Women with Children - more strongly worded advice

[Jumper]

Perhaps the Jama thread in this post (Women with Children) should be spun off and joined with his "Done!" post?

The thread seems to have hijacked the original post and what more appropriate place to continue the discussion than in Jmana's "Done!"?

Actually, I do not see jmanas Done!  post.

[CanadaMan]

Actually, I do not see jmanas Done!  post.

Here it is:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=16864.0

[southernX]

jmana ??
 youve been very quiet,
how is it all going ??   i hope things have improved for you all ,

if your able to update this thread /info , im sure there are many like me keen to see how your going , & hoping it is all settling down better for you all
best wishes SX

[jmana]

jmana ??
 youve been very quiet,
how is it all going ??   i hope things have improved for you all ,

if your able to update this thread /info , im sure there are many like me keen to see how your going , & hoping it is all settling down better for you all
best wishes SX

Well, things have been okay.  We've definitely talked more.  Friday night she flat out asked me if I still wanted to marry her.  I told her I did.  She said that she knows everything has been a little difficult, especially with her daughter's behavior, and she accepted full blame for it.  She admitted to being lazy in that area and said she never really liked children.  I assume she had her daughter because her religion doesn't allow abortions?  But she said she is trying harder, and I do see it.  She doesn't let her get away with nearly as much as she used to, but it's not easy to set boundaries now when there was a lack of them before.  She said she is holding back on getting completely close to me physically until after marriage because she is afraid to repeat the mistake she made with Maria's dad, I told her I understood (which I do).  Right now the big obstacle that seems to be brewing is she would like to get a job.  But when I ask her what kind of job she wants, she says "something interesting like science or history".  Ummm yeah.  I told her that might be possible.....if she were to go back to school and basically start fresh because her education more than likely won't be accepted here as far as getting a job.  She said that's okay, but that opens another can of worms, namely how to pay for that education, and for her daughter's care while she is away from home.  I don't know what the process is for someone like her getting financial aid for schooling, but I would think she'd have to get loans, and I don't even know if she could get a regular college loan.  Plus for some reason she thought she could put Maria in preschool for free, I had to explain to her that it costs a minimum of $250 a week, up to $500 a week, and right now I can't pay for that.  I told her the best option was for her to babysit for a year or 2 until her daughter is old enough to go to school, and she could save that money and put it towards her education.  But that's when she dropped the bomb on me about not really liking kids, and how when she babysat back home it was torture.  So now I don't know what to do.  Any job she gets outside the house will require her to put Maria in some kind of care, which will cost more than likely as much, if not more than she would be earning, unless she works at night.  I'm not sure what to do.  I earn enough to pay the bills, and expenses, but not enough to do all that AND pay for her to go to school and/or her daughter to go to daycare. 

[Maxx2]

She admitted to being lazy in that area and said she never really liked children. 

That seems unnatural. I wonder what other unnatural inclinations she might have?

[Ade]

Well, things have been okay.  We've definitely talked more.  Friday night she flat out asked me if I still wanted to marry her.  I told her I did.  She said that she knows everything has been a little difficult, especially with her daughter's behavior, and she accepted full blame for it.  She admitted to being lazy in that area and said she never really liked children.  I assume she had her daughter because her religion doesn't allow abortions?  But she said she is trying harder, and I do see it.  She doesn't let her get away with nearly as much as she used to, but it's not easy to set boundaries now when there was a lack of them before.  She said she is holding back on getting completely close to me physically until after marriage because she is afraid to repeat the mistake she made with Maria's dad, I told her I understood (which I do).  Right now the big obstacle that seems to be brewing is she would like to get a job.  But when I ask her what kind of job she wants, she says "something interesting like science or history".  Ummm yeah.  I told her that might be possible.....if she were to go back to school and basically start fresh because her education more than likely won't be accepted here as far as getting a job.  She said that's okay, but that opens another can of worms, namely how to pay for that education, and for her daughter's care while she is away from home.  I don't know what the process is for someone like her getting financial aid for schooling, but I would think she'd have to get loans, and I don't even know if she could get a regular college loan.  Plus for some reason she thought she could put Maria in preschool for free, I had to explain to her that it costs a minimum of $250 a week, up to $500 a week, and right now I can't pay for that.  I told her the best option was for her to babysit for a year or 2 until her daughter is old enough to go to school, and she could save that money and put it towards her education.  But that's when she dropped the bomb on me about not really liking kids, and how when she babysat back home it was torture.  So now I don't know what to do.  Any job she gets outside the house will require her to put Maria in some kind of care, which will cost more than likely as much, if not more than she would be earning, unless she works at night.  I'm not sure what to do.  I earn enough to pay the bills, and expenses, but not enough to do all that AND pay for her to go to school and/or her daughter to go to daycare.

