Poll for the unmarried men

[Ste]

If it is too tough for you here, why don't you start your own forum. Might I suggest the title "RWW"? (Russian Women for Wimps) or maybe something could be made from "How to make 20 trips to the fsu, piss a mountain of money away and still be home alone."
KenC[/b]

I've often thought maybe this board should focus on those with stable relationships, ie not wide-eyed dreamers, love-lorn wimpy dreamers and folks asking questions like 'Do Russian women like Men who go to Church a lot?'.

The other boards feature the same questions being asked over and over again it's no wonder experienced posters get naffed off and send off a few thunderbolts.

I think it was jb who said we have a community here, not a Love Advice Board for Teenagers in Luurve....

Maybe we should ban newbies or make all new members do a 'drippyness' test before unleashing them Eastward...

Ste

[Ste]

Hey, how did I end up a mod?

I know I was supposed to do some chat room supervising but the alarm clock didnt go off and my mum didn't get me up in time.......

Right, $5 ea or ur banned...

I'm Russian Mafia now.

Stipashka

[Leslie]

LOL Steve!

You hit the nail straight on the head. RWD is NOT a board that is focused towards Newbies.  It never has been.  I have been here since the start.  This community was founded by a group of EXPERIENCED guys who could no longer stomach the "newbie friendly" moderation policy of RWG.  The then owner (Spencer Forrest) had a good reason for maintaining that policy.  RWG made money from dumb clueless Newbies....

This is a board for sensible grown up people.  The dysfunctional dorks can post someplace else. The lunatics will not take over the asylum!

This board is NOT for everyone.  Dan bans almost nobody (to his great credit) but the community here does reject people.  The community feels sorry for Doug.  This is why we are still talking about him even though he will never post here again.  There are others who have been driven away and good riddance 

Turbo Pseud -

Here is a piece of advice.  Let this matter drop.

The tar is hot and the sack of feathers is waiting....

[Ste]

In that case Leslie why dont we petition to remove the 'Starting Out' section or at least remove the newbieness of it.

Where in Scotland are you from leslie? I lived in Dumfries area for 10 bloody years thinking about it. Loved it. Doonhamer me!

Ste

[catzenmouse]

This is a board for sensible grown up people.  The dysfunctional dorks can post someplace else. The lunatics will not take over the asylum!

I thought we already had taken it over... Most of the rest of the world think we're all dysfunctional dorks for looking/finding/marrying an FSUW!

Good thing we know that we're the normal ones! It's the rest of the world that's F'd up!!!

[Turboguy]

KenC, I am not doing a very good job of getting my points across.  I apologize for that.  Let me make another attempt.

First, I do not think Photoguy followed the best course possible to persue an FSU woman.  I believe he should have made a follow up trip or trips.  I think in light of some of the situations that the proposal should possibly have waited until a successful follow up visit.   I think he may have done better had he found a woman who knew more english.   I think there may have been some red flags he should have paid more attention to.   I also believe he is an adult male of normal or better intelligence and he has to right to do what I think or what he thinks or whatever he wants and it is his decision and since he is the one who will live with the consequenses I am not going to hastle him should he follow his own course of actions.   It is his life.

I also believe that the guidelines that Dan mentioned as being not acceptable behaviour were abused terribly by some of the people in the forum at the time.  No one deserves the kind of insults and trash talk that was layed on PG by Anono and a number of the other posters here.  I think most people reading something like was said to him would think that the people saying those things had serious mental issues.  More importantlhy I think a newby reading those low classed insults would make the fastest bee line for the door possible.  

I don't think you can look at his second set of posts about his trip to determine his motivations and mental state, after he went through the original 30 pages of being told that his gal was worse than trailer trash and the thought of having sex with her would make them want to vomit,  and she is a worthless shop girl but you are a low classed worthless bus driver and you deserve each other and all the other garbage.

Frankly, I think this has all been talked about to death and I think we should let it die, and those who feel like really trashing someone in the future should try to think more about Dan's thoughts and what a real and normal person of reasonable inteligence and common sense would do.  

