Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members

[justme100]

But in the four days since, the tide of opinion in eastern cities appears to be turning back towards Kiev.

Video from Donetsk several hours ago
http://lifenews.ru/news/128477

[Muzh]

Brilliant! 

It's your own fault for paying attention to that nonsense.

[Muzh]

I was simply trying to be gracious.  But I do see the humor.

Aw c'mon. It was a good ribbing. 

[justme100]

Port of Istanbul is as far as it can go anyway.

yep, being 73. 2 meters high "George Bush" won't be able to proceed any further. Unless Turks permit to destroy their Bosfor bridge which has only 64 meters passage height.

[Muzh]

yep, being 73. 2 meters high "George Bush" won't be able to proceed any further. Unless Turks permit to destroy their Bosfor bridge which has only 64 meters passage height.

Not to mention it would cause the Russians to shit in their pants.

[justme100]

Not to mention it would cause the Russians to shit in their pants.

dream on

[Faux Pas]

I was simply trying to be gracious.  But I do see the humor.

If breastasees don't muddle your thinking, there's something wrong with ya 

[Muzh]

dream on

Some dreams can be nightmares.

[Chelseaboy]

Nato secretary-general just announced Ukraine troops will be trained by Nato,and military equipment and assistance will be provided by Nato.

Nato will also be helping the government of Ukraine,and the intention is to make Ukraine part of Nato.

[jone]

I, personally, am well aware of what is happening in Donetsk right now.  I believe that the locals are going to sort through who is local and who is not. 

The biggest issue is whether Ukraine can shut its own borders from subversives bused over the border.  I have a question for you, JustMe.  Do you want Ukraine to be run by Ukrainians or Russians?

1.  You have blatantly ignored all stories coming out of Crimea that say that your own elected representatives were thrown out of their offices. 

2.  You have supported the idea of forcibly evicting your own husbands and fathers who are soldiers for Ukraine.  At gunpoint.  You say that anyone who doesn't surrender is a traitor.

3.  You have believed (even parroted) stories of a de facto Nazi movement, when it now is pretty well known that the kids parading in the uniforms were paid stooges of the Russians.

4.  And when Vladimir Vladimirovich comes on TV and lies to the world you say that he went up in your estimation.

I, personally, believe that in a free election, with no outside influences, Krim would vote to remain a part of Ukraine.  But that is just my opinion.  Frankly, there can be no free elections because of the influence of the Russian soldiers.   And I believe that even if the election decided that Krim was to remain a part of Ukraine, such would not be honored and the people would be told that they voted for independence.  Because now Russia has too much on the line.

Maybe it is time for you to wake up and smell the coffee.

[Chelseaboy]

Armed forces reservists here are starting to be called-up,that includes someone I personally know.

[Gylden]

IF the HW Bush engaged in Crimea it wouldn't have to be anywhere near to the black sea.
However, it is not very likely that there will be any engaement at all and I hope this refers to all.

People should stop making this a Russia against Ukraine issue and focus on the people against corruption issue, which is really what has led to all of this.

[jone]

Glynden,

No one can say that your mind doesn't stroke on all eight cylinders.  Unanimously the Rada stated the same when they evicted Yanukovych.

[jone]

Nato secretary-general just announced Ukraine troops will be trained by Nato,and military equipment and assistance will be provided by Nato.

Nato will also be helping the government of Ukraine,and the intention is to make Ukraine part of Nato.

That's a curious thing.  The NATO charter says that no member nation can house the military of another non-NATO country.  Thus, the only way that Ukraine could join NATO is if 1.)  It divested itself of Crimea or 2.)  Shut down the Russian naval base there.

I, frankly, don't believe that NATO will embrace Ukraine as much as people are led to believe.  Ultimately, Eastern Ukraine would be forced to be the jump off point for any NATO / Russia confrontations.  Were I living in Eastern Ukraine, I wouldn't want that to be the case.

Frankly, I see this as saber-rattling from the West.  And I am disdainful of it.

[jone]

ON THE OTHER HAND......


Hmm, if you were Russia right now.......

Ukraine joining NATO if we don't get our asses out of Crimea?  That is something to ponder. 

Nice move on the Chess Board,  Europe and US.

[Chelseaboy]

Pentagon just announced 6 more F-15's flying to the Baltic region,making 10 there in total.