Jesus dude, did you ever, even once, think through what it takes to be in a relationship let alone an international relationship that includes a child?

As I said, some people should stay at home.

[Vinnvinny]

I assume she had her daughter because her religion doesn't allow abortions?

Maybe but my guess is that she had her daughter because she had unprotected sex around 40 weeks earlier.

[Hammer2722]

I gotta say for once, I agree with Ade..... You created this mess by being in such a hurry to find a wife.

[Slumba]

Can I ask, is there anything she is truly motivated to do, outside of Japanese boy-band stuff?  I mean, any activity or hobby, like walking, bowling, sewing, you name it.

If not, you have a really, really serious problem ahead.

[southernX]

jmana

while i agree with ade ,

there definitly was not enough discovery /time spent learning who alina is , your now responsible for both alina and her daughters welfare while there with you
id guess if you could turn the clock back you would never have proceeded ahead

im curiuos what was it about alina that made you go full tilt ahead with visa applications etc ?? why where you so sure about her ?

anyway your issues are here and now , and must be dealt with now !

couple of questions ,
what was alinas level of education in her home country ?
did she gain any qualification there ? high school , college ? university ?

how good is her english ?written and spoken ?

what online learning programs can you  & her  find for her that might be suitable for gaining recognition of any qualification she may have  ? maybe she can do open learning online from home . she seems to have good computer skills ?

while you may not be keen on it , but have either of you thought about how /if its possible for her to make any income form her online blog /boy band type of stuff ??

is there any similar type of computer graphics, etc  she can turn into a work from home partime income ?

this might offer you both some areas  to investigate , as she likes this type of stuff, best way to make an income is find something you like and are passionate about and develop it if possible ?

so you are both keen to continue with marriage ?

She admitted to being lazy in that area and said she never really liked children.  maxx 2  That seems unnatural. I wonder what other unnatural inclinations she might have?

nah its not that unusual really , it is more common than many blokes think , we all assume for some reason women are pre programmed to love kids automatically  , not all do
however she seems to be open to improving , same as you are i hope jmana ,

keep up the communication together , you just might surprise yourselves in what you can achieve when you co operate with understanding and stop the resentment building up
SX

[jmana]

id guess if you could turn the clock back you would never have proceeded ahead

Very true.

As for what first attracted me to her, it was that she seemed a lot more genuine than most of the other women that I wrote to and that wrote me back.  A lot of them were overly nice, and/or eager to be in a relationship.  Alina seemed more like a normal woman who wasn't really in a hurry, and didn't try to convince me of anything that wasn't true.  Unfortunately I should have seen a lot of signs that she was lazy when I was there, but I attributed it to her being a single mom and overwhelmed with everything.  Now I know that it's the same even when she doesn't really have to lift a finger.  Plus she lied to me about why she quit working in October.  She told me it was because her roommate's kid had to go to hospital for a long time and she wouldn't have anyone to watch her daughter because of it.  Well this weekend she admitted it was because she knew she wouldn't feel like getting up earlier than 10am in the winter .  Because of this I am being really cautious about the whole marriage thing, I think it will be last minute until I really know for sure if I want to spend the rest of my life with her.  I do like her a lot, and I know I could definitely do worse, but there is a lot of room for improvement.

And no, there's no way to capitalize on the Japanese stuff.  It is mostly a bunch of losers who are into that kind of stuff.  Now they will pay big $$$ for stupid DVD's and ridiculous toys to be shipped from Japan, but that's about it.

[ML]

I think not loving or at least liking children is a big red flag.

Doesn't mean you have to want to have children of your own, but not liking them is a hint of something bigger.

I am sure some of the more psychologically trained people here can clue in as to the reason.

I remember reading somewhere that a person (male or female) who does not like animals is also a red flag as far as getting romantically (or even friendly relationship) involved with them.  And, just from a few observations of such people, I tend to agree. 

Doesn't mean a person should have two dozen cats or some such, or even one animal; but to have a general dislike for animals is the key.

But I am not an expert in this area, so others may have more concrete info.

[Gator]

Jesus dude, did you ever, even once, think through what it takes to be in a relationship let alone an international relationship that includes a child?

jmana certainly knows more about "what it takes" than Alina.

As I said, some people should stay at home.

Yes, Alina should never have left Russia.

[Gator]

I think not loving or at least liking children is a big red flag.

Yes, particularly when she doesn't enjoy her own child.

