to take her computer away to get her to get back to her school work.

[Chelseaboy]

Brillynt,

             And how are "fellow Ukrainians" being treated by their government and the Police ?

What about the protestors who are being captured,beaten and killed by the very same Police you're showing such concern for ?

[SteveOR]

That does not give the protesters the right to violence or destruction.  They voted in the current politicians.  They can vote them out in the next election.  Or as the current US president likes to say, "Elections have consequences".  Let me be clear, I am not a fan of the current regime in Ukraine. But the protestors went from protestors to criminals the last week to 10 days.

The elections of which you speak are widely reported and believed to have been corrupt with lots of ballet box stuffing and mysterious ballet box disappearances.  There were even reports of election officials sleeping on top of ballot boxes to try to protect them.  The Ukrainian elections were not like anything an American or other Westerner would recognize as legitimate.
 
 

[pokerintherear]

They voted in the current politicians.  They can vote them out in the next election. 

Here is the problem. So, to get rid of a "corrupt government" you wait for an election run by the "corrupt government". The people know this and they are not naive.