Leslie, oh, I am sure I will be a hit with the Russian gals with all that tar and feathers.  I have heard if you can stand out from a crown it really helps.   You make me laugh sometimes Leslie,  Sometimes I just wonder what your wife must go through.   Like photoguy, it was your wifes choice

[Turboguy]

LOL Steve!

You hit the nail straight on the head. RWD is NOT a board that is focused towards Newbies.  It never has been.  I have been here since the start.  This community was founded by a group of EXPERIENCED guys who could no longer stomach the "newbie friendly" moderation policy of RWG.  The then owner (Spencer Forrest) had a good reason for maintaining that policy.  RWG made money from dumb clueless Newbies....

This is a board for sensible grown up people.  The dysfunctional dorks can post someplace else. The lunatics will not take over the asylum!

This board is NOT for everyone.  Dan bans almost nobody (to his great credit) but the community here does reject people.  The community feels sorry for Doug.  This is why we are still talking about him even though he will never post here again.  There are others who have been driven away and good riddance 

Turbo Pseud -

Here is a piece of advice.  Let this matter drop.

The tar is hot and the sack of feathers is waiting....

Leslie, Perhaps you and jb and whichever of the experienced guys with weak stomachs founded this community can arrange a conference call together and set up the rules and regulations and list of acceptable members and put it in an organized format and send these rules to Dan so he can obay your orders.

Leslie,  You wish I would let it drop.  Almost every post, I say, lets let Doug rest in peace and move on to new things and someone starts boiling the tar for me.  I would love to let it drop.  It is as dead as the skunk in the road you ran over on the way home.

[ConnerVT]

I would love to let it drop.

It's easy then. Stop posting in this thread. You are one of the people whom throw the most fuel on the fires now.

Dan was correct in what he said earlier in this thread -- This is a topic that has been long needed. And as Ken, Leslie, jb, and others have pointed out, the purpose of this board started out to be a place where mature people with experiences in Russia and with RW could exchange ideas. It seems to have now expanded beyond that. Now, it seems to have become more like the forums that it was trying to differentiate itself from.

Word is needed from the management.  Dan, has your focus and intentions changed?  If so, please let the mature, experienced members here know.  We would like to re-evaluate our allocation of effort and time.

I am close to being one of those old, experienced married men.  Gee, what do I know?  Seven trips to Russia.  Married soon for two years.  Spent a year getting my fiance here.  Immigration troubles.  Dealings with Senators.  Working to build a multi languaged, multi cultural family.  Interesting to do with a 5 yo (soon to be 8 ).

Oh, the landscape has changed.  Yes, but I have friends and family still in the FSU.  I have my best friend marry a woman from Perm last year.  I deal with family issues in Russia, as well as own real estate there.  But I have little to offer, as I'm to out of touch, and have only one point of focus.

Get real.

What I no longer wish to do is help the people who know-it-all.  Every comment I ever made to PG was responded with a negative remark.  There are others here I could offer wisdom -- been there-done that -- but have been dealt a pile of feces from them enough times, I say, let 'em learn on their own.

After all, they know much more than ol' out of touch me...

[BC]

My thoughts exactly BC,  buy the time PG developed an attitude and ignored advice he had been though 20 or 30 pages of how ugly and low classed his girl is, what a second rate stupid person he was, how he did not have a chance at happiness and enough more that I won't waste my time going on. 

As far as the statement that the person who made the demeaning statments no longer posting here that is also not true.   Yes, Anono does not post here but he was just one and a minor player in it all.  I can remember details of very nasty posts by people still here.

To me, re-hashing the same old garbage over and over serves no purpose.  Changing history, like the USSR did about things does no good.   The second string of PG posts is out of context unless you can relate them to the horrible treatment he got in the original posts.   The originals are gone.

To me it is time for everyone to go to the blackboard and write ten times Dan's rules of acceptable behavior and to move on or find new material. 

Turbo,

Your statement above clearly underscores the intent and meaning of my post.

Re anono, yes he is gone, but even the fact that others still present - that in your view others remaining may have crossed the lines doesn't matter anymore.. we all, even I cross the lines from time to time.

The fact that PG is being discussed here is something you and only you brought about.  Much of what is being reaped here you alone have sown and harvested... The last remaining straws are there and you are looking for others to carry it for you.