[Gator]

Because of this I am being really cautious about the whole marriage thing, I think it will be last minute until I really know for sure if I want to spend the rest of my life with her.

Last minute?!   IMO life with her would be miserable.    Also, psychiatric therapy is expensive.

It is time to abandon ship. 

[jmana]

Last minute?!   IMO life with her would be miserable.    Also, psychiatric therapy is expensive.

It is time to abandon ship.

I'd be lying if I said the thought isn't on my mind.  I just wish I knew why she would hide all this stuff.  If she just wanted to come here and get married, you'd think she would keep hiding it until after she has a ring on her finger. 

[Gator]

I'd be lying if I said the thought isn't on my mind.  I just wish I knew why she would hide all this stuff.  If she just wanted to come here and get married, you'd think she would keep hiding it until after she has a ring on her finger.

You are rationalizing  - trying to think of some reason, however remote, to explain her abnormal behavior.  Even if you come up with a good explanation, why do you believe she would  change and become normal?  And if you have an answer for that, here's another question:  What compels you to believe she would be a good life partner for you. 

You seem like a decent man, a single father with sole custody of your son.  I wish Alina were the woman you envisioned when you decided to pursue a fiancée visa, someone to complete you family.  Because she falls short of that objective, you have my condolences.  Sorry man, broken dreams hurt. 

Your plate is already full  with your son.  IMO, Alina will be a burden.   You need someone who will not only help but also make life fun.   

[jmana]

You are rationalizing  - trying to think of some reason, however remote, to explain her abnormal behavior.  Even if you come up with a good explanation, why do you believe she would  change and become normal?  And if you have an answer for that, here's another question:  What compels you to believe she would be a good life partner for you. 

You seem like a decent man, a single father with sole custody of your son.  I wish Alina were the woman you envisioned when you decided to pursue a fiancée visa, someone to complete you family.  Because she falls short of that objective, you have my condolences.  Sorry man, broken dreams hurt. 

Your plate is already full  with your son.  IMO, Alina will be a burden.   You need someone who will not only help but also make life fun.

I don't know, I guess I just feel defeated in a big way.   All I wanted was someone nice to come home to, and she is "nice", but she's also quite lazy, boring for the most part, and frustrates me with her childishness.  But despite that, she treats my son better than any of the past relationships I've been in (they always treated him as "baggage"), and at least I know she would stay out of my way and not badger me like a lot of wives do (probably because she's too lazy to care).  And despite her daughter's terrible behavior, I do really love that little girl, I know it's not her fault she is the way she is.  She can be really sweet, and I feel so bad for her because I know if I were to send them home she would probably have no future, I think her mom would blame her for it not working out (when it reality it's Alina's lack of parenting skills and motivation that is causing the biggest rift).  At least here I think I could make a difference in her life.  I'd always wonder how bad her life was, and feel guilty for it.  I hate feeling like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.  So yeah, don't get involved with a woman with a kid, it really complicates things.

[Slumba]

I don't know, I guess I just feel defeated in a big way.   All I wanted was someone nice to come home to, and she is "nice", but she's also quite lazy, boring for the most part, and frustrates me with her childishness.  But despite that, she treats my son better than any of the past relationships I've been in (they always treated him as "baggage"), and at least I know she would stay out of my way and not badger me like a lot of wives do (probably because she's too lazy to care).  And despite her daughter's terrible behavior, I do really love that little girl, I know it's not her fault she is the way she is.  She can be really sweet, and I feel so bad for her because I know if I were to send them home she would probably have no future, I think her mom would blame her for it not working out (when it reality it's Alina's lack of parenting skills and motivation that is causing the biggest rift).  At least here I think I could make a difference in her life.  I'd always wonder how bad her life was, and feel guilty for it.  I hate feeling like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.  So yeah, don't get involved with a woman with a kid, it really complicates things.

You know what you need to do, but you are lacking in the will to do it. 

There is an old proverb, "those who are kind when they should be cruel, will end up having to be cruel when they should be kind". 

Act now, kick yourself in the head and end it ... pity and sympathy (which can all too easily lead to resentment and contempt) should have no place in deciding whether to marry someone - it is not like her life will be in danger if she goes back to her home.

[BillyB]

I don't know what the process is for someone like her getting financial aid for schooling, but I would think she'd have to get loans, and I don't even know if she could get a regular college loan. 

Go to your local community college and talk to a counselor about options. Financial aid(free tax payer money) probably isn't an option since you're responsible for Alina financially but loans may be an option. Since she's been living in your state for less than a year, tuition will be very expensive but after a year, it's more reasonable.


