Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members

[steveboy]

Ukraine should be split, give the Western side to the EU and US to bail out, they can spend the next decade bailing them out, pouring money into the new Ukrainian  government to pinch, let them have their prize they fought so hard for.
I hope Putin comes in to defend the Russians in Crimea, good man!!! He will have to do that now the new Ukrainian government is run by neo nazis who want the Russians out, next thing they will be doing is taking all the Russian language signs down and persecuting Russians, they already shot two near Kiev this week.

Viva Russia!!!!

[steveboy]

Many people living in the EUSSR disagree.

Yes, to many people here have been fed with Western propaganda!! At least in Russia your not under 24/7 CCTV surveillance!! Its all total crap!! The rights of UK citizens have been eroding for years. And lets not even go into your privacy rights in the EU with the US bugging every bloody possible thing possible.

B****** B****** B******** How come so many "armchair a matures" here know so much about living under mr Putin???

[cc3]

Ukraine should be split, give the Western side to the EU and US to bail out, they can spend the next decade bailing them out, pouring money into the new Ukrainian  government to pinch, let them have their prize they fought so hard for.
I hope Putin comes in to defend the Russians in Crimea, good man!!! He will have to do that now the new Ukrainian government is run by neo nazis who want the Russians out, next thing they will be doing is taking all the Russian language signs down and persecuting Russians, they already shot two near Kiev this week.

Viva Russia!!!!

 You qualify for the G. W. Bush and V. Putin military imperialists' club.

[The Natural]

Ukraine should be split, give the Western side to the EU and US to bail out, they can spend the next decade bailing them out, pouring money into the new Ukrainian  government to pinch, let them have their prize they fought so hard for.
I hope Putin comes in to defend the Russians in Crimea, good man!!! He will have to do that now the new Ukrainian government is run by neo nazis who want the Russians out, next thing they will be doing is taking all the Russian language signs down and persecuting Russians, they already shot two near Kiev this week.

Viva Russia!!!!

Yeah. The west knew they supported the Ukrainians and probably the muslims along with them. But it remains to be seen if they knew that the neo-nazis would take over the show and call the shots. Or were they dangerous parasites like in the Alien movies that no-one knew would follow and then start making mayhem on everybody?

[steveboy]

You qualify for the G. W. Bush and V. Putin military imperialists' club.

Im changing citizenship shortly from UK to Russian well its planned! The EU can keep my tax money, my pension and the whole daaaaaaammmm lot!!!

[steveboy]

Yeah. The west knew they supported the Ukrainians and probably the muslims along with them. But it remains to be seen if they knew that the neo-nazis would take over the show and call the shots. Or were they dangerous parasites like in the Alien movies that no-one knew would follow and then start making mayhem on everybody?

I have already heard many stories about what the Neo nazis in the "New" Ukrainian government are doing!!
Including several of my other halfs Russian friends living in Ukraine in tears on the phone about the situation!

Roll on the next 5 years when the real truth will come out. Lets see how the EU and US manage their star prize!! lol

Ukraine simply does not fit in with the EU

[Muzh]

In recent times it seems like every time there is a revolt in a country we(the USA) is getting blamed for fomenting or aiding the revolutionaries.  I think we (the USA) should just stfu (especially kerry and mccain) and let these countries figure out their own messes.  We don't need to be commenting, encouraging, or paying/arming, anybody...if they want to revolt and kill each other, then let them do what they are going to do and do business with whoever is left standing. 


Fathertime!   

That's just brilliant, Mr. Chamberlain. Look what happened last time when you STFU.

[Muzh]

Uh-huh. And, under which budget line item do they put the hundreds of millions they presumably have stashed in cash in the various vaults of the untold embassies so people can simply walk in and out with suitcases full of cash. I can imagine whichever Senate review committee asking: "So why do we need to spend $100 million for 'photocopying' at the Ukraine embassy?"

C'mon Misha. You are smarter than that.

[Muzh]

so much for practicing what you preach

I HATE agreeing with Ade especially in light of the fact that I advocate for a more muscular US interventionist policy but we only have 1 out of 100 senators who agree with your common sense approach to this - Sen Ran Paul of Kentucky.  The other 99 idiots are Feinstein-ish and will defer to the bureaucracy who will say on the record - LIES - but it is an open secret that the intel budget is BLACK and not up for discussion.

Normally I don't volunteer this knowledge because normally we would not have a communist subversive in elected power, but we do  - TWICE.  I therefore warn you as a friend, as someone who agrees with you on this issue, and as someone who loves and admires Canada - pursue a separate ofriegn policy and do not depend or TRUST the United States.

 
Time for meds?

[steveboy]

http://twitter.com/euromaidan/status/438922074132738048/photo/1

Russian flag flies over the Crimean Rada

Good stuff!!!!

[Muzh]

Yes, to many people here have been fed with Western propaganda!! At least in Russia your not under 24/7 CCTV surveillance!! Its all total crap!! The rights of UK citizens have been eroding for years. And lets not even go into your privacy rights in the EU with the US bugging every bloody possible thing possible.