[jone]

I read the notes from the NATO meeting.  There is NO offer of support or joint training with Ukraine and no (tacit) offer for membership in NATO.  I think that this was a mis-read, ChelseaBoy.

Propaganda put out by the West to scare people in the East.   

[Chelseaboy]

jone,

          I haven't read anything about it,but the NATO secretary-general clearly said on tv what I originally posted, at a news conference.

How long it would be until Ukraine would be accepted into  NATO wasn't mentioned by him.

[lordtiberius]

You would have to have held a saber to rattle it.

18 pipelines run east to west supplying Europe 1/3 of its oil supply from Russia.  All Ukraine needs to do is blow up those pipelines.  It wouldn't stop Putin's war machine but it would run janky.

[Muzh]

I, frankly, don't believe that NATO will embrace Ukraine as much as people are led to believe.  Ultimately, Eastern Ukraine would be forced to be the jump off point for any NATO / Russia confrontations.  Were I living in Eastern Ukraine, I wouldn't want that to be the case.

Frankly, I see this as saber-rattling from the West.  And I am disdainful of it.

Make that two of us.

[Muzh]

ON THE OTHER HAND......


Hmm, if you were Russia right now.......

Ukraine joining NATO if we don't get our asses out of Crimea?  That is something to ponder. 

Nice move on the Chess Board,  Europe and US.

The assumption here would be that we are dealing with a sane person.

[jone]

Membership in NATO was on the table in 2008 for Ukraine.  Then Yanukovych was elected in 2010 and stated that Ukraine would be a non-aligned state.   

Ukraine has always been a candidate to join NATO.

I think that trotting out such a proposal at this time would countermand everything that NATO is trying to do, i.e. strengthening its member nations like Poland.

I revert to my comments above.

[Gylden]

Here is a transcript from a statement made today (from Nato web page)


   
05 Mar. 2014
 
Remarks

by the NATO Secretary General, Anders Fogh Rasmussen at the Press Conference held following the meeting of the NATO-Russia Council at NATO HQ, Brussels
 

Good evening.

The situation in Ukraine presents serious implications for the security and stability of the Euro-Atlantic area.

And Russia continues to violate Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, and its own international commitments.

So NATO decided today to take a number of immediate steps.

We have suspended the planning for our first NATO-Russia joint mission. The maritime escort for the U.S. ship Cape Ray, which will neutralise Syria’s chemical weapons. Let me stress, this will not affect the destruction of chemical weapons, but Russia will not be involved in the escort of the US vessel.

We have also decided that no staff-level civilian or military meetings with Russia will take place for now.

We have put the entire range of NATO-Russia cooperation under review. NATO Foreign Ministers will take decisions on this in early April.

These steps send a clear message: Russia’s actions have consequences.

At the same time, we do want to keep the door open for political dialogue. So we are ready to maintain meetings of ambassadors in the NATO-Russia Council, as we have done today.

I have just chaired a frank and important meeting of the NATO-Russia Council to discuss the situation in Ukraine.

The NATO-Russia Council is a forum for discussions on all issues. Where we agree, and where we disagree.

As Chairman of the NATO-Russia Council, it is my duty to uphold the principles on which our relationship is founded.

Those fundamental principles are now at stake. Our joint pledge to observe in good faith our obligations under international law. And our commitment to refrain from the threat or use of force against each other, or any other state.

So I asked the Russian Ambassador to convey NATO’s firm message to Moscow.

At the same time we have decided to intensify our partnership with Ukraine, and strengthen our cooperation to support democratic reforms.

We will step up our engagement with the Ukrainian civilian and military leadership.

We will strengthen our efforts to build the capacity of the Ukrainian military, including with more joint training and exercises.

And we will do more to include Ukraine in our multinational projects to develop capabilities.

This will complement the international efforts to support the people of Ukraine as they shape their future. And tomorrow, I will meet the Prime Minister of Ukraine to make clear NATO’s support.

And with that, I am ready to take your questions.

[jone]

Nato secretary-general just announced Ukraine troops will be trained by Nato,and military equipment and assistance will be provided by Nato.

Nato will also be helping the government of Ukraine,and the intention is to make Ukraine part of Nato.

You and I read that statement much differently.

The idea of putting feet on the ground in Ukraine and providing equipment is not something I got out of it.

[justme100]

Sleepless Kharkiv. People come up to the Russian embassy