Now pushing the rest of your harvest onto Dan's back is a bit unfair.. going to the extreme to defend your views.  Although Dan's guidelines help maintain a decent level of breathable atmosphere around here they do not undermine the basic principles expressed on this board as the RWD Ten Commandments or in similar form on other boards known as the Tablets of Stone.

Clearly Photo and even you attempt to undermine these long proven principles.  It's not even that you and Photo did decide to go against these long proven principles.. No punishment was applied and you both received plenty of good luck wishes once your chosen ladies arrived. What is so objectionable is that you insist on attempting to demonstrate omnipotentce and have powers to negate based on your less than desirable results.

If you can be humble enough to agree with me others may be more willing to let the matter rest or at least settle down a bit.

Whether you stick around afterwards or not does not depend on the overall membership, it depends on you and whether you are willing learn and grow as fast as the rest of the board members have.


 

[BillyB]

Hey, how did I end up a mod?

Ste, you were voted (involuntarily volunteered) moderator by the members in a recent thread because of your calm demeanor, your ability to dish out humor, your willingness to put yourself in the middle of a slugfest to break it up, and your ability to keep people on topic.

Congratulations! And keep up the good work.

[Admin]

Dan was correct in what he said earlier in this thread -- This is a topic that has been long needed. And as Ken, Leslie, jb, and others have pointed out, the purpose of this board started out to be a place where mature people with experiences in Russia and with RW could exchange ideas. It seems to have now expanded beyond that. Now, it seems to have become more like the forums that it was trying to differentiate itself from.

Word is needed from the management.  Dan, has your focus and intentions changed?  If so, please let the mature, experienced members here know.  We would like to re-evaluate our allocation of effort and time.

Conner (et al):

I am not sure what you are looking for from me. The only thing that has changed in the past year is that I migrated to new software to make my job easier and allow the members a greater opportunity to interact.

My "intentions" were, and are, and will remain - to create a forum (and now site) where people from all walks of life, with any level of experience, can gather to exchange, learn and contribute on the topic of relationships between western men and women from the FSU.

Because there were a few experienced members from other boards who joined me in the early days, we have always enjoyed a large proportion of the membership who were married to RW and who made significant contributions to the board. That, however, is different than my stating an objective for the board to cater principally to the more experienced set - it is simply how things formed in the initial stages of the board, and I have always been grateful to the experienced board members who graciously share their experiences and learnings with others.

I have made the point on many occasions in the past - that any community must have new entrants into the community, lest it eventually will wither and die. Further, it is expected that any community will experience some amount of constant turnover with members coming and going routinely. With the 'churn' of members, comes some amount of changing demographic and some amount of variability in MEMBER focus - which is the TRUE DRIVER of any board such as this.

If I were the sort of person to inject myself often, or to place onerous rules for members to follow - I suppose my intentions could be more of a driver of the direction of the board - but then I think we would lose the COMMUNITY element - which is important to me.

What I am saying Conner is, my focus and intentions are not the true driver behind changes you see on this board - if there are changes. What you are seeing is (IMO), the result of:

1) Change to a new environment which unsettles people for a time and they need to re-establish their 'comfort zones'
2) Growth in the membership and the possibility the numbers will affect the demographic, hence, the emphasis of the board members.
3) The change in our established members and the fact that sometimes people 'burn out' and become a little crusty - especially when faced with 'youngsters' who think they know everything - but do not.

- Dan

[Admin]

The issue which 'pains' me the most.

Running a board like this can be very frustrating at times - but the most painful experience, for me anyway, is when I see two people whom I care about and respect and value - come to loggerheads.

I have known KenC for years - have met him and his wife - have asked for his inputs and advice at times - and I know him to be genuinely concerned for the welfare of RWD and the members. I like him - a lot.

I have come to know Turboguy through this board - have watched him share some incredibly painful experiences for the benefit of the board - have admired his calm demeanor in the face of what I considered to be unfair and excessively harsh attacks - and have come to admire him.

It pains me to see a topic devolve the way this one has.

It is one thing to clear the air. It is entirely another to lose control in a feeding frenzy or to begin to openly talk about driving others away. That, IMO, is WAAYYY over the line.