B****** B****** B******** How come so many "armchair a matures" here know so much about living under mr Putin???

Forget about bugging. How about voyagerism.
 
The NSA may not be listening to your private phone calls, but it has been watching your private parts
 
In light of the latest global surveillance leaks on Thursday by former U.S. government contractor Edward Snowden, scanners at U.S. airports that catalog you in full birthday-suit glory seem somewhat tame.
 
The latest details published in The Guardian reveal one the most egregious privacy invasions committed by a democratic power, ensnaring millions of Yahoo Messenger users through the watchful eye of their own governments.
 
ZDNet
 

[steveboy]

Forget about bugging. How about voyagerism.
 
The NSA may not be listening to your private phone calls, but it has been watching your private parts
 
In light of the latest global surveillance leaks on Thursday by former U.S. government contractor Edward Snowden, scanners at U.S. airports that catalog you in full birthday-suit glory seem somewhat tame.
 
The latest details published in The Guardian reveal one the most egregious privacy invasions committed by a democratic power, ensnaring millions of Yahoo Messenger users through the watchful eye of their own governments.
 
ZDNet

So your telling me half of the US NSA knows what is in my pants now!!! great!!

[fathertime]

That's just brilliant, Mr. Chamberlain. Look what happened last time when you STFU.

Since you are so brilliant  I would have figured that you would recognize the differences between Germany 1939 and the situation in Ukraine...but probably not.  We (the USA) should keep out...

Fathertime!

[fathertime]

The hypocrisy of the US politicions is mind boggling.  John Kerry has just said


JOHN KERRY
"Any kind of military intervention that would violate the sovereign territorial integrity of Ukraine would be a huge, a grave mistake," Kerry told reporters in Washington. "The territorial integrity of Ukraine needs to be respected."[/size]

So now we are all about 'sovereignty?  Really? after what we have done in recent years and threatened to do.  Libya, and Syria come to mind.  Russia has a helluva better reason to intervene than we have had in these other countries.  We should not be 'issuing warnings' to anybody anymore.  Mind our own damn business is what we should be doing.[/font]

Fathertime!

[steveboy]

The hypocrisy of the US politicions is mind boggling.  John Kerry has just said


JOHN KERRY
"Any kind of military intervention that would violate the sovereign territorial integrity of Ukraine would be a huge, a grave mistake," Kerry told reporters in Washington. "The territorial integrity of Ukraine needs to be respected."[/size]

So now we are all about 'sovereignty?  Really? after what we have done in recent years and threatened to do.  Libya, and Syria come to mind.  Russia has a helluva better reason to intervene than we have had in these other countries.  We should not be 'issuing warnings' to anybody anymore.  Mind our own damn business is what we should be doing.[/font]

Fathertime!

Good man, I couldn't agree more!! keep the f***** out of other peoples business!!

[Misha]

C'mon Misha. You are smarter than that.

Sorry, tin foil hats are not my thing. Rather than patronizing the populace and saying they revolted just because they were paid, I will subscribe to Occam's Razor and conclude that most were there because they were frustrated with Yanukovych's 180 degree turn...

[Ade]

Sorry, tin foil hats are not my thing. Rather than patronizing the populace and saying they revolted just because they were paid, I will subscribe to Occam's Razor and conclude that most were there because they were frustrated with Yanukovych's 180 degree turn...

It must be a terrible thing, not being able to understand English well enough to have a conversation. But let me help you with that; no one, as far as I'm aware, has said that the entire population revolted just because they were paid.

[justme100]

Good man, I couldn't agree more!! keep the f***** out of other peoples business!!

+100000000

[JayH]

13:27: PM Yatsenyuk has accused the government of former President Viktor Yanukovych of stripping state coffers bare, according to Reuters. He was quoted as saying that in the past three years "the sum of $70bn (£42bn) was paid out of Ukraine's financial system into off-shore accounts".
He added: "The state treasury has been robbed and is empty... $37bn dollars of credit received have disappeared in an unknown direction."

[Voyager36]

I have no problem with the affairs of all political aspirants being put under the microscope.
BUT--realistically you are comparing a president that authorised and promoted the murder of his own citizens-- get some balance in your views when making comparisons.

Dude, we have no idea who "authorized" the shooting of protesters, be it the Interior Minister, Police Chief, or President. Or possibly the police on the scene took their own initiative.
And as for "murder", let's keep in mind that these weren't peaceful protesters or innocent bystanders, these were protestors armed with firearms & Molotov cocktails chasing after the police.
Now obviously it's awful that people died, and I'm certainly not saying that they deserved to die, however had this occurred in the US or any western nation, where police had been injured or killed by protesters armed with guns & Molotov cocktails, would we be surprised that some had been shot?
 
 

[Noch1]

I think all sides should let Ukraine sort it out.
But at this point does any one for a minute believe
Ukraine, wants everyone to just go home.
They have a long way to go and who knows what will happen in coming weeks.
But to start they need 35 billion. Can't see them asking anyone to go away.