Is getting Alina educated a good investment for the money? I wouldn't send a lazy person to college unless I want to throw money away. Alina needs a desire and passion to learn if she wants to succeed in getting a degree but what you learned is she'll quit a job just because she has to wake up before 10 AM.


I'm surprised she just now told you the truth now about quitting her job because of laziness instead of waiting until after marriage. Why didn't she tell you the truth when she was back in Russia? Because she knows the truth, her laziness is not a desirable trait and you could've dumped her then when it's easier. It's late but not too late...yet.


It doesn't matter if most women don't like kids. Why should you don't have to marry one? Alina's daughter is getting neglected and she's growing up wild. Your son will even be more neglected if you get married to Alina. You need to find a family oriented woman who is at least responsible enough to wake up when a job demands it in order to feed her kids. I don't know if she'll ever consider you a husband but I do know you will be a solution to her problems.

[sleepycat]

  At least here I think I could make a difference in her life.   

Probably a better way (and a less stressful way) of making a difference in another child's life is just to sponsor an orphan child from Africa...

[fathertime]

Well, things have been okay.  We've definitely talked more.  Friday night she flat out asked me if I still wanted to marry her.  I told her I did.  She said that she knows everything has been a little difficult, especially with her daughter's behavior, and she accepted full blame for it.  She admitted to being lazy in that area and said she never really liked children.  I assume she had her daughter because her religion doesn't allow abortions?  But she said she is trying harder, and I do see it.  She doesn't let her get away with nearly as much as she used to, but it's not easy to set boundaries now when there was a lack of them before.  She said she is holding back on getting completely close to me physically until after marriage because she is afraid to repeat the mistake she made with Maria's dad, I told her I understood (which I do).  Right now the big obstacle that seems to be brewing is she would like to get a job.  But when I ask her what kind of job she wants, she says "something interesting like science or history".  Ummm yeah.  I told her that might be possible.....if she were to go back to school and basically start fresh because her education more than likely won't be accepted here as far as getting a job.  She said that's okay, but that opens another can of worms, namely how to pay for that education, and for her daughter's care while she is away from home.  I don't know what the process is for someone like her getting financial aid for schooling, but I would think she'd have to get loans, and I don't even know if she could get a regular college loan.  Plus for some reason she thought she could put Maria in preschool for free, I had to explain to her that it costs a minimum of $250 a week, up to $500 a week, and right now I can't pay for that.  I told her the best option was for her to babysit for a year or 2 until her daughter is old enough to go to school, and she could save that money and put it towards her education.  But that's when she dropped the bomb on me about not really liking kids, and how when she babysat back home it was torture.  So now I don't know what to do.  Any job she gets outside the house will require her to put Maria in some kind of care, which will cost more than likely as much, if not more than she would be earning, unless she works at night.  I'm not sure what to do.  I earn enough to pay the bills, and expenses, but not enough to do all that AND pay for her to go to school and/or her daughter to go to daycare.

i'm not reading a lot that would make me want to remain with this lady of yours....mostly just negatives...but hey guy it is your life...so good luck.


Fathertime!   

[jmana]

Go to your local community college and talk to a counselor about options. Financial aid(free tax payer money) probably isn't an option since you're responsible for Alina financially but loans may be an option. Since she's been living in your state for less than a year, tuition will be very expensive but after a year, it's more reasonable.

Oh I went through that with my ex wife when we moved to NC.  I had contacted the local community college to see what it would cost and they wanted to charge us out of state tuition, which was so much more expensive.  But here's the thing that REALLY got me angry to the point of writing the state politicians.  The ILLEGAL aliens got to go for the in state rate no matter how long they've been here because they couldn't verify how long they lived in the state.  What kind of BS is that?!  If it's still like that, maybe I should enroll her before the AOS and tell them she's an illegal, haha!

[dogspot]

Oh I went through that with my ex wife when we moved to NC.  I had contacted the local community college to see what it would cost and they wanted to charge us out of state tuition, which was so much more expensive.  But here's the thing that REALLY got me angry to the point of writing the state politicians.  The ILLEGAL aliens got to go for the in state rate no matter how long they've been here because they couldn't verify how long they lived in the state. 

That's strange. In my experience one always had to prove that they had lived in a state for a certain amount of time to qualify for in-state tuition. I have never heard of it being the other way around. I believe this is false.

[jmana]

That's strange. In my experience one always had to prove that they had lived in a state for a certain amount of time to qualify for in-state tuition. I have never heard of it being the other way around. I believe this is false.

Nope, in NC it was that way 8 years ago when we moved here, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's still that way.