I am tempted to close the topic - but I am not going to. Instead, I am going to leave it in the collective hands of the board to self-regulate and do what is best for the board. After all - it really IS your board.

I'll close with the perspective that I know some of the experienced members - and I know they are above this type of behavior.

The more moderate members of the board need to pipe up and let your feelings be known. If you agree with a position - state it. If you do not agree - state it.

Whatever you do - do it in a way that is not insulting and demonstrates your maturity and wisdom gained over the years.

- Dan

[Turboguy]

BC, In my first post on this page, I said I must not be doing a very good job of explaining myself because it seems like what i am writing and what you are reading are not the same thing.

I said in that same post, I thought photoguy did a lot of things wrong.  I said I thought it was a mistake not to make more trips.  That very likely he should have looked for a gal with more English.  I have no problems with the tablets of stone.   I have no problem with agreeing that you guys have some good collective knowlege and usually the advice you offer is well thought out and sound.

The thing I have always had a problem with was the things that were said by anono and some others  It stuck me like someone with the mentality of an 8 year old.  Although I did not like the things that were said,  most of the time, I had no real problem with the poster.  You have been helpful to me and given good advice.  I don't think badly of you at all.  I have to say the same for KenC.  I think jb is a good guy, maybe a little rough around the edges sometimes but I think he would even admit to that.  Actually I liked Anono and found it fun to try to get under his skin a bit.

I have said in almost every post in the past few pages, i think it is time to move on.  Maybe we can find sonar someplace and see what evil things he has been up to.

[catzenmouse]

3) The change in our established members and the fact that sometimes people 'burn out' and become a little crusty - especially when faced with 'youngsters' who think they know everything - but do not.

New Logo for the new board: RWBDBCOMM (Russian Women Being Discussed By Crusty Old Married Men)

Dan, I'll leave it up to you to work up the rules (What Rules?!? We Don't Need No Stinking Rules!) and to get a membership list together....

Ken

[Turboguy]

Good suggestion Ken, but then shouldn't we have a Crusty unmarried guys section to be fair.

[catzenmouse]

Good suggestion Ken, but then shouldn't we have a Crusty unmarried guys section to be fair.

Dagnabbit! Now you're just being difficult TG...

This will just get all out of control. We'll have to have Crusty Young Married Guys, Crusty Young Unmarried Guys, etc. then all the Un-Crusty types will be whining about their rights being abused... Ya just can't help starting trouble can ya... 

[BC]

New board ?? LOL that's waay too much work.

Maybe we should have a poll to decide the crustiest of us all and replace the profile stars and titles with crusties accordingly.

Grand Crusty Master
Master Crusty
Apprentice Crusty
Novice Crusty
Crumb

[Turboguy]

Dagnabbit! Now you're just being difficult TG...

This will just get all out of control. We'll have to have Crusty Young Married Guys, Crusty Young Unmarried Guys, etc. then all the Un-Crusty types will be whining about their rights being abused... Ya just can't help starting trouble can ya... 

Yep, you got me figured out Ken,  trouble maker and rabble rouser. 

BC,   Great thought, then we can have everyone fighting to be more crusty rather than trying to avoid that tag.

[jb]

I started this mess, therefore I must be to blame for the way it has turned out.

Let me just set a couple of things straight, and this is from an old married guy's perspective.  From the beginning, (I never dreamed this would be more than a passing 1 or 2 page thread), I intended to highlight the fact that many newbies arrive here with only the most basic understanding of Russians or Russia and ask realistic questions, others arrive here with preconcieved, agency driven "pie-in-the-sky" ideas, these are the ones who are living in a fantasy world and do not wish to be confused with facts contrary to their own wishful thinking, i.e., a la PhotoGuy and others of that ilk.  Some men are helpable, others seemingly, are not.

Secondly, I wanted to reinforce the notion that we have a set of guidelines called the "Ten Commandment" which evolved over time from the collective experience of the "old relatively successful married" guys.  Leslie was the one who put the original thoughts into verbage, but almost any of us could have churned out something similar simply because our collective experiences have all been so similar.  It pains me to read 9 experienced guys tell a newbie do not try to pluck a horse shoe from the forge with his bare hands; "That sucker is really hot, your apt to get badly burned", and then an inexperienced, not yet fully into the process, or totally unsuccessful guy say to him; "Gee, but you are such a great guy, all you lack is confidence, go for it". 