I figure they are now trying to figure out how to play both sides of the coin.
how to move closer to the west and keep a healthy relationship with
Russia, neat trick if they pull it off. On top of that, the have to try and
figure out how to run a country with a lot less corruption. Something none of them
have ever done before. Another neat trick. FIrst they have the problem
of keeping the country together, another neat trick.
They don't need a politician, they need a magician.
\I for one am pulling for them, put this just the beginning of a very long road
and the first 5 years are all up hill.

[Misha]

It must be a terrible thing, not being able to understand English well enough to have a conversation. But let me help you with that; no one, as far as I'm aware, has said that the entire population revolted just because they were paid.

You always have to throw in a personal insult don't you? All one has to do is to pay attention to the dominant Russian media notably Channel 1 and some nationalist online sources to see that the prevailing discourse blames foreign money and foreign states for the uprising. This is a common theme that is applied to the Euromaidan protestors in Ukraine and the opposition leaders in Russia.

[remiel6]

Since my wife's family is Russian and lives near Russian Border near Krasny luch. All this news makes me a bit nervous

[justme100]

There is one place here in Sevastopol, it's called 35 battery...historical-monumental complex.Some of those who visited Sevastopol might know it. Well, the place is a monumental complex in honor of those who died during the siege of Sevastopol by fascists during the Second World War. At the very end of an interesting excursion guide brings you to place called Pantheon.When all people gather lights go of and you remain in full silence and total darkness, you can't even see someone next to you. And then suddenly quiet tunes begin to sound and one star lights up on the dark surface of the sky. It approaches slowly and you can see that this star is a soul..a soul of soldier who died. they then come more quickly these stars, one by one, until you are all surrounded by them and there is no more place but they keep appearing these stars with a real photo of boys 18-25, with huge smiling eyes looking directly at you. When the lights finally are back you can see all people around you are in tears,as well as you. Not sure, maybe there is a video somewhere online. So, why I;m telling all this now...only paid drug stuffed youngsters could fight on Maydan carrying the fascists flags and being proud of them. Someone mentioned his relatives being there for free, ask them if they were also there carrying the fascists flags, or they were there just merely to protest against Yanuckovich, who is our country's real shame. Our ex president has not a single person in the whole Ukraine being for him, but who really believes there were a lot of people on Maydan approving the new goverment that came, where the most part of ministers assigned today were part of fascist organizations!

[Voyager36]

Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members
Demonstrators in Kiev are fighting for the things European Union countries take for granted – freedom, democracy and peace.

Demonstrators in Kiev were hardly fighting for democracy, that is at best media spin, and at worst, pure bull****.
They were demanding a defacto coup d'état, which is more or less what's occurred.

Chris Huhne
The Guardian, Monday 24 February 2014 04.59 AEST

'What was once achieved only by Habsburg or Ottoman repression is now achieved by EU‑led consent.' Illustration: Andrzej Krauze
It is humbling to see protesters in Kiev's Independence Square prepared to lay down their lives for freedoms we take for granted. At its simplest, the Ukraine tragedy is a fight for democratic rights at the frontier of autocracy.

Here's the problem with that glorious spin.
Yanukovich may be a thief or a fool, but he was no dictator, he was democratically elected president of Ukraine, in an election declared "fair & free" by Western observers, and the OSCE
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/feb/08/viktor-yanukovych-ukraine-president-election

UK Guardian (2010) - "Yanukovych set to become president as
observers say
Ukraine election was fair."
"Monitors praise 'impressive display' of democracy"

The Parliamentary elections in 2012 had some problems, but the end the % result wasn't much different from the first round of the 2010 elections - Yanukovich & Party of regions at 30%,  Timoshenko's Bloc 25%, with the third place candidate getting 13%.
 
So the problem I have with this fairy tail of "democracy triumphs over autocracy" is that Yanukovich was the democratically elected President, after a fair Presidential election.
The protestors don't like him, his policies, or his choice to accept the Russian bailout vs pushing for EU ties?
Too darn bad!  That's democracy. The democratic thing to do would be to vote him out in the next election, which was less than a year away.
Are there times when elections in my country or your country produce a candidate or policies that you or I don't like? - sure! But going down to the capital and throwing bricks & Molotovs isn't the answer in a democracy.

But Ukraine is also different because it is suffering the rival magnetic pulls
of Russia and the European Union. For Russia, the dynastic suzerain of much of
Ukraine since 1686, Ukrainian independence is seen as a historic humiliation.
Some 17% of the population – thanks to Stalin's gift of the Crimea – are Russian
speakers who look to Moscow.

Gee, should we put faith in conclusions drawn in an article by some reporter who can't get his facts straight, and can't be bothered to spend 5 minutes fact checking?
Crimea wasn't given to Ukraine by Stalin, but by Khrushchev 
http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/02/27/283481587/crimea-a-gift-to-ukraine-becomes-a-political-flash-point