This is the difference between advice given by the optimist and the realist.  If the newbie really thinks that he will have a favorable outcome when he reaches for that horse shoe after so many people with experience warned him not to,,, well then, IMHO, he pretty much deserves to be laughed at and rediculed.

[catzenmouse]

New board ?? LOL that's waay too much work.

Maybe we should have a poll to decide the crustiest of us all and replace the profile stars and titles with crusties accordingly.

Grand Crusty Master
Master Crusty
Apprentice Crusty
Novice Crusty
Crumb

Oooh! I like it!!! A Crusty Meter next to everyone's name. Maybe we can get some really cool ones that explode when someone goes Crusty Ballistic!?!

[catzenmouse]

jb,

 There will always be the two extremes in advice giving. The trick for the listener is to pick out a tidbit or two of something that makes sense to them and will be put into practice. The same extremes come from the listeners. Some will take everything as gospel and end up in flames on the side of the mountain for flying too low. Others will discount everything that does not fit into the narrow perspective that they are holding onto and end up on the mountain next to the first one. We cannot change that nor should we become belligerant with them or try too much to get through to these folks on either end of the spectrum. When we lead a horse to water and he won't drink should we beat him for it? Yell at him? Throw rocks? Should we beat him a year later for this incident?

 Sometimes here at RWD I am reminded of when I was in Nova Scotia building wooden fishing boats for the scallopers. We had a kid come in and we sent him looking for the checkered paint. He spent most of the day going from one guy to another asking where this was with each person sending him further on the chase for the elusive checkered paint. At the end of the day we all had a good laugh about it. We didn't belittle him later for this and we didn't (nor did he) hold any grudges against his naievity about this joke. He was accepted and taught what he needed to know with good humor and scolded when he did something stupid. If we take the "higher way" (for lack of a better term) in advice here then no matter what the outcome from the newbie we will have held onto something that we value. Our integrity and values. Most people here have an abundance of both or they would not be here sharing the give and take of information and advice to help us better our way in the FSUW adventure.

FWIW,
 Ken

[Shadow]

I will go to the store and ask for chequered paint later today.
First I am going for the file with the lost papers.

[jb]

We had a kid come in and we sent him looking for the checkered paint.

That's funny, in the Navy it used to be common to send the new recruits to the Bosun's Locker to fetch 60 feet of water line.  The aviation side wanted a gallon of prop wash.   Operative word there is "kid".  The vast majority of the men who stumble through our doors are 40+ y.o. men, not young, dumb, totally inexperienced, kids.  In my world we treat men differently than we do kids.

[catzenmouse]

That's funny, in the Navy it used to be common to send the new recruits to the Bosun's Locker to fetch 60 feet of water line.  The aviation side wanted a gallon of prop wash.   Operative word there is "kid".  The vast majority of the men who stumble through our doors are 40+ y.o. men, not young, dumb, totally inexperienced, kids.  In my world we treat men differently than we do kids.

 The difference being as far as this type of relationship is concerned many of these 40+ers are a "kid" in knowledge and experience.

 Ken

P. S. When I was a meat cutter we would send them for the Yellow Handled Case Stretcher 'cause we needed to add two more feet to the display case. Warned them NOT to get the Red Handled one as it was broken.

[BC]

jb,

Surprisingly The RWD Commandments or Tablets or whatever you want to call them are indeed almost never mentioned around here, in fact I had to hunt the other day to even find them  - I first looked in the Starting Out section and finally found them in some obscure corner of Administrativa where few even wander.

I remember quite well on RWG where newbies were often referred to the Tablets, then asked to come back and chat.

I think a bit more emphasis on the basic principles might help take the edge off of clashing personalities.
Not often, but repeatedly we end up in discussions where all of us end up beating ourselves to exasperation when instead the few should be beating their heads against that stone Tablet.. maybe that's the 'needed direction' referred to way upthread.

If it boils down to this, then I think for all this thread you started was well worth the effort and learning experience.  I'm not saying it is a cure all, but even a cure some would be quite welcome.